Back to School during the pandemic ...a discussion thread

[bababear_50]

The Minisrty of Education is responsible for Childcare (CCEYA). We were moved from the ministry of child and youth services MCYS in 2010.

Good to know.

Mel

 

[quandrea]

I've heard this envisioned in one of two ways. Let's suppose a district has A days and B days.

(1) Some districts have half the class in person on A days and the other half the class doing independent work remotely. Then, on B days, the other half of the class comes in to learn in person and the first half does independent work remotely.

(2) What my district wants to try (without really any training so far on this) is to have half the class in person on A days, while the other half synchronously follows remotely. Then, on B days, the other half of the class comes in to learn in person while the first half synchronously follows remotely.

In the first scenario, you're only really getting half the learning in.

In the second scenario, you're getting more "days of instruction" in, but your instructional style is going to look a lot more like "live remote instruction" because you'll have to be giving access to your remote students. Meaning that some of the benefits of in-person instruction (students having less time on laptops, students working with manipulatives, etc.) could be lost unless carefully implemented, if at all.

EDITS for clarity.

This synchronous learning is what my daughter doesn’t want. She loves that the online learning moves at her own pace, on her own agenda. She is not interested in logging in at an appointed hour to watch what is going on in a classroom. She wants an online course where she sets the agenda. For instance, she is in summer school now. She blitzed a unit this afternoon, submitting assignments that are due late next week. Now she is ahead and can sit back the next few days, Slow down a bit and start preparing for the upcoming unit test. She directs the learning. We will probably withdraw her and homeschool through the Independent Learning Centre.

 

[Renarr]

Well, you do that anyway. I was assuming the teachers would be available to teach on the online days, as well, not in a class every day. They'd still only have their 4 classes to teach.

Not every area is planning to have synchronous remote instruction on the days where half the kids are in class.

And if you're having all the 9th graders in on one day, and you only teach 9th graders, then you don't have distancing in the classroom. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the initial premise of the 9/11 days and 10/12 days suggestion.

 

[Silvermist999]

They had 3 surveys. One was for Elementary kids, one for HS kids and one for special needs.

The HS questions were:
View attachment 514740
View attachment 514741

So, I guess the info is there, but whether they sorted for it when doing analysis is another thing entirely.




Well, you do that anyway. I was assuming the teachers would be available to teach on the online days, as well, not in a class every day. They'd still only have their 4 classes to teach.

Thanks for sharing. I think in all likelihood our survey will look very similar to this, I’ve got two kids in HS.

 

[bankr63]

Original post deleted at request of @Donald - my hero

But to be clear, that was a genuine laugh, not at you, but more at the fact that a great many people have misconceptions about what governments/administrations say will happen and what actually happens. DW is in education and I have spent more than half my career in health care. What governments and boards say to the public and what actually happens IRL are at best faint resemblances to each other, and at worst pure comedy (or tragedy?)

Until recently I was a provincial civil servant in management, and often had to support positions that were at best half-truths.

 

[Donald - my hero]

Teachers are the last ones to get information about what is going on, usually about a week after the ministry announces to the parents, they will get some garbled instruction on how the board expects them to implement the impossible. They are unionized; management does not interact with labour like that in most industries, including education.

I'm going to delete my post and I'd appreciate you deleting it as well. I was only providing what i thought might answer the question but obviously i was mistaken and i HATE sharing information that I can't back up

 

[Silvermist999]

Teachers are the last ones to get information about what is going on, usually about a week after the ministry announces to the parents, they will get some garbled instruction on how the board expects them to implement the impossible. They are unionized; management does not interact with labour like that in most industries, including education.

On our school board site, the timeline for when information will be released shows Ministry approval of board plans will be made August 4th. Teachers/staff will receive reopening plans on August 7th. And parents/students will receive this same info on August 10th. Staff training/planning will be held week of September 1st. Ideally, other school boards are just as transparent with those affected.

 

[Donald - my hero]

I posted in error. sorry!

 

[bankr63]

Lecce was quoting the 'average' at 20. I don't believe there is a hard cap, so don't be surprised to see 22, 23 in a classroom. (I could be wrong on that, maybe someone could confirm/correct)

My understanding (husband of teacher) is that the school is resourced with educational resources (teaching resources) based on the ratios and overall enrollment in the school. However, not all teaching resources are actually teaching. For instance, if a school has guidance counselor or student success resource they count in that mix, so classes are almost always over the government set average. The SSR is one example; I know there are several non-teaching teaching resources in her school who bring up the class average overall.
Generally her grade 7 class sits around 25-28 each year; the administration will try to split classes when they hit around 30. We expect that she will have that full cohort this year. She teaches "core" in a predominantly underprivileged area of the city. The parents of her students (a great many of whom are ESL, new English learners a/o recent Canadian arrivals) do not have the resources to keep their kids at home. These are some of the hardest working parents in the city as they try to forge a better life. Her classes are full on "snow days" when the immersion classes may have 2 or 3 students; we would expect similar attendance for COVID.
With roughly 25% of parents expected to keep their kids at home based on surveys (read the latest Leger national/provincial results last night) in wealthier areas I am sure this "keep them home" decision will greatly help keep class cohort sizes controlled but I don't think it will help with DW's specific situation.
And then there is keeping them all shoehorned into the tiny asbestos filled box with no A/C and very small windows. At 1m distancing, it might be possible to get them all in there if all her teaching resources are removed from the room. She has 20 plus years of accumulation; somehow I think our garage will be stacked to the ceiling with boxes very soon.

 

[bankr63]

On our school board site, the timeline for when information will be released shows Ministry approval of board plans will be made August 4th. Teachers/staff will receive reopening plans on August 7th. And parents/students will receive this same info on August 10th. Staff training/planning will be held week of September 1st. Ideally, other school boards are just as transparent with those affected.

Staff training/planning will be held the week of September 1st. Great, classes start September 3rd. Does that sound like enough time to anyone? Great article here from G&M from a Project Manager about what is wrong with this timeline. I am a PM as well and it is easy to see the disaster that awaits as the triple constraint is being totally ignored.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...hools-in-september-are-on-a-collision-course/

ETA: see my earlier post about the countries that have been successful with this had things WELL PLANNED, and WELL RESOURCED. Those who did not had much more unwanted outcomes.

 

[bababear_50]

bankr63
So much of what you posted is very similar in my school.....I could have written your post.

I was just wondering if they would consider utilizing the Library Learning Commons or is there anywhere else that her class could be relocated to in her school?

And yes get that garage ready,,that's what I did last week.

Mel

 

[wdwmom3]

My school board has provided us with information a few weeks ago, they will be making updates and providing those in the next few days (from their facebook).

I believe masks are optional for the younger kids, and I am sure some will be wearing them, but obviously it's harder to keep the little ones from playing around with them I'm sure.

I don't recall seeing anything in the briefing about buses, my son walks so it won't be a problem for us. I imagine it will be difficult to manage if they have to distance on the buses, I mean, they are so tightly scheduled here they'd have to hire more drivers.

for our school board masks are mandatory (I think for all kids) on buses. They will only be sitting one kid per bench unless they are siblings. We are just going to drive our son, a little safer, but also to help with the capacity.

 

[hdrolfe]

for our school board masks are mandatory (I think for all kids) on buses. They will only be sitting one kid per bench unless they are siblings. We are just going to drive our son, a little safer, but also to help with the capacity.

That makes sense. I know the city buses here you have to wear a mask. I am kind of glad he walks now, and also that I don't have to worry about daycare in addition to school.

 

[wdwmom3]

Lecce was quoting the 'average' at 20. I don't believe there is a hard cap, so don't be surprised to see 22, 23 in a classroom. (I could be wrong on that, maybe someone could confirm/correct)
There was nothing about busing except "extra cleaning". The bus companies will be giving information on this in the next weeks, I'd imagine. I do know that at TVDSB, parents were expected to register their kids for busing for next year beginning earlier this month.

our school board has already said masks are mandatory for all and only one child per bench except for siblings.

 

[wdwmom3]

That makes sense. I know the city buses here you have to wear a mask. I am kind of glad he walks now, and also that I don't have to worry about daycare in addition to school.

Agreed. We can drive our son so can avoid the bus (he’s normally bused) and we have no daycare. There is always someone home.

 

[bababear_50]

I believe the Ministry Of Education for Ontario has said there may be exceptions to the rules for masks on buses especially for students with certain medical or special needs. At least that's what I read in the report.

Mel

 

[damo]

I've heard this envisioned in one of two ways. Let's suppose a district has A days and B days.

(1) Some districts have half the class in person on A days and the other half the class doing independent work remotely. Then, on B days, the other half of the class comes in to learn in person and the first half does independent work remotely.

(2) What my district wants to try (without really any training so far on this) is to have half the class in person on A days, while the other half synchronously follows remotely. Then, on B days, the other half of the class comes in to learn in person while the first half synchronously follows remotely.

In the first scenario, you're only really getting half the learning in.

In the second scenario, you're getting more "days of instruction" in, but your instructional style is going to look a lot more like "live remote instruction" because you'll have to be giving access to your remote students. Meaning that some of the benefits of in-person instruction (students having less time on laptops, students working with manipulatives, etc.) could be lost unless carefully implemented, if at all.

EDITS for clarity.

Yes, the second scenario sounds good. As a retired high school math teacher, I think I would prefer that.

 

[wdwmom3]

I believe the Ministry Of Education for Ontario has said there may be exceptions to the rules for masks on buses especially for students with certain medical or special needs. At least that's what I read in the report.

Mel

I believe you are right about the exemptions. When I said for everyone I meant all grades. Whereas in class it’s only grade 4 and over.

We have started our back to school mask shopping. We figure our son will need around 10 to get him through the week and be able to change it.

 

[bababear_50]

I believe you are right about the exemptions. When I said for everyone I meant all grades. Whereas in class it’s only grade 4 and over.

We have started our back to school mask shopping. We figure our son will need around 10 to get him through the week and be able to change it.

Yeah two masks per day sounds good.

Yes my students are medical/special needs ,,however they are in mainstream classes and they will be exempt for the masks on the bus & in the classroom.


Mel

 

[Silvermist999]

Staff training/planning will be held the week of September 1st. Great, classes start September 3rd. Does that sound like enough time to anyone? Great article here from G&M from a Project Manager about what is wrong with this timeline. I am a PM as well and it is easy to see the disaster that awaits as the triple constraint is being totally ignored.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...hools-in-september-are-on-a-collision-course/

ETA: see my earlier post about the countries that have been successful with this had things WELL PLANNED, and WELL RESOURCED. Those who did not had much more unwanted outcomes.

From what I understand, the week of September 1st is designated for
PD days, so I guess teachers and staff would potentially get up to one full week of necessary training.

First day of school for students will be on September 8th, after the Labour Day weekend. I would be surprised to hear any schools would be starting before then.