Calling someone "Dr." outside of medical setting

[Burnedout]

No, nor would I know you were a doctor if I were a perfect stranger. Everyone would be Mr. or Ms. However, I have gotten backlash for using Ms. and been corrected to use Mrs. or visa versa. People get touchy about it sometimes. And what do you do with the ambiguous "Pat". You're bound to offend if you use Mr. and it's Ms. or Ms. and and it's Mr. Sometimes you can't win for trying.

FWIW, I always use Mr., Ms., Mrs. until told otherwise. But I do find it amusing that my "position" gives others the right to refer to me by my first name without being invited to do so. Just because I'm a secretary without a degree, it gives others the right to refer to me by my first name? There are plenty of instances where others feel it's fine to call you by your first name because of the job you do. I find that hypocritical.

I work all day with some of the most intelligent people in some fields in the country. I have no problem acknowledging and being impressed. But I have a phd also. Maybe your cavalier attitude comes from your lack of the same education as those attorneys

 

[ashley0139]

Maybe everyone should just stop addressing anyone else at all, at the risk of offending someone. It's pretty obvious by this thread that every person has different ideas of what's appropriate. And obviously it's just devastating if someone calls you Mr. instead of Dr. or Mrs. instead of Ms.

 

[soccerdad72]

Our family doctor is also a close family friend. When at his house hanging out, I call him by his first name. But when in his office, as a patient, I call him Doctor.

At work (at a community college), we have a number of Ph.D's around. Those that are professors, I generally refer to as Doctor. On the other hand, my co-worker also has a Ph.D, but nobody refers to her as Doctor, mostly because she's not a professor. Oh, and she annoys everyone.

 

[Wendy31]

I address people in the way I'm introduced to them.

If I know a person's title & I'm not on a "first name" basis with the person, I will call them by his/her title.

I'm not sure why I wouldn't?

If I have an acquaintance who happens to be a doctor, & he & his wife are introduced to me as John & Jane Smith - "Nice to meet you! I'm John, & this is my wife Jane." I will then refer to them as John & Jane Smith & have my children refer to them as Dr. Smith & Mrs. Smith or whatever they've asked/prefer my children to call them.

If I know someone's title, when I address envelopes (invitations, Christmas cards, etc.), then I address his/her invitation using his/her title.

And I usually always address a person who is older than I as Mr./Mrs./Ms./Dr./etc. until or unless they've asked me to call them by their first name. If I only know them by their first names or that's how they're introduced to me, then I will refer to them by their first names.

When my kids were in school, I referred to their teachers as Mr. & Mrs. - even if I ran into them in a setting outside of the school.

Regarding military rank, of course, I'm going to address someone by his/her military rank in the same way that I would address someone as Doctor.

We have family friend who is a Captain in the military. I'm on a first name speaking basis w/ him, so, in conversation, I call him by & refer to him by his first name. However, if I'm addressing an envelope, I'll use his Captain title.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I work all day with some of the most intelligent people in some fields in the country. I have no problem acknowledging and being impressed. But I have a phd also. Maybe your cavalier attitude comes from your lack of the same education as those attorneys

Oh please. I am not that insecure that I feel my only worth in life comes from a piece of paper. Respect as a human being is far more important than respect for an academic achievement. And while I am very impressed with some of the people I work with, others not so much. And I've worked with some very big names who work for very big names. Those who need to flaunt their degree and make sure to announce their accomplishments are no different than every B actor or actress who shows up at a club and uses the phrase "Don't you know who I am?" My bosses respect me and my skills and I am highly regarded in my department. Do I wish I had furthered my education? Absolutely. But do I think I'm somehow lacking of respect because I didn't obtain a degree? Absolutely not. Respect is earned by the way you treat others, not by a designation before or after your name. Some people are easily impressed, not me.

 

[Wendy31]

Oh please. I am not that insecure that I feel my only worth in life comes from a piece of paper. Respect as a human being is far more important than respect for an academic achievement. And while I am very impressed with some of the people I work with, others not so much. And I've worked with some very big names who work for very big names. Those who need to flaunt their degree and make sure to announce their accomplishments are no different than every B actor or actress who shows up at a club and uses the phrase "Don't you know who I am?" My bosses respect me and my skills and I am highly regarded in my department. Do I wish I had furthered my education? Absolutely. But do I think I'm somehow lacking of respect because I didn't obtain a degree? Absolutely not. Respect is earned by the way you treat others, not by a designation before or after your name. Some people are easily impressed, not me.

But, see, for me, how I address a person has very little to do w/ how much or how little I'm impressed by the person or his/her credentials or how much I may or may not respect the person.

I used to work at a college & knew lots of doctors. W/ some of those doctors, I was impressed & w/ others, not so much. (In fact, some of the doctors were absolute jokes.) However, I still addressed them as Doctor - it was the correct thing to do. If I happened to see any of them outside of the college, I addressed them as Doctors unless or until they asked me to call them by their first names or if I had been introduced to them w/ only their first & last names. I worked in Human Resources, & there was one professor in our English department who was absolutely condescending, pretentious, & a jerk. I still called her Doctor [Last Name].

Again, I typically call people (w/ whom I'm not on a "first name" basis) by how I've been introduced to them or by their correct titles until or unless they've asked me to call them something different.

I guess, for me, how I address people is a manner of etiquette & manners & not necessarily a reflection of how I personally feel about the person.

 

[eliza61]

But important enough that she needs to be abrupt with a hostess in a restaurant? And yes, I would consider it abrupt to correct a hostess who is trying to seat you.

Whoaa, why would you think I'm abrupt? LOL. I've got the southern manners combine with 12 years of catholic school beat into me.

usually most hostesses at a restaurant will just say "X" party.
At a spa, the hostess might say "hello Ms. X" right this way and I simply say Mrs. X.

Never had one, not one remotely seem to phase them.

In fact if they work with John Q. public for any length of time I'm sure they are corrected all the time.

stating a prefernce does not equal being rude or abrupt.

I just went to closing on my new house, the administrative assistant at the title company was showing me to the conference room. She said right this way ms X and I simply said, "Mrs. X" and then she smiled and said, "oh thank you...can I get you some thing to drink, coffee, tea water?". Now that's professional, and courteous. wonderful business interaction with a stranger.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Whoaa, why would you think I'm abrupt? LOL. I've got the southern manners combine with 12 years of catholic school beat into me.

usually most hostesses at a restaurant will just say "X" party.
At a spa, the hostess might say "hello Ms. X" right this way and I simply say Mrs. X.

Never had one, not one remotely seem to phase them.

In fact if they work with John Q. public for any length of time I'm sure they are corrected all the time.

stating a prefernce does not equal being rude or abrupt.

I just went to closing on my new house, the administrative assistant at the title company was showing me to the conference room. She said right this way ms X and I simply said, "Mrs. X" and then she smiled and said, "oh thank you...can I get you some thing to drink, coffee, tea water?". Now that's professional, and courteous. wonderful business interaction with a stranger.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just don't understand why you care whether a complete stranger, who you will more than likely never see again, must address you by your preferred designation. What does it matter to that other person that you need to correct them? If they are using Ms. they are obviously already trying to be delicate with your marital situation, not assuming one way or the other. I don't understand why people are offended by the Ms. designation. I just don't see why it's a conversation (so to speak) you need to have with a stranger. If this were someone you were going to be interacting with frequently, so be it. But even then, they may see 30-40-50 people on a daily basis, and you feel the need to correct them? They should have to remember everyone's preference (i.e., Miss, Ms., Mrs., Mr., Sir, Doctor...) To me it seems like an inconsequential thing to bother someone about that is seating you for dinner.

I guess we just agree to disagree because I just don't see it. In work some of the secretaries want to me known as "Administrative Assistant", some want to be known as "Assistant to So and So" (and yet will not use this designation if they work for associates, only if they work for partners, like somehow who they are attached to makes them better), and many of them are offended at being called "Secretary". Honestly, I couldn't care less. Whatever you call me doesn't change the amount of my paycheck. I'm not concerned with titles. I do, however, show the appropriate respect if someone prefers to be called Mr. as opposed to their first name. And I do begin every new introduction assuming Mr./Ms. until I am told otherwise.

 

[bcla]

Excuse me. I didn't dismiss you.

I beg your pardon?

I'm not through with my examination. Sit down.

Colonel!

What's that?

I would appreciate it if he would address me as "Colonel" or "Sir." I believe I've earned it.

Defense counsel will address the witness as "Colonel" or "Sir."

I don't know what the hell kind of unit you're running here.

And the witness will address this court as "Judge" or "Your Honor." I'm quite certain I've earned it. Take your seat, Colonel.

 

[Imhere]

Excuse me. I didn't dismiss you.

I beg your pardon?

I'm not through with my examination. Sit down.

Colonel!

What's that?

I would appreciate it if he would address me as "Colonel" or "Sir." I believe I've earned it.

Defense counsel will address the witness as "Colonel" or "Sir."

I don't know what the hell kind of unit you're running here.

And the witness will address this court as "Judge" or "Your Honor." I'm quite certain I've earned it. Take your seat, Colonel.

But, where's the mess hall?

 

[Burnedout]

And I do begin every new introduction assuming Mr./Ms. until I am told otherwise.

But if they tell yu they are abrupt and pretentious...

 

[PrincessKsMom]

But if they tell yu they are abrupt and pretentious...

Not at all if it's a business setting. If it's a personal setting, yes.

 

[carriemd]

I'm in a corresponding situation in academia, with my doctorate in law. I've also worked long periods in government. In an academic setting, "Dr ___" and "Professor ___" are standard, and indeed the default option: if I meet someone at a conference, we usually get to a first-name basis fairly quickly, but if I'm sending e-mails or asking for someone over the phone, and there is the slightest bit of doubt, I would always use the honorific.

When I was in government, I was very much involved in international work, and learned quite soon that titles matter. In my experience, especially the Germans are very particular about titles. In Germany, if you have completed your doctorate (what the Germans call the Habilitationsschrift, the "qualifying thesis"), you are not simply a "Dr", you are a "Dr Dr". (I kid you not!) I remember one German professor who always used his full title: "Professor Dr Dr _____ (honoris causa, mult)", which was quite a mouthful. The "Professor" alluded to his present academic position, the "Dr Dr" to the fact that he has a doctorate, the "honoris causa" to the fact that he had received one honorary doctorate, and the "mult" the fact that he has more than one honorary doctorate. Woe the poor pencil-pusher who left even one of these elements out of his title!

Do you have a D.L. or a S.J.D.? Just curious, I've never met a lawyer in the US who qualified as "Doctor." Most attorneys in the US (who went to law school in the US) don't have a doctorate, so it's a different situation than a Ph.D.
I used to work for an online school that insisted its law professors, who held JD,s be called Doctor. Ew. I've sometimes heard lawyers call themselves Doctor, when they had a JD, which is incorrect. Well, it's actually just incredibly self important and kind of embarrassing. I do not deserve to be called doctor; I see my J.D. as quite different than a Ph.D. or an M.D., D.O., etc.
And I call my older colleagues Mr. so and so, but I do call my opposing counsel by their first name.

 

[eliza61]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just don't understand why you care whether a complete stranger, who you will more than likely never see again, must address you by your preferred designation. What does it matter to that other person that you need to correct them? If they are using Ms. they are obviously already trying to be delicate with your marital situation, not assuming one way or the other. I don't understand why people are offended by the Ms. designation. I just don't see why it's a conversation (so to speak) you need to have with a stranger. If this were someone you were going to be interacting with frequently, so be it. But even then, they may see 30-40-50 people on a daily basis, and you feel the need to correct them? They should have to remember everyone's preference (i.e., Miss, Ms., Mrs., Mr., Sir, Doctor...) To me it seems like an inconsequential thing to bother someone about that is seating you for dinner.

I guess we just agree to disagree because I just don't see it. In work some of the secretaries want to me known as "Administrative Assistant", some want to be known as "Assistant to So and So" (and yet will not use this designation if they work for associates, only if they work for partners, like somehow who they are attached to makes them better), and many of them are offended at being called "Secretary". Honestly, I couldn't care less. Whatever you call me doesn't change the amount of my paycheck. I'm not concerned with titles. I do, however, show the appropriate respect if someone prefers to be called Mr. as opposed to their first name. And I do begin every new introduction assuming Mr./Ms. until I am told otherwise.

It's all good like I said, for me it's simply a matter of manners.

Would you correct some one who mispronounced your name? every thing in my life is not a matter of "caring". some things are a simply a matter of a preference. If some one gets my name wrong, I may not "care" about it but yes I will tell them the correct pronunciation.

A hostess "job" is to be inviting and professional. depending on the situation they are the front face of your business. Now in some places like the cheesecake factory, it doesn't matter because they generally call your last name and tell you to wait to the side, then the hostess seats you without even saying your name.
Some restaurants like Victoria and Alberts, it's a bit more. There the hostess or maître d is more engaging more professional. They will call you by the reservation name.

if they mispronounce a last name, they quickly bounce back and pronounce it correctly. I like that.

For me it's an extension of your last line. If I introduce a perfect stranger to some one and I know they are a "Dr", I simply think the correct way is to introduce them as such.

Now as far as "caring"? well depends on how you define caring. When I check into the Beach club and they say "welcome home Mrs. X", yeah I love it, it distinguishes Disney from let say great adventure and I would be dismayed if they said simply "welcome home" or "can I help you" would it ruin my vacation? No, would I mention it on a survey they sent me after my vacation. darn tooting. for me the little things in life make it special and different. My dh and his partner did make sure their receptionist knew who was coming in on a particular day, what clients were to be seen and she definitely addressed each and every one correctly. They were the first contact for their business. Whether it was 10, 20 or 100

that's just me.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Do you have a D.L. or a S.J.D.? Just curious, I've never met a lawyer in the US who qualified as "Doctor." Most attorneys in the US (who went to law school in the US) don't have a doctorate, so it's a different situation than a Ph.D.
I used to work for an online school that insisted its law professors, who held JD,s be called Doctor. Ew. I've sometimes heard lawyers call themselves Doctor, when they had a JD, which is incorrect. Well, it's actually just incredibly self important and kind of embarrassing. I do not deserve to be called doctor; I see my J.D. as quite different than a Ph.D. or an M.D., D.O., etc.
And I call my older colleagues Mr. so and so, but I do call my opposing counsel by their first name.

Just curious (not being snarky), what do you call the judge if you only know him/her outside your profession? We had one in the family & just called him "Phil"

 

[eliza61]

But, where's the mess hall?

Hey if Jack sparrow, can insist that they get his title right, "Captain Jack Sparrow", then so can I.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

If I know a person has a doctorate, I will always address them as "Dr." This applies to MD, PhD, and other doctorates. There has only been one occasion when I did not do this and that was back when I was in college and working at the student health center. I worked in medical records and our supervisor had a PhD. He requested that we not address him as Dr since he was in a clinic setting. Something about not wanting students to get the wrong idea and him not being able to help out if there was a medical emergency. I don't really know. He requested we not address him as such so I complied. For everyone else, though, I do use the title.


Edited to include that exceptions are also made for those holding a doctorate of jurisprudence.

 

[carriemd]

Just curious (not being snarky), what do you call the judge if you only know him/her outside your profession? We had one in the family & just called him "Phil"

Hmmm...if it's a former colleague who's been "promoted," first name (or Mr. blahblah if he hasn't INSISTED I call him first name). The only other judge I know who I haven't appeared before was the one I worked for, and he was "Judge lastname."
The Mr, for my older colleagues, is mainly a generational/respect thing. As a 30-some year old fairly inexperienced junior attorney, I have a hard time calling a senior attorney with 30 years experience, from whom I get professional advice, Joe.
I use the male form here, BTW< because in my situation all the senior civilian folks are men. No other reason. I am a government attorney, for the DOD, so senior military (Colonel and Lt Colonel) get their rank.
And ETA, again, I realize I still didn't answer the question bc I guess I don't have a similar situation. Sorry! But thinking about it, I've never in a social situation called someone doctor, or judge bc people who insist on that at a superbowl party or whatever are not really people I socialize with. We never call military people their ranks outside of work, but I still do call most senior FGOs/people who outrank my husband "sir" or "ma'am."

 

[bcla]

I recently heard an interview with Elton John, where the interviewer stopped abruptly and asked him if he would like to be referred to as "Sir" as he has been knighted as a Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. He was taken aback as if he appreciated the thought but was embarrased that anyone would think it would be required to refer to him as "Sir Elton John".

 

[EMom]

Do you have a D.L. or a S.J.D.? Just curious, I've never met a lawyer in the US who qualified as "Doctor." Most attorneys in the US (who went to law school in the US) don't have a doctorate, so it's a different situation than a Ph.D.
I used to work for an online school that insisted its law professors, who held JD,s be called Doctor. Ew. I've sometimes heard lawyers call themselves Doctor, when they had a JD, which is incorrect. Well, it's actually just incredibly self important and kind of embarrassing. I do not deserve to be called doctor; I see my J.D. as quite different than a Ph.D. or an M.D., D.O., etc.
And I call my older colleagues Mr. so and so, but I do call my opposing counsel by their first name.

We earned a Doctor of Jurisprudence. I have never asked to be called doctor. No lawyer I know has.

I call medical doctors and dentists "Dr." and I'd probably called a Ph.D. working in an academic setting "Dr." However, if I just meet a Ph.D on the street/at a party, I likely would not call them "Dr."