Do you allow your teens to sample alcohol

[goofy!]

Is everyone in Europe an alcoholic? There drinking is not the taboo it is here in the US. Wine is served with dinner and whoever wants some gets some.

I don't serve my kids liquor in my home, but I think it's a reach to say it leads to alcoholism.

My parents are European, all my cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc all live in Europe.

Thus I spent a lot of time in Europe too. Light alcohol consumption by teens is not as frowned upon as it is in the states. Funny how the teen binge rate is much lower in Europe than in the US.

So, yes, I had alcohol growing up and my teens were allowed it if they wanted to try it. Although we don't drink a whole lot, we do have a significant liquor collection built up over the years which is never locked up.

Because our kids know they are allowed, they never felt the need to sneak into our stash. And in fact, since they knew they could have it if they wanted to, they decided it was not a big deal and waited until 21 to have their first drink. DS was always the designated driver among his friends.

DS (21) got a mini fridge for Christmas from his girlfriend. While he is home on break, it is being stored in his brother's room (15), fully stocked with beer. Younger son has no desire to drink the beer - it is just not a big deal. And believe me, older son would know if a beer was missing.

I fully believe that teaching responsible drinking doesn't start all of a sudden at 21.

No, I would never allow somebody else's child to drink in our household without the parents express permission.

 

[MrsPete]

Really? Because I drank in my parents' home since the age I could sit at a table with my own place setting and I was never drunk, nor was anyone there. Not at dinner parties, not at holiday parties. Wine and spirits were there and available - no such thing as a locked liquor cabinet in my house - and yet no one, not my parents, friends or the kids, ever got anything close to drunk. Imagine.

Also, your links... I stayed away from the ones with urls like 'teendrinkingisevil' but one says -



Which is sortof counter to your argument. All the others seem to quote one study that I can't actually see w/o paying $5.

Likewise, stay away from urls like buzz.com or lowerdrinkingage.com.

If you'll read the whole articles, you'll see the whole argument -- not just the one portion that you quoted. I've read more on this subject than you'd believe, and I know I didn't pay $5 to read any article.

Is everyone in Europe an alcoholic? There drinking is not the taboo it is here in the US. Wine is served with dinner and whoever wants some gets some.

I don't serve my kids liquor in my home, but I think it's a reach to say it leads to alcoholism.

If you'll check those links, you'll see that the idea that all European kids are drinking wine with their dinner is something of a stretch -- and they have about the same alcoholism rate that we do. The urban myths about drinking are quite pervasive. I urge you to read some actual research, something beyond the internet.

That drinking from a young age makes one more prone to alcoholism has been proven over and over again for decades. Again, read something real. Not just internet message boards.

 

[zurgswife]

My oldest is 20 almost 21; then I have a 19 and 18 year old and 14. At dinner when my oldest if home I will offer her a wine (my usual drink). Over Christmas I served a specialty beer that all tried. The 20 and 18 yr old like it and the other two didn't at all.

I have the feelings like quite a few here. Showing that it is not taboo and being an example that you can drink and not to excess is a positive thing to do with young adults.

My 18 yr old is a diabetic on insulin and I have been very clear with him that if he doesn't learn to drink properly it could be deadly. For many years we've had discussions and now that he is headed to college next year we are letting him sample drinks at home and talk about what he needs to think about when he drinks. This in hopes that he continue to learns that drinking like a normal teen could be deadly to him.

 

[MrsPete]

You're talking about alcoholism which is a whole different thing. I think what parents are talking about when the say they're taking away the forbidden fruit aspect is more along the lines of binge drinking, or just drinking for the sake of drinking.
With alcoholics it's a whole different thing - some people are more prone to addiction than others. Studies have shown that's more of a run in the family type thing. In my family, out of the 4 grand parents, one was an alcoholic. Out of my parents, one drank casually, one didn't drink at all (the child of the alcoholic). Out of the 4 biological children of my parents, one doesn't drink at all, 2 are casual drinkers, and one is a recovering alcoholic. We were all raised exactly the same way though. Out of our kids, the 2 casual drinkers (myself and one sister) we have no problems with our teens having the occasional glass of wine. The recovering alcoholic doesn't allow it. For her, alcohol is something to be afraid of.
That being said, Im sure you will hear of people who drank as teens and became alcoholics just like you will hear of people who drank as teens who drink responsibly. I think the drinking as teens has nothing to do with it. Either you got the gene or you don't.

Thing is, you couldn't have lined up my cousins when we were kids and said, "This one will become an alcoholic, but this one won't." You couldn't have known which ones could've handled a little drink and which ones would've progressed to binge drinking. As such, it's sensible to use caution with alcohol and kids.

I also do not agree that it's simply you have the gene or you don't. Everything I've read has convinced me that each of us has a tendency towards or away from alcoholism -- it's not a yes or a no thing.

Here's an analogy: Say you've inherited a talent for music. If your parents realize this and provide you with opportunities for music lessons, buy you instruments and sheet music, and take you to concerts . . . you're likely to develop that talent. Another person with the same potential, who receives none of the enrichment described, would never really use his ability. That, of course, is a positive example, but alcoholism is similar: If you have a tendency towards it, but you work to avoid it, you won't develop the full-fledged problems.

I think this is silly. Sorry, but I do
You might was well say that if we ever let the kids drive on very slowly on a private road on our property we were teaching them to have a wreck (not that we have such a road or do, but I know people with ranches and farms whose younger teens drive trucks on their property either for working on the property or simply so they will no how in an emergency since they live so far from other help, etc.

Learning to drive is a skill that kids need to master. They know the mechanics of putting drink into their mouths. What they really need to learn is moderation -- and hopefully that's what you've been modeling for your kids all their lives. Not complete avoidance /threats that this is the devil; nor full-fledged drinking binges or drinking and driving. You teach your kids moderation in drinking when you hand your keys over to your wife after you have a couple beers at a restaurant. You teach your kids moderation when they see you have one glass of wine and then stop. They internalize these messages from a very young age.

 

[cornflake]

Likewise, stay away from urls like buzz.com or lowerdrinkingage.com.

If you'll read the whole articles, you'll see the whole argument -- not just the one portion that you quoted. I've read more on this subject than you'd believe, and I know I didn't pay $5 to read any article. If you'll check those links, you'll see that the idea that all European kids are drinking wine with their dinner is something of a stretch -- and they have about the same alcoholism rate that we do. The urban myths about drinking are quite pervasive. I urge you to read some actual research, something beyond the internet.

That drinking from a young age makes one more prone to alcoholism has been proven over and over again for decades. Again, read something real. Not just internet message boards.

Do you see me posting silly URLs? No, you do not.

I said I can't see the study without ponying up $5. Every single article except the one I quoted, I believe, is based off that one study, which I can't access. Hence I don't know what it actually says.

 

[goofy!]

If you'll check those links, you'll see that the idea that all European kids are drinking wine with their dinner is something of a stretch -- and they have about the same alcoholism rate that we do.
.

Well, since I have spent a significant time having dinner with Europeans, I know that wine with meals is very common, so don't believe everything you read.

And the statistics do show that they have less teen binge drinking than the US.

 

[Principessa1284]

Am I the only one who had wine at church growing up? Granted, it was only a "shot" of wine during communion, but is that some sort of loophole to the drinking age? Religious reasons? My parents often offered to let me try a sip of their beer or wine here or there, but let me tell you, after that church wine, I never took them up on it. I still despise the taste of alcohol, and there's only a handful of wines and cocktails that I'll drink. I don't think I'd drink beer unless my life depended on it.. that stuff is NASTY!

My brother, on the other hand, became quite the active drinker and party guy once he graduated from high school (which my parents still don't know about). So.. there's your nature vs. nurture - we both grew up in an identical environment, but came to polar opposite conclusions about alcohol.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Likewise, stay away from urls like buzz.com or lowerdrinkingage.com.

If you'll read the whole articles, you'll see the whole argument -- not just the one portion that you quoted. I've read more on this subject than you'd believe, and I know I didn't pay $5 to read any article. If you'll check those links, you'll see that the idea that all European kids are drinking wine with their dinner is something of a stretch -- and they have about the same alcoholism rate that we do. The urban myths about drinking are quite pervasive. I urge you to read some actual research, something beyond the internet.

That drinking from a young age makes one more prone to alcoholism has been proven over and over again for decades. Again, read something real. Not just internet message boards.

I haven't dones tons of research. I have lived in both cultures though (well in the US, and in Germany--I cannot say that all of Europe or even all of Germany has the same culture).

I worked with teens in the US, and I also knew many socially from doing community theatre. About once a month we were hosting a big cast party of some sort which, in addition to plenty of assorted adults generally had 30 or so teens at it.
Getting to know the teens that I did in the US, I found that about 10% could drink at home with parents. I also know from talking to them and their parents and teachers that the nights spent at our house were the rare times they did not get drunk on the weekend (no way would I take on the liability of other people's kids drinking if they are not legal in my home). They nearly all had been drunk enough to be sick multiple times and about half had passed out at least once.

Here, in the German school my kids attend and among their German friends, about half of the underage kids drink a glass or so of something with their parents at home. Both kids have been offered wine numerous times when having dinner at a friend's house. I DO see quite a bit of "happy tipsiness and even drunkenness at Fests and out and about on Saturday nights--not at all limited to the teens. I rarely see someone who is out of control, or sick from drinking too much or has passed out (never saw that) and I kid you not that of the 7 times in three years I recall seeing out of control, 5 were Americans (speaking English with American accents) and one was a Brit.

So, in my (admittidly limited to one person's) actual experience, the kids here do drink more growing up, and the teens here do drink much more responsibly. I do not know how across the board it is, but that is what I see in my own life and that of my teens.

 

[Acklander]

That drinking from a young age makes one more prone to alcoholism has been proven over and over again for decades. Again, read something real. Not just internet message boards.

Meh, I think that's a chicken egg thing. Does drinking from a young age make one more prone to alcoholism; or do those who are prone to alcoholism seek out alcohol at a younger age???

I think if you're an alcoholic, it doesn't matter when you have your first drink, but the fact that you do have a first drink. It is what it is. But the one thing many alcoholics have a hard time seeing, is that there are people out there that are able to have just one drink and then walk away, without thinking about it, or another drink even crossing their mind. Personally, I've gone many months without having a drink, just because I never thought about grabbing one.

 

[cornflake]

Am I the only one who had wine at church growing up? Granted, it was only a "shot" of wine during communion, but is that some sort of loophole to the drinking age? Religious reasons? My parents often offered to let me try a sip of their beer or wine here or there, but let me tell you, after that church wine, I never took them up on it. I still despise the taste of alcohol, and there's only a handful of wines and cocktails that I'll drink. I don't think I'd drink beer unless my life depended on it.. that stuff is NASTY!

My brother, on the other hand, became quite the active drinker and party guy once he graduated from high school (which my parents still don't know about). So.. there's your nature vs. nurture - we both grew up in an identical environment, but came to polar opposite conclusions about alcohol.

Yep. Many states have something like 'during religious service or observance or whatever' written in as an exemption, because many religions do give all participants wine at certain parts of certain services or events, like during communion or at seder.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Learning to drive is a skill that kids need to master. They know the mechanics of putting drink into their mouths. What they really need to learn is moderation -- and hopefully that's what you've been modeling for your kids all their lives. Not complete avoidance /threats that this is the devil; nor full-fledged drinking binges or drinking and driving. You teach your kids moderation in drinking when you hand your keys over to your wife after you have a couple beers at a restaurant. You teach your kids moderation when they see you have one glass of wine and then stop. They internalize these messages from a very young age.

Sure they have mastered holding a beverage to their lips. But they need to learn what it feels like when they are starting to have too much so they can stop, They need to learn how much is too much for them with a meal and on an empty stomach.

I can drink about half a glass of wine on an empty stomach or one glass on a full one and feel normal, more than that and I feel tipsy. I don't like tipsy. I avoid it. It took me a while to learn how slowly to sip a cocktail or how much wine to drink so that it didn't hit me all of a sudden 10 minute too late. I know because I have practice and I learned that, just like I learned to shift when I learned to drive

 

[JessicaR]

I wanted to post before reading the rest of the thread. I will go back and do that.

When I was a baby my grandmother dipped my pacifier in wine. Growing up at Sunday dinners we had a small glass of wine with our meal if we wanted it. There were 9 cousins at Sunday dinners, most of us didn't want the wine.

I grew up with my parents asking - do you want to taste that? I never raided the liquor cabinet and did not binge when my friends around me did as teens.

I raised my children the same way. I have soon to be 15 and 19 year old boys. Neither drink or care for the taste - yet.

We have red wine at dinner and sambucca in our espresso - my now 3 year old nephew does as well when at my parents house. 4 generations - history repeats itself again.

 

[ZephyrHawk]

Forget learning "good drinking habits", how was I supposed to be able to learn the important social niceties of pairing wines with food and the like if I wasn't exposed to it at my parents dinner table? I don't have kids yet, but when I do, a small amount of wine at the dinner table will be part of their education just as correct plcement of the dinner knife will be part of their table setting duties. I don't want them to turn out like my DH, who had to have me explain proper sommelier etiquette at our first fancy dinner out.

Sorry, I guess I'm a born and bred wine snob.

 

[cornflake]

Sure they have mastered holding a beverage to their lips. But they need to learn what it feels like when they are starting to have too much so they can stop, They need to learn how much is too much for them with a meal and on an empty stomach.

I can drink about half a glass of wine on an empty stomach or one glass on a full one and feel normal, more than that and I feel tipsy. I don't like tipsy. I avoid it. It took me a while to learn how slowly to sip a cocktail or how much wine to drink so that it didn't hit me all of a sudden 10 minute too late. I know because I have practice and I learned that, just like I learned to shift when I learned to drive

This. The first time I felt tipsy I was out to dinner with a family friend and the wine was served in big glasses, heh. It wasn't when I was randomly carousing around in college and got blindsided all of a sudden, it was like, oh, whoa, huh. That's how you learn your limits and what it feels like and what warning signals there are.

Also, I think it teaches that it's no big dang deal. Most all of my friends had the same type of upbringing, and it was just no big deal. If we were hanging out in h.s. at one person's house whose parents were into wine, they'd give us a decent bottle or two (again, there was NO issue with driving, that's an entirely different thing). If someone didn't feel like a drink or didn't like wine, then they just didn't have any. No one cared. No one felt peer pressure to drink because it wasn't some big marker of adulthood or bravery to do a taboo thing, it was a beverage, no different from saying 'nah, I'm not in the mood for juice, could I just have water please?'

Which carried over into adulthood. It's hard to be shamed or bullied into drinking if drinking is totally normal to you - there's no 'dare' to it, there's no 'what're you, a baby?!' to it if you've been drinking it since you were, in fact, a baby.

 

[JessicaR]

Is everyone in Europe an alcoholic? There drinking is not the taboo it is here in the US. Wine is served with dinner and whoever wants some gets some.

I don't serve my kids liquor in my home, but I think it's a reach to say it leads to alcoholism.

I agree. I also believe hereditary genes from an alcoholic leads to alcoholism first.

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

I am shocked and amazed at how many ppl allow their kids to drink alcohol under the skewed assumption that by GIVING THEM BOOZE you are teaching them to drink RESPONSIBLY. No you aren't. You are teaching them TO DRINK.

And one PP said they even let a 12 yr old drink! Really? That to me is disgusting and should be illegal if it's not.

I never let my kid smoke pot so that he would smoke responsibly, nor did I ever let him drink. I am referring to my oldest, the 26 yr old. He had one parent he saw drink and one parent (me) he never saw drink. He never asked us to taste booze and there's no way in hell I would have given ANY KID, mine or otherwise, wine or booze.

Sometimes I think ppl should have to be licensed to have kids.

I think ppl want to make themselves feel less like a piece of crap parent for giving a young kid booze so they make up these cute little sayings about teaching them to drink responsibly. That's just total BS. Teach them how to smoke cigarettes responsibly. It's legal, like booze. It's harmful, like booze. And don't say it's not harmful. If you drink enough it will KILL YOU. So yes, it is harmful. If you do it and drive you will go to jail. It's harmful.

I am assuming these parents are also the same type of ppl who advise pregnant women to drink because "its' good for you and the baby" "My doctor said so"

There is no reason to assume that your kids are going to grow up to be drinkers. They may grow up and go to college and never start drinking. But you giving them booze is making it OK, a part of every day life.

I disagree with every day alcohol consumption. To have a glass of Champagne on NYE or toast a glass at a wedding is one thing, but if you sit down and drink beer or wine EVERY DAY, you have a drinking problem. And you are going to lead your kids into the same kind of lifestyle. Especially if they have seen you drink every day of their lives.

I don't know ONE SINGLE PERSON in all my life that has ever thought it was OK to give young teens booze. It's just shocking.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I'm of the 'drink from childhood' school, heh. That's how I was raised, that's how I think it works best. If adults have wine at dinner, kids can too, just a wee glass. As they get older, they can have more in the glass. Teens can drink fulll glasses, or a cocktail, . In my experience, when it's forbidden is when people go nuts. If it's just always been there and part of life, no big deal...

...So, in my (admittidly limited to one person's) actual experience, the kids here do drink more growing up, and the teens here do drink much more responsibly. I do not know how across the board it is, but that is what I see in my own life and that of my teens.

I definitely agree with the "forbidden fruit" theory. I grew up with parents who owned a pub. They saw all kind of drinkers and determined that the worst were the ones who had never experienced drinking a little in moderation.

They let my brother and I taste what they were having, and increased the amount we were allowed as we got older. - And I was the one holding everyone else's hair out of the way in college.

I think it's the kids who never touch a drop until they're in a situation where no one is looking out for them and they're trying to impress people who get into trouble.

 

[goofy!]

I agree. I also believe hereditary genes from an alcoholic leads to alcoholism first.

And actually, it is the tendency to addiction that the gene manifests, not just alcoholism.

There are many forms of addiction; alcoholism, drug, internet, hoarding, shopping, etc.

The thing is that there is always some other factor too that triggers it, such as trying to avoid certain feelings.

Addiction is an illness and has many components, not just a teen having a glass of wine at dinner.

 

[Pixiedust34]

Starting at age 12, they were offered a glass of wine at holiday meals and special dinners.

 

[NHdisneylover]

This. The first time I felt tipsy I was out to dinner with a family friend and the wine was served in big glasses, heh. It wasn't when I was randomly carousing around in college and got blindsided all of a sudden, it was like, oh, whoa, huh. That's how you learn your limits and what it feels like and what warning signals there are.

Also, I think it teaches that it's no big dang deal. Most all of my friends had the same type of upbringing, and it was just no big deal. If we were hanging out in h.s. at one person's house whose parents were into wine, they'd give us a decent bottle or two (again, there was NO issue with driving, that's an entirely different thing). If someone didn't feel like a drink or didn't like wine, then they just didn't have any. No one cared. No one felt peer pressure to drink because it wasn't some big marker of adulthood or bravery to do a taboo thing, it was a beverage, no different from saying 'nah, I'm not in the mood for juice, could I just have water please?'

Which carried over into adulthood. It's hard to be shamed or bullied into drinking if drinking is totally normal to you - there's no 'dare' to it, there's no 'what're you, a baby?!' to it if you've been drinking it since you were, in fact, a baby.

AN excellent point with which I totally agree

I am shocked and amazed at how many ppl allow their kids to drink alcohol under the skewed assumption that by GIVING THEM BOOZE you are teaching them to drink RESPONSIBLY. No you aren't. You are teaching them TO DRINK.

And one PP said they even let a 12 yr old drink! Really? That to me is disgusting and should be illegal if it's not.

I never let my kid smoke pot so that he would smoke responsibly, nor did I ever let him drink. I am referring to my oldest, the 26 yr old. He had one parent he saw drink and one parent (me) he never saw drink. He never asked us to taste booze and there's no way in hell I would have given ANY KID, mine or otherwise, wine or booze.

Sometimes I think ppl should have to be licensed to have kids.

I think ppl want to make themselves feel less like a piece of crap parent for giving a young kid booze so they make up these cute little sayings about teaching them to drink responsibly. That's just total BS. Teach them how to smoke cigarettes responsibly. It's legal, like booze. It's harmful, like booze. And don't say it's not harmful. If you drink enough it will KILL YOU. So yes, it is harmful. If you do it and drive you will go to jail. It's harmful.

I am assuming these parents are also the same type of ppl who advise pregnant women to drink because "its' good for you and the baby" "My doctor said so"

There is no reason to assume that your kids are going to grow up to be drinkers. They may grow up and go to college and never start drinking. But you giving them booze is making it OK, a part of every day life.

I disagree with every day alcohol consumption. To have a glass of Champagne on NYE or toast a glass at a wedding is one thing, but if you sit down and drink beer or wine EVERY DAY, you have a drinking problem. And you are going to lead your kids into the same kind of lifestyle. Especially if they have seen you drink every day of their lives.

I don't know ONE SINGLE PERSON in all my life that has ever thought it was OK to give young teens booze. It's just shocking.

In the past few days I have learned from the DIS that I am cheap, low class and kind of slutty, and now I can add in that I have a drinking problem because I have a half to a full glass on wine with dinner most evenings and that I am a "piece of crap parent"