DDP & DVC rules - still not liking it

[ILoveMyDVC]

After all of these years and countless time lurking I have yet to see a real reason for the all-in rule for DDP & DVC. Especially DVC! One of the benefits of DVC is the villa style with more than 1 bedroom.

I am betting that, like us, many members have guests come and stay with them. I have stayed for 10 -14 days in a 2BR (once in a GV) with multiple guests coming in and out. Nothing weird or outside of the rules. My children have stayed for part of the reservation, other family and friends have flown in/out for other parts. MY DH often has to travel for partial time due to work. We've not pushed the guest:room limits ever.

It is absurd for Disney to insist all people have the DDP for all days. If I am there 14 days, why would anyone in their right mind buy the DDP X 13 nights for a guest staying a long weekend and another DDP x 13 nights for a different guest staying 5 nights? And, no, I do not want to change rooms every time.

Did we ever get a reasonable explanation for this rule? Is it a technology issue (I believe this is the impetus behind the FP in one park/day rule despite the upcharge for hopping privileges)? Is it to discourage DDP for DVC users? Blatant play for $$? Why, why, why?

Another complaint just because I am here - having to make ADRs before FP+s sucks. I used to plan park days by opening/closing, parades/shows, arrival(s), departure(s) and then make ADRs based on where we would be now I have to *try* to get ADRs as far our as possible without knowing if the FP+s will be available or the park times. It's sdrawkcab!

 

[kristenrice]

I believe it is most likely about the money. It would be great if I could buy the DP for myself and DH and we just share the food with our kids. That would cut our dining cost in half and that is not what Disney wants. They are not going to implement a system that is designed to save the guest money because our savings cut into their profits.

 

[tjkraz]

The Disney Dining Plans were always intended to be length of stay plans. The idea being that if you have to buy the DDP for a full 10 day stay, you probably won't eat at the most expensive restaurants and order the most expensive entree every single day. However, if they let someone buy the DDP for just 3 nights of a 10-night stay, most people would try to get every last dime worth of value from it.

With that in mind, if they allowed guests to designate "Uncle Bob will only be here for 3 days...then Aunt Jane for 4 days...", people would simply lie to abuse the system.

And yes, computer system considerations almost certainly play a role. The vast majority of people buying the DDP are cash guests and most don't have people coming-and-going over the course of a stay.

 

[tjkraz]

I believe it is most likely about the money. It would be great if I could buy the DP for myself and DH and we just share the food with our kids. That would cut our dining cost in half and that is not what Disney wants. They are not going to implement a system that is designed to save the guest money because our savings cut into their profits.

The dining plan is a quid pro quo...something for something. Disney offers the DDP as a way to save a little money on dining. In return we have to accept the terms and conditions associated with it, which includes the length-of-stay requirement and need to buy for all party members.

If guests don't like the full terms, can always pay full price and share. Or buy TIW. Or stick to locations with DVC/AP discount (which is what we tend to do.)

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

The dining plan is a quid pro quo...something for something. Disney offers the DDP as a way to save a little money on dining. In return we have to accept the terms and conditions associated with it, which includes the length-of-stay requirement and need to buy for all party members.

If guests don't like the full terms, can always pay full price and share. Or buy TIW. Or stick to locations with DVC/AP discount (which is what we tend to do.)

I always have a TIW. It's about the simplicity of pre-paying the dining cost for the guests. It's easier for all to comprehend - Lunch & Dinner plus one snack each day will be XYZ - it also reduces sticker shock and the anxiety of planning fun ADRs and experiences for all friends/family. I can live with the terms - each guest - all the nights while there - but not paying for phantom nights for phantom guests.

 

[drusba]

For as long as I remember, including long before DVC got dining plans, dining plans have been the all or nothing length of stay rule. Like many things Disney does, it does not explain why it chooses to limit it that way. As a practical matter, dining plans are something DVC members should often avoid, particularly in the 2BR 14-day stay you mention. For the dining plan to be financially wise, you really must use most everything in the plan. A DVC member staying 14 days in a 2BR would likely be someone like us who often stay 9 or 10 days in a 2BR. We buy groceries and do at least some eating in the room. Not everyone has breakfast every day, not everyoine goes to the park everyday, you do not always do a sit down group meal everyday, you can use some of the DVC dining discounts. Frankly, as the trip organizer and overseer, I would probably drive myself nuts trying to do the extra duty of making sure all in the room were using up their dining plan credits.

 

[kristenrice]

We "pre-pay" for our dining by booking our ADR's and then checking out the menu. I budget for 1-2 appetizers 4 entrees, 4 desserts and 4 N/A beverages at the TS restaurants. Then, I add another $150/day to cover CS meals and snacks. Whatever that number amounts to, I round up to the nearest $100 and I buy Disney gift cards. Anything left on the card at the end of the trip can be used for souvenirs or it's carried over to the next trip.

 

[MrInfinity]

After all of these years and countless time lurking I have yet to see a real reason for the all-in rule for DDP & DVC. Especially DVC! One of the benefits of DVC is the villa style with more than 1 bedroom. I have stayed for 10 -14 days in a 2BR (once in a GV) with multiple guests coming in and out. Nothing weird or outside of the rules. My children have stayed for part of the reservation, other family and friends have flown in/out for other parts.

I couldn't see the DDP being any other way. You wouldn't go to Mexico and pay for all-inclusive for part of your stay then a-la-carte for the rest. It would be weird and complicated. There would have to be some check-out and check-in process to rescind your wrist band or change sections of the resort. Really the hotels are not meant to be manipulated in this way. Sure you may follow the rule about not exceeding the occupancy, but you are ignoring the rules that guests be on the reservation and not transfer bands.

If you're staying with Mike & Sully for Mon-Wed, then Izma and Kronk for Wed-Sat, just book 2 ressies and link them. You can then get the DDP just for your Mon-Wed guests. But... you're shorting yourself magic bands, since if you book Mike and Sully for the full length and then just have Izma and Kronk stay in their spots, Izma and Kronk would not get bands or FastPasses unless you give them Mike & Sully's.

Another complaint just because I am here - having to make ADRs before FP+s sucks. I used to plan park days by opening/closing, parades/shows, arrival(s), departure(s) and then make ADRs based on where we would be now I have to *try* to get ADRs as far our as possible without knowing if the FP+s will be available or the park times. It's backwards!

I like it how it is, but it's subjective. I find ADRs to be a more important part of the trip so I like booking them first.

I am betting that, like us, many members have guests come and stay with them

I'd guess most -- almost all -- guests are there with the same family the entire time. If someone like a parent joins up while on work midway thru a trip then they're on the res from the start.

 

[cvjw]

A few years back, DVC changed the dining plan rules a bit and allowed you to split your continuous stay into separate parts and pay for the dining plan for only part of your stay. We tried it with 7 people in a 2 bedroom at Kidani Village and paid for the regular disney dining plan part of the week and the quick service plan the other part. This was before magic bands, when you only used the plastic key cards.

It was the most stressful trip we have ever had. We had over 70 different key cards for 4 days. The cards never worked to open our doors, and only 1 person out of 7 could use the dining plan. The rest of us had cards with no dining plan entitlements on them. I spent at least an hour each day at the front desk, trying to sort out the issues. We all had to stay together the whole trip so that the one person with the card with the dining plan on it could pay for our meals and snacks.

In the end, they could not fix the problems. It was strictly a disney IT problem - the system just was not set up to have a dining plan for only part of a stay. The program was done away with right after our stay

Unless Disney seriously upgrades their IT capability, I would never want to risk a partial dining plan booking ever again It just was not worth it.

 

[BillPA]

The easiest way is to book 2 or more reservations. Get the DDP for 1 or more segments.
I have not found the DDP to be any savings, especially if you already have TIW. It was good when it first came out, but not any longer. Just remember if they weren't making lots of money on it, they would drop it.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I just look at it as an option offered by Disney. If it doesn't work for the group it isn't a requirement and there are other ways to "pre-pay" for dining. Just get gift cards for the amount expected for dining. If there isn't an idea of what the normal might be then take the amount that Disney would charge for the DP. You might find you leave with some money still left on the cards to use for something else. It might make planning the dining easier too although I don't know if maximizing the plan is something you've attempted to do. But if so it can open up more options when not working to do that.

 

[bumbershoot]

I'd guess most -- almost all -- guests are there with the same family the entire time.

That's my guess, too. Not everyone has family in FL that wants to visit. Not everyone has extended family/friends who are going to WDW at the same time. And not all owners are willing to book something bigger than they need so that others can drop in during the trip.

We *do* have family in FL, and when we can we book a big room *for while they are there*, and then we move rooms and even resorts once they go home.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

For as long as I remember, including long before DVC got dining plans, dining plans have been the all or nothing length of stay rule. Like many things Disney does, it does not explain why it chooses to limit it that way. As a practical matter, dining plans are something DVC members should often avoid, particularly in the 2BR 14-day stay you mention. For the dining plan to be financially wise, you really must use most everything in the plan. A DVC member staying 14 days in a 2BR would likely be someone like us who often stay 9 or 10 days in a 2BR. We buy groceries and do at least some eating in the room. Not everyone has breakfast every day, not everyoine goes to the park everyday, you do not always do a sit down group meal everyday, you can use some of the DVC dining discounts. Frankly, as the trip organizer and overseer, I would probably drive myself nuts trying to do the extra duty of making sure all in the room were using up their dining plan credits.

I am not questioning hte length of stay rule! I want to enforce it - the dining plan is for the LENGTH of STAY of each guest not my length of stay for someone staying as a guest for a few days.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

The easiest way is to book 2 or more reservations. Get the DDP for 1 or more segments.
I have not found the DDP to be any savings, especially if you already have TIW. It was good when it first came out, but not any longer. Just remember if they weren't making lots of money on it, they would drop it.

Remember the first Food & Fun card - appetizer, sour or salad, entree and dessert plus unlimited use of the boats, mini golf...oh how I miss that

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

That's my guess, too. Not everyone has family in FL that wants to visit. Not everyone has extended family/friends who are going to WDW at the same time. And not all owners are willing to book something bigger than they need so that others can drop in during the trip.

We *do* have family in FL, and when we can we book a big room *for while they are there*, and then we move rooms and even resorts once they go home.

I book a 2 BR for 10 - 14 days. One or both of my children fly in for part of the stay; friends or other family come in for the remainder. I love being able to offer accommodations to friends and family: It is what makes DV special to us. (I think it's in the original commercial) We do not have family or friends in FL. Once I set up the villa, I do not want to pack and move.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

I couldn't see the DDP being any other way. You wouldn't go to Mexico and pay for all-inclusive for part of your stay then a-la-carte for the rest. It would be weird and complicated. There would have to be some check-out and check-in process to rescind your wrist band or change sections of the resort. Really the hotels are not meant to be manipulated in this way. Sure you may follow the rule about not exceeding the occupancy, but you are ignoring the rules that guests be on the reservation and not transfer bands.

What are you talking about? Transferring bands? WOW! I tell DVC about each and every guest - in fact, that is how DME works - the bus picks up and delivers the different guests based on their flights. EACH guest BUYS the appropriate ticket media and have their own MB. There is no sharing. Best be careful before you use the BB to shield you from a libelous accusation


I am not suggesting that I pay all-inclusive style for some of the days. I am willing and happy to pay for all of the days I am there. What I find disturbing is paying all-inclusive for people that are NOT there for all of the days. I can't imagine a resort in Mexico charging for people that are not even in their country.

 

[CarolMN]

We are all entitled to like or not like Disney's dining plans. Totally understand that it doesn't fit the OP's situation and that she would like Disney to change the rules. Based on my experience, that is very unlikely to happen. If we want a dining plan, we have to take it as offered.

OP - Since you seem to feel strongly about this, my advice is to write to Member Satisfaction. Perhaps if enough others do the same, Disney will revise the offering (although I would be very surprised if they did so).

 

[Dean]

After all of these years and countless time lurking I have yet to see a real reason for the all-in rule for DDP & DVC. Especially DVC! One of the benefits of DVC is the villa style with more than 1 bedroom.

I am betting that, like us, many members have guests come and stay with them. I have stayed for 10 -14 days in a 2BR (once in a GV) with multiple guests coming in and out. Nothing weird or outside of the rules. My children have stayed for part of the reservation, other family and friends have flown in/out for other parts. MY DH often has to travel for partial time due to work. We've not pushed the guest:room limits ever.

It is absurd for Disney to insist all people have the DDP for all days. If I am there 14 days, why would anyone in their right mind buy the DDP X 13 nights for a guest staying a long weekend and another DDP x 13 nights for a different guest staying 5 nights? And, no, I do not want to change rooms every time.

Did we ever get a reasonable explanation for this rule? Is it a technology issue (I believe this is the impetus behind the FP in one park/day rule despite the upcharge for hopping privileges)? Is it to discourage DDP for DVC users? Blatant play for $$? Why, why, why?

Another complaint just because I am here - having to make ADRs before FP+s sucks. I used to plan park days by opening/closing, parades/shows, arrival(s), departure(s) and then make ADRs based on where we would be now I have to *try* to get ADRs as far our as possible without knowing if the FP+s will be available or the park times. It's sdrawkcab!

As noted, historically similar programs have all been this way. It's their right to do so, we can vote with our wallet's. Remember there was a time when these options were not even available to DVC, as such, this is a regular Disney program that has been opened up to DVC as well. It is by design an all or none issue. It also has the potential of a catch 22 since you have to add it 48 hrs out but everyone in the room has to be on it.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

We are all entitled to like or not like Disney's dining plans. Totally understand that it doesn't fit the OP's situation and that she would like Disney to change the rules. Based on my experience, that is very unlikely to happen. If we want a dining plan, we have to take it as offered.

OP - Since you seem to feel strongly about this, my advice is to write to Member Satisfaction. Perhaps if enough others do the same, Disney will revise the offering (although I would be very surprised if they did so).

It is a situation that aggravates me and this is a BB with lots of opinions and debate. This is a forum for DVC members. I am a DVC Member - any person that I discuss this with not on the Disboards easily understands and gets the absurdity of paying for fake guests/night.

What I feel very strongly about is the need for other posters to attack anything remotely questioning a Disney policy. I'd like to campaign for DVC to end the Gold Pass rates. It's absurd for Disney to have to subsidize the very wealthy DVC members. If they don't like it, they should sell their membership. Why would anyone expect any discount for DVC?

Anyone on a DVC points reservation should have to pay for a park ticket for every guest for every day. Does that sound reasonable?

 

[DougEMG]

It is a situation that aggravates me and this is a BB with lots of opinions and debate. This is a forum for DVC members. I am a DVC Member - any person that I discuss this with not on the Disboards easily understands and gets the absurdity of paying for fake guests/night.

What I feel very strongly about is the need for other posters to attack anything remotely questioning a Disney policy. I'd like to campaign for DVC to end the Gold Pass rates. It's absurd for Disney to have to subsidize the very wealthy DVC members. If they don't like it, they should sell their membership. Why would anyone expect any discount for DVC?

Anyone on a DVC points reservation should have to pay for a park ticket for every guest for every day. Does that sound reasonable?

I think the thing to remember is that Disney only does what is best for Disney. With the dining plan changing to anything else would allow the system to be gamed resulting in Disney losing money, so you can see why they don't want to do that. With Disney offering discounted passes it is so we go more often and spend more money then we otherwise would have, again a benefit for Disney. Anytime a guests get a benefit it is only because Disney is getting an even bigger benefit. So come up with a reason to explain how Disney would benefit be allowing the number of people on the Dining plan to change on a single reservation.

You could try setting up the reservation as multiple linked reservations with different number of people on each link. That does make it impossible to save dining credits across the links, but could work if you really needed it to.

Me, I'd like if DVC members got a 20% dining discount at select locations. It would get me out of the room and eating out more. The question for Disney would be are the restaurants busy enough that I would be stoping a guest who was paying full price. If not, then they would get more money from me and other DVC guest who also eat in their room a lot. Maybe we'll see something like this when the next recession hits!