CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[Colleen27]

110%. We are really just making this so much harder than it needs to be.

And not just with vaccines, but also with masks. And because it's become an issue of which "side" you're on (which is so incredibly stupid), mask wearing is now being called out. I was texting with my two sisters a little while ago. My sister lives in Chapel Hill NC, she was out walking in her neighborhood with another neighbor earlier today. They were wearing masks....passed a guy who legit made fun of them for wearing masks, and called them "sheep". My sister said he was aggressive. He circled back around and my sister held up her phone and threatened to call 911 and he backed off. She lives in an upscale neighborhood...said she'd never seen the man before.

My other sister responded that my *13* year old nephew had a similar experience yesterday. He was out riding his bike with a friend...both wearing masks. An older couple pulled over to *yell* at them..."take off your masks, take off your masks!!"

Nobody in my family has experienced any kind of behavior like this until now.

I've noticed an uptick in this kind of nonsense around me lately too. I'm used to a lot of people walking around unmasked and stores doing little to attempt enforcement because of the verbal abuse it exposes their employees to, but it is really only the past couple months where a vocal minority of the unmasked have started to openly harass those who do wear them. "Sheep" seems to be the most common insult and I'm all about just ignoring that crap, but there's a small group of conspiracy theorists claiming the real goal of the mask mandate is to support/enable sex trafficking and I do worry what people who actually believe that BS might do because they don't just look down on mask wearing. They believe it is a danger to their kids/their community or whatever.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I've noticed an uptick in this kind of nonsense around me lately too. I'm used to a lot of people walking around unmasked and stores doing little to attempt enforcement because of the verbal abuse it exposes their employees to, but it is really only the past couple months where a vocal minority of the unmasked have started to openly harass those who do wear them. "Sheep" seems to be the most common insult and I'm all about just ignoring that crap, but there's a small group of conspiracy theorists claiming the real goal of the mask mandate is to support/enable sex trafficking and I do worry what people who actually believe that BS might do because they don't just look down on mask wearing. They believe it is a danger to their kids/their community or whatever.

Oh boy...I hadn't heard about that conspiracy theory....sounds very Qanon.....I know they're having to adjust a lot of their beliefs these days.

It's a little more jarring here in NJ because we really haven't seen much of this kind of thing. I personally haven't seen any. It's very upsetting to me that an *older couple* pulled over to literally yell at my thirteen year old nephew and his friend. And my other sister lives in NC, but in that area of NC it's more liberal....and so she was shocked. She didn't recognize the guy and was concerned it was someone who may have come into the neighborhood looking for trouble.

It's just all so ridiculous.

 

[Colleen27]

Oh boy...I hadn't heard about that conspiracy theory....sounds very Qanon.....I know they're having to adjust a lot of their beliefs these days.

It's a little more jarring here in NJ because we really haven't seen much of this kind of thing. I personally haven't seen any. It's very upsetting to me that an *older couple* pulled over to literally yell at my thirteen year old nephew and his friend. And my other sister lives in NC, but in that area of NC it's more liberal....and so she was shocked. She didn't recognize the guy and was concerned it was someone who may have come into the neighborhood looking for trouble.

It's just all so ridiculous.

It really is. I'm in rural Michigan, so I've come to expect that I'll run into at least the occasional example of the craziest ideas out there, but this situation seems to be bringing it out on a whole 'nother level. The one guy who I think is the source of a lot of the craziness about masks is a long time resident and former local elected official, and he's full-on Q level nuts. Unfortunately, he has a big audience because he is so prominent in the community.

 

[Mango7100]

110%. We are really just making this so much harder than it needs to be.

And not just with vaccines, but also with masks. And because it's become an issue of which "side" you're on (which is so incredibly stupid), mask wearing is now being called out. I was texting with my two sisters a little while ago. My sister lives in Chapel Hill NC, she was out walking in her neighborhood with another neighbor earlier today. They were wearing masks....passed a guy who legit made fun of them for wearing masks, and called them "sheep". My sister said he was aggressive. He circled back around and my sister held up her phone and threatened to call 911 and he backed off. She lives in an upscale neighborhood...said she'd never seen the man before.

My other sister responded that my *13* year old nephew had a similar experience yesterday. He was out riding his bike with a friend...both wearing masks. An older couple pulled over to *yell* at them..."take off your masks, take off your masks!!"

Nobody in my family has experienced any kind of behavior like this until now.

We have a lot of that here in my southern state. People being harassed for wearing masks in stores, unmasked people purposefully crowding masked shoppers, people purposefully coughing on people. The county health department was vandalized and the mayors home was vandalized this week...part of our citizens here are very vocal with their interesting views

 

[dvcgirl67]

We have a lot of that here in my southern state. People being harassed for wearing masks in stores, unmasked people purposefully crowding masked shoppers, people purposefully coughing on people. The county health department was vandalized and the mayors home was vandalized this week...part of our citizens here are very vocal with their interesting views

I legit wouldn't leave the house if it was like that here. I'm sorry anyone has to be subjected to that kind of juvenile behavior.

 

[dvcgirl67]

A thousand times yes- Amazon wrote a letter directly to Biden ASKING if they could help.

Yes, I saw that reported a couple of days ago. I hope the new crew works with corporate America. I'm honestly surprised the last crew didn't do that. Early on in the pandemic we used to have the outside "CEO coronavirus task force" pressers. Usually around 3pm...timed to juice the market into the close. I didn't actually mind the last part....especially on days when the market had been down significantly all day. Hopefully we'll hear more about some collaboration between the public and private sectors.

 

[EACarlson]

Companies have all sorts of requirements for employment. This is nothing new. It's understandable if they don't want covid-19 spreading to their workforce and clients.

There is science based information available about the vaccine. This is a helpful link. Women did become pregnant during the Pfizer trials. I am so thankful for all the vaccine trial participants.
They will continue to study participants.

What other experimental medical treatments should employers be able to require? Should a company be able to require employees to take a weight loss drug if they over a certain BMI? How about a cholesterol drug? Both of those health issues have taken more lives than COVID. I would be willing to entertain the idea of mandatory vaccination once there is full FDA approval, not merely an Emergency Use Authorization, and even then only for certain fields, healthcare for instance, where there are already additional regulations and requirements. I make no claims of validity of the reasons people are not getting the vaccine. My wife has had both doses and I'm eagerly awaiting my chance to get it. But I think requiring any medical treatment of people is beyond the pale.

I hope you realize it's already been said a gadzillion times over that legally speaking companies can do this, Fauci has even discussed this multiple times in regards to a federal mandate vs business mandate. I'm not disagreeing with your viewpoint on it, it's your viewpoint and I can understand concerns, but you brought up court proceedings. Of course people can attempt to sue, who knows what the outcome will be, but at this point it's been talked about for months and months already regarding business.

Can you cite a SCOTUS decision in the last 100 years that allows companies to require experimental medical treatment? The only cites I'm aware of are from the Smallpox epidemic, which certainly would be re considered now. Dr. Fauci is not a constitutional scholar, nor involved in the legal process in any way. I love the guy, and he is exceptional in his field, but I'm not taking legal advice from him. What he thinks is best and probably is best from a medical perspective is not the same as being the best in a Constitutional perspective.

Even beyond the ethical dilemma of it, there is also the fact that there is the CBA of each of the unions that have to be contended with.

 

[Jonfw2]

What other experimental medical treatments should employers be able to require? Should a company be able to require employees to take a weight loss drug if they over a certain BMI? How about a cholesterol drug? Both of those health issues have taken more lives than COVID. I would be willing to entertain the idea of mandatory vaccination once there is full FDA approval, not merely an Emergency Use Authorization, and even then only for certain fields, healthcare for instance, where there are already additional regulations and requirements. I make no claims of validity of the reasons people are not getting the vaccine. My wife has had both doses and I'm eagerly awaiting my chance to get it. But I think requiring any medical treatment of people is beyond the pale.

Can you cite a SCOTUS decision in the last 100 years that allows companies to require experimental medical treatment? The only cites I'm aware of are from the Smallpox epidemic, which certainly would be re considered now. Dr. Fauci is not a constitutional scholar, nor involved in the legal process in any way. I love the guy, and he is exceptional in his field, but I'm not taking legal advice from him. What he thinks is best and probably is best from a medical perspective is not the same as being the best in a Constitutional perspective.

Even beyond the ethical dilemma of it, there is also the fact that there is the CBA of each of the unions that have to be contended with.

Unlike a cholesterol drug, this vaccine protects people well beyond the employee- including the paying customers. That is a spectacular difference.

 

[gwynne]

What other experimental medical treatments should employers be able to require? Should a company be able to require employees to take a weight loss drug if they over a certain BMI? How about a cholesterol drug? Both of those health issues have taken more lives than COVID. I would be willing to entertain the idea of mandatory vaccination once there is full FDA approval, not merely an Emergency Use Authorization, and even then only for certain fields, healthcare for instance, where there are already additional regulations and requirements. I make no claims of validity of the reasons people are not getting the vaccine. My wife has had both doses and I'm eagerly awaiting my chance to get it. But I think requiring any medical treatment of people is beyond the pale.

Can you cite a SCOTUS decision in the last 100 years that allows companies to require experimental medical treatment? The only cites I'm aware of are from the Smallpox epidemic, which certainly would be re considered now. Dr. Fauci is not a constitutional scholar, nor involved in the legal process in any way. I love the guy, and he is exceptional in his field, but I'm not taking legal advice from him. What he thinks is best and probably is best from a medical perspective is not the same as being the best in a Constitutional perspective.

Even beyond the ethical dilemma of it, there is also the fact that there is the CBA of each of the unions that have to be contended with.

We are currently in a worldwide covid-19 pandemic.
If businesses chose to protect their employees and clients by requiring covid-19 vaccinations I believe the law will be on their side.
(With the usual medical exemptions, if applicable.)

 

[dvcgirl67]

We are currently in a worldwide covid-19 pandemic.
If businesses chose to protect their employees and clients by requiring covid-19 vaccinations I believe the law will be on their side.
(With the usual medical exemptions, if applicable.)

The law will be on their side. And someone with a higher BMI...can't infect me. Also...this vaccine will be approved by the FDA pretty quickly, which will take the experimental part of it out of the equation.

 

[Colleen27]

Unlike a cholesterol drug, this vaccine protects people well beyond the employee- including the paying customers. That is a spectacular difference.

It is, but most of the legal experts I've read who have weighed in on the idea of mandatory vaccination seem to think it would be legally problematic while the vaccine(s) are still under an EUA rather than full FDA approval. So this question might end up turning on how quickly the FDA moves to grant that and whether or not it happens before the urgency around an active pandemic has started to abate.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

What other experimental medical treatments should employers be able to require? Should a company be able to require employees to take a weight loss drug if they over a certain BMI? How about a cholesterol drug? Both of those health issues have taken more lives than COVID. I would be willing to entertain the idea of mandatory vaccination once there is full FDA approval, not merely an Emergency Use Authorization, and even then only for certain fields, healthcare for instance, where there are already additional regulations and requirements. I make no claims of validity of the reasons people are not getting the vaccine. My wife has had both doses and I'm eagerly awaiting my chance to get it. But I think requiring any medical treatment of people is beyond the pale.

Can you cite a SCOTUS decision in the last 100 years that allows companies to require experimental medical treatment? The only cites I'm aware of are from the Smallpox epidemic, which certainly would be re considered now. Dr. Fauci is not a constitutional scholar, nor involved in the legal process in any way. I love the guy, and he is exceptional in his field, but I'm not taking legal advice from him. What he thinks is best and probably is best from a medical perspective is not the same as being the best in a Constitutional perspective.

Even beyond the ethical dilemma of it, there is also the fact that there is the CBA of each of the unions that have to be contended with.

I thought to reply with the actual information well at least some examples of news articles going over this topic from over the months but then I saw you brought up constitutional rights and decided the information may fall on deaf ears. Your entire tone makes me think you might be on the defense and I'm not sure the discussion will end up as anything more than an "agree to disagree" so I'll just skip to that point

 

[Jonfw2]

It is, but most of the legal experts I've read who have weighed in on the idea of mandatory vaccination seem to think it would be legally problematic while the vaccine(s) are still under an EUA rather than full FDA approval. So this question might end up turning on how quickly the FDA moves to grant that and whether or not it happens before the urgency around an active pandemic has started to abate.

Absolutely fair points. But I still think the company’s right to employ who they choose trumps (small “t”) everything else.

 

[huskies90]

Also...this vaccine will be approved by the FDA pretty quickly, which will take the experimental part of it out of the equation.

^This. The argument about being experimental is moot since the vaccine will be seeking full FDA approval by April 2021 - well before everyone has even had the chance to get it.

 

[DLgal]

^This. The argument about being experimental is moot since the vaccine will be seeking full FDA approval by April 2021 - well before everyone has even had the chance to get it.

It's also not experimental. It has been proven to be safe and effective through clinical trials. They provided the same 2 months of safety data that EVERY SINGLE DRUG AND VACCINE before it had to provide. They just reached the end point faster.

An experimental treatment is one that has not yet run through clinical trials.

 

[amylevan]

It's also not experimental. It has been proven to be safe and effective through clinical trials. They provided the same 2 months of safety data that EVERY SINGLE DRUG AND VACCINE before it had to provide. They just reached the end point faster.

An experimental treatment is one that has not yet run through clinical trials.

Technically, full FDA approval requires 6 months of safety data, not 2 months. So EUA does not provide the same safety data that every other single drug and vaccine provides.

 

[jlwhitney]

Technically, full FDA approval requires 6 months of safety data, not 2 months. So EUA does not provide the same safety data that every other single drug and vaccine provides.

This is also one of the first if not the first drug/vaccine in a long time or ever that is being given to as many people as fast as they are during the EUA period.

 

[Jonfw2]

Couple of encouraging trends:

- % of covid tests that are positive has dropped from 14% to 9% in the last couple of weeks.
- the 7 day moving average in new cases has dropped from 254k per day down to 177k. And appears to be still falling.

The UK's daily number has begun plummeting as well, from 60k cases per day at the beginning of the month down to 37k per day now...they started vaccinating a couple of weeks before we did and 3/4 of people over 80 there have now received at least one dose.

 

[DeeBee3]

That’s still not a lot. Right now a state like NY has been getting 98k doses a week (that was the last quoted number I had seen) which is nothing for a state that populous. 12-18M doses split between 50 states takes the 98k up to 200-300k a week, which is better, but not earth shattering. Once states are finally receiving multiple millions of doses per week we can finally say there isn’t a supply problem.

I live in NY - 250,000 to 300,000 doses each week

 

[DeeBee3]

P.S. My mom and aunt just went to Javits Center in NYC for shots and it was assisted by National Guard. They said it was a great experience and very easy. In and out in 30 minutes. Made the follow-up appt and no complaints. Not even pain in the arm. We joked saying did you really get it?!