Back to School during the pandemic ...a discussion thread

[pigletto]

We are at my parents cottage and just catching up to all of this news . For my son ( who is 16) they will be mandating masks , cohorts of 15 , and every other day alternating in school /online. I am very pleased to see they are providing funds to teachers for PPE and I’m very happy to see public health nurses being hired .
Now the next steps in my decision is seeing how the board will implement these things. I feel it’s about as safe as they can be for the high school in theory. Hopefully will be the same in practice .

 

[Renarr]

So is it high schoolers going every other day just because they are making class sizes smaller so suddenly they will need twice as many actual classes? I assume teachers are going to have to teach every day?

I've heard this envisioned in one of two ways. Let's suppose a district has A days and B days.

(1) Some districts have half the class in person on A days and the other half the class doing independent work remotely. Then, on B days, the other half of the class comes in to learn in person and the first half does independent work remotely.

(2) What my district wants to try (without really any training so far on this) is to have half the class in person on A days, while the other half synchronously follows remotely. Then, on B days, the other half of the class comes in to learn in person while the first half synchronously follows remotely.

In the first scenario, you're only really getting half the learning in.

In the second scenario, you're getting more "days of instruction" in, but your instructional style is going to look a lot more like "live remote instruction" because you'll have to be giving access to your remote students. Meaning that some of the benefits of in-person instruction (students having less time on laptops, students working with manipulatives, etc.) could be lost unless carefully implemented, if at all.

EDITS for clarity.

 

[jba2]

Yeah, it will be interesting to see what September actually looks like from class to class. I’ve been teaching full day kindergarten since it began in our school 10 years ago. But I’m moving to a grade 2/3 split class this year.

I know the recommended average number of students in kindergarten with a teacher and ECE is 26, but that’s just an average across the board. I’m usually close to 30 students each year. I’ve heard of other schools with much higher numbers, but to have 40 kids in one kindergarten class just sounds nuts to me!

I know the class sizes for Kindergarten at my school this year is currently at about 28 students. I’m not certain at this point if they’ll even try to make those class sizes smaller.

 

[jba2]

FDK classes should be capped at 29. There are many classes running above the "cap".

 

[bababear_50]

Ontario
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/7010472-Guidance-Document-FINAL-En.html#pages/p1
Mel

 

[TammyLynn33]

Where are you guys getting board specific info? I front think mine has come out with anything?
Heres what I know, absolutely not attending before school program or taking buses even tho my littles take the "short bus" lol bc 8 yr old is autistic.
DD14 going to high school regardless she says so im not stopping her. I don't think she gets its not going to be what she envisions, sigh. * 8 yr old if I can get him in a 3/4 split with masks he will prob go..DS6 going into gr 1 I may keep home. I like masks its something at least and he's terrified of going to school. only thing is it might be the end of French immersion for him. he's the only one out ofd the four to be in French. it may be just too much

 

[Silvermist999]

Where are you guys getting board specific info? I front think mine has come out with anything?
Heres what I know, absolutely not attending before school program or taking buses even tho my littles take the "short bus" lol bc 8 yr old is autistic.
DD14 going to high school regardless she says so im not stopping her. I don't think she gets its not going to be what she envisions, sigh. * 8 yr old if I can get him in a 3/4 split with masks he will prob go..DS6 going into gr 1 I may keep home. I like masks its something at least and he's terrified of going to school. only thing is it might be the end of French immersion for him. he's the only one out ofd the four to be in French. it may be just too much

I haven’t heard of any board specific plans being released yet. If they have, I’d be interested to see what they have decided upon. Our board’s plans are to be submitted to the Ministry this week for approval. Their specific plans for reopening schools will be released to parents on August 10.

 

[FigmentSpark]

Our board site has the posting of the survey results (from last week). Everything has to trickle down.

For HS, I'm hoping for grade 9 and 11 on one day and 10 and 12 on the next, or something like that. I don't want to see half the class being taught in person one day and then another half the next. Just cut the classes in half and have the separation be by grades. It'll be easier on the kids and the teachers. They can at least walk home with their friends, even if they aren't in the same classes with them.

 

[Silvermist999]

I love that they are going to hire public health nurses for the schools but where are all these extra nurses going to come from. My understanding is the hospitals have a hard time keeping the numbers they need to keep things going.

I can't speak to public health nurses in particular, but finding nurses for full-time jobs should not be as difficult as it may seem. Often nurses are working part-time or casually in various settings. Plus I am sure there would be a decent supply of recent nursing school graduates who are seeking employment.

 

[Silvermist999]

Our board site has the posting of the survey results (from last week). Everything has to trickle down.

For HS, I'm hoping for grade 9 and 11 on one day and 10 and 12 on the next, or something like that. I don't want to see half the class being taught in person one day and then another half the next. Just cut the classes in half and have the separation be by grades. It'll be easier on the kids and the teachers. They can at least walk home with their friends, even if they aren't in the same classes with them.

I’m just curious, in your survey, did they ask whether you had multiple children attending the same school? I think I read somewhere that school boards were considering trying to have siblings in different grades attend classes on the same days, to try to reduce risk of exposure. I just can’t remember where I heard this from.

 

[hdrolfe]

Where are you guys getting board specific info? I front think mine has come out with anything?
Heres what I know, absolutely not attending before school program or taking buses even tho my littles take the "short bus" lol bc 8 yr old is autistic.
DD14 going to high school regardless she says so im not stopping her. I don't think she gets its not going to be what she envisions, sigh. * 8 yr old if I can get him in a 3/4 split with masks he will prob go..DS6 going into gr 1 I may keep home. I like masks its something at least and he's terrified of going to school. only thing is it might be the end of French immersion for him. he's the only one out ofd the four to be in French. it may be just too much

My school board has provided us with information a few weeks ago, they will be making updates and providing those in the next few days (from their facebook).

I believe masks are optional for the younger kids, and I am sure some will be wearing them, but obviously it's harder to keep the little ones from playing around with them I'm sure.

I don't recall seeing anything in the briefing about buses, my son walks so it won't be a problem for us. I imagine it will be difficult to manage if they have to distance on the buses, I mean, they are so tightly scheduled here they'd have to hire more drivers.

 

[Renarr]

For HS, I'm hoping for grade 9 and 11 on one day and 10 and 12 on the next, or something like that. I don't want to see half the class being taught in person one day and then another half the next. Just cut the classes in half and have the separation be by grades. It'll be easier on the kids and the teachers. They can at least walk home with their friends, even if they aren't in the same classes with them.

I don't think this works logistically for teachers. You'd have to make sure that teachers had balanced work assignments between grades 9/11 and grades 10/12, which would be logistically hard to do for some subject areas.

 

[OnceUponATime15]

Yeah, it will be interesting to see what September actually looks like from class to class. I’ve been teaching full day kindergarten since it began in our school 10 years ago. But I’m moving to a grade 2/3 split class this year.

I know the recommended average number of students in kindergarten with a teacher and ECE is 26, but that’s just an average across the board. I’m usually close to 30 students each year. I’ve heard of other schools with much higher numbers, but to have 40 kids in one kindergarten class just sounds nuts to me!

I know the class sizes for Kindergarten at my school this year is currently at about 28 students. I’m not certain at this point if they’ll even try to make those class sizes smaller.

It’s intriguing to me that many of the children who will have gone to childcare since it reopened and will move into jk or sk in September have until this past Monday been in cohorts of 10 including the 2 RECEs in the classroom for their safety. This past Monday the cohort increased to 15 children and 2 RECEs. (with a cohort that must be at least 7 days in length minimum and no movement between cohorts) Yet the children will be in classrooms where the 26 to 2 ratio in a best case is ok...

The Ministry of Ed has very different ratios for kindergarten as opposed to those for childcare in light of this pandemic. You’d think that cohorts would be more in line with what is being done in ELCCs at the moment, if for no other reason then to maintain the physical distancing requirements that are mandated by public health and limit exposure possibility.

It will be interesting to see what the DDSB and DCDSB will do moving forward here. I know what we have to do in the Regionally operates ELCCs and wonder if the boards will be held to the same stringent standards or if they are even plausible in a school setting with the number of children, staff and families involved.

 

[Donald - my hero]

Where are you guys getting board specific info? I front think mine has come out with anything?
Heres what I know, absolutely not attending before school program or taking buses even tho my littles take the "short bus" lol bc 8 yr old is autistic.
DD14 going to high school regardless she says so im not stopping her. I don't think she gets its not going to be what she envisions, sigh. * 8 yr old if I can get him in a 3/4 split with masks he will prob go..DS6 going into gr 1 I may keep home. I like masks its something at least and he's terrified of going to school. only thing is it might be the end of French immersion for him. he's the only one out ofd the four to be in French. it may be just too much

edited to remove my post

 

[FigmentSpark]

I’m just curious, in your survey, did they ask whether you had multiple children attending the same school? I think I read somewhere that school boards were considering trying to have siblings in different grades attend classes on the same days, to try to reduce risk of exposure. I just can’t remember where I heard this from.

They had 3 surveys. One was for Elementary kids, one for HS kids and one for special needs.

The HS questions were:



So, I guess the info is there, but whether they sorted for it when doing analysis is another thing entirely.

I don't think this works logistically for teachers. You'd have to make sure that teachers had balanced work assignments between grades 9/11 and grades 10/12, which would be logistically hard to do for some subject areas.

Well, you do that anyway. I was assuming the teachers would be available to teach on the online days, as well, not in a class every day. They'd still only have their 4 classes to teach.

 

[bababear_50]

It’s intriguing to me that many of the children who will have gone to childcare since it reopened and will move into jk or sk in September have until this past Monday been in cohorts of 10 including the 2 RECEs in the classroom for their safety. This past Monday the cohort increased to 15 children and 2 RECEs. (with a cohort that must be at least 7 days in length minimum and no movement between cohorts) Yet the children will be in classrooms where the 26 to 2 ratio in a best case is ok...

The Ministry of Ed has very different ratios for kindergarten as opposed to those for childcare in light of this pandemic. You’d think that cohorts would be more in line with what is being done in ELCCs at the moment, if for no other reason then to maintain the physical distancing requirements that are mandated by public health and limit exposure possibility.

It will be interesting to see what the DDSB and DCDSB will do moving forward here. I know what we have to do in the Regionally operates ELCCs and wonder if the boards will be held to the same stringent standards or if they are even plausible in a school setting with the number of children, staff and families involved.

Two different Gov organizations with two different rules & regulations & ratios


https://www.ontario.ca/page/ministry-education

https://www.mcss.gov.on.ca/index.aspxGiant Grey Book with excellent rules,regulations,ratios clearly defined and expected or no license for the operator.



I was shocked at the difference when I transferred between the two.

Mel

 

[Debbie]

Thanks. I’m now realizing that there will not be a 1-15 ratio for elementary. I think that was just speculation ahead of time. Upon being further questioned, Lecce said the 1 to 20 ratio in elementary schools across Ontario was already the lowest ratios in Canada, so that would be good enough?

Lecce was quoting the 'average' at 20. I don't believe there is a hard cap, so don't be surprised to see 22, 23 in a classroom. (I could be wrong on that, maybe someone could confirm/correct)

I don't recall seeing anything in the briefing about buses, my son walks so it won't be a problem for us. I imagine it will be difficult to manage if they have to distance on the buses, I mean, they are so tightly scheduled here they'd have to hire more drivers.

There was nothing about busing except "extra cleaning". The bus companies will be giving information on this in the next weeks, I'd imagine. I do know that at TVDSB, parents were expected to register their kids for busing for next year beginning earlier this month.

 

[FigmentSpark]

I found this from last week's board meeting (pre-provincial announcement)

 

[OnceUponATime15]

Two different Gov organizations with two different rules & regulations & ratios


https://www.ontario.ca/page/ministry-education

https://www.mcss.gov.on.ca/index.aspx

I was shocked at the difference when I transferred between the two.

Mel

The Minisrty of Education is responsible for Childcare (CCEYA). We were moved from the ministry of child and youth services MCYS in 2010.

 

[bababear_50]

Double post



Mel