Community College enrollment plunges, this can't be good

[Pea-n-Me]

As a parent whose daughter will a HS 2024 graduate, I can say without hesitation that community college isn't even in anyone's vocabulary, at least where we live. I moved to the area almost 7 years ago when my daughter entered 5th grade. I remember when she was about to enter 6th grade and went to the parent night. The conversation about classes (specifically advanced classes in middle school) went there quickly and then the principal actually hard a presentation of "the road to GA Tech." Yes, in 6th grade. In HS it is not enough to be a straight A honor student. You need to have AP/Honors classes and dual enrollment. As someone who was a nurse, community college doesn't do it anymore. Most employers want a 4 year BSN. Though every graduating nurse takes the same exam whether you went to a community college, nursing school or university....doesn't matter. The nursing programs in community colleges were big draws. You would think it would be different since there is such a need for nurses. From what I hear, even a 4 year degree isn't enough. It's a Masters now. Even on the college visits that we've attended, there is so much talk about getting your masters in 1 year and getting a break on the tuition cost. When school said at 50% reduced tuition. That's what my niece and nephew did and so did my dear friends nieces and nephews (4 of them).

I agree with the bolded, depending on where you work. Magnet hospitals (which are some of the best hospitals for nurses to work - called “Magnet”, because they are able to attract and retain nurses) strive to have at least 80% of their nursing staff have a BSN or higher degree. Why? Because studies (and repeat studies) have shown better outcomes for patients with BSN nurses caring for them. (Aiken research) Savvy patients today even know to seek out Magnet hospitals when acquiring their care.

Associate degree nurses were originally intended to be “technical” nurses in the setting of a severe nursing shortage after WWII. Women knew they could do other things so nursing took a big hit, since it was such a tough job. Once this experiment started, it took off, as a quick way for people to get into the workforce and earn a decent living with some level of job security. Hospital nursing programs dwindled, and community college preparation became very popular. But as care became more complicated and challenging, it wasn’t enough. Pharmacists, physical therapists, physicians, all have advanced degrees. Nurses needed to keep up. A BSN nurse possesses all the knowledge that today’s nurses need to start their careers among other health professionals and patient challenges in today’s highly specialized medical environments. You want your nurse to be able to think critically and understand how to problem solve and work with other members of the team. Where I work they only hire BSNs. They will not even hire nursing students that aren’t in BSN programs.

https://nursejournal.org/articles/reasons-why-rns-should-pursue-their-bsn-degree/

Community colleges today that do have ADN programs usually partner with 4 yr universities so that their nursing graduates can go right on an earn their BSN. This should say something. Believe it or not I have actually recommended ADN programs for people I know who are not traditional students, as a way for them to get into the field, knowing they will have to continue on. But it would allow someone to get working right away while they pursue their higher degree. Around here that may be in a nursing home or rehab, but it is working. Some hospitals may be hiring these graduates, as well, as many are hurting for help. But I think the ADN grad will run into pressure about not having their BSN. That’s just how it is today.

My daughter has her BSN and is about two courses away from completing her MSN. Someone here earlier mentioned GPA when getting into nursing programs. In our experience with her getting into a 4 yr highly competitive nursing program, the only thing they seemed to care about were her SAT scores, and she actually did not originally get into the progam because of that. She got into a similar program at the school, though, and was able to do really well in her first year courses (which were the same as with nursing) and reapply, when, thankfully, she got in. It was a nail biter, though. I know a lot of people who want to do nursing, but can’t get in. Private programs seem a little easier to get into because there is more competition at the public schools (because they’re cheaper, essentially). I know a lot of nurses who had to go the private route because they couldn’t get into the public programs. (And they’re saddled with large loans.) I also know that, once in, it requires a lot of dedication to studies (and less fooling around) because the courses are very tough and, I think, meant to weed out, so if you get below a B+ in major courses, they give you one more shot, and then you’re out if you can’t get the grade up. (I know someone right now in that position and it’s heartbreaking. Didn’t take it as seriously as she should have. But desperately wants to be a nurse. Will have to try to get into another program now.)

I’ve trained a lot of nurses over the course of my career and I have to say I am really proud of today’s nurses (even if my daughter wasn’t one) as they are really smart and excellent with patients. My DD was telling me about a situation she had where she was the most senior nurse on (that’s how it is now, all newer nurses working in hospitals, a lot of the more senior ones have left) when they had an emergency with a patient (who’d “coded”, or died unexpectedly) and she was able to lead her team to quickly and successfully resuscitate the patient before the rest of the emergency personnel even arrived. I was so proud of her! It’s been really fun for me seeing how much she’s grown as a competent professional in these years since HS.

Hope this helps, and doesn’t offend. Just telling it the way I see it out in the working world. Things could be different in other areas of the country, idk. If you have any ?s about it and want to pursue a nursing career, I’d probably talk with nurses who work in a place you’d like to work and see what they have to say. Nursing instructors at the schools are also very willing to give advice. There is also a lot of information online with the American Nurses Association.

 

[dreamer17555]

Wasn’t some of this decline already predicted though? Just based on demographics of students? I remember when my daughter was applying to colleges that there was talk of a cliff coming in like 2025 of college enrollment severely dropping off at that point just because the number of high school aged students is declining…

 

[barkley]

That's crazy expensive IMHO. In California Community College has been free since 2017 if you meet certain requirements.
California State University tuition is $7,392 per academic year by comparison.

only certain california community colleges participate in that program and you have to meet certain very specific criteria that can eliminate eligibility to a significant percentage of the population. it was free back in the day when i attended, now it's about $46 per unit not counting fees which is still much less than state university which by the way can be as much as $4600 more per year in additional fees alone (my california state university alma mater appears to be a bargain-it's fees are currently 'only' $2318 a year).

 

[mjkacmom]

That's crazy expensive IMHO. In California Community College has been free since 2017 if you meet certain requirements.
California State University tuition is $7,392 per academic year by comparison.

Our CC is free if you an the top 15%, but you don’t get to choose which one I believe.

 

[Grumpy_Dad]

Wasn’t some of this decline already predicted though? Just based on demographics of students? I remember when my daughter was applying to colleges that there was talk of a cliff

Yes it was. I used to work at a university and for years they were discussing, fearfully, the drop in birth rate that started in 2008 (triggered by the recession) they were expecting a shortfall of college age students to hit about now and it was commonly referred to as "the cliff".

This will hit small colleges, especially private ones, very hard. Not only are there fewer students in general, but these schools are generally more tuition dependent and rely on CC transfers to keep their enrollment numbers up. In the coming years there will likely be an increased number of closures and mergers of these types schools.

 

[DisneyTarheel]

So what I am to understand is that the schools who pick very expensive books are not doing it because they have to do so. In fact, they are deliberately fleecing their students and their families because if some don't they are opting in.
Guess who will NOT be getting any donations anytime soon :/

Lol. Meal plans have also become a bit of a money grab at some universities. Those ‘all-you-can-eat’ meal swipes are priced like you *are* eating a lot, so those who aren’t are paying way more than they would pay a la carte.

 

[mjkacmom]

Lol. Meal plans have also become a bit of a money grab at some universities. Those ‘all-you-can-eat’ meal swipes are priced like you *are* eating a lot, so those who aren’t are paying way more than they would pay a la carte.

They averaged around $3000 a semester at my kids‘ colleges.

 

[barkley]

Lol. Meal plans have also become a bit of a money grab at some universities. Those ‘all-you-can-eat’ meal swipes are priced like you *are* eating a lot, so those who aren’t are paying way more than they would pay a la carte.

the university local to us doesn't do that kind of system anymore-it's strictly an 'a la carte' where the student is issued so many points that they can use on campus (no all you can eat options since covid) with a very small percentage usable w/some outside vendors. they have flat amount plans people in the dorms have to buy into and points roll over but at a decreased value from quarter to quarter before dropping off at the end of each academic year. if a student runs out of points they can either use cash, a traditional debit/credit card or load more on their card (but there's no financial incentive to do so-the points are dollar for dollar the same as paying out of pocket). they have scaled back so much on the food offerings on campus post covid i strongly suspect that after a month or so it would be so repetitious the points would go unused and students would opt for off campus options which means the university is making more of a profit.

 

[MrsPete]

That's crazy expensive IMHO. In California Community College has been free since 2017 if you meet certain requirements.
California State University tuition is $7,392 per academic year by comparison.

Yes, that is crazy expensive.

I just googled the community college my youngest attended: $1216 is the maximum per semester, and that would allow you to take 16+ credits ... and it would be proportionally less for a kid taking fewer classes.

In contrast, the university from which my kids graduated costs: $3985 for tuition and fees (includes text book rental), and $2973 for a basic dorm room. Their meal plans vary, but to give examples: 10 all-you-can-eat meals each week + $450 for a-la-cart items is $1937 ... and the ultimate, all-you-can-eat, all-day-long meal plan is $2814.

... Where I work they only hire BSNs. They will not even hire nursing students that aren’t in BSN programs.

I don't doubt this is possible in some places, but my daughter hires nurses, and she will interview anyone with a pulse. We have a severe nursing shortage here. As I said earlier, about 50% of our nurses have a BSN.

Absolutely it's better to have the BSN ... nurses with a BSN will command a higher salary, will be able to pick and choose their jobs, and will move up the ladder faster. But the people with community college degrees will not be unemployed.

Our CC is free if you an the top 15%, but you don’t get to choose which one I believe.

I can think of at least one big state scholarship that awards about 400 scholarships across our whole state ... and the scholarship committee considers where the student wants to go, but the people who are near the end of the 400 often end up in a school they didn't choose. Most choose to accept the scholarship anyway.

Yes it was. I used to work at a university and for years they were discussing, fearfully, the drop in birth rate that started in 2008 (triggered by the recession) they were expecting a shortfall of college age students to hit about now and it was commonly referred to as "the cliff" ...

That's interesting. Our shrinking birth rate is concerning in other ways too; for example, who's going to pay our social security?

 

[barkley]

I don't doubt this is possible in some places, but my daughter hires nurses, and she will interview anyone with a pulse. We have a severe nursing shortage here. As I said earlier, about 50% of our nurses have a BSN.

Absolutely it's better to have the BSN ... nurses with a BSN will command a higher salary, will be able to pick and choose their jobs, and will move up the ladder faster. But the people with community college degrees will not be unemployed.

absolutely! the big hospital group in our region is recruiting like crazy. a community college rn with 2 years experience is looking at a $20K hiring bonus, one with less experience is eligible to $15K. additionally-hire in from the community college and have the hospital pay for the 4th year you need for your bsn.

 

[Aimeedyan]

It's been a long time since I was in college but I started at a CC because I was paying for my own education and my university of choice was a private $$$ school that, sadly, did not have much in way of scholarships.

I did 2 years of basics (ALL transferred) while working. I'm not sure any of my employers has ever even known that some of my basic courses weren't taken at the university I graduated from. Absolutely never been a big deal - the degree on the wall is from the place I graduated from. Many of my CC professors also taught at the local university and the classes were small and interactive. Really enjoyed that part!

When I transferred to the university, it seemed like half our dorm took additional basic courses at the community college nearby - we would take them together.

It was the right decision for me and didn't hinder me from earning the degree I wanted from my choice of school OR from being accepted to the graduate school of my choice.

(Incidentally, my DH was doing the same thing and we met there! He chose CC first because he didn't know what he wanted to do when he grew up and he was paying his own way. He also transferred to a great school and now has a successful career in finance.)

As a parent, we would like to have the means for him to go to wherever he chooses. We are in a very different financial state as our parents, and we only have one child. I would have loved to start at my univ of choice, but it wasn't in the cards for me financially. I don't want him to make a decision to do CC just because of finances.

 

[Colleen27]

He said he understands why younger folks are staying away from trades, he’s made a good living, owns his own business and enjoyed his work, but now that he’s getting older it’s getting very hard on his body (while the most physical thing my husband does at work is sit, and he usually fits in a nap).

This is a very real thing to consider. My husband is in the building trades, and at 52, he's still going strong but is very grateful that the 08 recession pushed him into less physically taxing industrial work. He knows a lot of guys who work through pain on a daily basis or who have "retired" well before they were ready because of medical issues (often taking low-wage or gig work to bridge the gap to actual retirement age). Some trades are more physical than others, of course, but many are very hard on a 50- or 60-something body.

That's crazy expensive IMHO. In California Community College has been free since 2017 if you meet certain requirements.
California State University tuition is $7,392 per academic year by comparison.

Ours tracks very closely to the max Pell grant, effectively making it free for low income students. But that's not particularly affordable for middle class families who make too much for the Pell but not by much.

Lol. Meal plans have also become a bit of a money grab at some universities. Those ‘all-you-can-eat’ meal swipes are priced like you *are* eating a lot, so those who aren’t are paying way more than they would pay a la carte.

There's a downside to ala carte too - my daughter's uni only has ala carte plans, which didn't change much for this year from last. But the menu prices in the dining halls have gone up significantly, just like groceries and restaurants in the real world, so a lot of students went from having money leftover and scrambling to use it up at the end of the year to running out with weeks left in the semester.