Dating questions after seeing Courageous.

[dansamy]

************* amongst teenagers isn't really a part of the social structure here. Teenagers typically attend youth group activities together as a group, with some couples pairing up to sit together, eat together, etc. But you aren't really alone on a solo date as teenagers.

I would honestly prefer that sort of thing for my children. Group activities and couples parties or group dates. (A girlfriend of mine had a couples party for her sweet 16. I think her older brother and I went as "friends" or it might have been my now DH as "friends".)

There's no grilling necessary really. I expect to know about any of my children's dates ahead of time. I expect they'll tell me about the people they are interested in dating. I don't need to grill your kid. I'll be grilling mine!

In all seriousness, what I want and what really happens may be two different things. And I've got a long way to go. My DS12 is not yet interested in girls and is still of the "Girls are gross!", "I'm never getting married and having kids!" mindset. I hope that he'll come to me with something along the lines of "Mom, you know I've been hanging around Jane. I think I really like her. etc, etc"

 

[laurie31]

Well said. I completely agree but will add that, as long as my daughters are minors living in my home, I expect anyone coming to get them to walk up, knock on the door and say hello to us. I think it's a reasonable request of the date and I hope my dds will agree that any guy who refuses to do this is probably not worth going out with, and that they won't sneak out if the house to see him.

LOL! This reminds me of those "rules to date my daughter" that got forwarded around about 15 years ago.

One was along the lines of "If you pull up in the driveway and honk, you'd better be making a delivery, because you're sure not picking anything up!"

The bolded part =

I wonder does the OP take online applications? Perhaps a Skype interview. That way, if, for example, my son is applying, I could coach him off to the side of the screen.

Google is awesome. I found them!

Disclaimer: The following is meant for amusement, and not intended to make fun of the OP or anyone else on this thread.

Daddy's Rules for Dating

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your dad's rules for your boyfriend (or for you if you're a guy):

Rule One:
If you pull into my driveway and honk you'd better be delivering a package, because you're sure not picking anything up.

Rule Two:
You do not touch my daughter in front of me. You may glance at her, so long as you do not peer at anything below her neck. If you cannot keep your eyes or hands off of my daughter's body, I will remove them.

Rule Three:
I am aware that it is considered fashionable for boys of your age to wear their trousers so loosely that they appear to be falling off their hips. Please don't take this as an insult, but you and all of your friends are complete idiots. Still, I want to be fair and open minded about this issue, so I propose this compromise: You may come to the door with your underwear showing and your pants ten sizes too big, and I will not object. However, in order to ensure that your clothes do no, in fact come off during the course of your date with my daughter, I will take my electric nail gun and fasten your trousers securely in place to your waist.

Rule Four:
I'm sure you've been told that in today's world, sex without utilizing a "Barrier method" of some kind can kill you. Let me elaborate, when it comes to sex, I am the barrier, and I will kill you.

Rule Five:
It is usually understood that in order for us to get to know each other, we should talk about sports, politics, and other issues of the day. Please do not do this. The only information I require from you is an indication of when you expect to have my daughter safely back at my house, and the only word I need from you on this subject is: "early."

Rule Six:
I have no doubt you are a popular fellow, with many opportunities to date other girls. This is fine with me as long as it is okay with my daughter. Otherwise, once you have gone out with my little girl, you will continue to date no one but her until she is finished with you. If you make her cry, I will make you cry.

Rule Seven:
As you stand in my front hallway, waiting for my daughter to appear, and more than an hour goes by, do not sigh and fidget. If you want to be on time for the movie, you should not be dating. My daughter is putting on her makeup, a process than can take longer than painting the Golden Gate Bridge. Instead of just standing there, why don't you do something useful, like changing the oil in my car?

Rule Eight:
The following places are not appropriate for a date with my daughter: Places where there are beds, sofas, or anything softer than a wooden stool. Places where there is darkness. Places where there is dancing, holding hands, or happiness. Places where the ambient temperature is warm enough to induce my daughter to wear shorts, tank tops, midriff T-shirts, or anything other than overalls, a sweater, and a goose down parka - zipped up to her throat. Movies with a strong romantic or sexual theme are to be avoided; movies which features chain saws are okay. Hockey games are okay. Old folks homes are better.

Rule Nine:
Do not lie to me. I may appear to be a potbellied, balding, middle-aged, dimwitted has-been. But on issues relating to my daughter, I am the all-knowing, merciless god of your universe. If I ask you where you are going and with whom, you have one chance to tell me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I have a shotgun, a shovel, and five acres behind the house. Do not trifle with me.

Rule Ten:
Be afraid. Be very afraid. It takes very little for me to mistake the sound of your car in the driveway for a chopper coming in over a rice paddy near Hanoi. When my Agent Orange starts acting up, the voices in my head frequently tell me to clean the guns as I wait for you to bring my daughter home. As soon as you pull into the driveway you should exit the car with both hands in plain sight. Speak the perimeter password, announce in a clear voice that you have brought my daughter home safely and early, then return to your car - there is no need for you to come inside. The camouflaged face at the window is mine.
But, before you even think of dating my daughter, you'll have to fill out the Application for Permission to Date My Daughter.

Application for Permission to Date My Daughter

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


APPLICATION FOR PERMISSION TO DATE MY DAUGHTER

NOTE: This application will be incomplete and rejected unless
accompanied by a complete financial statement, job history, lineage,
and current medical report from your doctor.

NAME_____________________________________ DATE OF BIRTH_____________

HEIGHT___________ WEIGHT____________ IQ__________ GPA_____________

SOCIAL SECURITY #_________________ DRIVERS LICENSE #________________

BOY SCOUT RANK AND BADGES____________________________________________

HOME ADDRESS_______________________ CITY/STATE___________ ZIP______

Do you have parents? ___Yes ___No
Is one male and the other female? ___Yes ___No
If No, explain:
______________________________________________________________

Number of years they have been married ______________________________

If less than your age, explain
______________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________


ACCESSORIES SECTION:

A. Do you own or have access to a van? __Yes __No

B. A truck with oversized tires? __Yes __No

C. A waterbed? __Yes __No

D. A pickup with a mattress in the back? __Yes __No

E. A tattoo? __Yes __No

F. Do you have an earring, nose ring, __Yes __No
pierced tongue, pierced cheek or a belly button ring?

(IF YOU ANSWERED "YES" TO ANY OF THE ABOVE, DISCONTINUE APPLICATION
AND LEAVE PREMISES IMMEDIATELY. I SUGGEST RUNNING.)


ESSAY SECTION:

In 50 words or less, what does "LATE" mean to you?

______________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________

In 50 words or less, what does "DON'T TOUCH MY DAUGHTER" mean to you?

______________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________

In 50 words or less, what does "ABSTINENCE" mean to you?

______________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________


REFERENCES SECTION:

Church you attend ___________________________________________________

How often you attend ________________________________________________

When would be the best time to interview your:

father? _____________

mother? _____________

pastor? _____________


SHORT-ANSWER SECTION:

Answer by filling in the blank. Please answer freely, all answers
are confidential.

A: If I were shot, the last place I would want shot would be:

______________________________________________________________

B: If I were beaten, the last bone I would want broken is my:

______________________________________________________________

C: A woman's place is in the:

______________________________________________________________

D: The one thing I hope this application does not ask me about is:

______________________________________________________________

E. What do you want to do IF you grow up? ___________________________

______________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________

F. When I meet a girl, the thing I always notice about her first is:

______________________________________________________________

F. What is the current going rate of a hotel room? __________________

I SWEAR THAT ALL INFORMATION SUPPLIED ABOVE IS TRUE AND CORRECT TO
THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE UNDER PENALTY OF DEATH, DISMEMBERMENT,
NATIVE AMERICAN ANT TORTURE, CRUCIFIXION, ELECTROCUTION, CHINESE
WATER TORTURE, RED HOT POKERS, AND HILLARY CLINTON KISS TORTURE.


_________________________________________________________
Applicant's Signature (that means sign your name, moron!)


_______________________________ ________________________________
Mother's Signature Father's Signature

_______________________________ ________________________________
Pastor/Priest/Rabbi State Representative/Congressman

Thank you for your interest, and it had better be genuine and
non-sexual. Please allow four to six years for processing.

You will be contacted in writing if you are approved. Please do
not try to call or write (since you probably can't, and it would
cause you injury). If your application is rejected, you will be
notified by two gentleman wearing white ties carrying violin cases.
(you might watch your back)

On a more serious note, this whole thread makes me glad we live in a small town. There aren't really any boys that our DDs know that we don't also know, not only them but also their parents (and in most cases, DH went to school with their parents from K-12) so the whole interview/application thing is a moot point.

By the time they go off to college, and meet people we don't know, they will hopefully know how to choose wisely, or at least not stupidly - lol. (and DD15 will be one of those 17 year old freshmen - she won't turn 18 until about a month after college starts. I was the same way. Birthdays right at the cut-off. DD13 on the other hand will be almost 19. Just the way the birthday cut-off works out)

 

[NHdisneylover]

That is one thing we will NEVER discuss with dates. If a date knows our child has to be home at midnight or whatnot and our child wants to come home at 10:00, that puts our child in a tough situation. We have also given our kids to use us as an excuse for ANY situation they want to get out of--"my parents are so lame, they won't let me go there", or whatever. We also have a "code" set up if they are in an uncomfortable situation and need us to come get them. They simply call us and tell us they are not feeling well or they are sick and we will pick them up. That gives them a safe out if someone is in the room with them or whatever. We haven't ever had to use either of these but they know they are there if they do.

I think that is a great approach I never had a curfew as a teen (or many rules at all; I did not need them) but most of my friends thought I did because it made it "easy" for me to get home when I wanted to I make sure my kids know they can use me or DH as outs any time they want/need to as well.

I really don't think that the movie even portrayed it this way. Yes, I saw the movie. In the movie, the daughter was 15 and the boy in question was 17. He was also running with a gang. The father was a cop. The parents were protecting their girl. 'Nuff said.

I think you're being a little dramatic with your understanding of this. It isn't about grilling a boy about his marriage potential. It is about making sure that the boy understands that he needs to respect the daughter, that the daughter has parents who are involved and care about her, that the family has a specific value system, and that was really about the extent of it. I see no problem in relaying those type of things to a date. I have sons, and I would expect the parents of the girls they date to show some interest and protect their daughters. I don't want my boys to be beaten down, but I certainly have no problem with the girls parents making sure that my boys know how to treat girls.

See, here is a key difference in our thinking. I try very hard to raise children (both my son and my daughter) who respect themselves and expect respectful treatment from friends and eventually dates (and also give it). I am not raising my daughter to feel she is too fragile to get that respect on her own, or make decisions about men/boys on her own any more than I raised my son that way. To an extent (and it lessens constantly as they age), as a parent I of course have to watch out for and protect my kids. However, at no point have I ever felt more compelled to protect my DD than my DS just because of their genders and at no point would I ever, EVER send the message to either of my kids that women need more protecting than men. Both of my kids know I am interested in their lives, both know they can come to me with any issues or problems and I will help them to the best of my abilities, both know they are good people who are deserving of respect and love from whomever they chose to be with, both know they have every right to stand up for themselves if needed, etc. BOTH. The boy and the girl.

Probably this is the fundamental difference in us. I truly do not believe that women are in any way in need of being taken care of by men beyond the idea that people who love each other take care of each other (regardless of gender). Nor do I believe that men or boys are the only "bad" apples out there, the only ones who might be tempted to do inappropriate things or the ones who get to make all the decisions and then take all the blame if something goes wrong.

All the "talking to the date" in the world really isn't going to make him respect anyone's daughter. Sometimes the guys that seem the nicest to parents are the ones that are the worst when he and the girl are alone.

When I say that we will let him know what we expect, its not so much about sitting him down and talking to him, its more about our actions and what we say to our daughter.

The one that has to demand that kind of respect from a boy is the girl, not the parents. And its something that has to be taught well before she goes on that first date.

Well said

I'm not talking about "demanding". I'm talking about a parent saying "This is my baby. Take care of her. We are trusting you that you will respect her." If the boy is so disrespectful to not listen to the parents and then follow through with appropriate behavior, then maybe the daughter shouldn't be dating him. And I do agree with you that both boy and girl need to be taught respect before anyone even considers dating, but it's not a bad thing to reinforce your expectations at the door!

Again, in my house the idea is that my DD and my DS can take care of themselves. Yes, I do hope no one ever hurts them (but, honestly, heartbreak is generally part and parcel with growing up), but the whole "take care of her" thing seems to imply a lack of ability and culpability on the part of a daughter that I am very uncomfortable with.

What exactly are parents looking for when they ask this question? I'm not directing that at you LuvsJack, just using your post to provide the quote. The actual intentions I had with anyone I dated in high school and what I would tell their father (or mother) is definitely not the same.

Hello Eddie Haskell
You are right of course; so all the parents can know is who is good at playing the game (or who does their DD like enough to have coached really well)

************* amongst teenagers isn't really a part of the social structure here. Teenagers typically attend youth group activities together as a group, with some couples pairing up to sit together, eat together, etc. But you aren't really alone on a solo date as teenagers.

I would honestly prefer that sort of thing for my children. Group activities and couples parties or group dates. (A girlfriend of mine had a couples party for her sweet 16. I think her older brother and I went as "friends" or it might have been my now DH as "friends".)

There's no grilling necessary really. I expect to know about any of my children's dates ahead of time. I expect they'll tell me about the people they are interested in dating. I don't need to grill your kid. I'll be grilling mine!

In all seriousness, what I want and what really happens may be two different things. And I've got a long way to go. My DS12 is not yet interested in girls and is still of the "Girls are gross!", "I'm never getting married and having kids!" mindset. I hope that he'll come to me with something along the lines of "Mom, you know I've been hanging around Jane. I think I really like her. etc, etc"

I am curious, does "youth group activities" refer to something other than a church sponsored group (I have only hear it refer to religious things but maybe there are others) Otherwise I am simply not seeing how that can really encompass and include ALL the local kids. I have never lived anywhere where EVERYONE is in the same church. There are always those who are different. How do those kids date or meet people? What is the norm for them?

 

[leagirl12]

I think another posted asked this, but I didn't see your reply (sorry if I missed it) but why the double standard? In other words you want "more than an introduction" to someone your dd dates, but no mention of even meeting the girls your son dates? Of course I understand wanting to know who your kids are hanging around with/dating, so why don't you want to get to know your son's date as well?

Your right. We do have to figure out how we will approach this with our son as well. At this point I don't know how we will do with either of our kids. Just trying to figure it out right now, which is why I started this thread. Of course I had no idea it would turn into 13 pages...WOW!

Luckily we have some time to figure it out and will be taking some opinions from this thread into consideration...the good with the bad.

 

[luvsJack]

Your right. We do have to figure out how we will approach this with our son as well. At this point I don't know how we will do with either of our kids. Just trying to figure it out right now, which is why I started this thread. Of course I had no idea it would turn into 13 pages...WOW!

Luckily we have some time to figure it out and will be taking some opinions from this thread into consideration...the good with the bad.

Not sure of your kids' school situation but one thing that is helpful for us is that I am active enough in things at the school that I now most of the kids that my kids know. Also, when my sons were in junior high and now with dd, we take the kids places, invite them over, etc. so that we become acquainted with most of them BEFORE the actual dating commences--but then my kids go to school with mostly the same kids from K-12 (two different schools).

And like I said before, the most important thing is what you teach YOUR kids. A teen boy or girl can stand in front of you and tell you anything under the sun, look how you want them to look, etc. and be a totally different person when your door closes. Heck my adult son had an ex-wife that did that very thing.

Dd is 3 years from getting in the car with a boy, but I already talk to her about "dating material" and how she should expect to be treated.

If you try to make the dating rules too strict, you end up with a kid trying to sneak around behind your back. If having to bring him home to meet the parents embarrasses her, she will think of ways to date without you knowing about it. I remember how many times my friends were "going out with the girls" on the weekend only to meet up with the local thug up the street.

There is nothing wrong with a little "word of warning" to the boy as they go out the door, just don't make it some long drawn out thing that your daughter will rebel against.

And no matter what anyone says, its a bit different with boys. HE is the one going to pick up the girl. Hard to meet her beforehand that way.

 

[marcyinPA]

I think that is a great approach I never had a curfew as a teen (or many rules at all; I did not need them) but most of my friends thought I did because it made it "easy" for me to get home when I wanted to I make sure my kids know they can use me or DH as outs any time they want/need to as well.

See, here is a key difference in our thinking. I try very hard to raise children (both my son and my daughter) who respect themselves and expect respectful treatment from friends and eventually dates (and also give it). I am not raising my daughter to feel she is too fragile to get that respect on her own, or make decisions about men/boys on her own any more than I raised my son that way. To an extent (and it lessens constantly as they age), as a parent I of course have to watch out for and protect my kids. However, at no point have I ever felt more compelled to protect my DD than my DS just because of their genders and at no point would I ever, EVER send the message to either of my kids that women need more protecting than men. Both of my kids know I am interested in their lives, both know they can come to me with any issues or problems and I will help them to the best of my abilities, both know they are good people who are deserving of respect and love from whomever they chose to be with, both know they have every right to stand up for themselves if needed, etc. BOTH. The boy and the girl.

Probably this is the fundamental difference in us. I truly do not believe that women are in any way in need of being taken care of by men beyond the idea that people who love each other take care of each other (regardless of gender). Nor do I believe that men or boys are the only "bad" apples out there, the only ones who might be tempted to do inappropriate things or the ones who get to make all the decisions and then take all the blame if something goes wrong.


Well said

Again, in my house the idea is that my DD and my DS can take care of themselves. Yes, I do hope no one ever hurts them (but, honestly, heartbreak is generally part and parcel with growing up), but the whole "take care of her" thing seems to imply a lack of ability and culpability on the part of a daughter that I am very uncomfortable with.

Hello Eddie Haskell
You are right of course; so all the parents can know is who is good at playing the game (or who does their DD like enough to have coached really well)

I am curious, does "youth group activities" refer to something other than a church sponsored group (I have only hear it refer to religious things but maybe there are others) Otherwise I am simply not seeing how that can really encompass and include ALL the local kids. I have never lived anywhere where EVERYONE is in the same church. There are always those who are different. How do those kids date or meet people? What is the norm for them?

I'm responding to what you quoted from me. I am not gender biased. I was using examples from the movie. I also have boys, and not girls, so I was relating what I said to myself. I would expect that parents of girls would have a similar talk. BUT- as I see dating, at least around here: The boy picks up the girl, drives the girl in his car- parents of girl (and boys parents) expect boy to be safe- in all ways. I find it interesting that this is offensive to you. I don't find it offensive AT ALL. Parents of girl should be empowering her to be ready in any situation, to be able to say NO, to defend herself, etc. I've taught my boys the same thing- don't let any girls pressure you to do more than you want to, AND YOU respect the girl too. I don't see where weak/strong comes in to play.

I've seen my way work out just fine, so I know I'm not crazy. I hope your way works too.

ETA: I've also taught my boys to open doors for girls, to be gentlemen. Are you uncomfortable with this too?? Because I seriously find this type of stuff lacking into today's world.

 

[golfgal]

I'm responding to what you quoted from me. I am not gender biased. I was using examples from the movie. I also have boys, and not girls, so I was relating what I said to myself. I would expect that parents of girls would have a similar talk. BUT- as I see dating, at least around here: The boy picks up the girl, drives the girl in his car- parents of girl (and boys parents) expect boy to be safe- in all ways. I find it interesting that this is offensive to you. I don't find it offensive AT ALL. Parents of girl should be empowering her to be ready in any situation, to be able to say NO, to defend herself, etc. I've taught my boys the same thing- don't let any girls pressure you to do more than you want to, AND YOU respect the girl too. I don't see where weak/strong comes in to play.

I've seen my way work out just fine, so I know I'm not crazy. I hope your way works too.

Yep, and we have empowered our DD by letting her make her OWN friend choices from toddlerhood on up. She has had a lot of practice at it now and can pick her boyfriends all by herself without us having to "approve" of them. We don't know all of her girlfriends and we don't expect to meet every one of her boyfriends--same goes with our boys. DD has a couple girlfriends that she won't get into a car with because they are terrible drivers. She figured that out all on her own. We don't need to do that for her. Again, same with our boys.

DD had a boy that was expressing interest in dating her last year. He, for the most part, is a nice kid, however, he is a huge flirt and was really leading DD on. She put a stop to that VERY quickly. He was doing the same thing again this year, again, she pretty much told him to knock it off, wasn't interested. They are still friends though.

She was dating a boy for several months last year and it kind of fizzled out early in the summer. Neither of them really made an effort to "officially" break it off. She did say something about sending him a text and we DID put a stop to that right away. We told her if she is old enough to date, she is old enough to break up in person. She did go over to his house and break up with him. We told her if she EVER broke up with someone via text, email or phone, she would be grounded.

 

[lurkernj]

Wow, this has sure been an entertaining read.

I have two teenage DS, 16 and 13. My 16 year old has had three girlfriends over the past two years, and while there is no interrogation, they have been invited over for pizza or something casual so we could get to know them, and he has gone to their homes as well. One I didn't particularly like, seemed snotty, but I didn't say anything, and it lasted all of three weeks.

I have had conversations with him about dating that basically it's to find what qualities you like about someone, so you can later decide what kind of person you want to be with. I'm sure there is something about each of the girls he has dated that he liked or he wouldn't have dated them in the first place. There were probably things he didn't like also, which is why hes currently single.

I also purchased him a box of condoms for his 16th birthday this year. He laughed and said he doesn't need them. I told him they don't expire for three years, and when he did need them I wanted to make sure he is prepared. For the record he's a good Christian boy, but I have no disillusions about teenage boys and sex.

 

[Hutchy]

For you, which is fine. You can't apply your way to everyone, though.

I was engaged when I was a senior in high school to my now-husband after dating for a couple of years. We've now been married for 21 years, and it has been wonderful. I know there are lots of people (including here on the DIS) who did happen to find real, true, long-lasting love while still in high school.

Neither the route you took, nor the route they took, is superior or inferior.

I also married my high school sweetheart, we started dating when we were 16 but I had no intentions of marrying him when we started dating! I liked him and thought he was cute and things progressed. I don't think the poster is saying that people that date in HS shouldn't end up married but for the *majority* of people HS romances are short lived and fun.

My parent's weren't strict but that's because they had raised me with the values that they wanted me to have. I only briefly dated 1 guy they didn't like but they didn't say much about it and still let me do stuff with his family and he spent time with my family. I've always been very close with my family so my BF's spent plenty of time around my parents and also knew their expectations because I happened to date people with similar upbringing. I guess had I (or my brother) been rebellious or on the wilder side my parents would have handled things differently but that wasn't a problem.

 

[Scurvy]

Personally, I care a LOT more about what type of person someone is than in what God they do or do not believe in. I have no creeps in a myriad or religions as well as really nice people in a myriad of them. For me and my own belief system, someone who is not willing to consider a person with a differing faith as worthy of their time or love is probably someone who is not someone I would ever want my child to be with anyway (but I will not restrict my child from dating them). I would hope my children grow to date and love people who care about the person more than about what church they walk into on Sundays (or Saturdays, or whenever). I guess we just want radically different things for our children--which is okay; makes the world a more interesting place

I was looking back over this thread today and the bolded jumped out at me. I think you are misinterpreting the motivation of many people who would not want to date or marry (or would hope that their kids won't date or marry) someone who doesn't share their faith. For many people, it isn't a matter of considering someone of a different faith as being unworthy of their time or love. For many people, their faith is a huge part of their lives, and they want the person they share their life with to share that faith. And it isn't just a matter of religious beliefs, either. For many people, going to religious services together is a weekly event. Observing religious holidays as a family is something they look forward to. Some aspects of their religion could be an important part of their daily lives. For many people, they consider their faith to be a big part of who they are. When something like that is important to you, why would you intentionally choose to share your life with someone with whom you won't be sharing those things?

Leaving religion out of it - imagine Susie is a vegetarian trying to choose between two people that she could potentially spend the rest of her life with. One is a vegetarian and the other eats mostly meat. Don't you think the vegetarian would seem to be the better choice for Susie? They could potentially end up eating many, many meals together, and it's understandable that Susie would rather share all those meals with someone who isn't going to be eating meat. Susie could still think the meat eater is a wonderful person. They could end up great friends. But there's a significant enough difference in how they want to live their lives that it wouldn't work well for them to decide to share a life and home.

Obviously many people on this thread view dating as something that is completely separate from marriage, and that's fine. But many other people view it is something that could potentially lead to marriage. And that's fine too. Neither view is better than the other; they are just different. If Susie sees dating as something akin to hanging out with friends, of course she isn't going to worry about whether she's willing to share a kitchen with Bob the meat eater for the next 50 years before she decides whether to start dating him. But if Susie sees dating as a something that could lead to her wanting to spend the rest of her life with Bob, it's understandable that she might not want to start that process when she knows she doesn't want to ever share a kitchen with him. If she believes that dating could to lead to falling in love and wanting to share a life with someone, then why start dating someone she already knows she'd have a difficult future with? It makes more sense for her to find someone who shares that core value with her.

 

[LittlePinkDot]

I hope that he'll come to me with something along the lines of "Mom, you know I've been hanging around Jane. I think I really like her. etc, etc"

"And she is Jewish!"

What would you say?

Just curious.

 

[Coconut36]

I was looking back over this thread today and the bolded jumped out at me. I think you are misinterpreting the motivation of many people who would not want to date or marry (or would hope that their kids won't date or marry) someone who doesn't share their faith. For many people, it isn't a matter of considering someone of a different faith as being unworthy of their time or love. For many people, their faith is a huge part of their lives, and they want the person they share their life with to share that faith. And it isn't just a matter of religious beliefs, either. For many people, going to religious services together is a weekly event. Observing religious holidays as a family is something they look forward to. Some aspects of their religion could be an important part of their daily lives. For many people, they consider their faith to be a big part of who they are. When something like that is important to you, why would you intentionally choose to share your life with someone with whom you won't be sharing those things?

Leaving religion out of it - imagine Susie is a vegetarian trying to choose between two people that she could potentially spend the rest of her life with. One is a vegetarian and the other eats mostly meat. Don't you think the vegetarian would seem to be the better choice for Susie? They could potentially end up eating many, many meals together, and it's understandable that Susie would rather share all those meals with someone who isn't going to be eating meat. Susie could still think the meat eater is a wonderful person. They could end up great friends. But there's a significant enough difference in how they want to live their lives that it wouldn't work well for them to decide to share a life and home.

Obviously many people on this thread view dating as something that is completely separate from marriage, and that's fine. But many other people view it is something that could potentially lead to marriage. And that's fine too. Neither view is better than the other; they are just different. If Susie sees dating as something akin to hanging out with friends, of course she isn't going to worry about whether she's willing to share a kitchen with Bob the meat eater for the next 50 years before she decides whether to start dating him. But if Susie sees dating as a something that could lead to her wanting to spend the rest of her life with Bob, it's understandable that she might not want to start that process when she knows she doesn't want to ever share a kitchen with him. If she believes that dating could to lead to falling in love and wanting to share a life with someone, then why start dating someone she already knows she'd have a difficult future with? It makes more sense for her to find someone who shares that core value with her.

The difference here to me is that Susie hasn't gone out on a few dates with Bob and is finding issues regarding how they connect regarding religion but that Susie's parents are screening her date and presumably turning away/telling her she can't date someone of another faith. This isn't Susie saying "we aren't compatible in this regard" but someone teaching her to exclude or disregard people of different faiths.

Marriages of different faiths can work out..I can't imagine ignoring someone because of a different faith (or is an atheist) without even bothering to get to know the..my own marriage has been going on for almost 18 years (Jewish and Catholic), my parents for almost 40 years (Catholic and atheist). It's about taking a moment to get to know someone and how you guys function together rather than tossing them aside based on something like religion (because really to me that isn't a big step away from refusing to date someone of another race as well).

 

[punkin]

The difference here to me isn't that Susie has gone out on a few dates with Bob and is finding issues regarding how they connect regarding religion but that Susie's parents are screening her date and presumably turning away/telling her she can't date someone of another faith. This isn't Susie saying "we aren't compatible in this regard" but someone teaching her to exclude or disregard people of different faiths.

Marriages of different faiths can work out..I can't imagine ignoring someone because of a different faith (or is an atheist) without even bothering to get to know the..my own marriage has been going on for almost 18 years (Jewish and Catholic), my parents for almost 40 years (Catholic and atheist). It's about taking a moment to get to know someone and how you guys function together rather than tossing them aside based on something like religion (because really to me that isn't a big step away from refusing to date someone of another race as well).

I think there are two discussion going on here. One is "screening the boyfriend" and the other is "dating possible marriage partners as young as high school." I think Scurvy was addressing the second argument only.

I never "screened" DD19's boyfriends and my mother never screened mine, so I have nothing to add to that discussion, but I did date only marriageable boys and DD19 also does right now so the second discussion is of interest to me.

 

[punkin]

"And she is Jewish!"

What would you say?

Just curious.

I can definitely tell you what Jane's parents would say, but such language is inappropriate on the Dis.

 

[Coconut36]

I think there are two discussion going on here. One is "screening the boyfriend" and the other is "dating possible marriage partners as young as high school." I think Scurvy was addressing the second argument only.

I never "screened" DD19's boyfriends and my mother never screened mine, so I have nothing to add to that discussion, but I did date only marriageable boys and DD19 also does right now so the second discussion is of interest to me.

The thing is though Scurvy is also talking about religion compatibility and I am saying there is a distinct difference between saying "Bob and I can't find common ground regarding religion" after a date (or a several) and saying "I will not date Bob because he is X religion". It's one thing to decide you don't work out..another to exclude and disregard based on religion without even knowing the person. The OP implies that dates would have to disclose religious info and presumably be deemed not worthy/inappropriate based on what they say..they are just teaching Susie to grow into a person who does what I stated..disregards someone based solely on something like religion vs getting to know them and then deciding if they are compatible or not.

 

[Scurvy]

The difference here to me is that Susie hasn't gone out on a few dates with Bob and is finding issues regarding how they connect regarding religion but that Susie's parents are screening her date and presumably turning away/telling her she can't date someone of another faith. This isn't Susie saying "we aren't compatible in this regard" but someone teaching her to exclude or disregard people of different faiths.

I was only addressing NHdisneylover's comments which I quoted, not talking about parents who don't permit their children to date people with different beliefs.

The thing is though Scurvy is also talking about religion compatibility and I am saying there is a distinct difference between saying "Bob and I can't find common ground regarding religion" after a date (or a several) and saying "I will not date Bob because he is X religion". It's one thing to decide you don't work out..another to exclude and disregard based on religion without even knowing the person. The OP implies that dates would have to disclose religious info and presumably be deemed not worthy/inappropriate based on what they say..they are just teaching Susie to grow into a person who does what I stated..disregards someone based solely on something like religion vs getting to know them and then deciding if they are compatible or not.

Sure, people can have great relationships with those of different faiths. Vegetarians can spend their lives with meat eaters, too. But if something is important to you, why should you have to find the common ground to build a life on with someone who doesn't share that with you? Excluding someone from your pool of potential dates because they don't share your religious beliefs is no different than excluding someone because they don't share your beliefs about vegetarianism. It's no different than someone who is very active and loves to run and hike (like Firedancer, for example) choosing not to date someone who is a couch potato and doesn't even want to venture outside. Sure, they might have tons of other things in common but if Firedancer wants to spend a big portion of his life outside being active, and wants his future spouse to share that with him, does it make sense for him to date and marry someone who has no interest in those activities? It seems to me he'd be far more likely to choose someone who would be out there hiking with him.

We choose the people we date based on common interests and lifestyles all the time. It doesn't matter what those interests and lifestyles are, it just matters that they are important to us. I love computers and wouldn't want to live without them. I wouldn't have dated someone whose religion forbids the use of electricity or technology, even if he was a great friend who I enjoyed going hiking with all the time. Our lifestyles would have been too different to even bother trying to find a common ground to build a life on. There's no reason we would have had to - we could have remained great friends and each found people whose lives better meshed with ours to build a marriage with. For some people, religious beliefs and traditions are comparable to that. They wouldn't want to live a life with someone who can't (or won't) share those things with them, and so they use that as one major factor in determining their compatibility with a potential date. There's nothing unreasonable about that.

 

[punkin]

The thing is though Scurvy is also talking about religion compatibility and I am saying there is a distinct difference between saying "Bob and I can't find common ground regarding religion" after a date (or a several) and saying "I will not date Bob because he is X religion". It's one thing to decide you don't work out..another to exclude and disregard based on religion without even knowing the person. The OP implies that dates would have to disclose religious info and presumably be deemed not worthy/inappropriate based on what they say..they are just teaching Susie to grow into a person who does what I stated..disregards someone based solely on something like religion vs getting to know them and then deciding if they are compatible or not.

For some people (obviously not for you) religion is a core, non-negotiable value. It does not mean that the other person is bad or unworthy, just not suitable for you. That is my belief anyway.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I was only addressing NHdisneylover's comments which I quoted, not talking about parents who don't permit their children to date people with different beliefs.



Sure, people can have great relationships with those of different faiths. Vegetarians can spend their lives with meat eaters, too. But if something is important to you, why should you have to find the common ground to build a life on with someone who doesn't share that with you? Excluding someone from your pool of potential dates because they don't share your religious beliefs is no different than excluding someone because they don't share your beliefs about vegetarianism. It's no different than someone who is very active and loves to run and hike (like Firedancer, for example) choosing not to date someone who is a couch potato and doesn't even want to venture outside. Sure, they might have tons of other things in common but if Firedancer wants to spend a big portion of his life outside being active, and wants his future spouse to share that with him, does it make sense for him to date and marry someone who has no interest in those activities? It seems to me he'd be far more likely to choose someone who would be out there hiking with him.

We choose the people we date based on common interests and lifestyles all the time. It doesn't matter what those interests and lifestyles are, it just matters that they are important to us. I love computers and wouldn't want to live without them. I wouldn't have dated someone whose religion forbids the use of electricity or technology, even if he was a great friend who I enjoyed going hiking with all the time. Our lifestyles would have been too different to even bother trying to find a common ground to build a life on. There's no reason we would have had to - we could have remained great friends and each found people whose lives better meshed with ours to build a marriage with. For some people, religious beliefs and traditions are comparable to that. They wouldn't want to live a life with someone who can't (or won't) share those things with them, and so they use that as one major factor in determining their compatibility with a potential date. There's nothing unreasonable about that.

I think the difference being you're looking at it from an adult perspective. Kids change. What they like changes. What interest them changes. They may be religious while under their parents' roof and completely turn from their faith once outside that family home. They may not be interested much in outside activities until they meet someone who is, who introduces them to a healthy lifestyle. Why should children limit themselves to a certain group of people? Most people at 15-16 are not the people they will become as adults. I wonder how many kids ever thought about the military until 9/11 happened? Now some have made a career out of it. Events change and shape the people we will become. To me this is like saying "I'm a Democrat and I could NEVER marry a Republican." Is that really the only thing you see about that person -- their politics? To me it's just

 

[LittlePinkDot]

For some people (obviously not for you) religion is a core, non-negotiable value. It does not mean that the other person is bad or unworthy, just not suitable for you. That is my belief anyway.

But what if your 17 year old believes differently?

If your child wants to date a super nice, honest, fun, cute peer, but they are not the same religion, what does it matter to the parent?

If your child makes it to 17 and has NOT jumped on the "Religious background is a deal breaker for my choice of a date" you're not going to change their mind.

 

[punkin]

I think the difference being you're looking at it from an adult perspective. Kids change. What they like changes. What interest them changes. They may be religious while under their parents' roof and completely turn from their faith once outside that family home. They may not be interested much in outside activities until they meet someone who is, who introduces them to a healthy lifestyle. Why should children limit themselves to a certain group of people? Most people at 15-16 are not the people they will become as adults. I wonder how many kids ever thought about the military until 9/11 happened? Now some have made a career out of it. Events change and shape the people we will become. To me this is like saying "I'm a Democrat and I could NEVER marry a Republican." Is that really the only thing you see about that person -- their politics? To me it's just

My political affiliation (while important to me) does not constitute a "core" belief. I can change my mind about issues and maybe decide to vote for another party. My religion is a part of my identity. I could never change it without changing who and what I am. Some people don't see religion that way and they can date outside their religion. Some people view politics that way and they cannot date someone from a different political party.