Common Core.... someone please explain

[OceanAnnie]

Can anyone explain common core to me? It's a hot topic locally (again) and I have tried to read about and have seen examples.... but I just don't get it (the math part). My son goes to a private school and they don't use it however lots of friends and their kids attend public and are struggling with it.

I have always enjoyed and did well with math, but these practices don't make ANY sense to me.

How is it in your area? Is there an easy(ier) way to understand this method? How are others in your area dealing with it? Like it? Hate it?

I read somewhere there has been discussion and steps to include common core in college entrance exams. I don't know how far that has gone. It's kind of controversial. So even if you son isn't exposed to it now in private school he may be further down the road. I don't know.

Just thought I'd share a little bit of what I have read about it.

 

[sam_gordon]

I add, subtract, and multiply large numbers in my head in this manner. But you know what? I've always been very strong in math - like 99+ percentile strong. And I've always had jobs that were math centric, so I've had many years to practice this.

Trying to explain this to someone like my wife - who has always struggled in math - is pointless. She looks at me like I have 2 heads. I think it's a useful tool under the right circumstances. And it may help some who struggle with math. But I also believe for some others who struggle with math, this method only makes it harder.

I'm guessing kids have been confused by various teaching methods since the beginning of schools. It's also possible if your wife was exposed to this method in early elementary that she'd pick it up a lot easier.

 

[TAX GUY]

Hmmm... I'd always choose private over public school if money were not an issue. However, in our situation we just don't want to give up the things we'd have to give up in order to send them (out here it would be 50k - 60k a year for both kids). If things got very bad we would make sacrifices and send them.

This year, so far so good.

Our "plan" was to use the HS tuition money to help him with college. Looks like I'll be putting off my mid-life crisis Corvette purchase a few more years until he's out of college.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I'm guessing kids have been confused by various teaching methods since the beginning of schools. It's also possible if your wife was exposed to this method in early elementary that she'd pick it up a lot easier.

The problem is the steps required to achieve the answer in that method are more difficult to understand than the basic math is. And in he end, you still have to do the math.

It's like asking someone who struggles in English to diagram a sentence in an effort to make them better understand the language. It doesn't make sense to them.

 

[TAX GUY]

That's actually how most retail clerks are taught to make change, if you really think about it.

Clerk: "The total is $3.37"

You hand clerk a 20.

Clerk hands you 63 cents: "That's 4."
Clerk hands you a dollar bill: "That's 5."
Clerk hands you a 5 dollar bill: "That's 10."
Cleark hands you a 10 dollar bill: "And that's 20."

Bam. There's you $16.63 change.

You and I (and many older folks like us) would use this logic and it makes perfect sense in your example. But, a few problems:

1. most retail clerks now simply look at what the register tells them the change is. Apply this method on your next purchase and after the amount is keyed in, give the clerk two quarters and see what happens.

2. no one uses cash anymore so no need to count change.

 

[gwynne]

.

 

[sam_gordon]

The problem is the steps required to achieve the answer in that method are more difficult to understand than the basic math is. And in he end, you still have to do the math.

It's like asking someone who struggles in English to diagram a sentence in an effort to make them better understand the language. It doesn't make sense to them.

English is my one and only language (I took three years of German in HS, but don't remember much). I couldn't diagram a sentence now, OR when it was taught to me in HS.

There is not going to be one method that will work for every student. So what's wrong with utilizing multiple methods?

 

[pryncess527]

It's like asking someone who struggles in English to diagram a sentence in an effort to make them better understand the language. It doesn't make sense to them.

That is EXACTLY how I got a stronger understanding of the language.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

English is my one and only language (I took three years of German in HS, but don't remember much). I couldn't diagram a sentence now, OR when it was taught to me in HS.

There is not going to be one method that will work for every student. So what's wrong with utilizing multiple methods?

There is nothing wrong with utilizing multiple methods as long as you recognize which methods are working & which are not, and adjust accordingly.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

That is EXACTLY how I got a stronger understanding of the language.

The key word there is "stronger". You didn't start with the diagram on day one.

 

[aprilchem]

None of the examples given are really Common Core (as other PP have stated, Common Core is a set of standards, not a teaching method), but I just wanted to chime in to say that I LOVE the new way that math is being taught. I'm a college professor in a STEM field who teaches a lot of into pre-med courses, and I also have three children in school who are taught by the "new" math method. The new method helps them to understand what is going on rather than using rote memorization to learn how to do math. If they understand, then they can apply what they've learned to a more complicated situation where the pathway to proceed is not inherently obvious.

By contract, the vast majority (I'd say 80%) of my current pre-med freshmen, who were taught by the old method, can't think through a math problem. They want me to do an example and then have them repeat the SAME problem, just with different numbers, over and over again. They can't think outside the box, which is unfortunate.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

You and I (and many older folks like us) would use this logic and it makes perfect sense in your example. But, a few problems:

1. most retail clerks now simply look at what the register tells them the change is. Apply this method on your next purchase and after the amount is keyed in, give the clerk two quarters and see what happens.

2. no one uses cash anymore so no need to count change.

Those are both true. Although my wife's middle school drama club sells candy grams and snacks at their shows, and they don't have registers. And they don't take plastic.

 

[nugov2]

It is supposed to promote a deeper understanding of math. The Common Core approach examines a problem multiple ways.

In my experience, going on the second year with Common Core, if you have a good math teacher who has embraced Common Core and KNOWS how to teach it, all is well. If you have someone who does not know the first thing about teaching math, or has not embraced the Common Core, well, things might not go well.

This! The standards are common from district to district and state to state. This is a good thing so that students moving from one area to another don't suffer by being either way behind or much further along. Some teachers/districts are doing it right, while others are teaching it in weird ways that make no sense. Others rolled it out too fast with little thought and taking huge leaps in material their students weren't ready for. We have had it rolled out in all subjects(but they took a few years slowly implementing them before the total roll out) and have noticed only that the bar has been raised a little from where my older dd was compared to my younger son is you do a grade comparison. The lesson are still well thought out and well executed. There have been none of the crazy examples shown online by people against CC used in our schools. Our school had a team of parents, teachers and administrators who worked together to develop a curriculum that taught the standards in a well thought out and well executed way.

Some districts are buying curriculum in a box programs that dictate everything the teacher must do, right down to what they should be saying. IMO that is a teacher and district problem. I don't know why anyone good teacher would teach any of those lessons I have seen posted online. It makes no sense. I was a 3rd grade teacher and any teacher I know have zero problem with CC and this spans multiple school districts. IMO CC has brought to light how many administrators and teacher have no business teaching/working with our children in this country. Now the new PARCC test is something completely different. Not a fan of standardized testing and I don't know any teacher who is. This test seems to be a big failure. Hopefully it will be gone soon.

 

[pryncess527]

There is nothing wrong with utilizing multiple methods as long as you recognize which methods are working & which are not, and adjust accordingly.

But the point is these methods that make no sense to you DO make sense for some. So we can't say they aren't working universally and need to be adjusted. I have spoken with MANY parents who love many of these new math teaching methods, their kids are really grasping it for the first time. There is no harm in having students exposed to a wide variety of methods. Some will click, others won't.

And, FWIW, yeah, my school did start to diagram sentences in elementary school, so it was a fundamental part of my learning English from almost the very start of my formal education. It got intense in high school, but was always a tool for helping us understand parts of speech.

 

[sam_gordon]

There is nothing wrong with utilizing multiple methods as long as you recognize which methods are working & which are not, and adjust accordingly.

Agreed. But what happens when Timmy, Suzy, John, and Emily understand "Concept A" but not "Concept B", but Zack, Celeste, Charlie, and Taylor understand "Concept B" but not "Concept A"?

 

[pryncess527]

Agreed. But what happens when Timmy, Suzy, John, and Emily understand "Concept A" but not "Concept B", but Zack, Celeste, Charlie, and Taylor understand "Concept B" but not "Concept A"?

What do you think needs to happen? Is this not a common occurrence in schools since the beginning of time?

Some of my friends learned to read using phonetics. I was horrible at phonetics, still don't get the symbols. We both learned to read though, and both progressed through school utilizing the skill of reading, regardless which teaching method got us there.

 

[nugov2]

Here's another one I didn't understand:

We were using this method back when I was teaching in 2000 before I left after I had dd. It is a good concept to know, again how it is taught is another thing.

 

[sam_gordon]

What do you think needs to happen? Is this not a common occurrence in schools since the beginning of time?

Some of my friends learned to read using phonetics. I was horrible at phonetics, still don't get the symbols. We both learned to read though, and both progressed through school utilizing the skill of reading, regardless which teaching method got us there.

Read the context of what I said. I was responding to another poster who said if methods aren't working, they should be adjusted.

I have no problems with teaching different methods and I think it's a good idea.

 

[TAX GUY]

But the point is these methods that make no sense to you DO make sense for some. So we can't say they aren't working universally and need to be adjusted. I have spoken with MANY parents who love many of these new math teaching methods, their kids are really grasping it for the first time. There is no harm in having students exposed to a wide variety of methods. Some will click, others won't.

Agreed. But what happens when Timmy, Suzy, John, and Emily understand "Concept A" but not "Concept B", but Zack, Celeste, Charlie, and Taylor understand "Concept B" but not "Concept A"?

Both of these. That's my question.... if some got and others did not get the old methods and some are getting and others are not getting the new method, whats the difference? Again, I'm all for multiple methods as that's how I was taught. Every person needs to know why that is the answer and how to get it. Exactly how they get there is up to them (in a sense). As long as they understand how and they can constantly get there.

I guess my trouble is what I've seen as examples and what others have and are going through. Many of the comments I'm seeing and hearing is that even if Johnny or Suzy get the correct answer and show THEIR method, if its not the way it was taught, then its wrong?

 

[OceanAnnie]

The counting up subtraction method just looks like a convoluted take on checking your work (inverse operation).