Dating questions after seeing Courageous.

[marcyinPA]

So I am curious for those of you who think dating only within their religion (for example) if your child did bring home a date that was not your same religion, what would you do?

Or do you just tell your kids they can only date someone within your religion?

Ok, I'll bite.

We are Christian. Presbyterian to be exact. Both kids were raised in the church. Both kids are UBER-involved in youth groups, mission trips, summer camp, community service. We didn't force them- they actually LIKE it! *gasp*

My DS16 has friends of all different religions. One of his best friends is Buddhist. Actually, a couple of his good friends are Buddhist. I have NEVER told my son he had to date only Christian girls. We have talked, though, openly, about how it is easier on a marriage when people who are very active in their faith, have similar beliefs. But I've never said "Son, when you get married, you can only marry a Christian girl".

My feeling is that my son will fall in love with a Christian girl, though, because his faith is the biggest part of who he is. Not because I want it to be, but because he wants it to be. We are actually looking at colleges now, and he wants to see two Christian colleges here in PA, and has been tossing around the idea of becoming a youth pastor. To be honest with you, I want him to major in something like English, or Communications, or Psychology, and then he can go to seminary if he wants.

And just because I know that some of you are probably thinking my son is a weirdo....he is actually a really fun kid! He has a lot of friends, both from church and public school. He is involved in all kinds of stuff, he likes music and movies and going out with his friends and parties. Just because he has core Christian beliefs does not mean that he can't have fun and just be a normal kid!

 

[Uncle Remus]

Strawman arguments are just so much easier to make fun of. That's all.

I'm sure I read that some folks wouldn't date anyone they wouldn't marry, course, my folks weren't allowed to marry back when I was a kid so hell, what do I know?

I will say this, if my KID sez he's gonna get married to the GIRL he's datin' at age 16, all HELL is gonna break out at my house. Yes, that's my religious belief!

 

[punkin]

I'm sure I read that some folks wouldn't date anyone they wouldn't marry, course, my folks weren't allowed to marry back when I was a kid so hell, what do I know?

I will say this, if my KID sez he's gonna get married to the GIRL he's datin' at age 16, all HELL is gonna break out at my house. Yes, that's my religious belief!

I suppose that's pretty much what happened at my MIL's house when DH was 17.

 

[Nancyg56]

OK, don't indoctrinate your children then. Let them make their own decisions about everything. I have no objections to you raising you children your way. I will raise mine in my own way.

I believe that there is a difference between giving your children the tools to make good sound decisions when they are not with you and "indoctrinating" them with all of your own beliefs. I think that a parent needs to provide a good solid foundation so that when their children are away from home they make good choices. There will always be a circumstance that is "gray" and if I do my job right my child will be able to form his or her own opinion of what is right. I think I am trying to say that blind obedience is not always going to work so it is better to teach your kids to think on their won.

Personally I don't care what anyone else's criteria is, it isn't my business. I just hope parents don't think that trying to force restrictive rules on their kid and who they date will really change much. It will often just make your (general your) kid go behind your back because they want to go out on a date with someone they know their parent's wouldn't approve of for whatever reason. I also find the notion that you are going to "weed" out bad apples a bit laughable. I went out with plenty of girls in high school I had only one intention with but I could sit there and talk to their parents all day about whatever they wanted if that is what it took to get there.

I never agree with you so I am right now I was thinking the same thing. I may be an old gal now but back in my teen years my Mom was a "my way or the highway" Mom. She thought that I should think the way she did and want what she wanted. It was easier to agree and then do what I wanted. When my own kids were growing up they always knew what I expected for behavior but they were not forced to maintain my own beliefs. I also agree that a date could fool a parent so I figured that I needed to instill in my kids what their choices might be and hope that they could remember the consequences of bad choices when they were out of my sight. I trusted that they could. They always had structure based on what rules we had in our home and ultimately my say was the final say but they did not have to think the way I did in order to gain my approval.

The meeting/converstation should NOT be an 'application'. Hopefully parents have instilled good values in their kids, and the kids used those values in choosing someone to date.

I hear people throw this around a lot........ "You don't need to be strict and have all sorts of rules if you raised your kids the right way." Makes me wonder. Do those of you who think this way really believe that the only kids who make bad decisions are kids whose parents didn't try to raise them right? No offense intended but, if so, you are all very naive.

I know what you are saying. I know that parents want the best for their kids and try to "raise them right". What I am saying is that once my children were out of my sight I had no control over them. I needed to give them tools to think through their actions and make their own decisions when they were with their friends. Did they always make the appropriate choice? No. But I thought that the difference between acting as though I could control them and how they behaved based on my own beliefs would backfire and so I let them form their own decisions in a lot of things.

I am not naive but I chose to treat my children s dates in HS as just dates. Not long-term commitments. And then I told them that they needed to think long and hard about what they did once they were alone because their date could be a long term commitment if they made a foolish choice. ANd then I just hoped for the best.

 

[punkin]

I believe that there is a difference between giving your children the tools to make good sound decisions when they are not with you and "indoctrinating" them with all of your own beliefs. I think that a parent needs to provide a good solid foundation so that when their children are away from home they make good choices. There will always be a circumstance that is "gray" and if I do my job right my child will be able to form his or her own opinion of what is right. I think I am trying to say that blind obedience is not always going to work so it is better to teach your kids to think on their won.




I never agree with you so I am right now I was thinking the same thing. I may be an old gal now but back in my teen years my Mom was a "my way or the highway" Mom. She thought that I should think the way she did and want what she wanted. It was easier to agree and then do what I wanted. When my own kids were growing up they always knew what I expected for behavior but they were not forced to maintain my own beliefs. I also agree that a date could fool a parent so I figured that I needed to instill in my kids what their choices might be and hope that they could remember the consequences of bad choices when they were out of my sight. I trusted that they could. They always had structure based on what rules we had in our home and ultimately my say was the final say but they did not have to think the way I did in order to gain my approval.







I know what you are saying. I know that parents want the best for their kids and try to "raise them right". What I am saying is that once my children were out of my sight I had no control over them. I needed to give them tools to think through their actions and make their own decisions when they were with their friends. Did they always make the appropriate choice? No. But I thought that the difference between acting as though I could control them and how they behaved based on my own beliefs would backfire and so I let them form their own decisions in a lot of things.

I am not naive but I chose to treat my children s dates in HS as just dates. Not long-term commitments. And then I told them that they needed to think long and hard about what they did once they were alone because their date could be a long term commitment if they made a foolish choice. ANd then I just hoped for the best.

I absolutely agree with you on everything I have bolded. Maybe my use of "indoctrination" was a bit facetious in and response to things that shouldn't annoy me but do.

 

[FireDancer]

I never agree with you so I am right now

No worries, that is a very large club that never needs a membership drive.

 

[Coconut36]

I am glad my parents raised me to think for myself and choose to surround myself with kind, honest, loving people.

I am glad religion was never mentioned in that list above, or else Catholic Girl wouldn't be very happily married to the most amazing Jewish Boy for 23 (almost 24) years

Same for this Catholic Girl and her Jewish Guy (almost 18 years here)

 

[luvsJack]

Well, hmmmpf. When I quoted grandma, I was just thinking along the lines of don't date the town drunk or the local drug dealer.

Never thought about religion.

I am Christian, as is dd. She is active in the church youth activities but if she dates a young man who isn't Christian, well as long as he is good to her and treats her like the princess that she is, all will be good.



Younger ds and his wife were raised very differently. He was raised in church and is a Christian, she is not a believer but has lots of questions and is willing to listen to anyone's pov and beliefs as long as they are willing to listen to hers. They are best friends. He could have never, ever picked anyone more compatible for him. She allows us to take her children to church and participates in the children's activities. She wants her children to make their own decision on the matter, just as we do. If he had made religion a huge factor in his choice of someone to date, he would have missed out on this wonderful girl that we all love so much.

 

[NeverlandClub23]

I hear people throw this around a lot........ "You don't need to be strict and have all sorts of rules if you raised your kids the right way." Makes me wonder. Do those of you who think this way really believe that the only kids who make bad decisions are kids whose parents didn't try to raise them right? No offense intended but, if so, you are all very naive.

I completely agree (I hear this a lot too, online and IRL). I was a handful to my parents through my teen years (even with their rules), but it was mostly my headstrong attitude. I was raised to act better than I did and I was grounded and punished A LOT back then (never for anything serious, i.e. drinking, drugs, partying). I just thought I was fighting a Me vs. The Parents war that I would die fighting. My brother was a lot easier through his teenage years than I was. Good parenting only goes so far...

 

[NHdisneylover]

I'm responding to what you quoted from me. I am not gender biased. I was using examples from the movie. I also have boys, and not girls, so I was relating what I said to myself. I would expect that parents of girls would have a similar talk. BUT- as I see dating, at least around here: The boy picks up the girl, drives the girl in his car- parents of girl (and boys parents) expect boy to be safe- in all ways. I find it interesting that this is offensive to you. I don't find it offensive AT ALL. Parents of girl should be empowering her to be ready in any situation, to be able to say NO, to defend herself, etc. I've taught my boys the same thing- don't let any girls pressure you to do more than you want to, AND YOU respect the girl too. I don't see where weak/strong comes in to play.

I've seen my way work out just fine, so I know I'm not crazy. I hope your way works too.

ETA: I've also taught my boys to open doors for girls, to be gentlemen. Are you uncomfortable with this too?? Because I seriously find this type of stuff lacking into today's world.

"This is my baby. Take care of her. We are trusting you that you will respect her."
So you would really say the above (but change the her to him) to a girl who was going out to with your son? If so, then I guess it is kind of okay, but I still think it is "off." I tell babysitters or other adults in charge to take care of my kids. I may even tell my kids and their peers to take care of each other--but never would I tell a peer of my child to simply take care of my child. I DO find that wrong and offensive and to be truthful I see it happen with boys being told to take care of girls and not the other way around, which is where I really dislike it.

and, no I do not have an issue with boys holding doors and being "gentlemen." In fact, 50 Things Every Young Gentleman Should Know was actually one of my son's favourite books for years I teach my DD that while we all know that she is perfectly capable of opening the door, it is a sweet gesture that is simply a hold over from a bygone era and to be gracious if someone does (and teach my son that it is a sweet and nice thing to do so please do so). Then again, she often holds doors for elders, those with their hands full, etc too.

I was looking back over this thread today and the bolded jumped out at me. I think you are misinterpreting the motivation of many people who would not want to date or marry (or would hope that their kids won't date or marry) someone who doesn't share their faith. For many people, it isn't a matter of considering someone of a different faith as being unworthy of their time or love. For many people, their faith is a huge part of their lives, and they want the person they share their life with to share that faith. And it isn't just a matter of religious beliefs, either. For many people, going to religious services together is a weekly event. Observing religious holidays as a family is something they look forward to. Some aspects of their religion could be an important part of their daily lives. For many people, they consider their faith to be a big part of who they are. When something like that is important to you, why would you intentionally choose to share your life with someone with whom you won't be sharing those things?

Leaving religion out of it - imagine Susie is a vegetarian trying to choose between two people that she could potentially spend the rest of her life with. One is a vegetarian and the other eats mostly meat. Don't you think the vegetarian would seem to be the better choice for Susie? They could potentially end up eating many, many meals together, and it's understandable that Susie would rather share all those meals with someone who isn't going to be eating meat. Susie could still think the meat eater is a wonderful person. They could end up great friends. But there's a significant enough difference in how they want to live their lives that it wouldn't work well for them to decide to share a life and home.

Obviously many people on this thread view dating as something that is completely separate from marriage, and that's fine. But many other people view it is something that could potentially lead to marriage. And that's fine too. Neither view is better than the other; they are just different. If Susie sees dating as something akin to hanging out with friends, of course she isn't going to worry about whether she's willing to share a kitchen with Bob the meat eater for the next 50 years before she decides whether to start dating him. But if Susie sees dating as a something that could lead to her wanting to spend the rest of her life with Bob, it's understandable that she might not want to start that process when she knows she doesn't want to ever share a kitchen with him. If she believes that dating could to lead to falling in love and wanting to share a life with someone, then why start dating someone she already knows she'd have a difficult future with? It makes more sense for her to find someone who shares that core value with her.

To each their own. I don't think I am misunderstanding. Your faith is such a big deal to you (general you, those who would never date outside of it) that you are not open at all to loving someone who cannot share it with you to the level you have it. I mean, people can go to a church that does not represent their faith just to learn about their partner's faith and spend time together. They can celebrate holidays together, etc.
Oh, and funny you chose your other example: I have happily shared meals and a kitchen with my meat eating husband for 15 years of marriage with no major issue I am sure happy I was not raised to think that dating a Catholic was not okay because I would have missed out on an amazing love and amazing and strong marraige.
Oh, and we did meet in highschool and started dating as Freshmen in college and I totally agree with PPs that your beliefs and priorities change after that age too--so just because you think you know what religion you are or what politics you have, etc doesn't mean that you will have those same beliefs later in life.

The difference here to me is that Susie hasn't gone out on a few dates with Bob and is finding issues regarding how they connect regarding religion but that Susie's parents are screening her date and presumably turning away/telling her she can't date someone of another faith. This isn't Susie saying "we aren't compatible in this regard" but someone teaching her to exclude or disregard people of different faiths.

Marriages of different faiths can work out..I can't imagine ignoring someone because of a different faith (or is an atheist) without even bothering to get to know the..my own marriage has been going on for almost 18 years (Jewish and Catholic), my parents for almost 40 years (Catholic and atheist). It's about taking a moment to get to know someone and how you guys function together rather than tossing them aside based on something like religion (because really to me that isn't a big step away from refusing to date someone of another race as well).

Well said

I think the difference being you're looking at it from an adult perspective. Kids change. What they like changes. What interest them changes. They may be religious while under their parents' roof and completely turn from their faith once outside that family home. They may not be interested much in outside activities until they meet someone who is, who introduces them to a healthy lifestyle. Why should children limit themselves to a certain group of people? Most people at 15-16 are not the people they will become as adults. I wonder how many kids ever thought about the military until 9/11 happened? Now some have made a career out of it. Events change and shape the people we will become. To me this is like saying "I'm a Democrat and I could NEVER marry a Republican." Is that really the only thing you see about that person -- their politics? To me it's just

Hell, I'm confused that on a board where folks predominantly get all riled up about 6-8 year olds bein' sexualized as adults, now support high school kids gettin' engaged 'n married off before they graduate!

I was thinking that too

 

[Nancyg56]

I absolutely agree with you on everything I have bolded. Maybe my use of "indoctrination" was a bit facetious in and response to things that shouldn't annoy me but do.

I figured as much. I try to remember that it is not always easy to convey thoughts well on an internet board so I generally don't get too riled up.

No worries, that is a very large club that never needs a membership drive.

 

[pacrosby]

I completely agree (I hear this a lot too, online and IRL). I was a handful to my parents through my teen years (even with their rules), but it was mostly my headstrong attitude. I was raised to act better than I did and I was grounded and punished A LOT back then (never for anything serious, i.e. drinking, drugs, partying). I just thought I was fighting a Me vs. The Parents war that I would die fighting. My brother was a lot easier through his teenage years than I was. Good parenting only goes so far...

I am my own best (perhaps the better word would be 'worst' LOL) example as well. My parents were wonderful and did their very best......but trusted too much in their 'good parenting'. I harbor a lot of guilt now. Fortunately my parents don't know the half of it.


And before someone reads too much into my words...... I'm not saying overprotect/overcontrol. But the 'set the foundation when they are young and you will have nothing to fear' camp goes way overboard in the other direction (and yes, such an approach to teenage parenting has been implied). A happy medium is usually the best bet

 

[MELSMICE]

Your dds are all in college, right? Do you still meet all their dates before they go on a date? My dds attend college too far away for me to do that! If I'm lucky I get to see a picture on facebook!

One has graduated and has a serious boyfriend and 2 are still in college. One lives home & one lives on campus.

Now that I think about it, we did not meet oldest's boyfriend on their first date. They had mutual FB friends and decided to go on a blind date together at Starbucks. They hit it off & then he came to the house & met us.

At home college DD doesn't date too much because she's so busy, but she has been on a few dates with one boy over the last few months. We happened to be at a party the night of their first date so didn't get to meet him, but oldest DD already knew him. We have since met him. Seems like a nice kid with a good head on his shoulders. Very driven. Wants to be a Dr. Seems to me that neither him or my DD are interested in anything serious because they are both so busy with school & jobs.

DD away at college......you're right, I would not be meeting a date unless she was home for the weekend. She has told me about a few guys that either she was interested in or have been interested in her.

Bottom line is that I trust my DD's to make the right choices about who they are interested in. Not to mention......this is their life, not mine.

DH & I really, really, really liked oldest's DD's first BF. He was a great guy. They dated for 5 years, all through high school & part way through college. They just were not right for each other. If they met today I'm not sure they'd date each other. Still a great guy.

Oh, and my DH has instilled this little factoid of his into their brains....."All men are scum. I'll let you know if a good one comes along!!" They are pretty cautious about who they date!

 

[Acklander]

I hear people throw this around a lot........ "You don't need to be strict and have all sorts of rules if you raised your kids the right way." Makes me wonder. Do those of you who think this way really believe that the only kids who make bad decisions are kids whose parents didn't try to raise them right? No offense intended but, if so, you are all very naive.

Not at all. As a matter of fact, I think everyone makes a few bad decisions in their life. I haven't yet met anyone who's perfect. I just think that, unless it's a health and safety issue, that it's ok to allow your kids to make mistakes. That's how they learn, grow and move forward. I've made plenty of mistakes in my life, and I wouldn't give up any of them, because they helped form the person I am today, and I like how I turned out. I appreciate that my parents allowed me some independence as I was growing up and allowed me to find my own way with just some gentle guidance. While the path I've chosen may not have been what they were expecting, it's been the perfect one for me.

 

[pacrosby]

Not at all. As a matter of fact, I think everyone makes a few bad decisions in their life. I haven't yet met anyone who's perfect. I just think that, unless it's a health and safety issue, that it's ok to allow your kids to make mistakes. That's how they learn, grow and move forward. I've made plenty of mistakes in my life, and I wouldn't give up any of them, because they helped form the person I am today, and I like how I turned out. I appreciate that my parents allowed me some independence as I was growing up and allowed me to find my own way with just some gentle guidance. While the path I've chosen may not have been what they were expecting, it's been the perfect one for me.

Can't argue with anything you've said. Not sure how you took my words to mean a parent shouldn't give their child 'any' independence though. Having some rules in place doesn't mean that a child doesn't get to make any of their own decisions. Kids have to make their own decisions every day of their lives unless their parents are sitting in their back pocket.

My point was simply that teens can't always be trusted to do the right thing regardless of the values you've instilled in them. Sometimes making mistakes is just a part of life and those mistakes act as a good learning experience. Sometimes the consequences of those mistakes can be a heck of a lot more serious. Personally I'm not the 'sit back and hope and pray' type of parent. I just think my kids deserve better than that.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Not at all. As a matter of fact, I think everyone makes a few bad decisions in their life. I haven't yet met anyone who's perfect. I just think that, unless it's a health and safety issue, that it's ok to allow your kids to make mistakes. That's how they learn, grow and move forward. I've made plenty of mistakes in my life, and I wouldn't give up any of them, because they helped form the person I am today, and I like how I turned out. I appreciate that my parents allowed me some independence as I was growing up and allowed me to find my own way with just some gentle guidance. While the path I've chosen may not have been what they were expecting, it's been the perfect one for me.

Well said

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Does this mean we've reached Kumbaya?

 

[Acklander]

Can't argue with anything you've said. Not sure how you took my words to mean a parent shouldn't give their child 'any' independence though. Having some rules in place doesn't mean that a child doesn't get to make any of their own decisions. Kids have to make their own decisions every day of their lives unless their parents are sitting in their back pocket.

My point was simply that teens can't always be trusted to do the right thing regardless of the values you've instilled in them. Sometimes making mistakes is just a part of life and those mistakes act as a good learning experience. Sometimes the consequences of those mistakes can be a heck of a lot more serious. Personally I'm not the 'sit back and hope and pray' type of parent. I just think my kids deserve better than that.

I was just responding to your comment that those that aren't strict are naive in thinking that the kids won't make mistakes. I'm not naive, I expect my kids to make mistakes. I don't just sit back and pray. Instead I chat about it, I ask open ended questions, etc. But ultimately (and the older they get, the more I do it) I rely on them to make their own decisions. Like I said, if it's health and safety, that's one thing - but interrogating prospective dates I don't consider an issue. I trust my teen's judgement.

 

[pacrosby]

Well said

It was well said but why do people always have to argue extremes. Who here said that a kid shouldn't be allowed to make 'any' decisions? Shouldn't have 'any' independence. Is there a single poster here who suggested parents should micromanage every single decision their teenager is faced with?


Maybe I just missed that post

 

[Scurvy]

I'm sure I read that some folks wouldn't date anyone they wouldn't marry, course, my folks weren't allowed to marry back when I was a kid so hell, what do I know?

I will say this, if my KID sez he's gonna get married to the GIRL he's datin' at age 16, all HELL is gonna break out at my house. Yes, that's my religious belief!

If my son came home today and said that he wanted to marry his girlfriend tomorrow, we'd be having a major problem!

But of course, you understand that dating someone who you believe you might want to marry sometime in the future is quite different from dating someone and intending to marry them right this minute.

Oh, and funny you chose your other example: I have happily shared meals and a kitchen with my meat eating husband for 15 years of marriage with no major issue

That's great! The things you did have in common obviously outweighed your differences, or those differences just weren't particularly important to you to begin with, and there's nothing at all wrong with that. Surely, though, you don't think it would be wrong for another vegetarian to decide that vegetarianism is an important factor for them and that they don't want to spend their life sharing a kitchen and eating their meals with someone who doesn't share that with them. Do you?

I guess I'm just confused - obviously you think it's wrong to choose not to date/marry someone because they don't share your religious beliefs, even if those beliefs are an important part of your life. If you want your girlfriend/boyfriend or future spouse to share the things that are important to you (especially when those things take up quite a bit of your time), then doesn't it make sense to choose to date a person who shares your interest in those things? If you have several perfectly nice people in front of you who want to date you, and you have to choose which ones to date, what would be wrong with choosing the ones who share the interests and beliefs that are most important to you?