Common Core.... someone please explain

We homeschool, so I don't have to follow common core and I'm free to choose whichever curriculum I want, and I choose to teach my kids in a manner very similar to those posted examples. (in fact I think one is from Singapore which is one of the programs we use)
It was difficult to grasp at first, and I had to teach myself so I could teach my kids, but man do I see the benefit! My kids have developed an incredible number sense as a result. My youngest son basically taught himself to add double digit numbers because he understood place value so well, and my 6th grader can do long division in her head. I understand math better as a result of teaching them!
Every time I see those examples posted on facebook I cringe, because out of context it seems like a ridiculous way to teach math, but if you understand the process it makes plenty of sense.
 
But the point is these methods that make no sense to you DO make sense for some. So we can't say they aren't working universally and need to be adjusted. I have spoken with MANY parents who love many of these new math teaching methods, their kids are really grasping it for the first time. There is no harm in having students exposed to a wide variety of methods. Some will click, others won't.

And, FWIW, yeah, my school did start to diagram sentences in elementary school, so it was a fundamental part of my learning English from almost the very start of my formal education. It got intense in high school, but was always a tool for helping us understand parts of speech.

Where did I say it made no sense to anyone!? And if you read all my posts, you'd see I use this method (self taught) myself & have for years.


My point is simply that for some kids you have taken a difficult subject and made it MORE difficult. And continuing to cram it down their throats isn't going to help. These kids need to be allowed to use traditional math to achieve the answers if that's what works best for them.

As for the sentence diagram, you've completely missed the point if you're talking about elementary ages kids who grew up with English as a first language. That's not at all the example I intended when I said "someone who doesn't understand English".
 
Read the context of what I said. I was responding to another poster who said if methods aren't working, they should be adjusted.

I have no problems with teaching different methods and I think it's a good idea.

I stand corrected, I did misinterpret. Sorry! :flower3:
 
I guess my trouble is what I've seen as examples and what others have and are going through. Many of the comments I'm seeing and hearing is that even if Johnny or Suzy get the correct answer and show THEIR method, if its not the way it was taught, then its wrong? :confused3

Well because in that scenario what is being taught isn't the answer to the equation, but the process to get to the answer. So, yeah, if the process used wasn't the one being taught that day then that kid should be marked wrong.
 

We homeschool, so I don't have to follow common core and I'm free to choose whichever curriculum I want, and I choose to teach my kids in a manner very similar to those posted examples. (in fact I think one is from Singapore which is one of the programs we use)
It was difficult to grasp at first, and I had to teach myself so I could teach my kids, but man do I see the benefit! My kids have developed an incredible number sense as a result. My youngest son basically taught himself to add double digit numbers because he understood place value so well, and my 6th grader can do long division in her head. I understand math better as a result of teaching them!
Every time I see those examples posted on facebook I cringe, because out of context it seems like a ridiculous way to teach math, but if you understand the process it makes plenty of sense.

But I believe that's the disconnect..... understanding the process, whatever that may be.
 
But I believe that's the disconnect..... understanding the process, whatever that may be.

I'd hope that teachers are teaching their students so they understand the process! They really aren't any more difficult to grasp than other math strategies.
I do feel for parents! I'm not affiliated with public schools, so I don't know how it is being implemented, but they really should have training sessions for parents if they don't already. It is not something that is going to be intuitive at first if it's not the way you were taught and I imagine that could make helping kids with homework a frustrating struggle.
 
I'd hope that teachers are teaching their students so they understand the process! They really aren't any more difficult to grasp than other math strategies.
I do feel for parents! I'm not affiliated with public schools, so I don't know how it is being implemented, but they really should have training sessions for parents if they don't already. It is not something that is going to be intuitive at first if it's not the way you were taught and I imagine that could make helping kids with homework a frustrating struggle.

Our district has asked us NOT to work with our kids on math at home (other than basic addition subtraction of numbers 10 and under). They send no math work home--we just see the graded work and tests. They specifically told us that we would confuse our children if we taught them math how we learned as children. They are using "Singapore Math."

FWIW--I have no issue with them using a different method. My children are being taught this method from kindergarten, so it's the only method they know. I do worry that when they get to higher grades and they need assistance, I will have no idea what they are doing. Already, looking at some of my daughter's 3rd grade math tests, I can barely decipher what is going on. I just hope they aren't being used as guinea pigs and in 10 years (when they are in high school) it's discovered that "singapore math" was a bad choice.
 
/
Our district has asked us NOT to work with our kids on math at home (other than basic addition subtraction of numbers 10 and under). They send no math work home--we just see the graded work and tests. They specifically told us that we would confuse our children if we taught them math how we learned as children. They are using "Singapore Math."

FWIW--I have no issue with them using a different method. My children are being taught this method from kindergarten, so it's the only method they know. I do worry that when they get to higher grades and they need assistance, I will have no idea what they are doing. Already, looking at some of my daughter's 3rd grade math tests, I can barely decipher what is going on. I just hope they aren't being used as guinea pigs and in 10 years (when they are in high school) it's discovered that "singapore math" was a bad choice.
FWIW, Singapore math has been around since 1998.
 
FWIW, Singapore math has been around since 1998.

Yup! We think it's a great program in this house! We throw a few other things into the mix, but it's our primary math curriculum.
I think part of the push for this type of curriculum in public schools was the PISA test. If I remember correctly it tests not only what a child knows, but also their ability to apply what they know to problems they've never encountered before. I think that's one of the reasons other countries kicked our tushies in math. Our former system relied heavily on memorization, but that's pretty useless if you are trying reason your way through a problem you've never seen before. That's why I chose Singapore for my kids. I want them to understand the concepts so that they can apply them as necessary, not to just rely on the memorization of a formula or process.
 
I have 2 kids (ds-8th grade, dd- 4th grade) who are both learning the new math via the common core standards. My dh is high school math teacher and department chair. I'm horrible at math. Thankfully, my kids both inherited dh' math prowess and don't struggle at all with the standards. My dh has adapted to this method of teaching and with teaching students who have been taught the new method in lower grades.

The only problem I have is that it's really hard for me (who was taught the regular old math in the 80's) to help my kids with their math homework. I can get the answer, but not the way they are taught. Since they're required to show their work, I'm of no help whatsoever. Thankfully, dh is there to help with math and I've got social studies and language arts covered!
 
FWIW, Singapore math has been around since 1998.

Yup! We think it's a great program in this house! We throw a few other things into the mix, but it's our primary math curriculum.
I think part of the push for this type of curriculum in public schools was the PISA test. If I remember correctly it tests not only what a child knows, but also their ability to apply what they know to problems they've never encountered before. I think that's one of the reasons other countries kicked our tushies in math. Our former system relied heavily on memorization, but that's pretty useless if you are trying reason your way through a problem you've never seen before. That's why I chose Singapore for my kids. I want them to understand the concepts so that they can apply them as necessary, not to just rely on the memorization of a formula or process.

Good! I have no issue with them learning a new (to our district) method. And my kids have caught on very easily.
 
Ah, vindication at last... LOL.

I was always terrible at conventional math as a kid. Being called to the blackboard terrified me b/c whenever I had to "show my work" I was invariably told that I had done it wrong, but most of the time I did have the correct answer. When I tried to do the problems by the approved method I was abysmally slow and could never finish the entire test in the time alloted. Teachers were ALWAYS accusing me of cheating because I could get the answer but not really explain how I'd gotten there.

For whatever reason, I always found it quickest to calculate and keep my place mentally by doing just what is described here; visualizing the calculation in relation to the nearest quantity of 10. It appears that I was before my time, LOL.

When I was really young and had not yet achieved precision in my penmanship, one of the things that helped me immensely with math was being able to work the problems on graph paper. That helped me to keep the digits in the correct place no matter how long the column ended up being. I did this with my own kids as well, and my DS, who has dysgraphia, found it a saving grace. The thing is, EVERY time I bring it up as an option the teacher in question will be horrified and accept it only temporarily and very grudgingly. For the life of me I really cannot understand why graph paper is so evil. :confused3

As to the implementation of Common Core, I'm simply thrilled. I moved around a lot as a child (Dad was a civilian military contractor) and the pace I encountered in various parts of the US was all over the map. Sometimes what I knew was two years ahead, and sometimes a year behind. I got very bored when I had to do things over as busywork until the class caught up. Normalizing what subjects and concepts should be mastered in which grades will be a huge help for kids whose families move frequently.
 
The problem is the steps required to achieve the answer in that method are more difficult to understand than the basic math is. And in he end, you still have to do the math.

It's like asking someone who struggles in English to diagram a sentence in an effort to make them better understand the language. It doesn't make sense to them.


HA! Funny. My bachelor's degree is in English and I can't diagram a sentence, never could. My brain doesn't think that way.

With Common Core the problems lie with understanding the methodology behind what they are doing. My middle child struggles mightily with any concept that cannot be made concrete and literally demonstrated to him physically. So Common Core is a nightmare for him. OTH many of the old methods make perfect sense to him but he's not allowed to use those old methods to do his math problems as it doesn't comply with Common Core nor with what's going to be on the MCAS and the methods he HAS to show when he shows his work on the test (doesn't matter if he gets it right using the old methodology the problem will still be marked wrong because he didn't use the accepted method) so he's constantly struggling and almost failing math - drives me crazy. Common Core is supposed to be an answer to teaching in a box but it's not the answer for those who think outside that box, or along the edges. Hate it.
 
I don't really have an opinion that is Pro or Against Common Core, but my issue goes more along the lines of "one way of learning"...be it whatever system they choose is the latest and greatest.

Why can't it be ok for either answer to be correct whether you use the "old school" way OR the "new school" way?

We want innovative, efficient, "outside the box" thinkers, yet regardless of whichever method you choose, it's always ONE. The answer is right or wrong, not "it's right, but counted wrong because of HOW you got the answer".

I'm not being snarky...I just don't understand why it's not ok for BOTH answers to be right - just show your work as to how you got the answer. :confused3
 
I don't really have an opinion that is Pro or Against Common Core, but my issue goes more along the lines of "one way of learning"...be it whatever system they choose is the latest and greatest.

Why can't it be ok for either answer to be correct whether you use the "old school" way OR the "new school" way?

We want innovative, efficient, "outside the box" thinkers, yet regardless of whichever method you choose, it's always ONE. The answer is right or wrong, not "it's right, but counted wrong because of HOW you got the answer".

I'm not being snarky...I just don't understand why it's not ok for BOTH answers to be right - just show your work as to how you got the answer. :confused3

I think its more of the understanding THIS process of getting there rather than just getting there.
 
As part of some of the other discussions I've had about it, here's a blog post that was posted from someone in my area:

Is it Common Core or is it Good Number Sense?

A recent Facebook comment stream criticized Common Core standards as well as second grade homework. Some misconceptions were evident. I hope that the information found in this blog entry will make the goals of math learning in Leicester (and in Massachusetts and the rest of the country!) more clear.

Second graders have been practicing addition through grouping. This idea comes more naturally to some than to others, but is, in fact, something good number thinkers do at all ages. Here’s what I mean….
If you were adding ½ cup sugar to ¾ cup sugar, you’d know you’d have a cup and a quarter, not because you found the least common denominator, converted both numbers to equivalent fractions with that least common denominator, then converted to a mixed number and fraction, like this:
1 + 3 = 2 + 3 = 5 = 1 ¼
2 4 4 4 4

Instead, you would know because you would “deconstruct” (in your head) ¾ as being ½ + ¼ then you would recognize (grouping!) that ½ + ½ = 1, so the end result would be 1 and ¼. Of course we do want to teach our students the standard algorithm of finding the least common denominator, but we DON’T want them to only know that way!

Second graders are not working with fractions but, instead, are working with whole numbers and grouping 10’s. For 9 + 4 …. We know that 9 + 1 = 10 and 4 is just made up of 3 + 1 so we’d have one ten and another 3 so the answer would be 13: 9 + 4 = 9 + 1 + 3 = 10 + 3. I know parents know this but if you are doing it automatically, realize that your child isn’t, so we’re working on teaching them that.

Here’s another real life example: When adding and subtracting money, we group by dollars (100 cents). If I added 85 cents to 30 cents, I know in my head that another 15 cents would make the 85 cents a dollar and I also know that 30 cents is 15 cents plus 15 cents, so I’d group the 85 cents with one of the 15 cents to make a dollar, leaving 15 cents. So, the answer would be a dollar and 15 cents.

The way this second grade standard is written is:

Fluently add and subtract within 20 using mental strategies (counting on, making ten (e.g. 8+6=8+2+4=10+4=14); decomposing a number leading to a ten (e.g., 13 – 4 = 13 – 3 – 1 = 10 – 1 =9); using the relationship between addition and subtraction (e.g., knowing that 8 + 4 = 12, one knows 12 - 8 = 4); and creating equivalent but easier or known sums (e.g., adding 6+7 by creating the known equivalent 6 + 6 + 1 = 12 + 1 = 13).

Now, you might say, “who in their right mind would subtract 4 from 13 using 3 steps like the example just provided?????” Of course, one wouldn’t do this in practice, but as we teach these young students the strategy we want them to do it out the long way. Once they learn it, it can be done in their head. Through this work, we are making great mathematicians.

While I did provide the current standard, please don’t think this is anything new. My son is 27. He was in 2nd grade in 1994 – well before the “Common Core.” He learned math this way 20 years ago and I am proud to say that he can do mental math (and any other kind of math as well) with ease. Some requirements of Common Core are, in fact, a bit different, but mostly in the depth of understanding of these mathematics concepts we are asking our students to show.

Why do some blame the Common Core for these approaches? Unfortunately, the Common Core has become a political football. Those who are against central control or government in general don’t want to see national standards or anything that looks like national standards. So, while we argue whether or not to have national standards and whether or not the ones we have are any good, a significant portion of the world’s nations that have national standards are running circles around us. We need to move forward in a positive way and to do that we need everyone here in Leicester – students, teachers, parents, and politicians alike – to help ensure a positive learning environment both within and outside our school walls. When homework or assessments aren’t clear, ask a teacher; we have wonderful teachers that are ready to help parents as well as students.
 
Based on my experience with new math cirriculumn in elementary school, I see two problems.

1) The memorization of math facts has been completely eliminated.
2) Alternative methods are only as effective as the person teaching them.
 
Based on my experience with new math cirriculumn in elementary school, I see two problems.

1) The memorization of math facts has been completely eliminated.
2) Alternative methods are only as effective as the person teaching them.

I disagree with 1)The memorization of math facts has been completely eliminated.

I disagree because there is still memorization in that (using part of the blog post I just posted) if you add 85 cents and 30 cents, you know if you add another 15 cents to 85 and you also know that 30 cents is 15 cents plus 15 cents..... is that not memorizing? How do you KNOW 15 and 15 is 30?
 
My basic problem with Common Core isn't a problem with Common Core at all. It's a problem with the Economics of Education. In short, nobody makes money off of old textbooks. They HAVE to be rewritten and sold again or MacMillan doesn't make more new revenue.

2 + 2 = 4. That was true centuries ago, that was true when I was a kid, that was true when my children were kids, and it is still true today. But if we can't convince the school Districts that the old math books are "outdated," then we can't sell them new textbooks.

Look at Common Core for the first grade. It says something like. A typical 6 year old kid should be able to add and subtract numbers up to 20. That's pretty reasonable, right?

What's ridiculous is that we need to insist that there has to be all these new theories and methods to teach it "better." Further, this new way of teaching 2 + 2 is very advanced and sophisticated and the only people who can teach 2 + 2 now are the highly qualified experts. For goodness sakes parents what are you thinking, trying to help your kid learn 2 + 2 with no professional guidance?

All the old books need to be thrown out and parents need to be told to never, ever buy a pack of Flash Cards and teach their 6 year old to memorize the equations or you'll mess them up forever.

And I can pretty much guarantee that a few years from now, the Business of Education will decide "OMG, We NEED SOMETHING NEW!" once again and all these 7 paragraph Math lesson answers will be out the window and somebody else will have come up with a newer and improved best way to teach it.
 
My basic problem with Common Core isn't a problem with Common Core at all. It's a problem with the Economics of Education. In short, nobody makes money off of old textbooks. They HAVE to be rewritten and sold again or MacMillan doesn't make more new revenue.

2 + 2 = 4. That was true centuries ago, that was true when I was a kid, that was true when my children were kids, and it is still true today. But if we can't convince the school Districts that the old math books are "outdated," then we can't sell them new textbooks.

Look at Common Core for the first grade. It says something like. A typical 6 year old kid should be able to add and subtract numbers up to 20. That's pretty reasonable, right?

What's ridiculous is that we need to insist that there has to be all these new theories and methods to teach it "better." Further, this new way of teaching 2 + 2 is very advanced and sophisticated and the only people who can teach 2 + 2 now are the highly qualified experts. For goodness sakes parents what are you thinking, trying to help your kid learn 2 + 2 with no professional guidance?

All the old books need to be thrown out and parents need to be told to never, ever buy a pack of Flash Cards and teach their 6 year old to memorize the equations or you'll mess them up forever.

And I can pretty much guarantee that a few years from now, the Business of Education will decide "OMG, We NEED SOMETHING NEW!" once again and all these 7 paragraph Math lesson answers will be out the window and somebody else will have come up with a newer and improved best way to teach it.

I am going to predict that textbooks will be a thing of the past within the next 10 years. My kids have (I believe) ONE class each this year that has an actual textbook.
Everything is either online or copies, which are printed and stapled packets from textbooks (from what I can tell).
I think somewhere down the road you're going to see kids carrying nothing more than a tablet of some sort...maybe not, but that's my prediction in light of how "technologically advanced" schools are becoming.
 












Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE








New Posts







DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest

Back
Top