Common Core.... someone please explain

[jrmasm]

I disagree with 1)The memorization of math facts has been completely eliminated.

I disagree because there is still memorization in that (using part of the blog post I just posted) if you add 85 cents and 30 cents, you know if you add another 15 cents to 85 and you also know that 30 cents is 15 cents plus 15 cents..... is that not memorizing? How do you KNOW 15 and 15 is 30?

Use your fingers. I'm not kidding, I've seen it. Or in your example, count by 5's.

Please don't dissect what I said. I was very clear that I was talking about my experience. My dd can solve problems but her calculation is much slower than it should be because she doesn't know her facts as well as she should.

 

[kamik86]

When I first started high school there was a teacher that was telling the class about tricks to do math in your head faster. She would have someone put up

85 + 30 + 24 = ??

and challenge someone to beat her to the answer. I was always about on par with her but most of the kids were way behind.

She then told about the method that is here. I had just always done that. I would say 85 + 15 is 100 and 15+24 is 39 so 139.

So a bunch of people found a way to do math faster in their head out of that lesson. I learned that the rest of the class didn't think that way. I always thought they had (and wondered why everyone else was so slow... It never occured to me they were doing 85
+ 30 is 5+0 is 5 and 8+ 3 is 11 so 115 + 24 so 5+4 is 9 and 2+1 is 3 and 1+0 is 1 so 139.


Edit to add:
I will however agree that there is a time that may be too early to teach this. Because if a child is still struggling with doing it the old way now they will be REALLY lost. Once you get the old way really well the new way is better... but not if it means someone never really masters either way.

 

[jrmasm]

My basic problem with Common Core isn't a problem with Common Core at all. It's a problem with the Economics of Education. In short, nobody makes money off of old textbooks. They HAVE to be rewritten and sold again or MacMillan doesn't make more new revenue.

2 + 2 = 4. That was true centuries ago, that was true when I was a kid, that was true when my children were kids, and it is still true today. But if we can't convince the school Districts that the old math books are "outdated," then we can't sell them new textbooks.

Look at Common Core for the first grade. It says something like. A typical 6 year old kid should be able to add and subtract numbers up to 20. That's pretty reasonable, right?

What's ridiculous is that we need to insist that there has to be all these new theories and methods to teach it "better." Further, this new way of teaching 2 + 2 is very advanced and sophisticated and the only people who can teach 2 + 2 now are the highly qualified experts. For goodness sakes parents what are you thinking, trying to help your kid learn 2 + 2 with no professional guidance?

All the old books need to be thrown out and parents need to be told to never, ever buy a pack of Flash Cards and teach their 6 year old to memorize the equations or you'll mess them up forever.

And I can pretty much guarantee that a few years from now, the Business of Education will decide "OMG, We NEED SOMETHING NEW!" once again and all these 7 paragraph Math lesson answers will be out the window and somebody else will have come up with a newer and improved best way to teach it.

There is always another New math!

 

[Colleen27]

Common Core really has two major points.

First, it aims to standardize curriculum between states. I think that's an admirable goal for a mobile society - if a 4th grader in Michigan is learning the same things as a 4th grader in Colorado, the academic cost of relocation would be greatly diminished. However, since common core addresses only math and English it is of limited use in that sense; there are much greater variations in science and social studies from place to place than in math or language arts.

Second, it shifts the focus from knowing answers to knowing reasoning and rationale. This part I think is more dubious, particularly in math which has, along with the hard/math heavy sciences, traditionally been a refuge for bright minds who simply don't have a verbal bent. By making the explanations more important than the answers, demanding step by step and narrative answers to straightforward problems, and teaching multiple methods rather than arithmetic facts, schools are essentially sending the message that verbal skills are the most/only skills that matter. I think that has the potential to waste a heck of a lot of talent as kids who previously would have focused in on math, physics, computer science, etc. as a strong point are turned off by math courses that require narrative writing skills.

 

[Colleen27]

Normally I wouldn't (since we currently don't have to deal with it) BUT, we were considering our local public HS for our son after he's done where he is (only goes to 8th grade). I'm having serious second thoughts now, because of common core.

Look at the specific school and how it is being implemented there. We're in the same boat - my girls attend a private K-8 but we're in the process of deciding between public and private for high school - and what we've found is that at this level and for the courses DD will be taking common core is mostly a non-issue.

The big changes involved in common core are at the basic skills level - memorizing math facts, borrowing/carrying, etc. are all getting an overhaul and students are expected to not only use different methods but also explain those methods in detail. But in geometry, trig, calculus? It is business as usual because emphasis on the process has always been part of those courses. I'm not a fan of the changes on the ELA side - a focus on "high quality non-fiction" at the expense of literature - but there are still lit classes so that isn't a big deal IMO.

 

[alicat8]

Here's another one I didn't understand:

If I'm recognizing this book, it's not Common Core-it's from the Everyday Math program, which hasn't been aligned with CC yet. I've been teaching it for 10 years and I love it. It's logical, and it promotes mental math. That's hoe you would mentally solve that problem, and if the kids are taught it from day 1, they can do it (I've taught second and 6th grade with the program). I don't agree with 100% of how it works (especially lattice multiplication, which is stupid) but as a general rule, it gives the kids a chance to be MUCH more mathematically fluent.

The Common Core standards are going to be an issue until:
1. The programs catch up (a pp wrote that they are poorly written-very true-rushed into publication and a disaster...)
2. The kids' background knowledge catches up with the demands of the curriculum. Starting it in any grade besides kindergarten leaves them with MAJOR holes, especially since it doesn't spiral.
3. Parents accept the fact that it's ok for their kids to learn math that's more difficult than they learned. Most of the time when it seems more complicated, it's because it's forcing kids to understand why, not just memorize useless algorithms. (This irritates me the most-the "I didn't learn it this way and I turned out fine" attitude....Don't you want your kids to be SMARTER than you?? )

 

[jodifla]

HA! Funny. My bachelor's degree is in English and I can't diagram a sentence, never could. My brain doesn't think that way.

With Common Core the problems lie with understanding the methodology behind what they are doing. My middle child struggles mightily with any concept that cannot be made concrete and literally demonstrated to him physically. So Common Core is a nightmare for him. OTH many of the old methods make perfect sense to him but he's not allowed to use those old methods to do his math problems as it doesn't comply with Common Core nor with what's going to be on the MCAS and the methods he HAS to show when he shows his work on the test (doesn't matter if he gets it right using the old methodology the problem will still be marked wrong because he didn't use the accepted method) so he's constantly struggling and almost failing math - drives me crazy. Common Core is supposed to be an answer to teaching in a box but it's not the answer for those who think outside that box, or along the edges. Hate it.

Yep, hate it too. It's so heavy on language that if you have any kind of language disability, it makes even learning the most simple math impossible.

This is bearing out in all the testing, where 95 percent of special needs kids are failing the math -- as well as 70 percent of kids who aren't special needs. Even kids who have been taught it for two years.

A total disaster.

Support of Common Core is sinking like a stone among teacher and parents in polls.

For most people, to know Common Core is to hate it.

 

[tvguy]

It has been controversial on these boards and in some parts of the country.
As I tend to do if I see a hot topic here, I suggest it as a story at work. Hasn't been as controversial in California because it is similar to what is already what is taught here. Even the teachers union endorsed it here.

 

[alicat8]

It has been controversial on these boards and in some parts of the country.
As I tend to do if I see a hot topic here, I suggest it as a story at work. Hasn't been as controversial in California because it is similar to what is already what is taught here. Even the teachers union endorsed it here.

Definitely seeing the same thing in CT-it's not a big jump from what we've already done.

Now the testing-I have plenty of problems with! But overall, no real issue with CC standards.

 

[jodifla]

It has been controversial on these boards and in some parts of the country.
As I tend to do if I see a hot topic here, I suggest it as a story at work. Hasn't been as controversial in California because it is similar to what is already what is taught here. Even the teachers union endorsed it here.

It's just rolling out in California. Once teachers start to realize what it means, it will plummet in popularity too:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/28/math-common-core-schools-confusion/2/?#article-copy
New math causing consternation

Parent pushed back in some of the high-performing districts and schools and caught some districts off guard. Poway slowed down its transition to Common Core, in part, because of parent concerns. San Dieguito Union held 20 parent meetings last year that were attended by some 2,000 community members.

 

[jodifla]

Definitely seeing the same thing in CT-it's not a big jump from what we've already done.

Now the testing-I have plenty of problems with! But overall, no real issue with CC standards.

Once they throw out the testing, Common Core will fall with it.

 

[jodifla]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-oppose-common-core-standards-poll/

ByRebecca KaplanCBS NewsAugust 20, 2014, 12:10 PM
Most Americans oppose Common Core standards: Poll
Support for Common Core educational standards has dropped as awareness of the program has spread over the past year, new polling finds.

Among Americans who have heard a great deal about the standards, just 33 percent support the standards while 59 percent oppose them, the annual PDK/Gallup Poll of the Public's Attitudes Toward the Public Schools reveals.

The newer, more specific poll found that only about one in three public school parents favor having their kids' teachers be guided by the Common Core standards.

 

[nugov2]

It has been controversial on these boards and in some parts of the country.
As I tend to do if I see a hot topic here, I suggest it as a story at work. Hasn't been as controversial in California because it is similar to what is already what is taught here. Even the teachers union endorsed it here.

It isn't controversial here at all and like I said earlier not much different from what we had, but do notice that bar raised a little. Again, I don't know any teachers who are against it. They either like it or don't really feel it is different than any of the changes teachers have experienced before. Now the testing...nobody likes that. Not one single person posts things on FB that are anti CC that are from my area. It is my friends mostly on the East coast that seem to have issues, but what I have seen is all horrible execution by their district/teachers/administrators.


My kids are not expected to write long passages explaining their answers either. That is not CC specific, but again something certain districts decided to adopt. Do they ever have to explain their answer...yes, but not in a way that it would be difficult for those with problems writing and like anything a child with special needs will have their IEP so they will get accommodations to assist them so that they are successful with the school curriculum.

 

[jodifla]

It isn't controversial here at all and like I said earlier not much different from what we had, but do notice that bar raised a little. Again, I don't know any teachers who are against it. They either like it or don't really feel it is different than any of the changes teachers have experienced before. Now the testing...nobody likes that. Not one single person posts things on FB that are anti CC that are from my area. It is my friends mostly on the East coast that seem to have issues, but what I have seen is all horrible execution by their district/teachers/administrators.


My kids are not expected to write long passages explaining their answers either. That is not CC specific, but again something certain districts decided to adopt. Do they ever have to explain their answer...yes, but not in a way that it would be difficult for those with problems writing and like anything a child with special needs will have their IEP so they will get accommodations to assist them so that they are successful with the school curriculum.

I don't know what state you are from, but I can pretty much assure you that if you search Facebook, you will see a Facebook group "My State Against COmmon Core" or something similar.

My friends with school kids and those who are teachers hate Common Core.

 

[jodifla]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine...common-core/bAhagn3zzkQ0bM9w8GgYzN/story.html


The Education Issue
Are teachers really ready for the Common Core?
The controversial standards are about to be tested for the first time, yet questions remain if educators have been adequately trained.

 

[nugov2]

I don't know what state you are from, but I can pretty much assure you that if you search Facebook, you will see a Facebook group "My State Against COmmon Core" or something similar.

My friends with school kids and those who are teachers hate Common Core.

I don't care if there is a FB group for my state. There could be a I hate chocolate ice cream FB page for my area, doesn't mean everyone feels that way. I am telling you what the reality is where I live. I was an educator before staying home and have many people who have been teaching for years in my life. I am still in contact with many of my colleagues and I see them frequently. Almost all of my college friends are teachers and are scattered all around from rural to inner city not one of the people I talk to dislike it. No news stories of outrage out here and I work closely with the school district my children are in and no outrage from a single parent that I know. I don't disagree there are districts out there doing horrible with this, but that is on the educators and administrators not on a set of standards. I know in threads in the past you and I have discussed that and I know you will never agree with me. If you moved to a district that took time both educating their staff and parents and writing a curriculum using the standards that fit their districts needs, you would also have success in your district. Those lesson that are posted all over the internet are a sign there is something wrong with that teacher not something wrong with a standard. JMO

 

[sam_gordon]

Despite Jodi's many linked articles about how "everyone" hates common core, it's not true...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/02/teachers-survey-common-core/16601335/

Some points from the article...

But teachers in states where the math and reading standards have been in place longest say that, in spite of the criticisms, Common Core is going well — and that most teachers feel prepared to teach new kinds of lessons.

79% of teachers say they feel "very" or "somewhat" prepared to teach under the new standards, up from 71% last year.

About two-thirds, or 68%, say implementation is "going well" in their schools, up from 62% last year.

But 81% of teachers say Common Core is "challenging" to implement, up from 73% last year.

I'm sure someone will latch onto the 81% who say it's "challenging" to implement, but "challenging" <> "bad".

And I'm guessing if FB would have been around in the 60's, there'd be FB groups against desegregation.

 

[leebee]

That's actually how most retail clerks are taught to make change, if you really think about it.

Clerk: "The total is $3.37"

You hand clerk a 20.

Clerk hands you 63 cents: "That's 4."
Clerk hands you a dollar bill: "That's 5."
Clerk hands you a 5 dollar bill: "That's 10."
Cleark hands you a 10 dollar bill: "And that's 20."

Bam. There's you $16.63 change.

Sorry if this has been said; I'm responding before reading the entire thread.

This is NOT how most clerks make change. It's how those of us over the age of 30 (give or take) were taught how to make change. THESE days, the clerks are taught to ring in the total given ($20.00) and give whatever the register tells them to give. Kids aren't taught to count back money anymore.

I teach math in the K-8 setting, both in one-on-one situations and as an in-class co-teacher, and requiring kids to learn all these different methods simply confuses them. As with so many things, I think we ask kids to learn to do things before they are cognitively able to both understand and accomplish the tasks. We are asking them to accomplish a variety of math skills without first solidifying the basic skill involved. This is the consequence of spiraling math programs and common core requirements that one be able to explain HOW they got the answer- in words, not mathematically. Math is pretty straightforward, but kids HATE math because we make it so difficult to learn what should be pretty basic stuff.

My husband teaches chemistry at the University level. He is constantly amazed by the number of freshmen who cannot do basic math. I am not talking solving equations; this fall a full third of his class couldn't MULTIPLY- asic multiplication, like 37X158, without their calculators. It's pathetic… but I think it's because we are spending so much time insisting on learning different ways and methods without first solidifying the basics, moving elementary kids forward too quickly by letting them use addition and multiplication charts so they can learn to do more advanced math topics without being held back by not knowing their multiplication facts. As a country, we are trying to improve math scores by NOT teaching basics. Many kids don't learn math anymore- they just learn how to do certain styles of problems, the ones that are going to be asked on the standardized tests, and then move on.

I gave up on Common Core when the "educator" providing the math training said, "Getting the correct answer is not what's important; KNOWING how you got the answer is what counts." Yeah, right… until you have to balance your checkbook because things are bouncing!

 

[jodifla]

Despite Jodi's many linked articles about how "everyone" hates common core, it's not true...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/02/teachers-survey-common-core/16601335/

Some points from the article...



I'm sure someone will latch onto the 81% who say it's "challenging" to implement, but "challenging" <> "bad".

And I'm guessing if FB would have been around in the 60's, there'd be FB groups against desegregation.

In a new survey underwritten by the children's publisher Scholastic and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, both Common Core supporters, 79% of teachers say they feel "very" or "somewhat" prepared to teach under the new standards, up from 71% last year.


You take this seriously?

 

[threecrazykids]

Sorry if this has been said; I'm responding before reading the entire thread.

This is NOT how most clerks make change. It's how those of us over the age of 30 (give or take) were taught how to make change. THESE days, the clerks are taught to ring in the total given ($20.00) and give whatever the register tells them to give. Kids aren't taught to count back money anymore.

I teach math in the K-8 setting, both in one-on-one situations and as an in-class co-teacher, and requiring kids to learn all these different methods simply confuses them. As with so many things, I think we ask kids to learn to do things before they are cognitively able to both understand and accomplish the tasks. We are asking them to accomplish a variety of math skills without first solidifying the basic skill involved. This is the consequence of spiraling math programs and common core requirements that one be able to explain HOW they got the answer- in words, not mathematically. Math is pretty straightforward, but kids HATE math because we make it so difficult to learn what should be pretty basic stuff.

My husband teaches chemistry at the University level. He is constantly amazed by the number of freshmen who cannot do basic math. I am not talking solving equations; this fall a full third of his class couldn't MULTIPLY- asic multiplication, like 37X158, without their calculators. It's pathetic… but I think it's because we are spending so much time insisting on learning different ways and methods without first solidifying the basics, moving elementary kids forward too quickly by letting them use addition and multiplication charts so they can learn to do more advanced math topics without being held back by not knowing their multiplication facts. As a country, we are trying to improve math scores by NOT teaching basics. Many kids don't learn math anymore- they just learn how to do certain styles of problems, the ones that are going to be asked on the standardized tests, and then move on.

I gave up on Common Core when the "educator" providing the math training said, "Getting the correct answer is not what's important; KNOWING how you got the answer is what counts." Yeah, right… until you have to balance your checkbook because things are bouncing!

Not to mention how INFREQUENT those difficult math problems are used throughout your life.

If you're going to go into a STEM field then yes - you MAY use extended math. But for the majority of jobs in this world, no.