Couple Arrested for Refusing to Pay Tip

[luvmy3]

And again I say, without having ever seen the restaurant's menu, I'm sure there is an indication at the bottom of each page of the menu stating, "18% service charge will be added to parties of 'x' or more". I don't care what a quoted employee calls it. The restaurant management/owner calls it a service charge.

How can you be sure it says "service charge", there are plenty of restaurants that I have been to where the term used is "gratuity".

wow, haven't read all 28 pages.

Disney DOES require 18% gratuity on parties of 6 or more. if you have a problem with it, you can speak to a manager.

that being said, where I work, I can't imagine a situation where the police would be called., over a tip. however, if the people were that unhappy, I would drop the automatic gratuity myself! never would I insist on the tip to the point of having the police called. bad, bad PR!!!
either the management dropped the ball here, in which case there is NO excuse for having patrons ARRRESTED over a tip (sheesh!, these people were not happy with their service at all, and, if approaching management about it, should NOT have to pay the tip, no matter the "policy",) or, there is more to this story than meets the eye.

even at Disney, who require an automatic 18% gratuity for parties of 6 or more(even if you are on sep. checks), there is recourse for poor service. speak to the manager. in this case, it seems the manager called the police.
perhaps the customers were hostile. maybe they wee unrully,and drunk, and insisted he whole bill be comped? who knows?
sounds really weird. If a party told me I really didn't deserve the 18% auto., I would drop it and say, "whatever you think is appropriate". as a server, I would write the whole evening off as a BUST before I would involve the police! talk about bad , not just bad publicity, but not a very "welcoming" feeling to the restaurant!
neither I nor my employers would have a party arrested for NOT paying a tip.
(even though it is stated on the menu, for parties of 6 or more). how silly. that's the only word I can think of... silly.
If the facts stated in this story are just as stated,this restaurant will not(and shoud not) be in business long.... or.. there is more to this story than meets the eye.?

This is what I'm wondering too. No matter what the restaurant calls their mandatory charge for parties of 6 or more, calling the police over someone refusing to pay it is ridiculous unless something occurred to cause the manager to feel threatened or feel that the safety of everyone else was in jeopardy.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Nope, valid ever single time I walk into a restaurant. In fact, valid in every single instance anyone walks into a restaurant. Why would it ever be different regardless if it is this case or any other??

Well, respectfully, since none of us was present at the pub during the incident, ALL we have in THIS case on which to make judgments is the relatively one-sided news report.

 

[LuvCuteBoys]

And again I say, without having ever seen the restaurant's menu, I'm sure there is an indication at the bottom of each page of the menu stating, "18% service charge will be added to parties of 'x' or more". I don't care what a quoted employee calls it. The restaurant management/owner calls it a service charge.

I have never seen that. It always says gratuity. And for some reason, I'm more likely to believe the employee who works there than someone posting on a message board who doesn't work there.




Considering all of the negative publicity and the restaurants refusal to comment, I think what was reported is probably what happened. They were arrested for theft... not for disorderly conduct.

 

[luvmy3]

I have never seen that. It always says gratuity. And for some reason, I'm more likely to believe the employee who works there than someone posting on a message board who doesn't work there.




Considering all of the negative publicity and the restaurants refusal to comment, I think what was reported is probably what happened. They were arrested for theft... not for disorderly conduct.

Well then there you go, that is just insane.

 

[ms.yt]

Like I said do you think not refil a drink is bad service? I don't

Then if you were a former server, I can see why you're so worked up about this issue. If you don't think not refilling drinks is bad service, there were probably many of your customers that stiffed you on the tip.

 

[Disneyadore]

But what did these “customers” achieve with there action?
Every future employer will Google them and find there names as soon a they try to get a job.
And I would not hire somebody with that attitude. No way. You can smell the trouble they will rouse in your company.
Well done boys and girl you literally threw in your own windows.

 

[PaulaSB12]

But what did these “customers” achieve with there action?
Every future employer will Google them and find there names as soon a they try to get a job.
And I would not hire somebody with that attitude. No way. You can smell the trouble they will rouse in your company.
Well done boys and girl you literally threw in your own windows.

I don't see why anyone would take this as a point against them or do you expect people to pay for non service. The server didn't do her job so they didn't get a tip that is the servers own fault not the customers.

 

[michellev]

But what did these “customers” achieve with there action?
Every future employer will Google them and find there names as soon a they try to get a job.
And I would not hire somebody with that attitude. No way. You can smell the trouble they will rouse in your company.
Well done boys and girl you literally threw in your own windows.

The people who were arrested are both university grad students. I would base hiring them on their academic achievements, not on their protest against poor restaurant service.

If I were a restaurant owner, I would not hire this waitress.

 

[irishbosoxfan]

The restaurants expect you to turn a tip report in once a week (1 dive in our town did it daily years ago, but aside from that, it was weekly reports or amounts off the register's sales, 8%).

They don't keep track of every credit card tip you have for the week, then compare it to your tip report at the end of the week. While they may keep track of ALL credit cards tips to some capacity (but I'd even question that), they're not going to pull your weekly credit card statements out and compare them to your weekly tip report making sure you did the job you were supposed to do. Yeah, they have time for that!!! Let's compare 60 tip reports every week to make sure our servers aren't cheating the IRS.

Turning in tips has always been on the honor system. Now, if a certain % isn't claimed by the waitstaff, allocation can occur at the end of the year. If however, you keep track of your hours and tips for the entire year, the IRS cannot make you pay on that allocation. Of course, we ALL know, the waitstaff claims 100% of the tips received.

I've been following along with this thread all week and I'm sorry N Bailey but you are wrong.

I also worked as a waitress for the better part of 17 years and I have worked at a Friendlys,an Outback,a family diner,an expensive restaurant, a Dairy Queen as their weekend breakfast waitress and on and on.

Now over the years how my tips were dispursed varied. I have had to pool my tips with every other waitress working that night then divide them up equally among us,I have had to share a percentage of my tips with the hostess,the busboy and the bartender and I have been able to keep it all for myself


Also over the years how the IRS knew how much I made also varied. I have sat there as the tips were divvied and the manager wrote down how much we made in her log book---I have had to write on my time card how much I made---and then I have had it all figured out for me via the computer in the managers office at the end of my shift every night.

And the last one is the one that Catherine Rose is trying to explain to no avail. It went like this...I would go up to the diners and take their order,I would walk up to the computer and enter their items using my employee number,then I would turn in their slip to the kitchen. During the course of their meal if they ordered anything else I would enter it into the computer and the computer would keep track of their total and at the end it would print out their itemized receipt for me to give to them. The customer would peruse the receipt and hand me their credit card which I would take to the machine which was located right next to the computer and run it again using my employee number. I would take the two copies of the receipt that the machine spit out to the customer the customer would sign one and add a tip and give it back to me.

Now at the end of the night when my last customer had left I had to go get a tally sheet and print out the list of all my CC transactions . I had to make sure that my food totals matched my credit card totals along with dividing up my other totals such as alcohol. Once this was done I got in line outside the managers office door and when it was my turn I went in and sat while either the head waitress or manager made sure all the items from my tally sheet were entered into the computer and that they matched exactly what the computer and CC machine said they should. Each item was listed Food total,Alcohol total,CC Tip total and the computer said what you should've made for a Cash Tip total at 15% and it didn't matter if the amount you actually made matched that amount or not it was the amount that was going to the IRS. Now once all the numbers were entered the computer told you how much you had to tip out to the hostess,bartender and busboy and you had to pay it before you left the office.

So with all that what I'm trying to say is..Yes they keep track of your daily tip totals including your CC tips. Now not every place is computerized so you will find weekly tip totals like I had to keep track of on my time card ( but even then I had to total up all my tips daily from the CC receipts--the cashier would write our initials on the receipt before she put it in the drawer)

 

[Disneyadore]

The people who were arrested are both university grad students. I would base hiring them on their academic achievements, not on their protest against poor restaurant service.

If I were a restaurant owner, I would not hire this waitress.

Internet has a long memory and those students did themselves no favor. This will hunt them there whole life.
And lets be honest what firm will hire potential trouble makers?

 

[luvmy3]

Internet has a long memory and those students did themselves no favor. This will hunt them there whole life.
And lets be honest what firm will hire potential trouble makers?

I think what will happen is that their arrest record may haunt them for the rest of their lives but I'm sure when they explain to their prospective employer exactly why they were arrested they would still be hired. I mean I'd hire someone who felt that a person should be working for what they earn and not earning it just because.
I'd worry more about the waitress who served them, and the restaurant owner, I believe they are now the ones with the tarnished rep

 

[OceanAnnie]

Internet has a long memory and those students did themselves no favor. This will hunt them there whole life.
And lets be honest what firm will hire potential trouble makers?

It will be interesting to see the outcome of their case. It's very plausible they are not troublemakers. It remains to be seen.

 

[irishbosoxfan]

I've been messing around online trying to find out the procedure at Outback, but I'm just sick and tired of looking. When I called, they assured me that they follow the law and that servers are required to declare all the tips they make. It was a standard, it's none of your business (LOL) type response.

I had talked to one of my friend's nieces who works at Olive Garden though. She backed up what you said about credit card tips, so I am officially conceding that point. She said that when she cashes out each night, the register makes them report their tips. Credit card ones are automatic, but she said everyone she knows claims such a small percent for their cash tips that they really don't turn in much over 10-12% of total sales per day (and she added that some probably don't turn in that much even). Oh and she said it's customary to tip out X % of gross sales to busser, bartender, etc. She said that's not based on tips at all.

So here is my official apology on that point. I am sorry and am eating crow.

I do want to say however that not every restaurant turns in credit card tips even though they are chain restaurants.

This is what Outback did, but when I was at O.G. (and heck - this was 15 years go) they hadn't implemented this yet. It was whatever the server felt that job was worht, that night (just like the customers) If a busser busted his butt for you, he was getting more than the one standing there, while you cleared a table.

I'm actually happy to hear they're doing it this way, though. Just makes it easier.

I should've kept reading! Anyways I'm glad you were able to find someone who could tell you what the correct procedure is today.

And she was also correct on the tipping out of the busser,hostess and bartender being a percentage of the total sales for the night and not based on a percentage of the tips you made.

 

[okeydokey]

Internet has a long memory and those students did themselves no favor. This will hunt them there whole life.
And lets be honest what firm will hire potential trouble makers?

Since they were in the right, this will not effect their lives. The restaurant however has bunches of bad press.

 

[Karlzmom]

But they knew that the terms of their contract included an 18% charge when they ordered the meal.

I just LOVE when people throw around legal terms without actually applying them correctly.

While not a PA case, this is interesting food for thought [no pun intended], and appears consistent with a previously issued ABA article.

"A Mandatory Gratuity Is Just a Tip, and Thus Not Mandatory, a Prosecutor Says
By JANE GOTTLIEB

Published: September 15, 2004


As it turns out, a tip is just a tip, even if you put "mandatory" in front of it.

Charges were dropped yesterday against a Long Island man who was arrested last week for failing to leave a required 18 percent gratuity at Soprano's Italian and American Grill in Lake George, N.Y.


The Warren County district attorney, Kathleen B. Hogan, said that she had determined that the man, Humberto A. Taveras, could not be forced to pay a gratuity.

Ms. Hogan said, "A tip or gratuity is discretionary, and that's what the courts have found."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/15/nyregion/15tipper.html?ex=1185336000&en=af4b08faf86220b9&ei=5070

To be clear, we are describing criminal law here, and not civil contract law. Thus, the defendant has to be on clear notice that the so-called "gratuity" is, in fact, not a gratuity at all. I personally have always assumed that if one informed the management of an establishment that one had not received satisfactory service, the management would be willing to reduce the gratutity accordingly.

 

[tasha99]

Internet has a long memory and those students did themselves no favor. This will hunt them there whole life.
And lets be honest what firm will hire potential trouble makers?

There is a difference between being a trouble maker and having a backbone. I think it's sad that someone would consider expecting someone to earn their tip being a troublemaker.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

There is a difference between being a trouble maker and having a backbone. I think it's sad that someone would consider expecting someone to earn their tip being a troublemaker.

I agree.

 

[Blue.Fairy2]

You have got to be freaking kidding me?!

Please tell me, how is it the server's fault when she has written down the order as follows: Burger, well done, with ketchup, mustard, lettuce and tomato. And the cook puts a slice of cheese on it. You go to pick up the order and see there is cheese on it. The customer did not order cheese. You tell the cook, he then has to cook a whole new burger because you really can't just scrape the cheese off and serve it. Please tell me how, on God's green earth, can that be the fault of the server???

And now this order is going to take even longer because of having to cook another burger. Thick, fat burger patties take awhile to cook when the customer wants it well done. And if a mistake was made, BY THE COOK, then it's going to take even longer. Please tell me how THIS is the server's fault???

Yes, this happened to me at work. And many other orders were messed up by the COOK even though I had written the order correctly (and yes, my handwriting is legible). The only thing the server would be at fault for in these cases, would be if she didn't go to the table and explain what was going on. I always tried to inform my customers when something happened like that, and 99% of the time they were understanding and just appreciated being informed. But occasionally there was the customer who still held it against me, the server. For something that was NOT my fault.

No, I am not kidding you! I gave no examples but if you had read the post I quoted then you knew what I was responding to nothing like the situation you described.


I think alot of servers use cooks as scape goats, not saying you did sounds like you did everything right but not all do.

It is not your fault the cook put cheese on the burger when no cheese was ordered don't be silly. As the server you go to the table and explain then you make the cook re cook the complete order and get it out ASAP!!!! You also get the manager to comp something or at least offer.


I was a server also and yes if the cook screws up and you take the screw up to the table with everyones elses food then it is your fault.

 

[C.Ann]

I just LOVE when people throw around legal terms without actually applying them correctly.

While not a PA case, this is interesting food for thought [no pun intended], and appears consistent with a previously issued ABA article.

"A Mandatory Gratuity Is Just a Tip, and Thus Not Mandatory, a Prosecutor Says
By JANE GOTTLIEB

Published: September 15, 2004


As it turns out, a tip is just a tip, even if you put "mandatory" in front of it.

Charges were dropped yesterday against a Long Island man who was arrested last week for failing to leave a required 18 percent gratuity at Soprano's Italian and American Grill in Lake George, N.Y.


The Warren County district attorney, Kathleen B. Hogan, said that she had determined that the man, Humberto A. Taveras, could not be forced to pay a gratuity.

Ms. Hogan said, "A tip or gratuity is discretionary, and that's what the courts have found."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/15/nyregion/15tipper.html?ex=1185336000&en=af4b08faf86220b9&ei=5070

To be clear, we are describing criminal law here, and not civil contract law. Thus, the defendant has to be on clear notice that the so-called "gratuity" is, in fact, not a gratuity at all. I personally have always assumed that if one informed the management of an establishment that one had not received satisfactory service, the management would be willing to reduce the gratutity accordingly.

Ah yes - I forgot all about that case.. Happened up here in my neck of the mountains.. It was all over the newspapers and television.. Nice detective work..

 

[N.Bailey]

How can you be sure it says "service charge", there are plenty of restaurants that I have been to where the term used is "gratuity".




This is what I'm wondering too. No matter what the restaurant calls their mandatory charge for parties of 6 or more, calling the police over someone refusing to pay it is ridiculous unless something occurred to cause the manager to feel threatened or feel that the safety of everyone else was in jeopardy.

If he'd have called the police because of threats, they wouldn't have been charged with theft.

The Constitution is in place so that police cannot do whatever the heck they want whenever the heck they wanna do it. In this case however, even the cop has stated he never thought the charge would hold up in a court of law and we know for a fact in the '03 case, the courts ruled in favor of the customer. I can't see this court ruling any differently. If it were me however and the court ruled against me, I would push it and appeal the decision because to me, it's not about a tip. It's about be mandated to leave a gift. A gift that isn't mandated if you sit at a 4 top.

I don't disagree so much with the restaurant trying to impose it really, because I think it does keep some people from stiffing their waitstaff when they did in fact receive good service. I just feel that anytime it's questioned and more importantly, if a guest claims rude and/or bad service, they should NEVER be obligated to tip.

I'd be curious to know what type of business this pub has been getting. The PR is horrible for them. You don't have your customers arrested because they didn't want to tip a crappy waitress (assuming the waitress was crappy and I think more people are outraged at the arrest than the not tipping and will justify it anyway).

Whether or not tipping was founded or not (and none of us were there), this is just something that wait staff is going to have to accept. It goes with the territory. I'm not saying it's fair, I'm just saying it's not enforceable to mandate it.

Someone asked about Disney, too. Well, the bottom line is Disney could call the police and risk that the offense would stick (it likely would not and would likely be appealed if it is - If for no other than reason than a possible attempt to sue), but I doubt they would ever risk PR by doing that. I would hope the managers who run their restaurants are well versed on how to manage a restaurant as successfully as possible.