Down Syndrome child, corporal punishment & school.. need input.. long

[brockash]

I do get very angry when there is NO form of discipline at home. I am not by any means saying you have to spank but I would rather see that than no discipline at all. I get angry when I am condemned as a parent because I do spank children from time to time.

As an educator my sincerest wish is for all the children at this school and every school to live up to their potential in a place they can feel like is a second home. It does NOT make me happy to have to discipline in any way. Like I said in a previous post I absolutely HATE even having to write a discipline form and send a child to the office.[/QUOTE]

Well I would too, if my school believed they had a right to spank the children I send there

 

[brockash]

Well the DS child's parent had to sign the letter right? Obviously they are okay with spanking as punishment. Not that I agree. I would never sign a letter giving someone else the right to hit my child, DS or not!

Well from what OP wrote, it seems the parent would have had to sign an "opt-out" letter, and that apparently this type of barbarick behavoir is looked at as the "norm." Who knows if the parent's even knew about it or that they would have to "opt-out."

 

[brockash]

Corporal punishment in schools remains legal in 21 U.S. states and is used frequently in 13: Missouri, Kentucky, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee and Florida, according to data received from the Office for Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of Education and cited in the report.
n addition, special education students with mental or physical disabilities were more likely to receive corporal punishment, according to the ACLU and Human Rights Watch.


wow, such cultural differences in the South as opposed to up here in the North,

No kidding. I wouldn't have even thought to ask about something like that.

 

[ozarkmom]

You are entitled to your own opinion as am I but yes those were my real thoughts. Again like I have already stated it is only used as a very last resort, with a parents permission and if it will cause a child to sit up and pay attention, behave and focus on their studies then yes I am actually all for it! I do not understand the outrage? Do you not realize that lots and lots of parents still actually spank thier children? Whats's the difference. My school is, however, very discreet about it and the child would have to have had done something really bad and have been in the office like every day for a month for it to happen. I know some of those children wouldnt need that kind of intervention if their parents had taken the time to do it at home. I do not believe in beating your child but believe very strongly in spanking! Again this is only done with the parent's consent.

You realize that people that don't believe in spanking (which is their right) do not see any difference between "beating" and spanking so your thoughts make no sense to them. I get what your saying and I know even though our schools can spank it happens very rarely.

 

[brockash]

I don't see why people are so bent aganist corporal punishment?? My whole generation got spankings when I was in school when they needed it and no was worse for it. It usually only takes once to get a swat at school and you learn quick to act right.

I'm assuming you meant to say and "no one was worse for it" to which I would reply I highly doubt that. I would read some statics about what hitting a person by an authority figure does to a child. I'm sure most are able to go about their daily lives normally, but it does do something to a person, and especially the way they look at the world and themselves.

 

[jamimb]

Wow, what a blanket generalization. My children are always among the best behaved in their classrooms and are the ones who are NOT spanked.

You are rightI am sorry and I am by no means saying that children who are not spanked do not behave well.

 

[kellyg403]

I certainly hope by this statement you didn't mean that you wouldn't interfere if a parent was beating their child. That would be very sad and selfish if it was; however I like to give ppl. the benefit of the doubt, and so I'm hoping you meant if a parent chooses to "spank" their child, and not beat.
Hitting someone solves absolutely nothing long term; it's just an easy way out for the short term. All it does is install fear in the child of the person hitting them, which basically just teaches them that bullying works, and whoever can hit or is the biggest is the boss. That's disgusting.

I would not hesitate at all to intervene in the case of abuse. AT all. If you read my previous posts, that anyone is spanking a children with disabilities is just plain wrong. Spanking a child is not my option as a parent. It absolutely not my RIGHT to tell another parent how to raise their child. Do I agree no, but unless I am willing to change the system and go the mile I have to right to tell someone what they are supposed to do. Would I call dss if there was abuse, intervene who do what is needed to ensure a child's safety. I understand the statistics, I understand why people don't. But, I also know that I was spanked and my whole generation was and I don't see where it is ABSOLUTELY wrong when done correctly for the correct reasons. I do think there is a difference, period. A swat on the rear is way different that taking a stick, a bat or any other object including a belt and 'beating' a child.

Just my opinion, we can all agree to disagree. I know that what has worked for my children is not spanking, we have not explored that avenue. For those who are at the end of their rope, I do not know that they aren't right.
Kelly

 

[brockash]

The point is not to punish - it is to redirect and reinforce positively. Find something that has meaning to that child and have him EARN it. Believe me, it works 100% of the time. It's not a quick fix, but it is something that will work with consistency and hard work.

ITA. While I do use time outs, take things away ect. at home; ITA that this is something that should be what is done in school. This is also the policy at the school my children attend, and I applaud them and you for not taking the easy way out, and actually taking the time to redirect them.

 

[okeydokey]

You are rightI am sorry and I am by no means saying that children who are not spanked do not behave well.

I appreciate that, and I also appreciate the very hard job that teacher's have when dealing with an undisciplined child.

 

[jamimb]

Really, so you're telling me that all children that are spanked are better behaved than all children that are not? That's a very ignorant statement. Spanking is an easy way out, and accomplishes nothing long term; except fear of you (way to go- you're bigger than a child ) I've seen many children who don't have any discipline, and they are brats; I've also seen many children who are spanked- also brats, except when they're in fear of the person that spanks them, and they're present. Parents/teachers ect. need to take the time to follow through on actual making a difference discipline, not just take the easy way out by doing nothing or spanking.

You are grossly mistaken if you think spanking is the "Easy way" !!!!! Schools do not spank for a first, second or even fifth offense. It is only done when all other methods of discipline have been exhausted. I only personally do it when all other methods have not worked! (my own children only)

Let me just add that I did not mean in anyway to offnd anyone! Some people think its okay to spank and others do not and there will be no changing anyone's mind here. Schools give parents an option to consent to have their children spanked or not so if a parent says it's okay it's really no one else's business.

 

[brockash]

Thank God not everyone feels this way.

If anyone EVER thought of spanking my children, their internal organs would be ripped out of their body.
I cannot believe that this is still allowed.

I agree. While I understand that the PP had a horrible experience that effected their child; I think this is a lot of what is wrong with our world. Ppl. don't want to get involved because they don't want to have to deal with how it will effect them. In my line of work, I see every day how sad it is that ppl. don't stand up for what is right, and it's very very sad. We need to help eachother, and our children and stand up for what is right. I make it a point to show and teach my children that. Yes, it's extreme, but I think worth it, and in this situation if it came to it, I would have switched school districts for my child if we had to, or even home schooled, as long as I was able to try to make a difference for the world (although a very small part) at the same time.

 

[brockash]

You are grossly mistaken if you think spanking is the "Easy way" !!!!! Schools do not spank for a first, second or even fifth offense. It is only done when all other methods of discipline have been exhausted. I only personally do it when all other methods have not worked! (my own children only)

You mean your school, and you will never convince me that spanking a child is not the easy way out. It teaches nothing long term.

 

[mickaholic4077]

Can't read the whole post now. Sunscribing so I can read the rest later.

 

[legalsea]

Can't read the whole post now. Sunscribing so I can read the rest later.

This thread has it all! It will amply repay your Friday night reading:

1. Posters accusing other posters of making gross generalities often followed up by a gross generality of their own.
2. Stereotyping of every kind.
3. “Assumptions” everywhere concerning what another poster meant (“I assume you meant…).
4. Deliberately quoting posters out of context.
5. Outright distortions of another posters opinion.
6. Citing another posters post, yet only copying part of the post, not all, so as to give a different impression of what the poster actually meant to convey.
7. Generalized threats of physical violence.
8. Making up statistics.
9. General disdain for any opinion that conflicts with yours.

No doubt several have slipped my observance (this thread grew fast), and no doubt more observations can be found as the thread grows.

 

[java]

Have you even read any of my posts??? . I will say this again for the last time, it is used here as a LAST RESORT when the child has not responded to other multiple forms of discipline.

Yes I read all your posts.
Think about it this way though- if you are going through all different kinds of discipline then how well behaved? Pick one that works. I am a time out user for the little guys and the older 2 things get taken away. Again I only had to take something away once and that behaviour never occured again. If you use the other forms of discipline effectively you won't need to get to the spanking. just my opinion.
And normally I am a to each their own kind of parent but spanking is one that really hurts me. I was a child that had a hair pulling mom. It hurt my self esteem and I THANK GOD for the day that a woman in a store said something to my Mom. She never did it again.
When my daughter heard a story my Mom was telling about hair pulling she asked why? My mom replied well what does your mom do to get your attention? She replied "she talks to me"
that's the kind of relationship I prefer to have.

 

[brockash]

Yes I read all your posts.
Think about it this way though- if you are going through all different kinds of discipline then how well behaved? Pick one that works. I am a time out user for the little guys and the older 2 things get taken away. Again I only had to take something away once and that behaviour never occured again. If you use the other forms of discipline effectively you won't need to get to the spanking. just my opinion.
And normally I am a to each their own kind of parent but spanking is one that really hurts me. I was a child that had a hair pulling mom. It hurt my self esteem and I THANK GOD for the day that a woman in a store said something to my Mom. She never did it again.
When my daughter heard a story my Mom was telling about hair pulling she asked why? My mom replied well what does your mom do to get your attention? She replied "she talks to me"
that's the kind of relationship I prefer to have.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[JodyLynC]

This thread has it all! It will amply repay your Friday night reading:

1. Posters accusing other posters of making gross generalities often followed up by a gross generality of their own.
2. Stereotyping of every kind.
3. “Assumptions” everywhere concerning what another poster meant (“I assume you meant…).
4. Deliberately quoting posters out of context.
5. Outright distortions of another posters opinion.
6. Citing another posters post, yet only copying part of the post, not all, so as to give a different impression of what the poster actually meant to convey.
7. Generalized threats of physical violence.
8. Making up statistics.
9. General disdain for any opinion that conflicts with yours.

No doubt several have slipped my observance (this thread grew fast), and no doubt more observations can be found as the thread grows.

 

[CPT Tripss]

You apparently do not work around children all day long. Trust me you can tell the differnece between a child who is spanked at home and one who is not! The spnaked children behave better! You know what "disgusts" me. A child who is not disciplined at all!!!! That is outrageous!!!!! Trust me In most cases the children whom the principal has to spank see NO form of discipline at home spanking or otherwise!!!

That is a total crock of unadulterated BS.
Kids can be learn to behave appropriately without resorting to hitting. discipline does not require much in the way of negative or punishment, let alone striking the child, if good solid positives are used. Takes more time to catch your kid doing something right and letting him/her know that than it takes to whack 'em . . . but it's a boatload more effective.

 

[kellyg403]

Well from what OP wrote, it seems the parent would have had to sign an "opt-out" letter, and that apparently this type of barbarick behavoir is looked at as the "norm." Who knows if the parent's even knew about it or that they would have to "opt-out."

I am sorry but if the parent does not know that they have to opt out then it is on them. Every year we get a stack of papers on the first day of school to read and sign. In that packet along with free/reduced lunch, teacher requirements and the handbook is a form. At the bottom of the form are two sentences. 1) I understand the policy regarding Corporal Punishment in the NC School system 2) I wish to opt out of the coporal punishment policy and not allow my child to be disciplined with corporal punishment. Those obviously are not the exact words, but you get the point. If you are blindly signing everything your child brings home, not reading the handbook with your child or not ever turning in the paperwork, how can you NOT know? If your child does not turn in the paperwork, we are sent home a letter with a new form, such as the form to use my child's picture, to be sent and NOTHING can be done until that time.

Sorry, saying that a parent does not know what their school's policies are just is too much of a stretch. My children came from a school system that did not have corporal punishment. When we were transferred from the military and signed up school, the first thing you do is read the paperwork and go over things with your child.

Kelly

 

[RainbowBrite]

You apparently do not work around children all day long. Trust me you can tell the differnece between a child who is spanked at home and one who is not! The spnaked children behave better! You know what "disgusts" me. A child who is not disciplined at all!!!!!

This is ridiculous. I'm a nanny and I have been one for 7 years. I care for two 2 1/2 year old boys and you know what? I discpline them, and they're very well behaved. And no, I do not spank them. I'm simply strict and they know their limits when they are with me. Spanking teaches them nothing except that is it okay to act out with their hands when they get angry. How are we supposed to teach them not to hit others if we are hitting them ourselves?