DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[xdan0920]

You would be fine with them making changes that are so onerous that it would drop the resale prices to zero ?

Houston, we have a problem……

Yes. I’ll never sell so why should I care about resale values?

 

[muppets3d]

Yes. I’ll never sell so why should I care about resale values?

Disney certainly doesn't care about resale value. It's foolish for anyone else to, frankly.

 

[Carouselofplanning]

This whole take on wanting a “full crackdown” is a little much. This is meant to address commercial rentals. That is a legal term. This is meant to stop people from using DVC rentals as a for-profit business. Disney knows exactly who these owners are. They can see the behavior clear as day on their side. If you have thousands of points and a bunch of reservations and they are almost always not in your name as lead guest, and you play all of these reservation games being discussed on here, this is directed at you. It’s going to be very interesting to see what enforcement looks like. Do they suspend your ability to make reservations where the owner isn’t the lead guest, do they move to cancel the contract? Do they cancel the reservations already made with guest names (renters) on them? I’m skeptical of the last option. At the end of the day that family is their guest. They don’t want to hurt that relationship if they can help it. I bet you see action against the owner not the renter because the owner is the one doing something wrong. Renting points is allowed. I don’t think this is meant to dissuade normal members from renting unused points - life does happen. If they move to take away that right, then resale prices will plummet because you are placing more financial risk on the owner, no way around that fact.

 

[muppets3d]

This whole take on wanting a “full crackdown” is a little much. This is meant to address commercial rentals. That is a legal term. This is meant to stop people from using DVC rentals as a for-profit business. Disney knows exactly who these owners are. They can see the behavior clear as day on their side. If you have thousands of points and a bunch of reservations and they are almost always not in your name as lead guest, and you play all of these reservation games being discussed on here, this is directed at you. It’s going to be very interesting to see what enforcement looks like. Do they suspend your ability to make reservations where the owner isn’t the lead guest, do they move to cancel the contract? Do they cancel the reservations already made with guest names (renters) on them? I’m skeptical of the last option. At the end of the day that family is their guest. They don’t want to hurt that relationship if they can help it. I bet you see action against the owner not the renter because the owner is the one doing something wrong. Renting points is allowed. I don’t think this is meant to dissuade normal members from renting unused points - life does happen. If they move to take away that right, then resale prices will plummet because you are placing more financial risk on the owner, no way around that fact.

I tend to agree that cancelling rental reservations may not be the first step but it's an arrow I am sure they're keeping in their quiver.

 

[Sandisw]

Yes. I’ll never sell so why should I care about resale values?

I also could care less about resale value.

But I do care that whatever elements for using our membership align with what we bought.

 

[davidhr]

You mean, drop our resale value to zero?

It’s never a good thing when rights are removed from the members. The end result will be that you still have availability issues because math exists, but you have a lower resale value.

Is the resale value of other timeshares close to zero because these actions, or because they offer the same as every other timeshare/hotel and don’t have a theme park next to their resorts?

 

[Sandisw]

This whole take on wanting a “full crackdown” is a little much. This is meant to address commercial rentals. That is a legal term. This is meant to stop people from using DVC rentals as a for-profit business. Disney knows exactly who these owners are. They can see the behavior clear as day on their side. If you have thousands of points and a bunch of reservations and they are almost always not in your name as lead guest, and you play all of these reservation games being discussed on here, this is directed at you. It’s going to be very interesting to see what enforcement looks like. Do they suspend your ability to make reservations where the owner isn’t the lead guest, do they move to cancel the contract? Do they cancel the reservations already made with guest names (renters) on them? I’m skeptical of the last option. At the end of the day that family is their guest. They don’t want to hurt that relationship if they can help it. I bet you see action against the owner not the renter because the owner is the one doing something wrong. Renting points is allowed. I don’t think this is meant to dissuade normal members from renting unused points - life does happen. If they move to take away that right, then resale prices will plummet because you are placing more financial risk on the owner, no way around that fact.

They also are aware of the 2021..I think… FL law 718 that actually supported owners rights to rent and make it harder for condo associations to vastly change the rules.

So, I do think it’s important to remember that whatever DVC does, it will be based on them feeling confident it’s within the law.

It’s not been talked about much but the clause about the POS prevailing over…paraphrasing here…is there for a reason.

In case it’s of interest to anyone.
ETA: https://shuffieldlowman.com/blog/re...-hoa-rental-restrictions-in-florida-statutes/

 

[davidhr]

You would be fine with them making changes that are so onerous that it would drop the resale prices to zero ?

Houston, we have a problem……

“I’m ok suffering if others are suffering more than me”

 

[cruisehopeful]

I'm from the old school timeshares where they are valued at zero after a while. So, the value of DVC if I need to sell has next to zero influence on what I buy. I'm much more interested in getting the type of reservations that I want for myself. Had I known about the mega renters and how they operate before I bought may have given me pause on buying, just because I want a fair shake on getting what I want. I truly had no idea how bad it was until specific information was posted in this thread.

It seems to me, that Disney could crack down by making the offenders only be allowed to stay in their own resort. This happened to the family that was selling private tours of WDW. Since they owned DVC, they were completely banned from all Disney properties, except they are allowed to stay in their home resort. They can't trade or visit other places. It seems to me since that's how they handled it, it would be a logical way to deal with commercial renters.

 

[Mouseforward]

Is the resale value of other timeshares close to zero because these actions, or because they offer the same as every other timeshare/hotel and don’t have a theme park next to their resorts?

Well they have timeshares closer than some of the DVC options and they are sold for pennies so that answers it.

 

[cruisehopeful]

Is the resale value of other timeshares close to zero because these actions, or because they offer the same as every other timeshare/hotel and don’t have a theme park next to their resorts?

I believe it is because of the rising MFs every year. They get to a point where less expensive stays can be had than the cost of the annual dues.

 

[Mouseforward]

You would be fine with them making changes that are so onerous that it would drop the resale prices to zero ?

Houston, we have a problem……

Yeah , we’re dealing with financially irrational folks, but yes, this is a timeshare so we should expect this. Kind of a slanted population of fiscal responsibility.

My head just really can’t get around this that people don’t understand the concept of there’s X points sold and that number doesn’t change based on who’s booking the points.

Everyone still gonna want the cheap studio at that popular time.

I have no love for the commercial sites. And I am sure they’re using multiple employees to book at 8 AM, which is the actual unethical practice cheating the system in order to get tons of reservations. I would be very happy if they could stop this.

Maybe Disney should give us the opportunity to give back our unneeded points for $16. They could rent them out.

But in the end changes like this to our contract are not a a win.

I also heard a good theory online as to why Disney is now taking this seriously after 20 years. The theory is that it is now cheaper to rent points at any of the sold out resorts, then it is to buy a contract and pay maintenance. So now rentals are cutting into DVC sales.

 

[xdan0920]

I also could care less about resale value.

But I do care that whatever elements for using our membership align with what we bought.

I bought to vacation at Walt Disney World. Full stop.

 

[xdan0920]

But in the end changes like this to our contract are not a a win.

I couldn’t disagree with you any more. Clamping down on rentals is a huge win

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

So I just did a quick search. There is a particular poster on the rental forum here (I'm not going to name the name or listings as I don't want to run afoul of any rules here) who, between May of 2024 and April of 2025, appears to have rented 9,500 points. There could be other posters with similar histories, I just checked this one because I saw his name a lot. It looks to me possible that even people who are casually renting directly from an owner here on DIS could get burned with cancelled reservations by stuff like this. That sure looks to violate the new wording Disney has put out and I am curious to see if that poster tries to list another batch for rent (he seems to do so every few months).

It also looks like he was getting, on average, 20ish per point, so he pulled in around $100,000 in profit after accounting for maintenance fees. Based on the types of contracts he had (Aulani, Bay Lake Tower, Grand Floridian), he sure looks to have outlaid well over a million dollars to acquire them.

 

[muppets3d]

I also could care less about resale value.

But I do care that whatever elements for using our membership align with what we bought.

If you bought DVC for any reason other than to use the points to book vacation accommodations for you and your family, then you misunderstand the purpose of the product and should consider selling ASAP.

 

[muppets3d]

Yeah , we’re dealing with financially irrational folks, but yes, this is a timeshare so we should expect this. Kind of a slanted population of fiscal responsibility.

My head just really can’t get around this that people don’t understand the concept of there’s X points sold and that number doesn’t change based on who’s booking the points.

Everyone still gonna want the cheap studio at that popular time.

I have no love for the commercial sites. And I am sure they’re using multiple employees to book at 8 AM, which is the actual unethical practice cheating the system in order to get tons of reservations. I would be very happy if they could stop this.

Maybe Disney should give us the opportunity to give back our unneeded points for $16. They could rent them out.

But in the end changes like this to our contract are not a a win.

I also heard a good theory online as to why Disney is now taking this seriously after 20 years. The theory is that it is now cheaper to rent points at any of the sold out resorts, then it is to buy a contract and pay maintenance. So now rentals are cutting into DVC sales.

They haven't changed any contracts. DVC is a product intended for owners to book vacation accommodations for themselves and their families using their points. It is not a speculator's product, although people have used it as such outside of the contract. Perhaps Disney's biggest flaw here is they've allowed it for as long as they have.

I do agree that Disney is now looking at this closely, not because of availability issues from members booking villas but because it's cutting in to their sales, both in terms of cash bookings and new direct points. Now that interest in Disney's experiences is cooling, they're looking under the couch cushions for pennies they've overlooked.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Yes. I’ll never sell so why should I care about resale values?

Ok, it’s important to know who is advocating for solutions that would burn the whole system down just so that they can get what they want vs what is good for the overall membership.

 

[MB_01]

Disney has never seemed to like any kind of middle man in their businesses. Surprised they left this one alone as long as they have.

 

[muppets3d]

Ok, it’s important to know who is advocating for solutions that would burn the whole system down just so that they can get what they want vs what is good for the overall membership.

The "system" will not burn down if resale contracts are devalued. Except for a few resorts, resale values have been dropping precipitously for years now that Disney has not been ROFRing much. If Disney cared about resale value they'd ROFR more to keep the price integrity up. But they don't. Why should anyone else care?