Copper Creek Selling March 8

[FireflyTrance]

This is how I feel too....but I still may buy!....how sad is that!

I still might too. I only own resale right now and would really like to be a "real" Member Also WL is my husband's favorite resort. We have been talking about buying a 100 point contract and just banking and borrowing to say there every other year or so.

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

They low-balled the MF for Aulani, and a bunch of highly paid CMs lost their jobs. Since then, I think the trend is to price MF for new resorts on the high side, and to avoid bad surprises in the early years.

 

[skier_pete]

So here's something no one seems to be talking about - the potential lack of studios.

DVCnews has a post here they predict the # of each type of room. There is indicated as being 184 rooms, and they have 172 of them as

13 Dedicated Studios
15 Dedicated One Bedroom Villas
7 Alternate Lockoff Two Bedroom Villas (including Alternate Studios)
33 Lockoff Two Bedroom Villas
72 Dedicated Two Bedroom Villas
6 Grand Villas
26 Cabins
__
172 vacation homes

Since this can't quite be right, the documentation says 184 vacation homes - lets assume that they have are slightly short on the # of dedicated studios and 1-bedrooms...and call it this:

25 Dedicated Studios
28 Dedicated One Bedroom Villas
7 Alternate Lockoff Two Bedroom Villas (including Alternate Studios)
33 Lockoff Two Bedroom Villas
60 Dedicated Two Bedroom Villas
6 Grand Villas
26 Cabins
__
184 vacation homes

If we convert ALL the lock-offs to studios and 1-bedrooms:

65 Studios
68 One Bedroom Villas
60 Two Bedroom Villas
6 Grand Villas
26 Cabins

Now we know from another post HERE that the average point requirements are:

• Deluxe Studio: 18 points per night

• One Bedroom Villa: 36 points per night

• Two Bedroom Villa: 46 points per night

• Cabin: 115 points per night

• Three Bedroom Grand Villa: 122 points per night

Using the two pieces of data above, we can calculate how much of the points are available on any given day for each room type. This comes to:
11% Studios
24% 1-bedrooms
27% 2-bedrooms
7% Grand Villas
31% Cabins

That means only 11 % of the total property points is reserved for studios. Typically DVC has been from what I can see 20-25%. The Poly, because there are so many studios, is about 75% allocated for studios. The Grand Floridian - which is almost impossible to get a studio and even owners have a hard time - I calculate as having 16% of the points allocated to studios.

What fraction of ownership at $176 per point are going to be looking to be in a studio??? I don't really know the answer to that, but I would bet it'll be way more than 11 %. I am looking at this combined with the high dues and thinking that if you want to book a studio, you should NEVER, EVER buy at Copper Creek. The caveat to that being unless the predicted room distribution is far off. If the studios are closer to 20% of the total availability, then you are OK, but otherwise...no way.

 

[Anal Annie]

I kinda like this studio will only allow 4 people. I like the Poly but it really lacks storage.

We had more storage at the Poly than at any other DVC. Those drawers under the bed were huge + the drawers in the bathrooms were AWESOME. We had no problems what-so-ever with the storage at the Poly. The kitchenette storage was skimpy tho.

 

[viper17d]

Just bought a 50 point add on. We own at Boulder Ridge (through resale), so the add on to get the Membership Extras made a lot of sense to us. We weren't ready to buy a ton of points here (which is a good thing considering the high MFs), but we have enough for 3 nights in a studio each year.

Pretty excited about it - particularly the opportunities to stay in the GV or Cabin once we add on a few years down the road.

 

[Sophie_inBflo]

Just bought a 50 point add on. We own at Boulder Ridge (through resale), so the add on to get the Membership Extras made a lot of sense to us. We weren't ready to buy a ton of points here (which is a good thing considering the high MFs), but we have enough for 3 nights in a studio each year.

Pretty excited about it - particularly the opportunities to stay in the GV or Cabin once we add on a few years down the road.

Where did you buy? I thought CCV wasn't available until next week some time.

 

[FireflyTrance]

Using the two pieces of data above, we can calculate how much of the points are available on any given day for each room type. This comes to:
11% Studios
24% 1-bedrooms
27% 2-bedrooms
7% Grand Villas
31% Cabins

This does make it seem like there will be a shortage of studios. Especially if you consider that the 1 bedrooms only sleep 4. That makes me think studios will be even more popular, since they sleep 4 as well and are approximately half the points.

 

[viper17d]

Where did you buy? I thought CCV wasn't available until next week some time.

We had reached out to our DVC sales contact a while back to let us know when new info came out. He reached out today with all the details, we reviewed, told him our decision, and he drew up the contract and set us up to close on March 8th. We should be getting our official (non resale, haha) membership card by March 9th, and be able to book starting on March 22nd for as early as July 17th.

Pretty excited about it. We even have Annual Passes purchased (but not redeemed yet) that we may be able to get some money back on with the membership card!

 

[DenLo]

I own at BCV. Starting dues at VWL2 are over $1/pp higher. . . .

CCV - $7.33 versus BRV is $6.5448 which is $0.78 which means CCV is 12% higher.

That is crazy high. I wonder what is making them so high and how quickly the BRV MF will catch up to that.

I think they expect the cabins to be expensive to maintain. And I would bet BRV will have an increase in dues, but nothing like CCVs.

. . .I don't think BRV will equal CCV though - the stand alone cabins are going to keep those higher IMO although I'd think that the quanitity of rooms in the main building would offset a bit.

The cabins have point costs greater than the lake view GVs at BLT and the GV's have point costs just under the Theme Park view GV's at BLT. Also, the cabins sleep 8, but four of those sleeping spaces appear to be in the living room (pull-out couch, sleeper chair and apparently a murphy bed). The master has the king but the second bedroom has only a queen and is too small for another bed (more like a Treehouse room).

The CCV declarations cite to a First Amendment to the Common Facilities Agreement. The Common Facilities Agreement is from the year 2,000 and concerns WL and VWL sharing common facility and area costs. The new First Amendment to that agreemnt makes clear that CCV and BRV are going to be sharing their facilities and common areas with both paying for their maintenance. Since CCV will be a shared resort with BRV and WL for the spreading of common facility and area costs, I wonder if the stated annual fees for CCV are telling us that BRV may be in for a big jump in 2018?

BTW, the murphy twin bed is in the second bedroom. It shows up on the floorpans shows on the MS website.

Although CCV will have higher dues I think it will be because of the cabins. I think BRV will some increase and they will have a higher occupancy rate since they have studios that sleep 5 and lockoffs that sleep 9, so their share of the expenses will be affected by those numbers. But overall I think BRVs dues will be less than CCVs all because of the cabins.

 

[Wakey]

Was considering maybe a small add on here, but like some others, that has gone. Only 4 sleep surfaces (would they even allow one in on an air matress etc?), very high buy in price (most speculation was that it would be a bit cheaper) and ridiculous MF's. Sorry Disney but no thanks, even though I like the room decor.

 

[DisneyKeepsUsYoung]

We had reached out to our DVC sales contact a while back to let us know when new info came out. He reached out today with all the details, we reviewed, told him our decision, and he drew up the contract and set us up to close on March 8th. We should be getting our official (non resale, haha) membership card by March 9th, and be able to book starting on March 22nd for as early as July 17th.

Pretty excited about it. We even have Annual Passes purchased (but not redeemed yet) that we may be able to get some money back on with the membership card!

Wow, talk about a totally different process than buying resale! That's crazy fast! I didn't think anyone could start the process until next week. Congrats!

 

[FireflyTrance]

I just got an email about Copper Creek that mentions an "Introductory offer available March 8, 2017 – May 31, 2017" Any word on what the offer is?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I just got an email about Copper Creek that mentions an "Introductory offer available March 8, 2017 – May 31, 2017" Any word on what the offer is?

Incentives for contracts larger than 150 points. They still equal out to $165+ per point, all told.

 

[Dean Marino]

Just us.... forget any costs. Those Villas are UGLY. They have NOTHING to do with a Classic Pacific Northwest Park. Room layouts? OK.
Furnishings? Design by IKEA. Personal opinion - they look like Howard Johnson's did the the interior design.....
Not touching it.... we already own at Bolder Creek.

All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Personal opinion - they look like Howard Johnson's did the the interior design.....

Maybe the target market is people who stayed at the HoJo in the 1970s? I THINK YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!!

 

[hakepb]

Just us.... forget any costs. Those Villas are UGLY. They have NOTHING to do with a Classic Pacific Northwest Park. Room layouts? OK.
Furnishings? Design by IKEA. Personal opinion - they look like Howard Johnson's did the the interior design.....
Not touching it.... we already own at Bolder Creek.

All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.

That studio dresser? Like they bought the frame from Ikea and then expected us to believe they collected a different drawer at a different national park? Who Does That?

 

[wdrl]

Wouldn't the mf be less if ccv had more overall points?

I mean wouldn't the mf actually be lower or higher compared to how many points there overall are available at CCV? So a high number of points would spread the total cost of the mf among more points and then make the cost per point lower. It would be the other way around with less points.

There are several short term factors coming into play that are inflating Copper Creek's maintenance fees.

Copper Creek will have 184 vacation homes once it is completely declared for the DVC inventory. But for the moment, it only has 48 vacation homes. Until the 2017 Copper Creek budget is released, we won't know how many points the resort has for budgetary purposes. Eventually, when all 184 vacation homes are declared for the DVC inventory, I suspect CCV will have about 3.6 to 3.8 million points. That might sound like a large number, but that would make CCV only larger than BRV, BCV, and VGF among the WDW resorts.

Another factor that may be coming into play are CCV's ad valorem taxes. With PVB, Disney overestimated its property taxes in both 2015 and 2016, its first two years of operation. In 2015, PVB owners received a credit of $1.27 per point on their maintenance fees, and in 2016 PVB owners received a credit of $1.04 per point (see this article for more details). I'm not saying it would happen with CCV, but it won't surprise me if there is an adjustment after Orange County issues the tax assessments in November.

 

[ThisIsJason]

I like the cost of points per night, one bedroom layout is nice. That interior design, no thank you. Guess buying Aulani resale was for the best. Guess will wait and see what the next project is.

 

[wdrl]

What fraction of ownership at $176 per point are going to be looking to be in a studio??? I don't really know the answer to that, but I would bet it'll be way more than 11 %. I am looking at this combined with the high dues and thinking that if you want to book a studio, you should NEVER, EVER buy at Copper Creek. The caveat to that being unless the predicted room distribution is far off. If the studios are closer to 20% of the total availability, then you are OK, but otherwise...no way.

Its an interesting take on Copper Creek's mix of villas. I had not thought to look at the percentage of points that are allocated by accommodation type.

I duplicated your method and came up with a studio percentage of 11.58% for Copper Creek. I then looked at Bay Lake Tower's mix of villas using the same method:

133 studios with a minimum point value of 16
133 one-bedrooms with a minimum value of 39
148 two-bedrooms with a minimum value of 54
14 grand villas with a minimum value of 96

Using that method, BLT's percentage is 12.78%, not far off from Copper Creek's percentage of 11.58.

I have owned at BLT since 2009 and have booked studios almost every year. I've never had a problem getting a studio during the home resort booking period. Nor do I think other people have complained about the inability to book BLT studios during the home resort period as a general rule.

So, in my opinion, CCV's 11.58 % percentage of studios to total points would not seem to be an adverse indicator of future availability.

 

[Sophie_inBflo]

We had reached out to our DVC sales contact a while back to let us know when new info came out. He reached out today with all the details, we reviewed, told him our decision, and he drew up the contract and set us up to close on March 8th. We should be getting our official (non resale, haha) membership card by March 9th, and be able to book starting on March 22nd for as early as July 17th.

Pretty excited about it. We even have Annual Passes purchased (but not redeemed yet) that we may be able to get some money back on with the membership card!

Awesome! What use year are they selling?