Common Core.... someone please explain

[Colleen27]

Common core may not be the answer, but some day America has to get serious about educating our children.

Our school days are shorter than the rest of the the modern world.

Our school year is shorter than the rest of the modern world (60 days shorter than japan)

Our children do less homework that the rest of the modern world.

We are falling behind.

This is actually a common misconception. We are about middle of the pack on average, and many high performing countries have significantly less homework than our students. Moreover, big homework loads start at younger ages here than in countries like Japan and Finland that are often cited as the international competitors we should emulate.

Evidence points to a need for better/more meaningful homework in smaller quantities, rather than the "more is better" approach that has kids bringing home busywork like crossword puzzles, word searches, and coloring pages as homework. But we're talking about the American educational system, so it isn't likely that empirical evidence will have any place in the highly political process of setting policy.

 

[jodifla]

This is actually a common misconception. We are about middle of the pack on average, and many high performing countries have significantly less homework than our students. Moreover, big homework loads start at younger ages here than in countries like Japan and Finland that are often cited as the international competitors we should emulate.

Evidence points to a need for better/more meaningful homework in smaller quantities, rather than the "more is better" approach that has kids bringing home busywork like crossword puzzles, word searches, and coloring pages as homework. But we're talking about the American educational system, so it isn't likely that empirical evidence will have any place in the highly political process of setting policy.

And we've pretty much ALWAYS been in the middle of the pack when it comes to testing. We test everybody, first of all, and most of the other countries only test their best students and/or have very little poverty and lots of social support (like Finland).

Who cares if we do well on global standardized tests? We're No. 1 in the world in things like patents. Students from all over the world flock to our colleges -- because they are the best.

I worry that Common Core will have us lose our wonderful mosaic of different talents. Apparently, there are to be no ballerinas, actors, musicians, artists, plumbers, woodworkers, or car techs -- only STEM college students -- who, because they all learned the same thing at the same time and were tested on the same way -- will not know much else about the world.

 

[nugov2]

Besides everybody like it, what proof do you have that what you are teaching really matches up to the Common Core Standards?

Nothing your district is doing has a proven track record at this point. I think it will very well could come crashing down in your district once all the kids have to take these tests. It literally has in every state that has taken versions of the PARC or Smarter Balanced tests so far. In states like Kentucky, for 3 years they've been studying Common Core, and for 3 years the numbers have been pretty lousy. There's been some growth, particularly among elementary kids -- but even those aren't stellar. I'm trying to think of something else that you spend 3 YEARS teaching a kid and still have have to almost 70 percent failing that's actually developmentally appropriate -- and depending on race or ability, the numbers drop into single digits.

Look at Leebee's comments about how hard she found the 5th grade Smarter Balanced tests. Do you think that somehow your kids are going to waltz through them?

As far as posting websites and news articles, isn't that exactly what Common Core requires? Not just your opinion?

What kind of proof would you like? I won't link anything to my specific district as I don't want anyone to know where I specifically live. I can tell you I was involved in aligning our curriculum with the standards and I am quite familiar with them.

I will be glad to report back to you on our test results as they go forward if you'd like. I already stated we did have PARCC and a rewritten state test that matched CC standards and only a slight dip was seen. I disagree it will come crashing down. Our district from K all the way through high school has high academic achievements and I have faith they will continue to do so. The test is one component that measures academic success so even if our numbers do dip, it doesn't change the fact that our students are still getting a great education. We don't rely on state funding the way many districts do and in that aspect I know we are an anomaly and lucky....and honestly why we chose this district.

Seriously, you didn't just post a poll about whether teachers like Common Core from the Gates Foundation?

That was just one of the many other polls listed in that article. There were also the AFT, the NEA and Education next(which was administered by Harvard, so about as reliable as your Vanderbilt survey). So no I "didn't just post a poll about whether teachers like CC from the Gates Foundation". I gave you many other polls that you chose to ignore.

Again, I don't dispute there is a lot of backlash....I just think the public is complaining/upset about the wrong thing. Don't blame CC...blame lazy administrators and teachers who bought curriculum in a box. There are great lessons out there that align with CC standards that are innovative and fun and make sense, but you have to be in a district that trusts that creativity and fun make sense in education and produce successful students and that teaching to the test never produces good results. I still haven't seen an example of why CC was bad that didn't directly link back to bad teaching/implementation. I have said it before, give me a standard and I will give you a great lesson that aligns with CC. They are out there...you only need to go to pinterest to find them.

Our district has just implemented tech modules to help college and career readiness. It will integrate technology, engineering and math concepts. You will explore future fuels, robots, engines, electronics and flight modules. The students will then apply the knowledge acquired from their core classes to demonstrate higher level thinking and reasoning throughout each module. Sounds like a lot of fun and creativity for students and I can assure you they all align with CC standards.

 

[jahber]

Apparently I was ahead of the times, too. No one taught me to do math that way (I graduated in 98), I just figured out on my own that it was easier. I don't see how else you could do math without paper or a calculator. Are you really supposed to visualize an equation, work the numbers by column, remember which numbers are where while you carry the one...? It seems like there's an awful lot of room for error that way.

Actually, yes, that's exactly how I add, multiply, subtract, and do long division in my head--by visualizing it. And it worked great for me all the way through Calc 1, when I decided I didn't actually like math much. That's my problem with the way math is being taught now. YOUR way works for you. But what if you were required to do it my way or be marked wrong? Maybe you could figure it out if you're good at math. But if math isn't your strength, suddenly you have to re-learn something you've ALREADY KNOW. Think about that. You can already arrive at the correct answer, but that is not enough. Instead you must learn a new way and practice it until you master the new way. Does that not seem like a colossal waste of time to people? I guess not.
So, fwiw, I homeschool. I recognize that my daughter and son learn math and perform the exact same math problems differently from each other. To insist that all children must learn everything the exact same way is ridiculous to me. But apparently not to most people.

 

[nugov2]

And we've pretty much ALWAYS been in the middle of the pack when it comes to testing. We test everybody, first of all, and most of the other countries only test their best students and/or have very little poverty and lots of social support (like Finland).

Who cares if we do well on global standardized tests? We're No. 1 in the world in things like patents. Students from all over the world flock to our colleges -- because they are the best.

I worry that Common Core will have us lose our wonderful mosaic of different talents. Apparently, there are to be no ballerinas, actors, musicians, artists, plumbers, woodworkers, or car techs -- only STEM college students -- who, because they all learned the same thing at the same time and were tested on the same way -- will not know much else about the world.

Our district still promotes and embraces Art, music and trades. Our district has a program in jr high through hs that promotes the trades. We study in grades k-8 specific Artists each month outside of their regular art class they go to. Each month is an in depth study of one artist, their work and an opportunity for students to model that artists method. We have innovative programs like what I mentioned in my previous post as well as tv production labs, photography labs. They even offer music theory and guitar at our Jr. High, just to give a few examples. None of those have been cut and honestly the programs grow each year. I think that issue has more to do with your district budget cuts and lack of funding and not CC. I admit we are in an affluent area and are lucky. We also have a district foundation that raises big money(over $100,000 last year) so that teacher and schools can write grants for specific programs in addition to our individual PTA's that also grant money to their specific school each year that helps fund many of these programs. Maybe you should help start a district foundation(I volunteered on ours for 3 years before moving to the PTA this year) to help raise money for your district. Our foundation started small(only 5 members) and has only been around for 8 years. We started with small amounts of money, but every year we grow. We have raised over $400,000 for schools in that short amount of time. Our foundation consists of 10 board members(parents and community members) 2 school board members, administrators and 2 teachers from each district school. It is a lot of work, but it does so much good for the schools and really makes the community more of a family instead of just individual schools. Our district events(2 big ones a year) have grown and have huge turnouts. Our last event had about 2,000 people in attendance. Actions always speak louder than words

 

[tvguy]

This is actually a common misconception. We are about middle of the pack on average, and many high performing countries have significantly less homework than our students. Moreover, big homework loads start at younger ages here than in countries like Japan and Finland that are often cited as the international competitors we should emulate.

Evidence points to a need for better/more meaningful homework in smaller quantities, rather than the "more is better" approach that has kids bringing home busywork like crossword puzzles, word searches, and coloring pages as homework. But we're talking about the American educational system, so it isn't likely that empirical evidence will have any place in the highly political process of setting policy.

Given that Japan's school year is 60 instruction days longer than ours, I suspect they don't need as much homework. With all due respect, this is not a common misconception, it is a crisis.

 

[jodifla]

Given that Japan's school year is 60 instruction days longer than ours, I suspect they don't need as much homework. With all due respect, this is not a common misconception, it is a crisis.

As a whole, Japanese youth are nothing to emulate. They have have high suicide rates and many don't enter into relationships.

The pressure-cooker school system has led to intense bullying and there's become a huge subculture of kids who find they aren't succeeding in school so they just drop out and literally become shut-ins. There's even a name for them: hikikomori.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Actually, yes, that's exactly how I add, multiply, subtract, and do long division in my head--by visualizing it. And it worked great for me all the way through Calc 1, when I decided I didn't actually like math much. That's my problem with the way math is being taught now. YOUR way works for you. But what if you were required to do it my way or be marked wrong? Maybe you could figure it out if you're good at math. But if math isn't your strength, suddenly you have to re-learn something you've ALREADY KNOW. Think about that. You can already arrive at the correct answer, but that is not enough. Instead you must learn a new way and practice it until you master the new way. Does that not seem like a colossal waste of time to people? I guess not.
So, fwiw, I homeschool. I recognize that my daughter and son learn math and perform the exact same math problems differently from each other. To insist that all children must learn everything the exact same way is ridiculous to me. But apparently not to most people.

That's exactly what my experience was in math and it was frustrating. If I couldn't "show my work" for how I arrived at the answer then I wouldn't get credit. But my method wasn't the accepted method, it had to be the method taught to the class. So, essentially, I had to learn two ways for doing everything -- the "official" way taught by the teacher and the way that actually allowed me to understand what I was doing that I had to figure out on my own. This worked fine for me up through pre-calc but once I got to calculus I was struggling to get B's and C's. The method the teacher was using didn't click for me and it was too advanced to figure out on my own. There isn't a one-size-fits-all way that everyone learns best and some students will be left behind as long as we keep trying to shoehorn everyone into learning through only one method, regardless of what that method is. That's the point I was trying to make in my last post. I think you and I are in agreement here.

 

[nugov2]

That's exactly what my experience was in math and it was frustrating. If I couldn't "show my work" for how I arrived at the answer then I wouldn't get credit. But my method wasn't the accepted method, it had to be the method taught to the class. So, essentially, I had to learn two ways for doing everything -- the "official" way taught by the teacher and the way that actually allowed me to understand what I was doing that I had to figure out on my own. This worked fine for me up through pre-calc but once I got to calculus I was struggling to get B's and C's. The method the teacher was using didn't click for me and it was too advanced to figure out on my own. There isn't a one-size-fits-all way that everyone learns best and some students will be left behind as long as we keep trying to shoehorn everyone into learning through only one method, regardless of what that method is. That's the point I was trying to make in my last post. I think you and I are in agreement here.

Math was that way when I was a student in HS in the 90's long before CC. That is a teacher that is one of those my way or the highway people and doesn't recognize the needs of all of their students. Again, someone teaching CC this way falls into that same category and it has nothing to do with CC standards at all. There is not a one sized fits all teaching method no matter what standards are adopted and districts/teachers that recognize this will have more students succeeding and ones that don't will have huge failures.

 

[tvguy]

As a whole, Japanese youth are nothing to emulate. They have have high suicide rates and many don't enter into relationships.

The pressure-cooker school system has led to intense bullying and there's become a huge subculture of kids who find they aren't succeeding in school so they just drop out and literally become shut-ins. There's even a name for them: hikikomori.

You can bury our heads in the sand if you want, but the Japanese are kicking out tail. Since the average age of diagnosis of hikikomori is 31, not sure schooling can be linked to it. The Japanese did cut the school week from 6 days to 5 18 years ago to address concerns about kids being under too much pressure.

I pose this question, our current school year is 180 days, in the district I live in 36 of those days are half days. Is that too many days?

 

[aprilgail2]

You can bury our heads in the sand if you want, but the Japanese are kicking out tail. Since the average age of diagnosis of hikikomori is 31, not sure schooling can be linked to it. The Japanese did cut the school week from 6 days to 5 18 years ago to address concerns about kids being under too much pressure.

I pose this question, our current school year is 180 days, in the district I live in 36 of those days are half days. Is that too many days?

36 half days in ONE school year?? Is that even possible?? We have 2 half days the whole school year up until the last 2 weeks of school and then those are testing days and only the kids in high school get those off or half days- grade school and Jr high have regular days.

 

[Colleen27]

Given that Japan's school year is 60 instruction days longer than ours, I suspect they don't need as much homework. With all due respect, this is not a common misconception, it is a crisis.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I believe much of the "falling behind" rhetoric is a direct consequence of comparing apples to oranges - nations that don't test their entire student populations while we do, nations with extensive social support programs that all but eliminate child poverty, etc. And there is also the question of what tests measure. The best and brightest on standardized tests may not be the same group as the best and brightest in the sort of innovations and intuitive leaps that have made the U.S. such a remarkable economic power in the first place. There are precious few nations that measure ahead of us in innovation and invention, with little overlap between that group and the group that outscores us on conventional measures of educational effectiveness.

Further, education doesn't happen in a vacuum. You can't import educational methods from a nation with a completely different set of cultural and social assumptions and expect to see similar results. Most of the countries that are ranked above us in education have much stronger social support systems, not just a patchwork safety net for the poorest of the poor. Most have a national, egalitarian set of standards and funding rules for schools, not our politicized system where school quality depends on the affluence of the community and the policies of the state.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot I think we could stand to change. But simply adding more days or more homework to the existing system and ignoring its fundamental flaws is not going to improve anything.

 

[Colleen27]

You can bury our heads in the sand if you want, but the Japanese are kicking out tail. Since the average age of diagnosis of hikikomori is 31, not sure schooling can be linked to it. The Japanese did cut the school week from 6 days to 5 18 years ago to address concerns about kids being under too much pressure.

I pose this question, our current school year is 180 days, in the district I live in 36 of those days are half days. Is that too many days?

36 half days is crazy. We have 190 days, so that we can be reasonably sure of getting the mandatory 180 in no matter what mother nature throws at us over the winter, but of those only about 8 are half days. Two at parent-teacher conferences in the fall, two at midterms, two or three at finals, and sometimes an extra here or there for in-service training sessions.

 

[MSLRAC]

You can bury our heads in the sand if you want, but the Japanese are kicking out tail. Since the average age of diagnosis of hikikomori is 31, not sure schooling can be linked to it. The Japanese did cut the school week from 6 days to 5 18 years ago to address concerns about kids being under too much pressure.

I pose this question, our current school year is 180 days, in the district I live in 36 of those days are half days. Is that too many days?

36 half days? I think that is far too many. We have no half days at all in our district. They go 185 days and have 3 workdays built in the calendar that can be used as snow makeup days if needed. There were half days when we lived in NC but there were only maybe 5 a year.

 

[alicat8]

I don't think 36 half days is that unusual. And they aren't true "halves" most places. It's usually a 4 hour day instead of 6. Cut for teacher meetings and PD.

I'd say our bigger issue is that we think it's a good idea to take 2 months off every summer. Don't get me wrong-i love my summer vacation, but it really is the dumbest schedule, especially considering we don't need our kids harvesting the fields any more...

 

[Colleen27]

I'd say our bigger issue is that we think it's a good idea to take 2 months off every summer. Don't get me wrong-i love my summer vacation, but it really is the dumbest schedule, especially considering we don't need our kids harvesting the fields any more...

Yeah, that seems like low hanging fruit as far as educational changes go and the resistance to it absolutely astounds me. Every scrap of evidence on the idea points to the fact that we could have our kids in school the exact same number of days and see a marked improvement in performance if we only broke up their off time more evenly throughout the year. But when our school board raised the idea it was tabled largely out of concern about sports schedules and local tourism and other non-educational issues.

 

[alicat8]

Anyone who's ever been in a classroom knows you spend a huge chunk of the beginning of the year reteaching what they forgot from the year before...like a month...Our school board just took away our Feb break to make the summer longer and the parents were thrilled...I can't wrap my brain around the mentality!!

 

[jodifla]

The only half day we have is the last day of school.

We have "late start" days once or twice a month, and the schools use those hours for teacher training. In middle school it means they just trim a few hours off every hour so kids still go to all classes. The typical school day here is just shy of 7 hours, so when you add in bus time, the kids can be gone easily 8 to 9 hours a day.


School started Sept. 2. We get one Jewish holiday off, then 3 days at Thanksgiving, and about 10 days at Christmastime.

 

[jodifla]

Yeah, that seems like low hanging fruit as far as educational changes go and the resistance to it absolutely astounds me. Every scrap of evidence on the idea points to the fact that we could have our kids in school the exact same number of days and see a marked improvement in performance if we only broke up their off time more evenly throughout the year. But when our school board raised the idea it was tabled largely out of concern about sports schedules and local tourism and other non-educational issues.

There was one school in our area that did year-round schooling for about 10 years. It was really popular in the beginning. They just gave it up a few years ago. It just wasn't working -- the logistics of year-round schooling just doesn't fit into American lives over the long haul.

And especially in a place like Michigan. Who wants to sit in a school room on a beautiful day in August but have two weeks off in February?

 

[Colleen27]

There was one school in our area that did year-round schooling for about 10 years. It was really popular in the beginning. They just gave it up a few years ago. It just wasn't working -- the logistics of year-round schooling just doesn't fit into American lives over the long haul.

And especially in a place like Michigan. Who wants to sit in a school room on a beautiful day in August but have two weeks off in February?

There are a few who have tried it here but never well. The standard attempt usually involves changing over the elem level but not the middle and high schools so families who have kids at more than one school don't get breaks at the same time. So what happens is it tends to be initially popular with families who see the educational benefits but then becomes less so as the kids age and more families have to deal with the logistics of having their middle or high schoolers on a traditional schedule while the elementary schooler is on a year-round track. And part of the reason for the difficulty is that so few schools do this - if it were the norm, things like child care, enrichment camps and other break activities, sports schedules, etc. would fall into place, but as long as it is an unusual circumstance there will be challenges that come from being out of step with the norm.

As far as the weather issue I think that's another of those distractions that gets in the way of educational best practices. People would adapt and there are plenty of places that are fabulous in the winter, including some of the winter-sports destinations here in Michigan. Heck about 20% of our kids miss school at some point in the year to take a winter trip, mostly either to go to FL when it isn't terribly hot or to ski somewhere. And another huge chunk miss around this time of year for deer season trips that could be arranged during the fall break that is typically offered on a year-round schedule. Besides, on a typical year-round/extended-year schedule there is still a long break in the summer. The proposed schedule here cut summer break in half (5 weeks instead of 10 - all of July & first week of Aug), added a two week fall break, made Easter break a full two weeks, and extended existing Thanksgiving, Presidents' Day, and Memorial Day breaks to a full week each.