Calling someone "Dr." outside of medical setting

There is no way this isn't going to come off as pretentious, but: having met two presidents, you absolutely refer to them as Mr. President or President X. Also, having met or worked with a number of the titles you mentioned, I've always used titles: Congressman Smith, Madame Ambassador, etc.

I'd argue that it's fine to refer to them in the third person by plain titles (e.g. Mr. Obama, Mr. Barzun, Ms. Pelosi), but when addressing an officeholder directly, you refer to them with proper titles.

I would also argue that, with few exceptions, correcting people as to your title is generally quite rude. This, however, is predicated on the idea that people won't make a giant fuss about basic rules of politeness and addresses you by the proper title to begin with.

Let's put it this way: if someone calls you Mr. Dancer, it's gracious to say "No, call me Jim." If someone calls you Jim, in most situations it's tricky to say, "Please call me Mr. Dancer." Manners are about making things easy for those around you. You don't want to put someone in the situation of having to choose between being persnickety or being called the right thing. So the default is to be more formal, at which point the person with whom you're speaking can insist on informality if they so choose. It's not hard--it's about thinking of others.

This is how I was raised and how I still am.

And as for the original question, if I know that an acquaintance is generally referred to as Dr., whether by virtue of a medical degree or a PhD, I am going to call them Dr., unless they tell me otherwise. I don't put "Dr" above "Mr" - they are just different titles. Same way a "Miss" becomes a "Mrs." when a certain event in her life occurs (marriage), a "Mr." may become a "Dr." under certain conditions, or maybe a "Sir" or "Lord" or a "Senator".
 
Okay here is a scenario for you all....which I think is a lot closer to the original intention of this thread than those in which you know the person personally or they are your Dr or whether or not they ask you to call them a certain thing.

Let's say you own a bookstore. A prominent local doctor walks in to purchase something. So, you know him and of him, but you don't know him personally. But, he is not YOUR doctor, and you have never been formally introduced. He doesn't introduce himself as anything. Just browses, and eventually comes up to purchase something.

He hands you his credit card, which shows his first name, not that you didn't already know it. You know he's a doctor. HE probably knows you know he's a doctor, since he is so well-known in the area. Now, as you are ringing him up, making polite conversation...you want to be personal with him, as you would with any of your customers.

Do you call him by his first name or Dr?
 
Okay here is a scenario for you all....which I think is a lot closer to the original intention of this thread than those in which you know the person personally or they are your Dr or whether or not they ask you to call them a certain thing.

Let's say you own a bookstore. A prominent local doctor walks in to purchase something. So, you know him and of him, but you don't know him personally. But, he is not YOUR doctor, and you have never been formally introduced. He doesn't introduce himself as anything. Just browses, and eventually comes up to purchase something.

He hands you his credit card, which shows his first name, not that you didn't already know it. You know he's a doctor. HE probably knows you know he's a doctor, since he is so well-known in the area. Now, as you are ringing him up, making polite conversation...you want to be personal with him, as you would with any of your customers.

Do you call him by his first name or Dr?

Good hypothetical :)

Personally, I would probably call him Doctor in that situation.
 

I would call him Dr. X, since I know that's the title he would usually be referred to.

If I didn't know him at all and didn't know he was a doctor, I would call him Mr. X. If he corrected me with a genuine smile I would not take it badly; in fact, I'd probably apologize and he'd brush it off and all would be well.

I would only call him by his first name if he were significantly younger than me, or maybe if he had a really casual attitude.
 
By asking to be called what is widely viewed as a superior title in social settings you are coming across as though you think you are superior to those without the title which of course you are not. I don't care if you are a janitor, Chief of Staff at a world renowned hospital, or spend the greater part of a decade getting some advanced degree in your field of study. When in a social setting everyone is equal so they get an equal honorific from me.

You, of course, can do as you choose just as I can.

:thumbsup2

If I'm ever in a social situation where people don't go by first names, people with PhD's must be called doctors, get me out of there. Snoozefest
 
Maybe you missed the tongue firmly implanted in my cheek.

I know they would help. And that's why they deserve the title "doctor", both in and out of the office.

I didn't miss your tongue in cheese.... But I think you missed mine. ;)

Since I'm a nurse who worked hard for my education is it OK for me to insist that strangers that I meet in restaurants and grocery stores call me Nurse DusneyDoll? Because even if they didnt, I'd still save their life if something happened while I was there.
 
If everyone is going by first names, I would agree with you. If there is a mix of titles and first names and you don't know the person well enough to call him John, and you are going to use his last name AND you know that he is a Dr., you should use the title.

It has nothing to do with being superior. The title of Dr. has nothing to do with someone's job.

Of course it does. Doctor is what someone dies for a living.
 
Okay here is a scenario for you all....which I think is a lot closer to the original intention of this thread than those in which you know the person personally or they are your Dr or whether or not they ask you to call them a certain thing.

Let's say you own a bookstore. A prominent local doctor walks in to purchase something. So, you know him and of him, but you don't know him personally. But, he is not YOUR doctor, and you have never been formally introduced. He doesn't introduce himself as anything. Just browses, and eventually comes up to purchase something.

He hands you his credit card, which shows his first name, not that you didn't already know it. You know he's a doctor. HE probably knows you know he's a doctor, since he is so well-known in the area. Now, as you are ringing him up, making polite conversation...you want to be personal with him, as you would with any of your customers.

Do you call him by his first name or Dr?

I'd probably say "thank you for your purchase sir."
 
Of course it does. Doctor is what someone dies for a living.

Dr. is the degree they earned. What they choose to do with it is what they do for a living.

I think some are going on about people who insist on being called Dr. I, personally, have only known one person that insisted anyone call her Dr. Her degree was not recognized by the college and she became a stickler for being called Dr. by everyone. Other than that all 20 or so of the Dr.s at our campus and in administration do not insist on it or even introduce or identify themselves as Dr. But, we do know their title. And, as such, imho, it would be very rude to call them Mr. or Mrs. instead of Dr. in any setting. If someone is on first name basis with them, that's different.
 
There is no way this isn't going to come off as pretentious, but: having met two presidents, you absolutely refer to them as Mr. President or President X. Also, having met or worked with a number of the titles you mentioned, I've always used titles: Congressman Smith, Madame Ambassador, etc.

I'd argue that it's fine to refer to them in the third person by plain titles (e.g. Mr. Obama, Mr. Barzun, Ms. Pelosi), but when addressing an officeholder directly, you refer to them with proper titles.

I was brought up in two worlds, the egalitarian American one, and the much more formal European one. As I said, in academia - even in the U.S. - I would use the formal "Dr" or "Professor" in cases of doubt, although I have long been on a first-name basis with most of the persons that I work with. (Except my secretary. For some reason, she prefers to be addressed as Ms [Surname], and I have always respected her request.) As for my students, I expect them to address me as “Professor”.

When I worked for the government, in international affairs, the default option was the title, or the title plus the surname. There are just so many different cultures, and the uninvited use of the first name can sound condescending. So, yes, it was almost invariably "Madame Ambassador" and the like. Once we walked out of the meeting room and to the cafeteria for lunch, we would now and then use first names, but as soon as we returned to the formal negotiations, I would generally slip back to using the honorific.

That, however, was at work. As many previous posters have indicated, the situation is different if the only contact you have with someone with a formal title (Ambassador or whatever) is in a private setting, for example as your neighbor. I would introduce myself to a new neighbor as [first name] [last name], and then see how he or she reacts, and take it from there. I am old school enough to expect that children address me as Mr [last name], but am quite flexible as to whether other adults want to call me by my first name or as Mr [last name].

And while we’re at it – and not that it would ever happen – if I should bump into a former President, I would definitely refer to him as Mr President.

Do you have a D.L. or a S.J.D.? Just curious, I've never met a lawyer in the US who qualified as "Doctor." Most attorneys in the US (who went to law school in the US) don't have a doctorate, so it's a different situation than a Ph.D.

You're right. In my case, I started with the J.D. degree (which, in the U.S., is the basic law degree) but then continued to get two more degrees in Europe, with the second one being the J.S.D. degree.
 
By asking to be called what is widely viewed as a superior title in social settings you are coming across as though you think you are superior to those without the title which of course you are not. I don't care if you are a janitor, Chief of Staff at a world renowned hospital, or spend the greater part of a decade getting some advanced degree in your field of study. When in a social setting everyone is equal so they get an equal honorific from me.

You, of course, can do as you choose just as I can.

No. I'd call them Mr. and Mrs. Obama even if one or both of them had a PhD.

Jeez! If you are going to use any titles/honorifics at all, why not use the correct one rather than appear unsophisticated and/or impolite.
 
...makes me think of this

848x440px-f1bed5cb_3172_Dr_Evil.jpeg

It's Dr. Evil, I didn't spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called "mister," thank you very much.
 
I was brought up in two worlds, the egalitarian American one, and the much more formal European one. As I said, in academia - even in the U.S. - I would use the formal "Dr" or "Professor" in cases of doubt, although I have long been on a first-name basis with most of the persons that I work with. (Except my secretary. For some reason, she prefers to be addressed as Ms [Surname], and I have always respected her request.) As for my students, I expect them to address me as “Professor”.

When I worked for the government, in international affairs, the default option was the title, or the title plus the surname. There are just so many different cultures, and the uninvited use of the first name can sound condescending. So, yes, it was almost invariably "Madame Ambassador" and the like. Once we walked out of the meeting room and to the cafeteria for lunch, we would now and then use first names, but as soon as we returned to the formal negotiations, I would generally slip back to using the honorific.

That, however, was at work. As many previous posters have indicated, the situation is different if the only contact you have with someone with a formal title (Ambassador or whatever) is in a private setting, for example as your neighbor. I would introduce myself to a new neighbor as [first name] [last name], and then see how he or she reacts, and take it from there. I am old school enough to expect that children address me as Mr [last name], but am quite flexible as to whether other adults want to call me by my first name or as Mr [last name].

And while we’re at it – and not that it would ever happen – if I should bump into a former President, I would definitely refer to him as Mr President.

You're right. In my case, I started with the J.D. degree (which, in the U.S., is the basic law degree) but then continued to get two more degrees in Europe, with the second one being the J.S.D. degree.

I've had the privilege in my life of being introduced to three of our Presidents, two former (President Jimmy Carter and President George W. Bush) and one newly inaugurated (President Bill Clinton); different parties, different amount of time each had been in or out of office, but in every case they received an heartfelt "What an honor to meet you, Mr. President!" Every person around me did the same. I guess I am old school but certain positions demand respect.

Likewise, if I was ever lucky enough to meet the Queen of England (or Prince William and Kate), I would sincerely curtsy and say "Your Majesty."
 
I've had the privilege in my life of being introduced to three of our Presidents, two former (President Jimmy Carter and President George W. Bush) and one newly inaugurated (President Bill Clinton); different parties, different amount of time each had been in or out of office, but in every case they received an heartfelt "What an honor to meet you, Mr. President!" Every person around me did the same. I guess I am old school but certain positions demand respect.

Likewise, if I was ever lucky enough to meet the Queen of England (or Prince William and Kate), I would sincerely curtsy and say "Your Majesty."

I *think* only the Queen is "your majesty." The other members of the family are "your royal highness." But I agree that they deserve the courtesy.
 
Yes. My GYN goes to my church, in a different mass. But when I do happen to see him, I do call him Dr. Kiley not David. That would feel odd.
 
I've had the privilege in my life of being introduced to three of our Presidents, two former (President Jimmy Carter and President George W. Bush) and one newly inaugurated (President Bill Clinton); different parties, different amount of time each had been in or out of office, but in every case they received an heartfelt "What an honor to meet you, Mr. President!" Every person around me did the same. I guess I am old school but certain positions demand respect.

Likewise, if I was ever lucky enough to meet the Queen of England (or Prince William and Kate), I would sincerely curtsy and say "Your Majesty."

You do move in refined circles!

And I agree, U.S. Presidents past and former deserve respect, which I give them regardless of whether or not I voted for them - it's the position that deserves respect.

And Queen Elizabeth II very much has shown that she is deserving of respect, as Queen and as a person.

But a question of etiquette: does one address a prince as "Your Majesty"? I thought that was limited to the reigning monarch, and sundry princes and princess would be "Your Highness". (Please tell me - I'm heading for WDW next Wednesday, and there is a strong chance that I'll meet a Disney Princess! :) )


EDIT: thanks, Janepod - you just answered my question!
 
My husband is an MD. When being introduced, it is always First name, Last name, never Dr Last name. In social settings people call him by the first name, but if it is a situation in which they would usually call him Mr Last name, and they know he is a doctor, people usually say Dr Last name. In public, the only people who all him Dr are typically people who see him in a medical setting. He never corrects people or asks them to call him Dr. Usually people know us for a long time before they even know he's a physician.

He is also a mid ranking officer in the military, and in military settings he is usually referred to by his rank and last name, except for when he is in the hospital working. Then he's Dr Last name. Technically, until he reaches O6, Dr Last name is the correct title, because you call someone by the highest ranking title, and Dr outranks military ranks until O6. Years of military Academy training drummed that one in to his head, that's how we know. But almost no one knows this, and once again, he never corrects anyone.

I always introduce him just with his first name.
 














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