Dave Ramsey as a Wedding Gift??? Not to sure about that?

[eliza61]

It's interesting to me how often people say "finance is *very personal*". I know we have that term "personal finance"....but I've always thought of that as personal as in......pertaining to the individual situation of that "person or people"....but not that "it's taboo to talk about it". Especially within the boundaries of the family.

We must be really weird, but in my immediate family....we talk about money.....openly. We even talk numbers and we celebrate accomplishment. We don't see it as "bragging" when my younger sister calls to tell me that her husband just settled a case and just made $250,000. We high-fived him, and then my whole family took them out to dinner. When my older sister was promoted to COO at her huge company (a huge accomplishment).....we sent a huge basket to her home in NC. And yes, she told me how much her raise was.

.

Hey DVCgirl, glad to hear from you.

Unfortunately I'm going to agree with you and say, yep your weird. Ok maybe not weird but definitely, definitely in the minority.

remember it's only been lately that women have known about their "family" finances. My mom was a civil rights attorney, I mean a really smart cookie working with some serious heavy hitting civil rights attorny's on the voting rights bill and yet she difered (sp?) to my dad on every thing from their mortgage to life insurance.

Now in your example, that's pretty easy to talk about. we all want our loved ones to do well but generally as a society we teach and are taught the a person finances should never be discussed.

Case in point, my sister is a retired state cop and remember when the big blow up occured in Wisconsin (i think that's the state) because the gov wanted to get rid of collective barganing for state workers. We were discussing the situation and the difference between government workers and private industry and I asked her how much her pension was and she replied very snippily "none of your business". It was weird because we're very close, talk to each other at the minimum 2X a week and yet she thought it was extremely rude that I asked about her pension.

I think that is still the prevailing attitude.

 

[tlbwriter]

But within a family, I think as long as all of the players are comfortable, it's not only okay to "talk money", it's healthy.

I agree, as long as the bolded applies.

I don't think Mrs. Ramsey would like it.

Oh, who knows... maybe she's getting as tired of him as some posters are...

 

[ilovemk76]

It's interesting to me how often people say "finance is *very personal*". I know we have that term "personal finance"....but I've always thought of that as personal as in......pertaining to the individual situation of that "person or people"....but not that "it's taboo to talk about it". Especially within the boundaries of the family.

We must be really weird, but in my immediate family....we talk about money.....openly. We even talk numbers and we celebrate accomplishment. We don't see it as "bragging" when my younger sister calls to tell me that her husband just settled a case and just made $250,000. We high-fived him, and then my whole family took them out to dinner. When my older sister was promoted to COO at her huge company (a huge accomplishment).....we sent a huge basket to her home in NC. And yes, she told me how much her raise was.

And she and her spouse earn close to twice what we do....and we're thrilled for them. My other sister and her spouse....sometimes earn more, sometimes less. But we talk about it. And it's not just because we're all doing well now....we (my sisters and I) have always been this way....and we've married people who operate the same way. My younger sister's husband in particular....he and his three brothers talk openly about finances.

And the little ones in our family (ages 4,5 and 6) are hearing us talk openly about finances and that hard work, education and dedication are tied to financial success. And I love that.... We talk to them about these discussions staying "in the family". So they know not to brag. But within a family, I think as long as all of the players are comfortable, it's not only okay to "talk money", it's healthy.

You are not the norm. Everybody I know see doing that as bragging. Do you not see how your "helpful posts" on the DIS maybe see as bragging. We do talk about finances but that can be done just fine without saying "I make $X/year and look what I did with it."

 

[redandblue]

I don't think what the caller was doing was wrong. Now I am not sure the FPU will be all that wonderful of a gift for a young couple. But for an older sister to give her baby brother (I am assuming this is the relationship) and his new bride and say, "now I would love for you guys to start an account with this $1000 and use if for your emergency fund don't touch it unless you absolutly have." I really see no problem. That is an awesome gift she knows that once she gives it it is their's to do as they will but just mentioning that might put the bug in their ear how important it is for a couple to have a little money put away.

And if they went into debt paying for the wedding that $1000 will be used as a EF to get them out of debt.

 

[crisi]

It's interesting to me how often people say "finance is *very personal*". I know we have that term "personal finance"....but I've always thought of that as personal as in......pertaining to the individual situation of that "person or people"....but not that "it's taboo to talk about it". Especially within the boundaries of the family.

We must be really weird, but in my immediate family....we talk about money.....openly. We even talk numbers and we celebrate accomplishment. We don't see it as "bragging" when my younger sister calls to tell me that her husband just settled a case and just made $250,000. We high-fived him, and then my whole family took them out to dinner. When my older sister was promoted to COO at her huge company (a huge accomplishment).....we sent a huge basket to her home in NC. And yes, she told me how much her raise was.

And she and her spouse earn close to twice what we do....and we're thrilled for them. My other sister and her spouse....sometimes earn more, sometimes less. But we talk about it. And it's not just because we're all doing well now....we (my sisters and I) have always been this way....and we've married people who operate the same way. My younger sister's husband in particular....he and his three brothers talk openly about finances.

And the little ones in our family (ages 4,5 and 6) are hearing us talk openly about finances and that hard work, education and dedication are tied to financial success. And I love that.... We talk to them about these discussions staying "in the family". So they know not to brag. But within a family, I think as long as all of the players are comfortable, it's not only okay to "talk money", it's healthy.

We are pretty open about those things as well....but I KNOW that is not the normal case for a lot of people. And therefore, even if I knew my brother well, if I didn't know the woman he was marrying well, such a topic would be taboo around her - at least until I understood her a little better. Also, regardless of the relationship I had with my sibling, any advice to my sibling during the engagement or early in the marriage would be carefully considered - its too easy for your sibling to go to their fiancee with "crisi says we should do a full disclosure of our assets and debts before we get married." And for me to suddenly become the bad guy over the $5000 secret Visa bill.

 

[redandblue]

I want to say DH got me into Dave Ramsey and really wanted to focus on being debt free and I said no and then I wanted to and he said he was no longer interested. (only debt we have is our truck and 2 houses we own, 1 being dh's old house we still own)

Anyway the past year I have really lost interest in Dave he is starting to remind me of Dr. Phil (in looks and personality)

 

[tlbwriter]

I don't think what the caller was doing was wrong. Now I am not sure the FPU will be all that wonderful of a gift for a young couple. But for an older sister to give her baby brother (I am assuming this is the relationship) and his new bride and say, "now I would love for you guys to start an account with this $1000 and use if for your emergency fund don't touch it unless you absolutly have."

While you're at it, give them an Atkins book and a giftcard to their favorite grocery store and say "I would like to start you off with some low carb foods. Be sure not to eat more than 20 grams of carbs a day."

I really see no problem. That is an awesome gift she knows that once she gives it it is their's to do as they will but just mentioning that might put the bug in their ear how important it is for a couple to have a little money put away.

What you consider a "bug in their ear," other people consider strings. And it's rude to give a gift with strings attached.

 

[redandblue]

I would hate to be in some of your families, talk about no good deed goes unpunished. Geesh giving a young couple a $1000 dollars to be used as a EF is a wonderful gift. It wasn't mentioned in the OP but if they are a young couple just starting out on their own why is it an insult for a family member to give them some incentive to start a new life being financially sound and knowledgable of their finances?

Would you be insulted if his sister said I will pay for your college but you need to actually go to college? She isn't saying take this money and use it to buy stock in X company or you can only use this money to put towards your future kid's college. She is saying take this money and put it away for a rainy day, she isn't detailing what she consideres a "rainy day". Why is it less insulting when grandma gives you $50 and says "now I don't want you to use this on bills I want you to do something fun with it"

 

[crisi]

I would hate to be in some of your families, talk about no good deed goes unpunished. Geesh giving a young couple a $1000 dollars to be used as a EF is a wonderful gift. It wasn't mentioned in the OP but if they are a young couple just starting out on their own why is it an insult for a family member to give them some incentive to start a new life being financially sound and knowledgable of their finances?

Because
1) They may already BE financially sound
2) Their ideas of what financially sound is might be different than yours or Dave Ramsey's
3) They may be offended by the tone or content of Dave Ramsey's material
4) They may not wish to dedicate 14 weeks to a seminar
5) They may have $1,000 in their emergency fund already - now what do they do with your gift?
6) They may be - get this - perfectly happy living a life that isn't at all financially sound. One of my girlfriends travels around the country in the back of a van, doing art, taking odd jobs - she spent last summer doing migrant farm labor. It is not something I could do, or would want to do, but its HER life.

 

[tlbwriter]

I would hate to be in some of your families, talk about no good deed goes unpunished. Geesh giving a young couple a $1000 dollars to be used as a EF is a wonderful gift. It wasn't mentioned in the OP but if they are a young couple just starting out on their own why is it an insult for a family member to give them some incentive to start a new life being financially sound and knowledgable of their finances?

Would you be insulted if his sister said I will pay for your college but you need to actually go to college? She isn't saying take this money and use it to buy stock in X company or you can only use this money to put towards your future kid's college. She is saying take this money and put it away for a rainy day, she isn't detailing what she consideres a "rainy day". Why is it less insulting when grandma gives you $50 and says "now I don't want you to use this on bills I want you to do something fun with it"

It's insulting because it's based on the presumption that the couple doesn't already have $1000 in savings, that they will believe in the DR program and want to do things that way, and that they need help with their finances. That doesn't compare to giving someone money and telling them to do something fun with it.

 

[bumbershoot]

Anyway the past year I have really lost interest in Dave he is starting to remind me of Dr. Phil (in looks and personality)

Take my route...don't watch or listen to him! I read TMMO, read through the free content of his site, and let llnoe.com do the rest (can't wait until the site is back up!). If watching someone bugs you, don't watch 'em!

 

[Karlzmom]

That may actually be less classy than the vacuum cleaner my mother in law gave me as a wedding gift (and I thought there couldn't be anything more tacky).

Ok, I'll bite.....how is a vacuum cleaner "tacky"? Isn't the point of wedding presents to help set up house for the new couple? Seems like household goods are exactly in order....

 

[dvcgirl]

Hey DVCgirl, glad to hear from you.

Unfortunately I'm going to agree with you and say, yep your weird. Ok maybe not weird but definitely, definitely in the minority.

remember it's only been lately that women have known about their "family" finances. My mom was a civil rights attorney, I mean a really smart cookie working with some serious heavy hitting civil rights attorny's on the voting rights bill and yet she difered (sp?) to my dad on every thing from their mortgage to life insurance.

Now in your example, that's pretty easy to talk about. we all want our loved ones to do well but generally as a society we teach and are taught the a person finances should never be discussed.

Case in point, my sister is a retired state cop and remember when the big blow up occured in Wisconsin (i think that's the state) because the gov wanted to get rid of collective barganing for state workers. We were discussing the situation and the difference between government workers and private industry and I asked her how much her pension was and she replied very snippily "none of your business". It was weird because we're very close, talk to each other at the minimum 2X a week and yet she thought it was extremely rude that I asked about her pension.

I think that is still the prevailing attitude.

Heh....yeah, I know we're in the minority in our immediate family. Obviously part of the reason that we're all comfortable talking openly is that all of our basic needs are more than met. Nobody is struggling financially.

We don't have discussions like this around other members of the family who aren't great with their finances or who would feel uncomfortable in any way. And when there's real dysfunction involved, like with my husband's brother, we deliberately avoid talking about money....*ever*. Because things have gotten very bad for him, his ex-wife (recently divorced) and their two adult children. We've helped all of them to some extent.....but there's been deceit involved with the adult children (our niece and nephew), and just lots of headaches. That crew views us as a "money tree".....and my husband's parents as a "money forrest". DH had to step in to stop it.

So, yes....maybe my sisters and our spouses are weird....but in our little corner of the world, it's a "good weird". We're also all pretty frugal with respect to our incomes...and my one sister and I live in an area where incomes are insanely high. My older sister lives in Chapel Hill, NC....so basically, the same deal. My little niece and nephews are going to school with some kids who are downright spoiled...and so we tie "money talk" to accomplishment.....and talk a lot about getting to do or buy "special things" because we work hard.....you get my drift.

The reason DH and I gave the book (not Dave Ramsey's book, but a different personal finance book) to my cousin and his bride-to-be as a *part* of their engagement gift was to try and help them get off on the right foot financially.

I wrote a note inside offering to sit down with them to go over some basic stuff regarding money & marriage....guiding them in setting some financial goals. And like I said, I was pleasantly surprised that they were both excited about the idea. So, I think if you go about this kind of thing the right way, and make sure you're not giving advice that isn't wanted.....it can be a great thing.

This young man (who isn't so young anymore....he's 28), has made some "not so great" moves with money. I love my aunt to death (his Mom and my Mother's sister), but she's just always been terrible with her money and so he's not had a great role model in that department. He's a good kid, works in the landscaping crew for a local school system.....high school grad, but no college. His bride-to-be is also a high school grad and works as a secretary....but she has potential to earn a bit more as she just landed a job with a large company. If my cousin stays where he is....he's very limited income-wise. No pension for either of them.

There's no plans for college for either of them. They rent. Money is always tight. And they want to buy a home...have children....in New Jersey, and they earn probably about 70 K a year combined (a guess on my part...but I'm probably not off by much). Her parents are really sweet....her Dad has been a postal worker for 25 years. Her Mom is a secretary for a school system. They received an inheritance years back when an uncle passed and put aside 30K of it for their only daughter's wedding.

And so, for this young couple, this is a *big* deal. They're going to have a lovely wedding....with 200 or so people and in NJ....as you know, they'll get all cash gifts. And this could very well be the biggest lump sum of money that they will *ever* see. They could end up with 25K or more in cash.

So, we felt it was a good idea to sit down with them a few times in the year leading up to their wedding to help guide them a bit if they were open to the idea. And thankfully....they are .

 

[dvcgirl]

Because
1) They may already BE financially sound
2) Their ideas of what financially sound is might be different than yours or Dave Ramsey's
3) They may be offended by the tone or content of Dave Ramsey's material
4) They may not wish to dedicate 14 weeks to a seminar
5) They may have $1,000 in their emergency fund already - now what do they do with your gift?
6) They may be - get this - perfectly happy living a life that isn't at all financially sound. One of my girlfriends travels around the country in the back of a van, doing art, taking odd jobs - she spent last summer doing migrant farm labor. It is not something I could do, or would want to do, but its HER life.

All true....

I really think that you have to really have a close relationship with the person to give a book like that....or the class. And I don't think you should ever attach a set of rules with a gift, like...."here's $1,000....but it has to be your emergency fund....enjoy!"

 

[Pigeon]

We talk to them about these discussions staying "in the family". So they know not to brag. .

There are some people who clearly wouldn't recognize bragging if it bit them in the rear end.

 

[dvcgirl]

There are some people who clearly wouldn't recognize bragging if it bit them in the rear end.

lol! Good one....

Seriously, I find it liberating to talk openly about finances here....and with my family.

I didn't mention our income here until maybe a year or two ago....and thought about it before posting the number. People post the amount of income that they earn here *all* of the time. It's not uncommon at all to see people say..."DH and I earn 80K a year combined..." or even *gasp* "in the low six figures"....because that's so much more tactful that saying $110,000 .

So I figured...why not? I know that it's "taboo" to a lot of people to talk about money. But it's not for me...and none of us "know" each other around here...so why not? Well, because some people are just plain envious. That's why. It bothers them. I mean, really bothers them.

In my "real life", I'm really rather quiet....and to anyone who doesn't me really well....very private about my finances. And I live in an area where incomes are very high. The town where most of my customers lives...the *median* income is 362,000 a year. Most of my customers are well above that median. I'm "the help" to them....and yet, earn a nice living....and combined with DH's income, we're above the average. Big deal? It's really just a number to me.

But posting it here....heh, it's really interesting.

Oh well, I really stopped caring what other people thought of me right around the time that the first Bush guy entered the White House.

 

[SaraJayne]

There are some people who clearly wouldn't recognize bragging if it bit them in the rear end.

 

[arthur06]

To quote Tommy Lee Jones from Men in Black

"a person is smart, people are dumb and ignorant" (or something close to that!)

 

[dvcgirl]

We are pretty open about those things as well....but I KNOW that is not the normal case for a lot of people. And therefore, even if I knew my brother well, if I didn't know the woman he was marrying well, such a topic would be taboo around her - at least until I understood her a little better. Also, regardless of the relationship I had with my sibling, any advice to my sibling during the engagement or early in the marriage would be carefully considered - its too easy for your sibling to go to their fiancee with "crisi says we should do a full disclosure of our assets and debts before we get married." And for me to suddenly become the bad guy over the $5000 secret Visa bill.

Yes, I know it's not "normal".....for families, and certainly not for this board. But I'm cool with being a bit different from the masses if that's the case.

I hear what you're saying about not knowing your brother's girlfriend well. My cousin has been dating this girl for 5 years....a very long time. She's four years younger than he, and so he needed to "make the move" so to speak....because that's a long time for a girl to wait. So, she's "been in the family" for quite some time. We're very comfortable with her.

One of the "missteps" that my cousin made with money....just a few years back, he "purchased" a used Mercedes.....on a six year payment plan. Of course, we heard about it ahead of time....and since it wasn't our business, we kept our mouths shut. He hadn't moved in with his girlfriend yet, but was living with a few of his buddies. Mind you, this 25 year old was earning about 35K a year and paid *way* too much for a 2005 Mercedes...one of the cheaper ones "C class ?"....anyway, it was insanity.

He realized his mistake within six months....sheepishly admitted he was a "a fool". We told him that we've all done those kinds of things....especially when we were younger, but the key is to not make those kinds of mistakes twice. But with my cousin, I think he's found himself a very good partner....he'll be the spender, she'll be the saver. The problem for them is that they have very little margin for mistakes with their income in our state. And so, that's why we want to counsel them a bit before all of that cash comes rolling in the day of their wedding.

That could be a downpayment on a house, or seed money for a business....something to take them to the next level. Without an education, I think a small business is going to be their "step up" to where I know they'd like to be income-wise. So....one step at a time.

 

[Tiger926]

It's interesting to me how often people say "finance is *very personal*". I know we have that term "personal finance"....but I've always thought of that as personal as in......pertaining to the individual situation of that "person or people"....but not that "it's taboo to talk about it". Especially within the boundaries of the family.

We must be really weird, but in my immediate family....we talk about money.....openly. We even talk numbers and we celebrate accomplishment. We don't see it as "bragging" when my younger sister calls to tell me that her husband just settled a case and just made $250,000. We high-fived him, and then my whole family took them out to dinner. When my older sister was promoted to COO at her huge company (a huge accomplishment).....we sent a huge basket to her home in NC. And yes, she told me how much her raise was.

And she and her spouse earn close to twice what we do....and we're thrilled for them. My other sister and her spouse....sometimes earn more, sometimes less. But we talk about it. And it's not just because we're all doing well now....we (my sisters and I) have always been this way....and we've married people who operate the same way. My younger sister's husband in particular....he and his three brothers talk openly about finances.

And the little ones in our family (ages 4,5 and 6) are hearing us talk openly about finances and that hard work, education and dedication are tied to financial success. And I love that.... We talk to them about these discussions staying "in the family". So they know not to brag. But within a family, I think as long as all of the players are comfortable, it's not only okay to "talk money", it's healthy.

Personal as in it's a subject that comes with lots of values and judgments attached to it. What is frugal to you, may not be to me. What is saving to you, may not be to me; therefore, no matter how close you are to a person, you should never make the decision that they will need a financial savings program as that is passing judgment on them. They may want to save in another way besides going to a 14 week seminar. Ramsay's program is one way to save, and it's not anyone else's job to force that on anyone else, especially as condition for receipt of a gift.

Incidentally, we are very close to my sister/brother in law and parents as well. As I mentioned, my hubby is the family banker, so he knows what is in the accounts, and we all talk very openly about finances too. Especially my parents, as they have a big portfolio that my sister and I will inherit one day, so they make sure we know what is going on, plus, we are co-executors of their wills, so we need to know, should anything happen to them. Plus they are in business together, so we need to know for that reason too. I really don't think that's the norm though. None of it is ever done in a bragging way either.

I would say though that on an Internet message board, that is not necessary. No one here needs to know how much you or I make in terms of an informative nature, like for wills or estates as I mentioned. I fail to see how mentioning how much you make serves any useful purpose? Everyone's financial situation is different and based on many variables: job security, cost of living, investments, etc. So, mentioning how much you make serves me no purpose as I don't live in the same city as you, and therefore, my cost of living is different, plus, I have 2 children.

This thread is interesting, from the perspective of seeing how people feel about a strings attached gift, especially a financial education program like Ramsay's. I don't see how mentioning personal salaries is relevant to that though? We also discuss money around our kids and nieces, so that they learn about cost of living, savings, etc., but mentioning salaries is really not necessary, nor relevant to young children, as all they are most likely going to do is mention those numbers to someone else, and I fail to see how that serves any useful purpose either?

Tiger