DVC to add RCI as trade

[tidefan]

I don't think any of us know why DVC left RCI and moved to II years ago nor why the reverse now other than they thought it was the best move at the time. The question is best move for who, that we also don't truly know. Even if they give you a detailed explanation, you can't count on it being a complete evaluation of the reasoning for that you'd need details and contracts as well as detailed proposals from both II and RCI as you can bet II had their say. I have to think there will be more than meets the eye for DVC to make this change. Hopefully there will be other options that are in the DVC members favor that we don't know about yet. Certainly access to the points resorts 10 months out would be one such benefit that is possible. I think it's hard to argue with a straight face that RCI's top 500 resorts are equal to II's top 500 but that really isn't the real question. The real question is what can you really get out of those resorts. Plus if the resorts you want are there (or not there) that really is all that matters. Given the internal trading preference of Marriott and Westin, the top 10-12% of that 500 were not reasonably available for prime time with II but you did have a chance at those resorts during slightly lower times. Maybe RCI will give DVC resorts better trade power, we shall see.

Dean, I know that there have been rumblings, but do you think that there could be other defectors from II as well (i.e. if Marriott does their own internal trading system as has been rumored)?

 

[kikiV]

Maintenance of individual resorts is up to the resort management itself and is not related to RCI (or II)..

Yes, and if they don't bring their property up to standards, then RCI is suppose to DROP them! and they don't. RCI doesn't control scores, the members trading in and out do. When scores fall low enough, the affiliation is suppose to end.

When a good chunk of your inventory is Marriott, your chances of bad quality is less. When they are mom and pops, it increases. II chooses not to pick up Resorts in certain areas because they're not up to standards. They aren't looking for volume.

So then saying that RCI will offer members more choices because they are larger than II doesn't really matter if you will only be choosing from 500 right. And none of those 500 will be Marriott.

Everyone's experience with timeshare is different. Certainly there are people who do a lot and enjoy it with both RCI/II. What I am saying from 15 years on the inside and listenening to several thousand members stories and complaints, the problems are always with RCI.

 

[kikiV]

Dean, I know that there have been rumblings, but do you think that there could be other defectors from II as well (i.e. if Marriott does their own internal trading system as has been rumored)?

When Marriott weeks get deposited into II, they get "flagged" for Marriott owners first. Those members go thru the Marriott desk. After a sufficient amount of time has passed, II releases the remaining inventory to everyone else. I don't really see any advantage to Marriott going on their own because they basically have that leverage now. We have a lot of Marriott owners that trade into my resort and we aren't a Marriott. I don't know that internal trading would give members enough options.

 

[bwvBound]

Yes, and if they don't bring their property up to standards, then RCI is suppose to DROP them! and they don't. RCI doesn't control scores, the members trading in and out do. When scores fall low enough, the affiliation is suppose to end.

Well ... FWIW ... one of my RCI properties was dropped for a period due to feedback from exchange guests. The resort was having troubles with their reservation tracking resulting in over booking ... and you know that never makes for a happy guest on arrival! The resort tightened their system ... and resumed their RCI status after missing at least a full year. Being DROPPED does happen.

 

[tjkraz]

What I am saying from 15 years on the inside and listenening to several thousand members stories and complaints, the problems are always with RCI.

So after fifteen years your scorecard is:

RCI = Thousands of complaints
II = Zero complaints



Admittedly I'm a newbie to the trading world and I certainly cannot see myself EVER trading out using my DVC points (have investigated buying other TS' for trading purposes on several occasions.) So I'm following both sides of the discussion with interest. But I'm finding it difficult to give much credibility to folks who speak in such absolutes.

 

[spiceycat]

no II definitely gets their complaints.

generally from a person with a nice resort trading to a lessor one and thinking the experience would be the same.

so definitely do your research on tug and the other timeshare websites. You definitely want to know what you are getting.

of course that is one of my problems with rci - the really great places don't always have the best resorts.

so then do you want the place - or a really nice resort - with rci you generally don't get both.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

Spiceycat mentioned that II has a lot of options in the South. I had frankly never seen very much in the South that interested me on the DVC-II list. There was 1 at Orange Beach, AL, 1 at Panama City, a few at Gatlinburg, and maybe 1 in New Orleans. It looks RCI has more.

I also visited RCI's website to find resorts and then looked on trip advisor. I was really concerned that a lot of the resorts I looked at either had bad reviews or rented for very low prices. One property in Gulf Shores was <$100/night. Hotels in G.S. are NEVER $100/nt. Plus, if that is true, why would I ever trade DVC for it?

I wonder...will the point exchanges be less through RCI? If I get greater selection, for 80 points instead of 160 -- then I will be pretty happy. What are the details??

I'm concerned about rci, but am holding out for more information.

 

[rsackett]

Non DVC member hear.

I am a II member who has traded into DVC a few times.

Do you think there will be more DVC members looking to do direct trades? Just wondering.

Ray

 

[Dean]

Dean, I know that there have been rumblings, but do you think that there could be other defectors from II as well (i.e. if Marriott does their own internal trading system as has been rumored)?

I'm sure there will be those stragglers that move in and out as there has always been. Marriott still needs an exchange company whether they take over their own internal exchanges or not. Unless Marriott starts a formal timeshare points program, I don't see them really doing much on their own. And if they do, that means members will almost certainly lose their internal trading preference with II. II has also been rumored as moving toward a points system which does make sense to a degree.

Yes, and if they don't bring their property up to standards, then RCI is suppose to DROP them! and they don't. RCI doesn't control scores, the members trading in and out do. When scores fall low enough, the affiliation is suppose to end.

In my experience RCI is far more forgiving of resort shenanigans than is II, not that either are that great at supporting the individual members. Case in point is the situations with the Mayan Palace and Grand Mayan Resorts (plus others in the group) where it's not uncommon to trade into a better resort and be placed in the lessor resort simply because they want to. Some have even been told they're getting the lessor resort because they represent a lower sales opportunity than others. Some have had a similar experience getting a smaller unit when they had exchanged to a larger one for the same purpose. Control of unit assignments is one thing but an entirely different resort that is lower in quality or a smaller unit is another. It's much like internet electronic sites that will sell you a camera for a really cheap price if you buy the overpriced accessories and they'll cancel your order if you don't buy the other stuff.

Admittedly I'm a newbie to the trading world and I certainly cannot see myself EVER trading out using my DVC points (have investigated buying other TS' for trading purposes on several occasions.) So I'm following both sides of the discussion with interest. But I'm finding it difficult to give much credibility to folks who speak in such absolutes.

You should go to TUG and gather info from a much larger group of people with a lot more knowledge and experience overall. While you'll get varied opinions, I think you'll be convinced that RCI is a lot worse that it once was and that the overwhelming opinion is that II is better but by no means perfect. Don't forget there are other players. RCI points is an almost separate system and there are many independent exchange options out there.

 

[Dean]

Spiceycat mentioned that II has a lot of options in the South. I had frankly never seen very much in the South that interested me on the DVC-II list. There was 1 at Orange Beach, AL, 1 at Panama City, a few at Gatlinburg, and maybe 1 in New Orleans. It looks RCI has more.

I also visited RCI's website to find resorts and then looked on trip advisor. I was really concerned that a lot of the resorts I looked at either had bad reviews or rented for very low prices. One property in Gulf Shores was <$100/night. Hotels in G.S. are NEVER $100/nt. Plus, if that is true, why would I ever trade DVC for it?

I wonder...will the point exchanges be less through RCI? If I get greater selection, for 80 points instead of 160 -- then I will be pretty happy. What are the details??

I'm concerned about rci, but am holding out for more information.

Obviously none of us can say about the details of the new system. Comparing RCI's offerings to the DVC II list is not a fair comparison. RCI has 20 resorts in the FL Panhandle only about half of which I'd stay at under any circumstances and none would I trade DVC even for an exchange, maybe a studio to a 2 BR at best. II has 11 resorts (some are the same resorts) with about 5 or 6 I'd consider staying at and again none I'd trade DVC for even or under the current II exchange plan. As for trading DVC for lessor, cheaper options, that really is a point I've made on DIS for years. Bottom line is there are good timeshares to own for personal use and good ones for exchanging with little overlap between the 2. The exceptions are often the cheaper points systems like Wyndham, RCI points and Bluegreen.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

Obviously none of us can say about the details of the new system. Comparing RCI's offerings to the DVC II list is not a fair comparison. RCI has 20 resorts in the FL Panhandle only about half of which I'd stay at under any circumstances and none would I trade DVC even for an exchange, maybe a studio to a 2 BR at best. II has 11 resorts (some are the same resorts) with about 5 or 6 I'd consider staying at and again none I'd trade DVC for even or under the current II exchange plan. As for trading DVC for lessor, cheaper options, that really is a point I've made on DIS for years. Bottom line is there are good timeshares to own for personal use and good ones for exchanging with little overlap between the 2. The exceptions are often the cheaper points systems like Wyndham, RCI points and Bluegreen.

Thanks Dean.

Your advice is spot on as usual.

 

[kikiV]

So after fifteen years your scorecard is:

RCI = Thousands of complaints
II = Zero complaints



Admittedly I'm a newbie to the trading world and I certainly cannot see myself EVER trading out using my DVC points (have investigated buying other TS' for trading purposes on several occasions.) So I'm following both sides of the discussion with interest. But I'm finding it difficult to give much credibility to folks who speak in such absolutes.

No, what it says is that after listening to thousands of member stories/complaints, the problem is always with RCI. There are members every now again who are ok with RCI or are not ok with II. To sum up 15 years, what stands out in everyone's mind (all Management) is that RCI is not as good of a trading company as II is.

 

[kikiV]

Well ... FWIW ... one of my RCI properties was dropped for a period due to feedback from exchange guests. The resort was having troubles with their reservation tracking resulting in over booking ... and you know that never makes for a happy guest on arrival! The resort tightened their system ... and resumed their RCI status after missing at least a full year. Being DROPPED does happen.

Being dropped for overbooking is quite different than being dropped for quality. Overbooking is taken VERY seriously in the RCI/II contracts. Quality dropping is at the mercy of RCI. If they need your property in their profile, they might allow anything.

 

[IM140.6]

I have been an RCI Member for over 20-years and own at an OK ski resort in Winter Park, Colorado (Timber Run). I for one think the offerings from RCI (with the exception of a few like Hilton) are of very low quality.

I joined DVC (owner at the Beach Club) for its Quality and the name behind the operation. As a Disney stock holder I hold Disney in High Regard but this was a bad move on their part and ranks right up there with closing of the Adventurers Club.

I would never in a Million Years trade my Disney points for the crap RCI has so in the end it does not effect me directly - except IMHO the association with RCI cheepens the Disney name. Most of their Resorts including their so called Gold Crown are very very disappointing.

My wife and I are a Hilton Owner at Kings Land on the Big Island (a crown jewel in the Hilton collection) - since I compete in the Ironman Triathlon World Championships each year we wanted a high quality place to stay so we choose to own there. We visit Disney about 3-times each year and it made sence to us to become DVC Owners.

I give my 3-weeks per year I own with RCI (all Red time with 2-spring ski weeks back to back over Easter and Labor Day weekend in the Summer which is great for Mountain Biking) to Family as gifts and tend not to never use it for myself. II 's resorts are of higher Quality.

To DVC Mgt who I know reads these forums - BIG MISTAKE - HUGE

 

[Brancaneve]

I have a question out there for RCI owners. Are the resorts outside of the US better than II's resorts? It seems as if the US RCI resorts are of poor quality but they seem to have a lot of resorts in Mexico. Any thoughts on that?

 

[tomandrobin]

I have a question out there for RCI owners. Are the resorts outside of the US better than II's resorts? It seems as if the US RCI resorts are of poor quality but they seem to have a lot of resorts in Mexico. Any thoughts on that?

For the most part, II has the better Resorts. The resorts in Europe are so-so in both systems, but the Caribbean is dominated by the II resorts.

 

[Dean]

I have a question out there for RCI owners. Are the resorts outside of the US better than II's resorts? It seems as if the US RCI resorts are of poor quality but they seem to have a lot of resorts in Mexico. Any thoughts on that?

You almost have to look by area or location overall for Europe I'd say it's about 50/50.. Also, some resorts are affiliated with both but when that happens usually one or the other get the bulk of deposits and you need to know which one to judge your chances of success.

 

[jamstew]

I have a question out there for RCI owners. Are the resorts outside of the US better than II's resorts? It seems as if the US RCI resorts are of poor quality but they seem to have a lot of resorts in Mexico. Any thoughts on that?

The two places I've stayed in Cozumel were extremely nice, but that was quite a few years ago.

 

[Dean]

The two places I've stayed in Cozumel were extremely nice, but that was quite a few years ago.

RCI has 14 resorts on Cozumel. Of those 14, 9 are mandatory all inclusive and 2 are optional all inclusive. Of the 3 that are not AI, two are standard rated resorts. The prices for AI for Cozumel through RCI tends to be dramatically high. Two of the 14 resorts are RCI points system resorts.

 

[jamstew]

RCI has 14 resorts on Cozumel. Of those 14, 9 are mandatory all inclusive and 2 are optional all inclusive. Of the 3 that are not AI, two are standard rated resorts. The prices for AI for Cozumel through RCI tends to be dramatically high. Two of the 14 resorts are RCI points system resorts.

Wow -- I just looked at the map, and they don't have much any more! We stayed at a place on Punta Norte in 1995. I think it was the Melia Paradisus, which was beautiful. It was optional AI, which we weren't interested in, and it ended up being a pain since you couldn't even buy a drink. We had planned to eat in town anyway (cheaper and better food back then). We stayed at Plaza Las Glorias in 1997, which was an easy walk to the plaza. They were overbooked, and we got upgraded to a penthouse with a wraparound balcony & hot tub, so we were happy campers. This was before the cruise ships were coming en masse, and the few that did had to anchor offshore and tender people in, so it wasn't a big deal. I personally wouldn't go back. I like a little more laid back atmosphere.