DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[Takket]

Yeah I'm curious to see how this return to line thing works. Especially for someone with severe anxiety about being in an enclosed line, but who also needs a scooter. can't just turn those things around anywhere, and good luck slipping it by all the people in line behind you to get back out.

 

[Starwind]

I think it should definitely require some sort of actual diagnoses note/confirmation from a confirmed medical doctor or equivalent. It would be much harder to fake than just lying in an interview and would cut down on a ton of the abuse by itself.

They have spent a lot of time making sure their lines are accessible with ECVs and wheelchairs so that physical disabilities shouldn't need DAS. So it makes sense that it's just going to be cognitive/developmental disabilities that need it now.

There is an entire world of disabilities beyond cognitive/developmental disabilities and those physical disabilities which can be aided/accommodated by a wheelchair or ECV.

For example, I have some mobility issues which at Disney can be partially aided by the use of an ECV. However, I have a list of other disabilities which neither ECV nor wheelchair can do anything for.

 

[Liquidice]

If you go to the doctor with a problem, they will give you a diagnosis (or a likely diagnosis/referral to a specialist if it's complicated) If the problem someone has was never bad enough to go to a Dr for, then it may not be bad enough to qualify for a program meant for disabilities...

I know I have gone to the doctor to ask about something and their response was that they could refer me to a specialist and it would take months of tests to figure it out, or I could just live with the issue. Some issues are difficult and time consuming to diagnose.

I definitely understand how people can live with something day to day but may not be able to stand in a long line for hours.

With that said, I think I'd prefer to be required to provide a doctor's note stating that I cannot wait in a long line rather than what Disney ended up at which is no doctor's note but DAS only being available for those with a developmental disorder.

 

[Gentry2004]

I don’t have inside information but Disney has to take all of its stakeholders (including other DAS users and non-DAS park goers) and balance the accommodation options with their likelihood of exploitation and the availability of alternatives that are not as desirable for cheating/faking. A return to line pass is legally an acceptable accommodation for IBS, but also one that is less likely to inspire people to request access for themselves and several friends each time they visit. Others have speculated that they want to crack down generally on adults trying to cheat the system—and for better or worse, there are a few major, easily faked, diagnoses that they probably want to discourage (while still making acceptable but less desirable accommodations for those who need them).

This isn't going to meaningfully improve standby or LL wait times. All the posters gleefully celebrating that their standby line will now be shorter are going to be sorely disappointed. The only way to do that would be to further limit the number of people allowed into the parks each day, a la Covid.

 

[OurBigTrip]

You can’t offer accommodation based on a diagnosis it’s based on needs if your needs can be met with an alternative accommodation then they can meet your needs that way. You can’t do
Something like say only people with broken legs can use the handicapped seat at the movie theater you have to provide it for anyone with a need that requires that particular accommodation.

Yep, and Disney has decided that the needs of many current DAS users can be met with a different accommodation than the DAS.

The DAS as currently utilized is obviously disruptive to park operations. Disney already has a federal court case win saying that they don’t have to further disrupt park operations in order to provide a specific requested accommodation. No way a decision like this is made without massive legal research, and I have no doubt that Disney is on firm legal ground here.

The complaints we’re hearing today are the same complaints we heard 11 years ago when Disney eliminated the GAC - they’re gonna get sued and lose, this is illegal, etc.

How did that all turn out?

 

[PrincessNelly]

Fair enough - then just make it a rule that anyone with a DAS can’t utilize any standby line while they have a DAS return time.

Tap ins or not, they are able to read Magic Bands and tickets.

Part of the equation is to make DAS less attractive to abusers.

Eh... I've used standby when the line is 15 minutes or less for certain rides that I know are quick.
Telling someone they can't walk on idk.. Figment because they have a DAS return time booked for something else seems unrealistic. Just seems like it would backfire and hurt attraction CMs who have to police that

 

[Gentry2004]

Yep, and Disney has decided that the needs of many current DAS users can be met with a different accommodation than the DAS.

The DAS as currently utilized is obviously disruptive to park operations. Disney already has a federal court case win saying that they don’t have to further disrupt park operations in order to provide a specific requested accommodation. No way a decision like this is made without massive legal research, and I have no doubt that Disney is on firm legal ground here.

The complaints we’re hearing today are the same complaints we heard 11 years ago when Disney eliminated the GAC - they’re gonna get sued and lose, this is illegal, etc.

How did that all turn out?

Disney has never previously tried to give a disability hierarchy where they say one is more deserving of accommodation than another. When they eliminated the GAC, they reduced the accommodation for everyone equally, and the new offering, DAS, was the same for everyone. This new situation is not remotely analogous to that.

 

[JulieBeeRN]

Actually, it does in some regards, they cannot record any medical data by law. The can record specific needs, such as cannot wait in line due to crowd issues. But they can't record what causes those crowd issues, as they are not medical professionals. Now by using medical professionals, they technically can record it, but that data can't be shared to Disney and must be protected under HIPPA standards and there is a whole series of things that go into that. I doubt Disney is willing to invest the money they doing that will require.

HIPAA does not apply to Disney.

 

[LuckyMamaInDE]

Yep, and Disney has decided that the needs of many current DAS users can be met with a different accommodation than the DAS.

The DAS as currently utilized is obviously disruptive to park operations. Disney already has a federal court case win saying that they don’t have to further disrupt park operations in order to provide a specific requested accommodation. No way a decision like this is made without massive legal research, and I have no doubt that Disney is on firm legal ground here.

The complaints we’re hearing today are the same complaints we heard 11 years ago when Disney eliminated the GAC - they’re gonna get sued and lose, this is illegal, etc.

How did that all turn out?

I apologize if I missed this in all the posts from earlier today, but how often have you or a family member used DAS in the past?

 

[ryang25]

I am from the UK and believe me when I say I understand the issues that abuse of these systems can cause. It is far worse here. However, I am blessed with both T1D and ulcerative colitis along with a number of other autoimmune conditions and DAS is single-handedly the only reason I get to visit WDW.

What is so contradictory to me is that Disney constantly emphasise it is not the diagnosis that equals qualification, but the actual needs. Yet, they’ve made that redundant by now specifying the conditions that qualify. Abusers of the system will now simply change their artificial diagnosis and continue to abuse. Without asking for medical evidence, the threat of a lifetime ban is not enforceable. The real losers here are people with genuine physical issues who are now not even referenced on the accessibility pages.

I understand they plan to introduce a leave-rejoin system (which, at this point has no detail whatsoever and they really should not have announced this until that was fleshed out). It wouldn’t work for me.

I have had accidents even in lightning lanes. These accidents ruin my day, if not my entire trip. The average wait in standby is easily 5x the length of the LL queue. That’s now 5x more likely I have an accident. And that’s just with my ulcerative colitis. I had a severe hypo (low blood glucose event) waiting in the LL for Buzz and luckily had a 15 sec journey out into the park where I could sit down and my partner could help me drink my glucose sachet (essentially force-feeding it to me). This would not go well in the middle of a 2 hour queue, and how do you think I’d feel when I do start to recover knowing everyone had just watched me go through that? It’s dehumanising. Plus, limited to no seats in queues.

The process of physically getting out of a queue, finding a CM, explaining the situation (dehumanising and embarrassing), getting issued the pass, finding a toilet/spot to rest is going to lead to a bowel accident or a T1D emergency. Not to mention the anxiety and stress in these hour-several hour queues which is likely to exacerbate my symptoms. I don’t even go in the lightning lane queues if they’re too long - I am just too anxious.

Then I need my partner to help me so he would need to leave too. I would feel too uncomfortable to then both rejoin and have to push our way through to where we were (if I can even remember where that is).

The anxiety alone means I simply will not be able to visit this year now if I am not going to qualify. It sounds dramatic but I promise you I am not lying. I couldn’t face going with a queue rejoin system.

I get why they don’t insist on medical evidence but it sucks when I have an abundance of it to show I really need this system. I also do not understand how the DAS assessments with the new medical experts will work if they insist on no diagnoses being shared. ‘I can’t be in around crowds when my condition flares’ is an accurate statement for some with autism and also myself.

Please, if you feel the same, drop an email to Disney.

 

[SueM in MN]

The way I read it is that healthcare workers will be training the Disney cast members. Not that they would be the ones directly on the calls.

We don't know a lot yet, but my understanding is that the health care workers will be training the Disney CMs who are doing the screening, advising about how to provide accommodations in the parks and acting as a resource/consultant in difficult questions.

Soo it looks like my son will still qualify.. the 4 person thing is freaking my out. We stay with my parents, like same dvc rooms, fly etc... So that means one of the grandparents do not get to ride... I wish there was a way to pay for genie plus price... but then get into the system of DAS... just so the extra family members are on the system... cause it is near impossible to line up Genie + and the DAS pass for the same time.

Can't know for sure, but I think the "4 people immediate family" will be the standard, but there will still be reasonable accommodations for larger families. I haven't seen this on Disboards, but I've seen a lot of Facebook posts where people are asking for huge numbers of people, many of them not related.

The "4 immediate family" will also help get rid of "unofficial tour guides" and "influencers" who bringing large groups of unrelated people.

"If it is determined that any of the statements a Guest made in the process of obtaining DAS are not true, the Guest will be permanently barred from entering Walt Disney World Resort and the Disneyland Resort, and any previously purchased Annual Passes, Magic Key passes, tickets and other park products and services will be forfeited and not refunded."

That there is interesting. I wonder if they will actually do it.

That warning wording has actually been part of DAS since it rolled out in 2013. The paper DAS cards that existed before the digital version and the paper Guest Assistance Cards (the program before DAS) had less extensive wording, but still basically said if you lied, you could be kicked out and any passes confiscated.

That's not really going to help weed out the liars then. If you want to take advantage of a program that's supposed to be only for disabled people, they should require proof that you have said disability. Anyone can say that they have a problem, but if you have a diagnosis and proof from your doctor, it's much harder to lie about that.

Not necessarily. Honest people will be honest. Dishonest people will still be dishonest.
One way would be providing fake proof. Another would be a person with a real disability who doesn't need the level of accommodations they are asking for.

I’ve had to provide documentation of my daughter’s autism & intellectual disability to be excused from jury duty, for FMLA absence at work, to get guardianship of her at age 18 through the courts……. I would certainly be willing to provide it to WDW for the DAS if they were ever to require it.

I guess my biggest concern with the new guidelines is requiring the virtual visits instead of in-person. She isn’t going to sit with me and wait for long periods of time, and she may or may not interact with the online person. She is also non-speaking. We’ve alway just gotten ours at GS with waits of no longer than 15 minutes.

Your daughter only needs to be physically present for you to introduce her and have her picture taken if she's approved. My disabled adult daughter is non-verbal. I do the waiting on my iPad while she's sitting in her room (usually listening to Taylor Swift). I do all the speaking and when the CM Ned's to see her, I just bring the iPad over.

They issued one for my daughter before she had a ticket. They issued her a fake ticket and tied it to that. I think I used my band to scan her into rides.

Previous to issuing the 'fake tickets' for kids too young to need their own ticket, the child's DAS was 'attached' to one of the parents who scanned in with their own band. So, you might have done it both ways.

And while I appreciate Disney's system in this respect more, because I agree IBCCES does little to actually cut abuse (to paraphrase Ian Malcom...[the cheater] finds a way), this is also concerning for those whose disabilities are due to rare conditions. If all they continue to ask is re: accommodations, not a problem. But if they ask about diagnosis, when there's less than 1,000 people in the world with a condition the likelihood the "medical professionals" at Inspire Allied Health know what it is, when doctors in renowned hospitals in major metropolitan areas don't, is slim to none.

Yeah, but there are plenty of online doctors offices that will write it and verify

I agree too (and I like the reference to Ian Malcolm). Documentation can be faked and much of the documentation IBCCES accepts doesn't prove the need for accommodation in a theme park for waiting in lines (handicapped parking permit, National Park Access Card, IEP with diagnosis page, a letter from a doctor that says only " this patient is disabled").
Another type of abuse that IBCCES doesn't address is people asking for more than they need to get a 'better level' of assistance. Honest people will be honest, but dishonesty finds a way

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

This isn't going to meaningfully improve standby or LL wait times. All the posters gleefully celebrating that their standby line will now be shorter are going to be sorely disappointed. The only way to do that would be to further limit the number of people allowed into the parks each day, a la Covid.

Are there people actually expecting this to materially improve standby? I don’t think Disney is as concerned about standby times, and people who can’t get access to DAS in the new system or opt out of it because they want to be able to ride in groups of 6 or more are just going to make standby lines longer.

Removing people from LL queues who don’t need DAS (whether by shrinking the max party size or by providing alternate acceptable accommodations) will make the DAS accommodation system (and LLs) work better by shortening wait times for the guests and families who depend on it.

 

[voxparse]

Disney has never previously tried to give a disability hierarchy where they say one is more deserving of accommodation than another. When they eliminated the GAC, they reduced the accommodation for everyone equally, and the new offering, DAS, was the same for everyone. This new situation is not remotely analogous to that.

They do and have always had different accommodations for different disabilities. I am fully barred from riding Peter Pan due to my disability. There is no reasonable accommodation available to Disney to remedy the situation so it is perfectly legal to say no you can’t ride. There is no requirement or expectation of equality in accommodations. That isn’t how this works.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Are there people actually expecting this to materially improve standby? I don’t think Disney is as concerned about standby times, and people who can’t get access to DAS in the new system or opt out of it because they want to be able to ride in groups of 6 or more are just going to make standby lines longer.

Removing people from LL queues who don’t need DAS (whether by shrinking the max party size or by providing alternate acceptable accommodations) will make the DAS accommodation system (and LLs) work better by shortening wait times for the guests and families who depend on it.

Yes, I have read statements on other pages/sources that people do think this will impact standby and LL wait times.

 

[Gentry2004]

Are there people actually expecting this to materially improve standby? I don’t think Disney is as concerned about standby times, and people who can’t get access to DAS in the new system or opt out of it because they want to be able to ride in groups of 6 or more are just going to make standby lines longer.

Removing people from LL queues who don’t need DAS (whether by shrinking the max party size or by providing alternate acceptable accommodations) will make the DAS accommodation system (and LLs) work better by shortening wait times for the guests and families who depend on it.

Nah. They are going to sell additional G+. Nothing is improving about the LL.

 

[heyitsmejosh]

Yep, and Disney has decided that the needs of many current DAS users can be met with a different accommodation than the DAS.

The DAS as currently utilized is obviously disruptive to park operations. Disney already has a federal court case win saying that they don’t have to further disrupt park operations in order to provide a specific requested accommodation. No way a decision like this is made without massive legal research, and I have no doubt that Disney is on firm legal ground here.

The complaints we’re hearing today are the same complaints we heard 11 years ago when Disney eliminated the GAC - they’re gonna get sued and lose, this is illegal, etc.

How did that all turn out?

Again has to be needs based on an individual level and on an individuals needs. They can decide that people with mobility issues can use a wheelchair and all their queues will accommodate them or at Disneyland when they don’t they are given a return time, or give return to line passes to people with rest room issues. They can’t say only X,Y,Z diagnoses can use this particular accommodation especially when they don’t even ask the diagnosis. Everyone will have their interview and the disability assistance team will let them know what accommodations they can provide.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Disney has never previously tried to give a disability hierarchy where they say one is more deserving of accommodation than another. When they eliminated the GAC, they reduced the accommodation for everyone equally, and the new offering, DAS, was the same for everyone. This new situation is not remotely analogous to that.

You keep saying that there is a hierarchy of who deserves accommodation, which is simply untrue. They’re still offering accommodations, just not the one you prefer.

 

[Gentry2004]

They do and have always had different accommodations for different disabilities. I am fully barred from riding Peter Pan due to my disability. There is no reasonable accommodation available to Disney to remedy the situation so it is perfectly legal to say no you can’t ride. There is no requirement or expectation of equality in accommodations. That isn’t how this works.

Wait until they start denying kids with serious T1D and approving kids with ADHD. Things should get interesting.

 

[Gentry2004]

You keep saying that there is a hierarchy of who deserves accommodation, which is simply untrue. They’re still offering accommodations, just not the one you prefer.

There IS a hierarchy. One accommodation is FAR superior to the other. You seem to be the only one who doesn't think so.

 

[StarGirl11]

And while I appreciate Disney's system in this respect more, because I agree IBCCES does little to actually cut abuse (to paraphrase Ian Malcom...[the cheater] finds a way), this is also concerning for those whose disabilities are due to rare conditions. If all they continue to ask is re: accommodations, not a problem. But if they ask about diagnosis, when there's less than 1,000 people in the world with a condition the likelihood the "medical professionals" at Inspire Allied Health know what it is, when doctors in renowned hospitals in major metropolitan areas don't, is slim to none.

Yeah and this is unfortunately a real concern for me. (As well? I’m sorry I haven’t seen if your in the same lump of category of rare conditions. Feel free to correct me). I have a condition that around 50 people have. In the entire world. It’s comorbid to more common conditions that still fall under that classification that I also have the diagnosis for. But if I was at the start of my medical journey and I had the rare diagnosis but not the common ones this has a high chance of causing problems. Fortunately I have both the rare diagnosis along with the more common ones and can retain the DAS

But someone else who has this same condition as rare as it is who might be at the start of their journey could have so many problems. Diagnosis take time.