Common Core.... someone please explain

[U2_rocks!]

When I first started high school there was a teacher that was telling the class about tricks to do math in your head faster. She would have someone put up

85 + 30 + 24 = ??

and challenge someone to beat her to the answer. I was always about on par with her but most of the kids were way behind.

She then told about the method that is here. I had just always done that. I would say 85 + 15 is 100 and 15+24 is 39 so 139.

So a bunch of people found a way to do math faster in their head out of that lesson. I learned that the rest of the class didn't think that way. I always thought they had (and wondered why everyone else was so slow... It never occured to me they were doing 85
+ 30 is 5+0 is 5 and 8+ 3 is 11 so 115 + 24 so 5+4 is 9 and 2+1 is 3 and 1+0 is 1 so 139.


Edit to add:
I will however agree that there is a time that may be too early to teach this. Because if a child is still struggling with doing it the old way now they will be REALLY lost. Once you get the old way really well the new way is better... but not if it means someone never really masters either way.

In our schools children learn "mental arithmetic" from ages 7 - 11. They learn all sorts of different tricks for arriving at the answer, but they learn them mentally - they don't have to set out all these written workings that look confusing. My kids are now between 11 and 14, and they are doing more complicated math problems. When I am helping them I can see how they each have a preferred method of working out calculations in their heads. My son likes to work in 10s as much as possible. My 11 year old likes to count up. I don't know what my 13 year old does - she's the fastest of them all (faster than I am at times and that's saying something!), and I'm not sure she even stops to think about her methods.

I think it's important for kids to understand numbers and how they work fully. I can tell you though that my son would be lost if he had to look at a long written illustration of something simple - he learns better from hearing and practising, which is why the mental arithmetic worked brilliantly for him. My 13 yo would have learned it no matter how you taught it. My 11 yo is somewhere in between. I hope US schools aren't using only those long written illustrations to teach math concepts - I hope they are using other methods as well.

 

[bellebud]

A teacher I know (and I honestly don't know if she teachers in NYC or NJ), elementary math, told me she thinks the common core is good for the kids, but when she was explaining to me what she is "allowed" and "not allowed" to do, I was really shocked.

She is to present a certain different way each day to the kids on how to solve a problem. So day #1, she teaches the old way we learned addition, then day #2 she teaches a new way, maybe day #3 there's another way. All 3 days, she's NOT ALLOWED to personally help/talk to any of the kids. She's the "presenter", and that's all. So I asked what if a kid isn't getting it on their own… then they're put in ANOTHER CLASS for kids who aren't getting it, and if they still don't get it, they're put in yet another class (down the line, so to speak). I see this as the teachers not being teachers anymore.

I also know an upstate NY math teacher (elementary), who, last year, was explaining to my dh how horrible the new "curriculum" is for the kids, and that he is only allowed to read from a script, NOT help any kids personally (the same thing the other teacher told me), and that if an administrator walked by his room and he was 'talking to the kids' and not reading from the script, he'd get in trouble. He told my dh that he would homeschool his own kids if he could, because he feels the direction of education is becoming more damaging to kids than helpful.

So, from reading this thread, this is because of the curriculum these schools have individually chosen, or is it chosen at the state level?? It's not because of common core??

And I have to say, I'm not against teaching the kids a few ways to learn the math, I only wish that was done all along. When my ds13 was in 2nd grade, he got all the right answers, but couldn't/wouldn't show his work, and was always marked wrong (big, red ink, of course). He was made to feel stupid, when in fact, he "got" the numbers game of math very young, but it wasn't being taught that way yet, so he was wrong, wrong, wrong, when if fact, he was right (we started homeschooling soon after).

Education is an ever-evolving process, but our educational bureaucrats will not admit that. 10 years ago, that other way was the only "right" way, and now today, "this new way" is the only right way. Our education system is truly laughable, changing so much with each generation, and each time proclaiming "we've got it now!"

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Ah, vindication at last... LOL.

I was always terrible at conventional math as a kid. Being called to the blackboard terrified me b/c whenever I had to "show my work" I was invariably told that I had done it wrong, but most of the time I did have the correct answer. When I tried to do the problems by the approved method I was abysmally slow and could never finish the entire test in the time alloted. Teachers were ALWAYS accusing me of cheating because I could get the answer but not really explain how I'd gotten there.

For whatever reason, I always found it quickest to calculate and keep my place mentally by doing just what is described here; visualizing the calculation in relation to the nearest quantity of 10. It appears that I was before my time, LOL.

Apparently I was ahead of the times, too. No one taught me to do math that way (I graduated in 98), I just figured out on my own that it was easier. I don't see how else you could do math without paper or a calculator. Are you really supposed to visualize an equation, work the numbers by column, remember which numbers are where while you carry the one...? It seems like there's an awful lot of room for error that way.

The thing I hated most about math was the "show your work" part. I didn't understand what work there was to show when I had arrived at the answer in my head. So, I'd write in the answer first and then go back and fill in the steps I had supposedly used to get there or, in cases where I hadn't memorized the steps that had been taught, I'd try to write it out as I saw it in my head. Then my paper would end up looking like the examples TAX GUY posted throughout the thread, which no one else could understand. I remember my best friend arguing with a teacher on my behalf after he accused me of cheating -- "She has her own way of doing math! Obviously she knows how to get the right answer! YOU'RE the one who doesn't understand!" Lol.

 

[sam_gordon]

In a new survey underwritten by the children's publisher Scholastic and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, both Common Core supporters, 79% of teachers say they feel "very" or "somewhat" prepared to teach under the new standards, up from 71% last year.


You take this seriously?

How about we hear about test scores from the state who implemented CC first...

Overall student performance showed improvement from 2013, with the percentage of proficient and distinguished students increasing in most subjects at every grade level. Students in groups that historically had achievement gaps — which includes ethnic minorities, special education students, those considered to be in poverty and those with limited English proficiency — also are performing at higher levels across multiple content areas and grade levels, state education officials said.

Source

From the same article...

High school juniors taking the ACT exam last spring recorded the highest scores since all juniors started taking the test in 2008, state education officials said.

Schools and students ARE improving (overall, of course there are exceptions).

 

[nugov2]

A teacher I know (and I honestly don't know if she teachers in NYC or NJ), elementary math, told me she thinks the common core is good for the kids, but when she was explaining to me what she is "allowed" and "not allowed" to do, I was really shocked.

She is to present a certain different way each day to the kids on how to solve a problem. So day #1, she teaches the old way we learned addition, then day #2 she teaches a new way, maybe day #3 there's another way. All 3 days, she's NOT ALLOWED to personally help/talk to any of the kids. She's the "presenter", and that's all. So I asked what if a kid isn't getting it on their own… then they're put in ANOTHER CLASS for kids who aren't getting it, and if they still don't get it, they're put in yet another class (down the line, so to speak). I see this as the teachers not being teachers anymore.

I also know an upstate NY math teacher (elementary), who, last year, was explaining to my dh how horrible the new "curriculum" is for the kids, and that he is only allowed to read from a script, NOT help any kids personally (the same thing the other teacher told me), and that if an administrator walked by his room and he was 'talking to the kids' and not reading from the script, he'd get in trouble. He told my dh that he would homeschool his own kids if he could, because he feels the direction of education is becoming more damaging to kids than helpful.

So, from reading this thread, this is because of the curriculum these schools have individually chosen, or is it chosen at the state level?? It's not because of common core??

And I have to say, I'm not against teaching the kids a few ways to learn the math, I only wish that was done all along. When my ds13 was in 2nd grade, he got all the right answers, but couldn't/wouldn't show his work, and was always marked wrong (big, red ink, of course). He was made to feel stupid, when in fact, he "got" the numbers game of math very young, but it wasn't being taught that way yet, so he was wrong, wrong, wrong, when if fact, he was right (we started homeschooling soon after).

Education is an ever-evolving process, but our educational bureaucrats will not admit that. 10 years ago, that other way was the only "right" way, and now today, "this new way" is the only right way. Our education system is truly laughable, changing so much with each generation, and each time proclaiming "we've got it now!"

And that is outrageous and a limitation set by her district and honestly I would never teach that way. I don't know why any teacher would. Honestly a teacher is observed only a couple of times a year depending on how long they have been teaching so the administrators would have no way of knowing if she was personally helping them further and the fact that she isn't seems to speak volumes about her. When I was teaching I had a child on an IEP, but it wasn't to get services in Language Arts. I'm not going to go into all the particulars, but he needed help in that subject. He didn't qualify based on an awful assessment IMO, so he didn't get resource. I had a f/t para in my class so I had her follow the same program I knew others were getting with this child in the back of the class when it wouldn't impact the students she was there to work with. It wasn't what I was told to do, but it was what was right to do for this child. Sorry a good teacher does what is right for their students sometimes even if it goes against "policy" within reason. I think it is reasonable to not stand in front of a class reading a prompt like a robot without changing what is said and what you do for the best interest of your students. Again, CC has brought to light how many educators and administrators don't belong in that field. Who are lazy and want to buy curriculum in a box instead of writing one that suits the needs of their students or are lazy and will only teach using prompts instead of researching and using solid lessons that will help their students understand what they need to so they can be successful. I can't imagine standing in front of a class of children and telling them sorry I can't help you or speak to you beyond my prompt Susie...good luck figuring this out on your own. Disgusting


No teacher is teaching in that manner in our district and I know the ones I am friends with are not either. This is another example I've seen thrown around a lot and many districts use this prompt format where you are told what to say or do, but good districts are not doing it this way. For whatever reason there are certain states that are just executing this so poorly and I don't get it. It is unacceptable for sure, but again if all districts aren't doing it this way then it is obviously not a requirement so that argument is invalid.

 

[TAX GUY]

Apparently I was ahead of the times, too. No one taught me to do math that way (I graduated in 98), I just figured out on my own that it was easier. I don't see how else you could do math without paper or a calculator. Are you really supposed to visualize an equation, work the numbers by column, remember which numbers are where while you carry the one...? It seems like there's an awful lot of room for error that way.

The thing I hated most about math was the "show your work" part. I didn't understand what work there was to show when I had arrived at the answer in my head. So, I'd write in the answer first and then go back and fill in the steps I had supposedly used to get there or, in cases where I hadn't memorized the steps that had been taught, I'd try to write it out as I saw it in my head. Then my paper would end up looking like the examples TAX GUY posted throughout the thread, which no one else could understand. I remember my best friend arguing with a teacher on my behalf after he accused me of cheating -- "She has her own way of doing math! Obviously she knows how to get the right answer! YOU'RE the one who doesn't understand!" Lol.

That's the thing for me with this..... I'm not saying its a wrong method, I'm just trying to better understand it. If it can't or isn't explained in terms others can understand it, how are they supposed to learn it?

 

[sam_gordon]

That's the thing for me with this..... I'm not saying its a wrong method, I'm just trying to better understand it. If it can't or isn't explained in terms others can understand it, how are they supposed to learn it?

But is the bolded a problem with the subject or the teacher?

 

[nugov2]

That's the thing for me with this..... I'm not saying its a wrong method, I'm just trying to better understand it. If it can't or isn't explained in terms others can understand it, how are they supposed to learn it?

It is if you are in a good school district. Go to your school and find out how they are implementing it. My dd's class has changed very little in terms of instruction from BCC and ACC. If I didn't know CC was fully rolled out and didn't have a child in school 2 years younger than my dd I'd really have no idea. My children are still receiving quality instruction from quality teachers in an amazing district. They are both flourishing and as I stated previously not one parent I know is complaining and that speaks volume. When there are other changes going on in our district our FB page run by a community parent not the school lights up with people upset about it(ie when changing K from Full day to half day was a rumor people were outraged..it didn't happen). Not one peep has been made about CC.

 

[TAX GUY]

But is the bolded a problem with the subject or the teacher?

Purple?







I would think its the instructor. I say this because recently my son struggled with some math problems. He explained what he thought the teacher said but didn't grasp it. I then explained it in a way I learned and that I knew he would understand (after all, I'm his dad and know what he'll get and what he won't). As soon as I put it into terms and a situation he could relate to, he got it. Same math problems, just a different way to explain it.

 

[sam_gordon]

Purple?







I would think its the instructor. I say this because recently my son struggled with some math problems. He explained what he thought the teacher said but didn't grasp it. I then explained it in a way I learned and that I knew he would understand (after all, I'm his dad and know what he'll get and what he won't). As soon as I put it into terms and a situation he could relate to, he got it. Same math problems, just a different way to explain it.

I agree with you. And it's what nugov has said in many of these CC threads. However, there are people who are convinced the issue is the subject being taught, not HOW it is being taught.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

That's the thing for me with this..... I'm not saying its a wrong method, I'm just trying to better understand it. If it can't or isn't explained in terms others can understand it, how are they supposed to learn it?

That's always going to be a problem as long as math is only taught one way -- some people will get it, some people won't. If we want every kid to "get it", teachers are going to have to explain it from different angles using different methods until they land on the one that clicks for that particular student. To some degree, I think peoples' brains are wired differently when it comes to grasping concepts.

Rote memorization, orders of operation, and doing equations by steps were always a clunky and burdensome way of doing math for me. It was always easier and faster to just go to the answer in my head. The curveball here is that I'm pretty sure I have a form of synesthesia. At the risk of sounding like a lunatic, calendars, letters, and numbers appear as "maps" in my mind, highlighted by moving shades of light and darkness depending on "where I am" on the map. I mentally rotate that 3D map to hold my place on a number and then "measure" the distance to the next number. Math is very much a spatial concept for me. To be honest, if you gave me a piece of paper and asked me to do long division, I wouldn't know the first thing to do. I've long since forgotten the "steps" of math that I was taught in school. But, I could still give you the answer. It's simply a matter of going to the map and plucking the right number. I'm not a mathematical savant by any means, but when I worked in medicine this is how I calculated drug dosages and I managed not to kill anyone.

Will my way of understanding math be too abstract for someone who doesn't visualize numbers the way I do? I have no idea because I can't even grasp how math could be done without a mental map... Which is probably why it's best to teach it using a variety of methods.

 

[jodifla]

The Kentucky story posted is weak and without a lot of facts on the testing scores. It lumps alot of other things in there. It is interesting they added in an arts category, which even the story indicates is meant to goose the ratings. Also, they didn't actually release the results of statewide average scores. If they'd been good, they would have.

It looks like the Kentucky state educational spin machine is in full force. It will be interesting to see what the numbers look like when people can really analyze them. The first numbers out of NY had stories with "Test results soar" only to find out in the next days that they had cooked the numbers by changing the passing rate:

hee's another look at the story:

http://www.courier-journal.com/stor...y-reveals-schools-rating-key-issues/16606335/

After disappointing scores in 2012 and modest improvements in 2013, Holliday said the state's increases this year were heartening and come as teachers are beginning to learn and adapt to the standards. Elementary students in particular are showing promising improvements, he said.

"I'm still concerned about middle school math. I think we're not seeing the movement in seventh- and eighth-grade we need to see," he said. "There's a lot of work to do, but there are good signs."

Writing and language mechanics saw declines statewide.

 

[sam_gordon]

nevermind.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Sorry if this has been said; I'm responding before reading the entire thread.

This is NOT how most clerks make change. It's how those of us over the age of 30 (give or take) were taught how to make change. THESE days, the clerks are taught to ring in the total given ($20.00) and give whatever the register tells them to give. Kids aren't taught to count back money anymore.

Someone else mentioned this, and I indicated that when you have students who volunteer to sell tickets or snacks or candygrams for your drama club, etc., you teach them how to count back money.

 

[Ginny Favers]

I'd heard so much about how horrible Common Core was that I was completely shocked when I went to conference and both of my kids' teachers told me that they thought it was very good and that their students seemed to be doing much better under the method.

Some of the problems make me scratch my head, though. That's my only big issue. Is that when my 3rd grader has a question, I have no clue how to help her.

 

[jodifla]

I'd heard so much about how horrible Common Core was that I was completely shocked when I went to conference and both of my kids' teachers told me that they thought it was very good and that their students seemed to be doing much better under the method.

Some of the problems make me scratch my head, though. That's my only big issue. Is that when my 3rd grader has a question, I have no clue how to help her.

They aren't really allowed to say anything else in many cases. Teachers at my school have been pretty much muzzled from any kind of opinions other that "It's great" or staying silent.

 

[nugov2]

They aren't really allowed to say anything else in many cases. Teachers at my school have been pretty much muzzled from any kind of opinions other that "It's great" or staying silent.

I understand and fully believe that CC is a failure in your school and is also a failure in many, many other places because of poor implementation. I also think that PARCC and all other tests need to be taken with a grain of salt and only used as one part of assessing both a student and a teacher's success. I am just curious if you believe that there are actually schools where teachers have no problem with CC and view it like any other shift in education. That they are having success with their students and still teaching great lesson. That like all other shifts in education CC comes with pros and cons and because they have supportive administrators are continuing to implement great lesson for their students just as they did before CC. Do you see at all that all examples you show either relate to the testing(which I think nobody in education has ever loved) or to districts with administrators and teachers who are implementing it wrong and that no where does it say CC must be taught with these prompts and these specific lessons? If not, can you answer how all of the districts I have friends in do not have to follow these techniques and why none of them have used a single lesson similar to the awful lessons posted on why CC isn't working? Are we in some kind of bubble where we are exempt from the "rules" of how you implement the standards? I don't need you to link any other websites with statistics on testing failures, parents who hate CC or lessons that are awful, but just answer if you think there are in fact schools doing it right who are teaching their students successfully under these new standards or if that is not possible and somehow these schools that are successful are somehow sidestepping the actual rules to implementing CC.

 

[Lolsmum]

I'm an American living in the UK. My kids are not affected by Common Core, obviously, but my friends and families back in the US are and I've been paying attention to the issue for a long while now. Here's my take:

My kids do the same general maths strategies over here and I love it. Because it's not a political issue here and homework is much less frequent, it doesn't seem to be causing anything like the issues with the parents here that I see in the US (we have our own education-based political issues here). I have shown most of the examples I've seen on FB and other places to my kids and they have no problems with them. My kids are 7 and almost 9.

Secondly, I grew up in the US, and moving from one state to another was really not fun because every subject was being taught to different standards and it meant a lot of repeating and gaps in my education. My sisters moved more often than I did and the major differences in state standards really affected them. Gaps here and then in history or different works of literature being covered aren't too difficult to deal with, but missing out on math topics which are then built on directly is extremely difficult. Having a single set of standards across the US is actually a great idea.

Standardised testing is a whole separate issue to the standards themselves. I do think the testing is probably over the top.

I also don't know how one can compare the old and new systems (including both Common Core and the curricula used) without using the same tests to do so. Haven't the tests changed with the introduction of Common Core?

 

[Colleen27]

I'd heard so much about how horrible Common Core was that I was completely shocked when I went to conference and both of my kids' teachers told me that they thought it was very good and that their students seemed to be doing much better under the method.

Some of the problems make me scratch my head, though. That's my only big issue. Is that when my 3rd grader has a question, I have no clue how to help her.

That may or may not be how they really feel, though. Our public school teachers are being told to "reassure" parents and "promote" the new curriculum in official memos, so no matter how they really feel about the subject you'll find many of them talking it up at conferences.

That said, I think there are teachers on both sides of the issues. At our private school, which has not adopted Common Core, I've talked to teachers who think it is terrible and are happy to see so many parents coming to our school as an alternative (enrollment is up 11% from last year), and I've talked to others who think it is a great idea.

However, even the fans of CC agree that there are issues with the way it is being rolled out, particularly with the all-at-once changeover that threw kids into CC curriculum mid-stream. The problem we're seeing at the public elem is that one year was the old way and the next was 100% common core... so kids in, for example, 4th grade have a curriculum that assumes prior knowledge of everything contained in Common Core math up to 3rd grade but haven't necessarily learned some of those skills. And in some areas the gaps are significant - shifts in when major concepts like fractions are introduced or expectations of familiarity with problem solving methods like the above-mentioned counting-up arithmetic that students thrown into CC in mid/upper elem have never seen before.

 

[nugov2]

That may or may not be how they really feel, though. Our public school teachers are being told to "reassure" parents and "promote" the new curriculum in official memos, so no matter how they really feel about the subject you'll find many of them talking it up at conferences.

That said, I think there are teachers on both sides of the issues. At our private school, which has not adopted Common Core, I've talked to teachers who think it is terrible and are happy to see so many parents coming to our school as an alternative (enrollment is up 11% from last year), and I've talked to others who think it is a great idea.

However, even the fans of CC agree that there are issues with the way it is being rolled out, particularly with the all-at-once changeover that threw kids into CC curriculum mid-stream. The problem we're seeing at the public elem is that one year was the old way and the next was 100% common core... so kids in, for example, 4th grade have a curriculum that assumes prior knowledge of everything contained in Common Core math up to 3rd grade but haven't necessarily learned some of those skills. And in some areas the gaps are significant - shifts in when major concepts like fractions are introduced or expectations of familiarity with problem solving methods like the above-mentioned counting-up arithmetic that students thrown into CC in mid/upper elem have never seen before.

Again, I think that is a failure on the districts part. Our district began rewriting and slowly rolling out the standards in 2011.(I sat on a district wide foundation and I believe they pretty much new by the end of the summer of 2010 that this was happening and began to prepare. They compared our current standards to what was being proposed and to see where they would need changes.) They got committees together and began to work on writing the curriculum one area at a time in 2012 they rolled out some standards(but in K and 1st had full roll out to catch the younger kids earlier), in 2013 the it was in full roll out with end of the year assessment and reevaluation to make any tweaks and this year is full implementation. My son was the first K class to have this roll out and there was a difference for sure, but he had no issues. I think the reason our parents and teachers are so happy is because of the amazing way our district handled it. I honestly can see why people are upset if it was implemented mid year or by some of the lessons being posted. If my kids were exposed to teachers reading prompts and some of the other crap out there I would be upset too. I think districts were dragging their feet with the hope that the state would not adopt the standards. I know in the meetings there was talk about that, but our district decided that either way this was a good thing to look at every standard and what we currently had and raise the bar if it needed to be. If the standards were not adopted by our state, well than at least they knew we had looked at each subject and put together the best curriculum for our students and if they were adopted they were ready to go. The thing is, when you look at the standards they are not bad. I think maybe they just need to help states failing and give them more time to really sit down and put together the best curriculum for their students. I don't understand why they can't allow another 2 year grace period for these states struggling and take the districts with success as models to how CC should really look. I don't think it is the fault of CC they are failing, but the fault of the administrators. Even so, not allowing them to have more time is a disservice to the students in those districts.