Can we talk about how bad FastPass+ is?

[OtherScott]

I'm right here on this thread, kind of rude to be so oblique. If you're going to call people out, at least be honest enough to do so directly.

its against TOS

I for one would appreciate a reference that this is currently being done in the parks, and not just conjecture and/or "Disney has a policy allowing them to do so".

"MagicBands can also be read by long-range readers located at Walt Disney World Resort used to...provide information that helps us improve the overall experience in our parks."

What information?

 

[jade1]

its against TOS



"MagicBands can also be read by long-range readers located at Walt Disney World Resort used to...provide information that helps us improve the overall experience in our parks."

What information?

I know we are a bit more on MB than FP+ with this sorry.

But assuming there was no downside to WDW knowing every step you take, what is in the upside for either the guest or WDW?

Or what is the downside when I think about it.

Especially with what they can currently get anyway.

I have ideas either way-just wondering from others.

 

[Cyrano]

Folks play nice or your posts will be gone and the thread locked

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

I know we are a bit more on MB than FP+ with this sorry.

But assuming there was no downside to WDW knowing very step you take, what is in the upside for either the guest or WDW?

Or what is the downside when I think about it.

Especially with what they can currently get anyway.

I have ideas either way-just wondering from others.

I'm hoping that they might use it to gauge where the lager crowds are during specific times of day. I get that they could get this information by just observing, but by doing it electronically, they might be able to see some sort of pattern. For example, they might discover that when Peter Pan is down, they thought that made crowds at Small World, Winnie the Pooh, and Pinocchio Village Haus larger, but they might actually see that people are leaving Fantasyland and heading to, say, Adventureland. Then, they might be better prepared for crowds when rides go down for refurbs or spontaniously. Maybe? Or, maybe they see that Rock n Roller Coaster sees larger lines when Beauty and the Beast lets out, but then they also discover that half of those people weren't at Beauty and the Beast. Then they can do research to try and figure out why that is rather than just chalking up long lines to other attractions letting out. I don't know.

 

[Peachkins]

Does anyone know if Disney let's you make your 4th FP selection from app yet? Can't keep up with changes, or kiosk only still?

As far as I know you can still only use the kiosks for a 4th FP.

 

[OtherScott]

I know we are a bit more on MB than FP+ with this sorry.

But assuming there was no downside to WDW knowing every step you take, what is in the upside for either the guest or WDW?

Or what is the downside when I think about it.

Especially with what they can currently get anyway.

I have ideas either way-just wondering from others.

To be successful, the upside has to be for both Disney and their guests. No matter how committed most here are, they don't amount to most overall. Satisfaction is still the name of the game and even greedy corporatists have to satisfy their customers.

That said, inside the parks is different (IMO) than outside at the resorts. Customers will accept a higher level of "intrusion" in the parks if they think it ultimately benefits them. I'm one of those people. Behavioral models will enhance efficiency, and everyone benefits from greater efficiency.

People can be nudged this way or that way, depending on the temperature of the park at any given moment. This is good for business because it is good for the customers. Not all customers, obviously, but statistically beneficial.

I think the resorts are significantly different in terms of expectation of privacy. They're where you "live." I can see using door key data and access to to concessions/laundry/ice as a means to determine placement and offerings, but any behavioral nudging (based on personal data) at the resort could be problematic.

 

[PEC]

One thing I think we can agree on is rather they are tracking or will be tracking where you are going through the park and what your "experience" is, this is their plan. If I had to guess I would say it has not started "yet". However lets look at TOT and the photo of you on the ride. This is not being picked up when you scan for FP+. 2 reasons. One it works even if you didn't use FP+. The second is when you scan for FP+ it does not know which elevator ride you will be on. Lots of variables. That means the reader was installed so as to find you on the placement for a particular elevator ride or the actual elevator ride itself. Maybe I missed it but I never remember TOT being down for refurbishment to install the reader. I never remember on this site anybody talking of noticing a new such device installled (could be wrong). If this is the case then the readers were installed unnoticed until individuals started pointing out what showed up in their photos. IF for tracking movement would we notice? My guess is we would because the devices would likely be more complex but IDK. Maybe some board members can look around for new devices. Sorry don't ask me. I am not going to spend my Disney time looking for electronic infrastructure devices.

 

[Sheaboys]

First I did not read all the responses. I will say, that we loved Fast Pass Plus.
1. I booked fastpasses for our family 9. Same ride, same time.
2. WE did not need a fast pass runner, to gather passes and go get them, while the rest of us head to the ride at a slower pace.
3. WE loved to slow down and relax a bit, it was nice, especially going strollerless for the first time with 5 kids.
4. We could get to parks at rope drop, get so many rides done early on with hardly any waits, before it got hot. Once the deep heat set in (yes we were there in hot, hot august) we left, went swimming. Then hit another park with 3 fast passes scheduled.
5. For those in the family who chose not to ride, we would switch bands and others would ride again.

Now I know you could do some of this with paper fast passes as well but it was just nice. No running from ride to ride, section of park to section of park, trying to get fast passes. I liked that I could move them around if needed. I could change them if needed. I did not spend more time on my smartphone then normal, often, I would hop on the phone while in the que or just getting on a ride quickly to see what wait lines were at other places.
With 9 people, they loved that I could just say, 5 min wait here, lets go here, we have a fastpass here, and another 20 minute wait here but this is air conditioned so lets wait.

I did not feel I over planned our 10 day vacation at all. But I know each person feels differently, that was just our experience.

 

[kay1864]

MagicBands can also be read by long-range readers located at Walt Disney World Resort used to deliver personalized experiences, as well as provide information that helps us improve the overall experience in our parks.

Not sure why you'd think this was an either/or situation.

I don't believe I said I did think that.

Here's what I am saying: Note the key phrase "can also be". This covers Disney for any future use (without them having to update their policy).

Just because they have a two-part disclaimer doesn't mean they have implemented both parts now.

They have them they're using them.

And you know this how, exactly? We agree they have LR sensors on rides for MM photos, and are using them.

Beyond that, how do you know they have others? "They have them they're using them" is pretty emphatic.

 

[OtherScott]

One thing I think we can agree on is rather they are tracking or will be tracking where you are going through the park and what your "experience" is, this is their plan. If I had to guess I would say it has not started "yet". However lets look at TOT and the photo of you on the ride. This is not being picked up when you scan for FP+. 2 reasons. One it works even if you didn't use FP+. The second is when you scan for FP+ it does not know which elevator ride you will be on. Lots of variables. That means the reader was installed so as to find you on the placement for a particular elevator ride or the actual elevator ride itself. Maybe I missed it but I never remember TOT being down for refurbishment to install the reader. I never remember on this site anybody talking of noticing a new such device installled (could be wrong). If this is the case then the readers were installed unnoticed until individuals started pointing out what showed up in their photos. IF for tracking movement would we notice? My guess is we would because the devices would likely be more complex but IDK. Maybe some board members can look around for new devices. Sorry don't ask me. I am not going to spend my Disney time looking for electronic infrastructure devices.

1. 1/2 of all guest don't wear an MB and still buy pictures of themselves.

2. Reader can be concealed in any plastic enclosure. The reader at my office garage is about the size of an office desk phone and picks my car up from 75 feet away moving at 20 mph - based on a sticker 1/2 size of small postage stamp on inside of windshield.

 

[Davey Jones II]

We don't mind it actually. We're here now and the past few days have been pretty slow so we can do most things without FP's. The only major snag we had was at Tower of Terror, I made the FP+ reservation an hour before our ADR at Sci-Fi. We got there on time and there was a line out to the entrance of RnR (almost) we asked about the wait, they said they weren't sure there were technical problems, we said we would try get another FP later as we had ADRs and didn't want to chance it. The cast member said not to worry and gave us a legacy pass and said to just come when we were finished eating!

Wait...those still exist?? They're not extinct??

 

[PEC]

1. 1/2 of all guest don't wear an MB and still buy pictures of themselves.

2. Reader can be concealed in any plastic enclosure. The reader at my office garage is about the size of an office desk phone and picks my car up from 75 feet away moving at 20 mph - based on a sticker 1/2 size of small postage stamp on inside of windshield.

1. I think on TOT it is more the new thing that the picture automatically shows up for people with Memory Maker without having to go by the purchase place and there is also a short video of your ride experience as well.

2. Understood. It would have to scan more than just one device but with technology it could probably be about the size of a desk phone (maybe a little larger). Correct me if I am wrong but dont they have WIFI now at Disney? If so there are boxes for WIFI at each park. Likely mulltiple ones.

 

[NavyDad]

Folks play nice or your posts will be gone and the thread locked

Cyrano - I vote that a new "Argue about FP+ until you are blue in the face" sub-board should be created.

These threads are the only place I get Bad Boy points or whatever you call them. Just better off staying away....

 

[OtherScott]

I don't believe I said I did think that.

Here's what I am saying: Note the key phrase "can also be". This covers Disney for any future use (without them having to update their policy).

Just because they have a two-part disclaimer doesn't mean they have implemented both parts now.

And you know this how, exactly? We agree they have LR sensors on rides for MM photos, and are using them.

Beyond that, how do you know they have others? "They have them they're using them" is pretty emphatic.

Rule of construction - "can also be" amplifies MagicBands, not long-range readers "located."

Yes, it covers future use. It also covers current use.

MagicBands can also be read by long-range readers located at Walt Disney World Resort used to deliver personalized experiences, as well as provide information that helps us improve the overall experience in our parks.

located - past tense
used - past tense
provide information - what information? location? time? wearer? unrelated individual data points, or aggregated into sets?
helps us - "helps," not "will help"..."us, not you"
overall experience - not just help you find your pictures

 

[kay1864]

I know we are a bit more on MB than FP+ with this sorry.

But assuming there was no downside to WDW knowing every step you take, what is in the upside for either the guest or WDW?

Or what is the downside when I think about it.

Especially with what they can currently get anyway.

I have ideas either way-just wondering from others.

I sort of agree with a PP that refers to crowd control (yes they could use overhead cameras, but counting hits from an RFID is a LOT easier to code software for), except for one thing:

This only tracks MB guests. Which is a minority of the crowds.

Possible upsides for MB guests (spitballing here):
- If a guest doesn't have an ADR, a digital restaurant coupon appears on their smartphone for the land they're in (an alert, or displayed with their FP selections).
- In the same vein, store coupons.
- An alert that a different FP time window has opened up for the land they're in.

Possible upsides for Disney:
- Increased restaurant attendance. Or even restaurant crowd control (directing guests to lower-volume restaurants, so they don't give up on long lines and visit a snack cart instead)
- Increased shopping
- Not sure how tracking MB guests' movements (even in aggregate) helps Disney. I can see where it helps them to know where I am now. I can't see why they want to know where I've been (or where crowds have been). They can get that data from wait times. Maybe to direct crowds to less-crowded lands? Not sure how they could even do that.

 

[madkins22]

I totally agree!! Just got back and don't know when I will return. Who wants to plan every minute of their vacation OR stand in line forever if they don't. Used to be my favorite place, but left two days early and wasted 3 days of passes. Way more stressful than two years ago and doesn't even compare to the good old days. Downtown Disney is next. So sad but all good things seem to end or change for the worse.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

I honestly have no idea why some refuse to believe Disney isn't using them to data mine and track guests movements. They've told you they are.

They ARE. But they are NOT using them to track every single move you make and see exactly where you are the entire time you are inside a Disney park or resort. Do they know what park you are in, yes, do they know you are riding a ride because you scanned in or triggered a picture, yes, do they know you are in a bar or or the restroom? Do they know you are currently watching Voices of Liberty? No. Do they know you are walking through Frontierland, no. Unless you buy something in that area and charge it to your room they don't know THAT much.

 

[jade1]

Possible upsides for MB guests (spitballing here):
- If a guest doesn't have an ADR, a digital restaurant coupon appears on their smartphone for the land they're in (an alert, or displayed with their FP selections).
- In the same vein, store coupons.
- An alert that a different FP time window has opened up for the land they're in.

Possible upsides for Disney:
- Increased restaurant attendance. Or even restaurant crowd control (directing guests to lower-volume restaurants, so they don't give up on long lines and visit a snack cart instead)
- Increased shopping
- Not sure how tracking MB guests' movements (even in aggregate) helps Disney. I can see where it helps them to know where I am now. I can't see why they want to know where I've been (or where crowds have been). They can get that data from wait times. Maybe to direct crowds to less-crowded lands? Not sure how they could even do that.

Like the ideas.

 

[OtherScott]

I sort of agree with a PP that refers to crowd control (yes they could use overhead cameras, but counting hits from an RFID is a LOT easier to code software for), except for one thing:

This only tracks MB guests. Which is a minority of the crowds.

Possible upsides for MB guests (spitballing here):
- If a guest doesn't have an ADR, a digital restaurant coupon appears on their smartphone for the land they're in (an alert, or displayed with their FP selections).
- In the same vein, store coupons.
- An alert that a different FP time window has opened up for the land they're in.

Possible upsides for Disney:
- Increased restaurant attendance. Or even restaurant crowd control (directing guests to lower-volume restaurants, so they don't give up on long lines and visit a snack cart instead)
- Increased shopping
- Not sure how tracking MB guests' movements (even in aggregate) helps Disney. I can see where it helps them to know where I am now. I can't see why they want to know where I've been (or where crowds have been). They can get that data from wait times. Maybe to direct crowds to less-crowded lands? Not sure how they could even do that.

This is exactly how it is designed to work (minus coupons and discounts).

Knowing where you have already been and what you have already done will be vital in determining what is offered to induce you to stay. Offering and ADR to someone who ate an hour ago, or an FP for a ride you did this morning and will do again Sunday at 10:15 would be a waste.

And this will be aggregated with what everyone else has done and is planning to do, not just today but yesterday and tomorrow.

$2 billion

 

[PEC]

I sort of agree with a PP that refers to crowd control (yes they could use overhead cameras, but counting hits from an RFID is a LOT easier to code software for), except for one thing:

This only tracks MB guests. Which is a minority of the crowds.

Possible upsides for MB guests (spitballing here):
- If a guest doesn't have an ADR, a digital restaurant coupon appears on their smartphone for the land they're in (an alert, or displayed with their FP selections).
- In the same vein, store coupons.
- An alert that a different FP time window has opened up for the land they're in.

Possible upsides for Disney:
- Increased restaurant attendance. Or even restaurant crowd control (directing guests to lower-volume restaurants, so they don't give up on long lines and visit a snack cart instead)
- Increased shopping
- Not sure how tracking MB guests' movements (even in aggregate) helps Disney. I can see where it helps them to know where I am now. I can't see why they want to know where I've been (or where crowds have been). They can get that data from wait times. Maybe to direct crowds to less-crowded lands? Not sure how they could even do that.

Good points.
Businesses use historical data all the time (and yes this could turn into info overload for Disney). Could be trends to see that knowing overall park levels, wait times etc. with this they could possibly get an idea of difference in flow of resort guest/MB holders vs just ticket holders.