DDP & DVC rules - still not liking it

[Dean]

It is a situation that aggravates me and this is a BB with lots of opinions and debate. This is a forum for DVC members. I am a DVC Member - any person that I discuss this with not on the Disboards easily understands and gets the absurdity of paying for fake guests/night.

This is an optional program. It is set up to make Disney money. Would you be OK if they removed the requirement of every person for the LOS but increased the price 50% and policed it so there was no sharing? This is an optional program. IMO it only makes sense for a relative few. Disney has a history of taking fair to good programs and squeezing them until they make sense for no one. They essentially use the boiled frog approach knowing some will continue to purchase long after a given program makes sense for them. I remember he program that replaced the food & fun card (forget it's name). It was essentially a prepaid debit card with a 10% bonus but you couldn't combine it with other discounts like the 20% DDE. So most using it were paying more automatically.

What I feel very strongly about is the need for other posters to attack anything remotely questioning a Disney policy. I'd like to campaign for DVC to end the Gold Pass rates. It's absurd for Disney to have to subsidize the very wealthy DVC members. If they don't like it, they should sell their membership. Why would anyone expect any discount for DVC?

Anyone on a DVC points reservation should have to pay for a park ticket for every guest for every day. Does that sound reasonable?

I can't speak for others, only myself. Disagreeing with someone and saying so is not attacking them. One of my life philosophies is that someone else's gain is not necessarily my loss. This is starting to sound entitlement based.

 

[alldiz]

After all of these years and countless time lurking I have yet to see a real reason for the all-in rule for DDP & DVC. Especially DVC! One of the benefits of DVC is the villa style with more than 1 bedroom.

I am betting that, like us, many members have guests come and stay with them. I have stayed for 10 -14 days in a 2BR (once in a GV) with multiple guests coming in and out. Nothing weird or outside of the rules. My children have stayed for part of the reservation, other family and friends have flown in/out for other parts. MY DH often has to travel for partial time due to work. We've not pushed the guest:room limits ever.

It is absurd for Disney to insist all people have the DDP for all days. If I am there 14 days, why would anyone in their right mind buy the DDP X 13 nights for a guest staying a long weekend and another DDP x 13 nights for a different guest staying 5 nights? And, no, I do not want to change rooms every time.

Did we ever get a reasonable explanation for this rule? Is it a technology issue (I believe this is the impetus behind the FP in one park/day rule despite the upcharge for hopping privileges)? Is it to discourage DDP for DVC users? Blatant play for $$? Why, why, why?

Another complaint just because I am here - having to make ADRs before FP+s sucks. I used to plan park days by opening/closing, parades/shows, arrival(s), departure(s) and then make ADRs based on where we would be now I have to *try* to get ADRs as far our as possible without knowing if the FP+s will be available or the park times. It's sdrawkcab!

Ok crazy idea. Won't work if your guests use ME to resort or want to put tickets on room card. Or don't trust for room charges.
I guess technically....you could just buy the dining plan for say the 8 initial guests. If they are just changing in and out (guests). I don't see why you can't just use those dining credits for whoever your guests are now. It just shows credits it dosen't matter who uses them.
I think.....
Kerri

 

[Lynne M]

I think it helps to understand Disney promotions, like the dining plan, if you look at them this way. This also goes for free dining, the refillable mugs, and just about any other "deal" they offer. You could even apply it to a purchase of a DVC membership.

Disney's purpose in creating the dining plan is not to save the guests money. It wasn't created to make the guests planning easier, or more convenient. Yes, the convenience is a draw for many people, and that's fine from their perspective because it helps encourage purchase of the plan. But it's incidental. There was one single motivation: to get the guests to pay up front for their food. Because it's guaranteed money in Disney's pocket, whether you use those credits you pay for or not. In fact, they'd much rather people have leftover credits at the end of the trip.

There's just not any business case for them to do what you ask. It would cost them serious money for them to implement the change to their systems, which would cut into their profits from the dining plan. And it would cause guests to spend less money buying the plan, which they REALLY don't want.

Disney's promotions are designed to help them, not you. Many of them CAN end up helping some guests, if they choose and use them wisely. That's the best way to look at them - is this good for my family? Will it save me money? If not, you just pass on the promotion. In your situation, the dining plan just isn't a good fit because of the guests coming and going; it'd end up costing you more money than paying out of pocket. So, you go with the option that works out better for you financially: paying out of pocket.

 

[MrInfinity]

It is a situation that aggravates me and this is a BB with lots of opinions and debate. Any person that I discuss this with not on the Disboards easily understands and gets the absurdity of paying for fake guests/night.

I'm still not seeing that the DDP forces you to pay for fake guests/night -- or why you would even have fake guests on your res since you said you are correctly indicating who will be there. If your guests are correct, then when choosing the DDP you will pay for exactly the # of guests that will be there.

 

[dcfromva]

Did we ever get a reasonable explanation for this rule? Is it a technology issue (I believe this is the impetus behind the FP in one park/day rule despite the upcharge for hopping privileges)? Is it to discourage DDP for DVC users? Blatant play for $$? Why, why, why?

I think technology issue is your answer:

A few years back, DVC changed the dining plan rules a bit and allowed you to split your continuous stay into separate parts and pay for the dining plan for only part of your stay. We tried it with 7 people in a 2 bedroom at Kidani Village and paid for the regular disney dining plan part of the week and the quick service plan the other part. This was before magic bands, when you only used the plastic key cards.

It was the most stressful trip we have ever had. We had over 70 different key cards for 4 days. The cards never worked to open our doors, and only 1 person out of 7 could use the dining plan. The rest of us had cards with no dining plan entitlements on them. I spent at least an hour each day at the front desk, trying to sort out the issues. We all had to stay together the whole trip so that the one person with the card with the dining plan on it could pay for our meals and snacks.

In the end, they could not fix the problems. It was strictly a disney IT problem - the system just was not set up to have a dining plan for only part of a stay. The program was done away with right after our stay

Unless Disney seriously upgrades their IT capability, I would never want to risk a partial dining plan booking ever again It just was not worth it.

I remember when this was going on and there were lots of posts like this. I really wanted to try this, but I decided to wait until they got the problems ironed out. (I don't think they did, so they discontinued the program-problem solved..)

 

[Deb & Bill]

The problem with shorter reservations and having the dining plan for the specific reservations you want is that there isn't a guarantee that you could remain in the same room. I remember DVC saying that if you chose to have the dining plan "your way" (deluxe for two nights, regular for seven nights, quick service for two nights) you would have to move to a different resort or different sized lodging for each change. Totally separate reservations and no linking them.

But even if you have different people on the dining plan for a few nights, you can still use the remaining credits as you want to. You can use credits to pay for guests not on the plan (that is a change last year to the plan). And if you have nights with only two or three of you instead of six, seven or eight, you book two credit dining for those nights if you need to use up credits.

 

[lovin'fl]

You bring up good points... two things I wish DVC would change:
1- can customize dining plan to each guest
2- make FP+ and ADR bookings just 2 or 4 weeks out. Not sure why the need for 6 months and 2 months unless this is just to give early bookers (cash bookers, not DVC) a leg up.

 

[BillPA]

Why 180 days, because they have your money longer at many location you pay when you book. Just how many $$$ do you think they have in their pockets interest free? Thousands maybe 10s of thousands or more.
I think it was a great perk, for those that find value in it, just to allow DVC to get the dining plan without having to pay rack rates and buy a ticket package.

 

[supersnoop]

You bring up good points... two things I wish DVC would change:
1- can customize dining plan to each guest
2- make FP+ and ADR bookings just 2 or 4 weeks out. Not sure why the need for 6 months and 2 months unless this is just to give early bookers (cash bookers, not DVC) a leg up.

How does a six-month window give cash reservations a leg up? Shouldn't the majority of DVC reservations be made no later that 7 months in advance?

 

[lovin'fl]

How does a six-month window give cash reservations a leg up? Shouldn't the majority of DVC reservations be made no later that 7 months in advance?

No, I meant the cash folks that book, say, 8 months out versus the cash folks that book, say, 6 weeks out.

 

[Chuck S]

After all of these years and countless time lurking I have yet to see a real reason for the all-in rule for DDP & DVC. Especially DVC! One of the benefits of DVC is the villa style with more than 1 bedroom.

Going back to the roots of DVC (OKW) it really seems to have been designed for in-room cooking, not a lot of dining out, except in studios.

I am betting that, like us, many members have guests come and stay with them. I have stayed for 10 -14 days in a 2BR (once in a GV) with multiple guests coming in and out. Nothing weird or outside of the rules. My children have stayed for part of the reservation, other family and friends have flown in/out for other parts. MY DH often has to travel for partial time due to work. We've not pushed the guest:room limits ever.

I've had guests on many trips, often reserving multiple rooms...but have never changed guests during a stay...some may have left early, or arrived a day after we checked in...but they were always on the reservation from the start, never swapped out guests during a stay. And when I've had that situation of late arrivals or early departures I've never gotten a Dining Plan. We used the Tables in Wonderland discount, and now I just use the AP or DVC discount.

It is absurd for Disney to insist all people have the DDP for all days. If I am there 14 days, why would anyone in their right mind buy the DDP X 13 nights for a guest staying a long weekend and another DDP x 13 nights for a different guest staying 5 nights? And, no, I do not want to change rooms every time.

Did we ever get a reasonable explanation for this rule? Is it a technology issue (I believe this is the impetus behind the FP in one park/day rule despite the upcharge for hopping privileges)? Is it to discourage DDP for DVC users? Blatant play for $$? Why, why, why?

I disagree. While it may seem odd, nothing even gives DVC the right to a DDP, it is extended by courtesy, since it was designed for the cash resorts. So I have no problem with it following the same guidelines. The actual reason maybe a combination of all your suggestions, it may be a technology issue, it may be designed (at least for the cash resorts) to be a money making vehicle. As I said, it wasn't designed for DVC, and Disney simply may not want to bother with the changes necessary to tailor it to DVC travel habits.

Another complaint just because I am here - having to make ADRs before FP+s sucks. I used to plan park days by opening/closing, parades/shows, arrival(s), departure(s) and then make ADRs based on where we would be now I have to *try* to get ADRs as far our as possible without knowing if the FP+s will be available or the park times.

A minor annoyance, though, in the long run. I just pick a park, though hopefully not an EMH park, and make my ADRs, then tailor my FP+ around them when they become available. And this last trip, it accidently worked out where all my ADRs were in the EMH parks, but it was still OK.

 

[disneynutz]

You bring up good points... two things I wish DVC would change:
1- can customize dining plan to each guest
2- make FP+ and ADR bookings just 2 or 4 weeks out. Not sure why the need for 6 months and 2 months unless this is just to give early bookers (cash bookers, not DVC) a leg up.

DVC has zero power to change Disney's policies, DVC is lucky that Disney let's them participate.

Bill

 

[lovin'fl]

DVC has zero power to change Disney's policies, DVC is lucky that Disney let's them participate.

Bill

Ah, yes, true. I should modify it to say 'I wish Disney would change'

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

I'm still not seeing that the DDP forces you to pay for fake guests/night -- or why you would even have fake guests on your res since you said you are correctly indicating who will be there. If your guests are correct, then when choosing the DDP you will pay for exactly the # of guests that will be there.

Like this:
2 BR 14 days
DH & I arrive
DD arrives 2 days later and stays for 4 nights.
Guest 1 & Guest 2 arrive on days 6 (they see each other in the airport)
DH goes back to work on day 10

Disney would charge
Me DDP x 13
AND EVERYONE ELSE pays DDP X 13 nights

DH is there for 9 nights
DD is there for 3 nights
Guests are there for 7 nights

Hence phantom guests as far as the DDP goes. My DD will not be there for 9 of the nights.

To put it another way - what if Disney (and they can as so many want to point out) decided that everyone needed ticket media for the entire length of stay? Or not. Nobody is forcing guests to go to the parks. All or nothing.

 

[BillPA]

So, don't use the DDP. I don't understand why you would want it along with TIW?

 

[MrInfinity]

So why not just split up that res? If you really want DDP for certain guests on only the days they're there, break it up into the one main res you want DDP on, and then a res before and after that you don't with only the guests that will be there at that time. Why do you even want DDP in this case? It sounds like you have mostly adults. DDP is not ideal for you even if you go thru the effort.

 

[Dean]

DVC has zero power to change Disney's policies, DVC is lucky that Disney let's them participate.

Bill

They didn't initially. There was a period of time when DP options were not available to members using points.

 

[supersnoop]

To put it another way - what if Disney (and they can as so many want to point out) decided that everyone needed ticket media for the entire length of stay? Or not. Nobody is forcing guests to go to the parks. All or nothing.

That's not a valid comparison. You can buy your tickets separately, the same way you can walk up and pay for a meal without the dining plan. Your "nothing" scenario would leave you without eating for an entire trip? That's ridiculous.

As has been suggested, simply book separate reservations for each set of people.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

That's not a valid comparison. You can buy your tickets separately, the same way you can walk up and pay for a meal without the dining plan. Your "nothing" scenario would leave you without eating for an entire trip? That's ridiculous.

As has been suggested, simply book separate reservations for each set of people.

Not willing to pack up and leave the room - 2-3 times a trip but thanks for the advice.

 

[supersnoop]

Not willing to pack up and leave the room - 2-3 times a trip but thanks for the advice.

If it's the same room type, you won't have to leave/move.