Community College enrollment plunges, this can't be good

[RamblingMad]

We are starting to explore colleges. I want to encourage my ds to look at community colleges. It seems there is a stigma, does anyone know why? Everyone is pushing their kids to 4 year colleges it seems. When I mention CC most just kind of shrug and you can tell they think it's a bad idea. There are other options like CC, apprentice, take a year off to work and save money etc. Also, they can transfer into a 4 year school after CC.

There seems to be a general attitude that 4 year colleges are the only choice and the best choice. Does it really set kids up for better success if they attend a 4 year school? It is just so expensive and most kids I know that went to college are not even in a job that they went to school for.

Watch the TV show Community. It pokes fun at them.

 

[barkley]

We are starting to explore colleges. I want to encourage my ds to look at community colleges. It seems there is a stigma, does anyone know why? Everyone is pushing their kids to 4 year colleges it seems. When I mention CC most just kind of shrug and you can tell they think it's a bad idea. There are other options like CC, apprentice, take a year off to work and save money etc. Also, they can transfer into a 4 year school after CC.

There seems to be a general attitude that 4 year colleges are the only choice and the best choice. Does it really set kids up for better success if they attend a 4 year school? It is just so expensive and most kids I know that went to college are not even in a job that they went to school for.

i went to both-4 year and community. many who started off at 4 year were back at one of our (then) local community colleges by the following summer or fall and not intentionally. what would happen is they would find themselves shut out of taking a class they needed (freshman being the low folks on the registration priority list and the classes getting filled) so they would pick them up back home during summer break and find they like being in a class of 30 vs 300 taught by an actual professor vs. a grad student (not knocking grad students but in my experience many viewed those jobs as babysitting gigs and didn't put much effort into 'teaching'). many realized they could get their 2 years of general ed done much more quickly vs. the 3 years it was/is on average taking at the university.

now i'm seeing many recent high school grads opting for our local community colleges because of programs they offer that our universities do not-some are high paying vocational trades, some professional w/ written agreements for guaranteed admission into the final year or so that is required at our local universities (so they pay a fraction of the cost and are guaranteed admission into a nursing program vs. the student who attends the university/takes all their gen ed there and has to apply/reapply/reapply...).

if there's a subject/field that interests your kid encourage them to take an evening or summer course through the local community college while in high school-it can give them a taste of what the academic and social scene is like.

Maybe because CC is ‘part time’ and you can’t live on campus…

it's only part time if a student chooses to attend in that manner. full time community college attendance is very common and in some programs there is not the option of attending on a part time basis. as far as living 'on campus'-i know of at least one that had dorms when we lived nearby, and the one closest to us has adjacent to campus apartments that are filled with attending students-granted you won't be living in dorms or on a meal plan but you will also not be paying 4x the going rent for a room vs. a full blown apartment w/a washer/dryer and you can avail yourself of the same eating options/uber eats that the local dorm dwellers on the nearby multiple 4 year schools do after tolerating/tiring of their school's student dining (and you won't be forced to vacate during the winter break or summers).

 

[sam_gordon]

I'm a big believer in three paths to success. First, is vocational school that students begin in high school. Second, is community college for positions like day care worker, CNA, etc. Finally, is full college primarily for people who want to get masters degrees or PhDs. I think America has gotten out of hand with the requirements for entry level jobs.

Wouldn't "full college" be for those who want/need BACHELOR'S degrees? I'd hazard most who attend four year colleges aren't going on to masters or PhDs.

If nothing else, a four year degree does allow you more flexibility to pursue other interests.

 

[mousefan73]

CC's are a funny thing.. They have a stigma because in most cases there are really no admissions requirements when comparing to 4 year schools and they are cheaper as most live at home. So right there you have the "not so smart" and "poor" stigma.. that is how i was back in my days....

The sad thing is, getting your core classes out of the way at a CC is the smartest thing to do financially. I know many who transferred to my 4 year school and had the best grades..Only you dont get the college "experience" first 2 years.

what is odd though and goes against the notion that 1. college is too expensive 2. the economy is bad..... is that almost all of my friends back at home have Seniors who are at the moment doing nationwide "tours" of visiting college campuses. Flyiing to campus to campus... Which in my day was inheard of.. I went to school in state in Illinois at a state school. Most kids did that, a few did other midwest big 10.. a VERY few lucky ones did east coast Tier 1s..
Now it seems like everybody wants to go out of state..
One friend just flew to Kansas and Oklahoma with her kid to visit those campuses.. Nothing special major wise what makes these school so special for the added expense? ( per FB posts they all seemed footbal obesses and the kid is a female so not playing) Another friend flew to NY, OH etc.. to visit campuses.

Maybe I have well off friends, but it's crazy how much people are investing for "an experience".


if that article is correct I wonder if the economy is so split that now you have those with tons of cash to tour the nation to select schools and no money where the time for CC is better invested to go straight to work.

 

[barkley]

That’s why I put part time in quotes - you pay by the class, not by the semester…

not in my experience a million years ago nor in my son's within the past few years-paid identically to the way my oldest's 4 year university was set up (we had overlaps in attendance) which is based on the number of credit units taken. university charges approx $360 per unit up to 12/approx $320 for each unit thereafter, community college (for identical classes which are transferable and accepted by the same university) approx $120 for each unit up to 10/approx $60 for each unit from 11-18. where some HUGE additional savings occur is with fees-community college is $133 all in per quarter vs. university which is closer to $400 (if you live OFF campus-on campus residents have much higher fees and freshman are required to live on campus so figure w/ just the most bare bones meal plan another $13,000-$17,000 more for what equates to 8 month b/c of the breaks they make students vacate the dorms during ).

 

[mjkacmom]

There are downsides to CC. Not all credits transfer, if you transfer to a 4 year college transfers aren’t usually eligible for FA. Mt kids who went OOS had merit bringing down costs closer to in state tuition, no merit offers for transfer students. The quality of instruction tends to be lower at CC (a reason many college students take weed out classes like calculus at CC if possible). All of my kids’ friends went to 4 year colleges, the older ones who graduated have great jobs, including mine. Granted they hung out with kids who worked their butts off in high school and took the most rigorous classes. As for trades, I was talking to my plumber (a close neighbor) who seems to live a very similar lifestyle. He said he understands why younger folks are staying away from trades, he’s made a good living, owns his own business and enjoyed his work, but now that he’s getting older it’s getting very hard on his body (while the most physical thing my husband does at work is sit, and he usually fits in a nap).

 

[RamblingMad]

There are downsides to CC. Not all credits transfer, if you transfer to a 4 year college transfers aren’t usually eligible for FA. Mt kids who went OOS had merit bringing down costs closer to in state tuition, no merit offers for transfer students. The quality of instruction tends to be lower at CC (a reason many college students take weed out classes like calculus at CC if possible). All of my kids’ friends went to 4 year colleges, the older ones who graduated have great jobs, including mine. Granted they hung out with kids who worked their butts off in high school and took the most rigorous classes. As for trades, I was talking to my plumber (a close neighbor) who seems to live a very similar lifestyle. He said he understands why younger folks are staying away from trades, he’s made a good living, owns his own business and enjoyed his work, but now that he’s getting older it’s getting very hard on his body (while the most physical thing my husband does at work is sit, and he usually fits in a nap).

This is the reality. Lots of trades folk start to have declining health in their 40s. My dad got a bad back. One of my friends who is a HVAC tech now has a bad back.

 

[holden]

I haven't read up on whether or not community colleges and 4yr colleges have declining enrollment, but I do know that this year's graduating class were in the early high school years during Covid. I have no doubt that the isolation teens experienced during that time has affected them negatively.

I have seen it in my daughters and their friends. There are many older teens/young adults who are struggling with anxiety/depression, etc. It is crippling for some, and resources can be difficult to access.

Most of the adults I know bounced back from that Covid horror pretty well. I'd say about 1/3 of the teens/young adults I know did the same. The majority are not doing well at all.

I would not be surprised if declining enrollment is partially due to the mental health challenges many teens are facing.

 

[barkley]

The quality of instruction tends to be lower at CC

i think that depends on the individual cc-the ones i went to had the identical professors nights and summers teaching the identical classes they taught days at uc davis, uc berkeley and other nearby highly thought of universities. we have some highly competitive and academically driven public and private universities near us that also have staff teaching at the local community colleges.

if you transfer to a 4 year college transfers aren’t usually eligible for FA.

by this do you mean what the 4 year schools independently offer? if so, i agree but i've also seen it happen far too frequently wherein a student opts for that tempting freshman financial aid offer only to find that each subsequent year they are offered less if not nothing more than whatever is available through non university avenues. my oldest had a friend succumb to this and when she ran the numbers on how much her sophomore ended up costing her (and in researching with other students-her junior and senior would) she ended up transferring to a much lower cost 4 year public only to find out that many units of credit did NOT transfer-which is something students need to look at not only regarding community colleges but 4 year as well b/c 4 year schools can structure classes so that it makes transferring a nightmare (and just enough of a financial detriment that the student will stay on and pay through the nose).

 

[barkley]

I haven't read up on whether or not community colleges and 4yr colleges have declining enrollment, but I do know that this year's graduating class were in the early high school years during Covid. I have no doubt that the isolation teens experienced during that time has affected them negatively.

I have seen it in my daughters and their friends. There are many older teens/young adults who are struggling with anxiety/depression, etc. It is crippling for some, and resources can be difficult to access.

Most of the adults I know bounced back from that Covid horror pretty well. I'd say about 1/3 of the teens/young adults I know did the same. The majority are not doing well at all.

I would not be surprised if declining enrollment is partially due to the mental health challenges many teens are facing.

we've also seen a number of young people who were in this position opt to do 'running start' programs their last 2 years of high school b/c they figured if they were going to have to do distance learning anyway why not knock out their first 2 years of college general ed for free. many of those kids ended up deciding to go into the work force or the military. i agree with the mental health challenges of this age group, it's staggering-my youngest who already deals with being on the spectrum developed terrible agoraphobia and we feel he is very fortunate to have access to mental health services.

 

[mousefan73]

I'm a big believer in three paths to success. First, is vocational school that students begin in high school. Second, is community college for positions like day care worker, CNA, etc. Finally, is full college primarily for people who want to get masters degrees or PhDs. I think America has gotten out of hand with the requirements for entry level jobs.

Full college here in Germany is for studying only your degree studies.. When I got my 4 year Bsc. Sciense in business back at a 4 year state school . I needed core electives in Art and some science so I suffered through Chemistry 101. that is unheard of here... Kids take care of that in "high school" which is 13 years here in most cases. CC back in my day was to take core classes and few 101 prereq classes. Maybe that has changed now.. Here in Germany colleges/universities are completly different depending on study you are done in 3 years.. to even qualifty ( US high school doesnt) you need a a college prep high school A Level type thing.

 

[mousefan73]

the more I think about it, I am surprised CC enrollement didnt increase as I know many GPAs were affected with bad grades when Covid hit.. and many probably didnt meet GPA requirements for 4 yrs..

 

[tcufrog]

I was a community college librarian for the two different community college systems in my area. I mostly met students who were adults returning to college, students who wanted to save money before transferring to a university, and students who went there because if they didn't their parents would make them get a job. Neither offered on-campus housing. The community colleges here have a good reputation and generally, you aren't looked down upon if you go to them because people know that college is expensive and ccs are cheaper.

While I was impressed with the professors I met and the programs offered, I wasn't impressed with the advising because the advisors had no clue how to advise students who were planning to transfer to 4-year universities. I tried to give better advice to the students I met and cautioned them to contact the universities admission dept to find out how many credits would transfer and what they would be used for and to contact the department for their major to find out what classes they really should take at the university so they wouldn't be at a disadvantage. All credits transfer if they transferred to a state school but that didn't mean that they should take every class at the cc. Private schools make their own rules and they vary from school to school.

 

[firefly_ris]

Interesting. I went to CC for two years then transferred to a state university and got my BA there. I'm a self taught front end web developer and was doing client work while I was still in high school and did not really need the degree to do what I still do today. My parents wanted me to have a college degree. They were very nice and paid for my schooling. I kept the cost down by commuting all 4 years. I am generally introverted and an on campus "college experience " was not in any capacity important to me. I did meet my husband there though.

I will likely do the same depending on what my kids think they want to do and encourage a CC first. Or trade school depending on what they are leaning towards. We have some pretty good CCs in the WNY area.

 

[notatallmagic]

Interesting discussion!

Oldest took the most challenging classes in high school that our struggling school system offered. We had/have GREAT science and Spanish teachers, so not surprisingly, she was able to take 8 college course online (her Senior year of high school) during Covid, is now a 3.98GPA Junior in college with a Nursing/Spanish major/minor. The online course were pre-screened by the out of state university she attends so we were sure they would transfer (they were offered by a 4 year college/community college courses didn't transfer out of state).

Youngest is finishing his Junior year in high school. He took one online community college course already; and will be taking 8 more colleges (again, from a 4 year college online) his Senior year. Community college courses here are not as rigorous, and he is also planning to study Nursing. Admission is VERY competitive, so if he doesn't have at least a 3.8 GPA, he will pivot to a branch campus for an RN as compared to a BSN.

Our community college is very hit or miss - quality depends totally on the part-time professor. And college enrollment from our anecdotal experience MUST be down - my youngest is being aggressively courted by some very good schools - and that seems odd to me?

 

[CdnCarrie]

I think community college and university are a bit different up here in Canada.

For the most part community college offers 1 year certificates or 2 year diplomas with a few exceptions with joint programs between them and a local university.
We do not call them associate's degrees and they aren't transferable to a 4 year degree at a university. You can probably transfer some courses but not 2 years worth.

Community college would have specific 1 or 2 year courses in trades or business administration, ECE, lab/x-ray tech - that sort of thing. You don't have majors or take general courses. You're in a specific 2 year course to become a vet tech or a mechanic or a plumber for example.

Most faculty at community colleges aren't professors as they do not have PhDs. They are instructors trained in their profession.

 

[mjkacmom]

the more I think about it, I am surprised CC enrollement didnt increase as I know many GPAs were affected with bad grades when Covid hit.. and many probably didnt meet GPA requirements for 4 yrs..

My twins graduated high school in 2021, the high school was VERY us with grades, we are very close friends with the principal who confirmed that it was very difficult to get poor grades, worse case scenario was p/f with a p. A couple of kids didn‘t graduate in spite of teachers and administrators bending over backwards. I’ve also seen college admission becoming more competitive with stats getting higher every year. Test optional means that unless you’re scoring over 1350 you aren’t submitting, so the average score goes up.

 

[SandyinMonterey]

As a parent whose daughter will a HS 2024 graduate, I can say without hesitation that community college isn't even in anyone's vocabulary, at least where we live. I moved to the area almost 7 years ago when my daughter entered 5th grade. I remember when she was about to enter 6th grade and went to the parent night. The conversation about classes (specifically advanced classes in middle school) went there quickly and then the principal actually hard a presentation of "the road to GA Tech." Yes, in 6th grade. In HS it is not enough to be a straight A honor student. You need to have AP/Honors classes and dual enrollment. As someone who was a nurse, community college doesn't do it anymore. Most employers want a 4 year BSN. Though every graduating nurse takes the same exam whether you went to a community college, nursing school or university....doesn't matter. The nursing programs in community colleges were big draws. You would think it would be different since there is such a need for nurses. From what I hear, even a 4 year degree isn't enough. It's a Masters now. Even on the college visits that we've attended, there is so much talk about getting your masters in 1 year and getting a break on the tuition cost. When school said at 50% reduced tuition. That's what my niece and nephew did and so did my dear friends nieces and nephews (4 of them).

 

[LuvOrlando]

Just saw this, it appears there is an issue with the supply of nurses, not great.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/nurse-...tVariant=cx_166&cx_artPos=1&mod=WTRN#cxrecs_s

I knew someone who strictly did coverage work and who got paid really well for it.

 

[Southernmiss]

Here's the answer- Trade Schools are booming

https://apnews.com/article/community-college-trade-school-075d7e7e2b0dc659920a9be6d054c8b2