Anyone else think enough is enough... ?

[wenrob]

BTW, revised IHME estimates project <100 Covid deaths/day nationally by May 23, 0 by June 19:



What we're doing is working. Let's not go wobbly now.

This!

OP you talk about being fighters but we’re not quitters either.

 

[LSUmiss]

Age is a huge factor. Which was not addressed. I did read an article that black men were being disproportionately affected, but it didn’t seem to indicate that a 40 year old dad was at high risk.

I wish they would release those stats. Like how many ppl with hypertension under 60 have actually died.

 

[godisney14]

The point of my post was more that the lag in safety net is what is making people panic and want to go back to work, not that they should.

Maybe the government should get on this ASAP and fix it then. A much more reasonable thing to expect than people risking others’ lives by going back to their pre-COV days prematurely.

 

[Kay7979]

The two main points the OP
is missing is 1) this is not a flu, it’s a virulent virus we still know little about. 2) Stay home if you’re sick doesn’t work with this virus because a huge number of people are spreading the virus without knowing they have it.

 

[tzolkin]

My whole thing is... For goodness sake... we are Americans... we don't run and hide... and cower in the corner wringing our hands together... We fight... we are a nation of people willing to fight to protect each other.... we pull together, dig in, stand together and prove that we can do anything... how can we let the the this flu beat us all down... take everything we work for, the ability to provide for our families away... the right to go to church...spend time with our loved ones... and just stand there and watch it all disappear...
...
We don't negotiate with terrorist... why are we negotiating with a virus?.... and letting a virus send us scurrying and into hiding... when we can still look for a vaccine, and other therapy's and help each other without destroying our economy...

I just don't see this as "running and hiding". I see it as a logical way of minimizing loss of life.

Here's an example: If there were bombs hidden all throughout downtown which would make more sense? 1. Everyone just defiantly going about their business and blowing up themselves and others. Or 2. everyone staying inside while bomb squads went through the city to strategically remove all the bombs.

I would not see the citizens in scenario 2 as "cowering in fear", but rather as behaving rationally. And I certainly wouldn't see those in scenario 1 as "fighters"; I would think they were idiots for unnecessarily getting themselves and others killed.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

I wasn't able to read the entire post. Can someone summarize?

Death v money!

 

[donaldbuzz&minnie]

I really do understand your frustration. The reality, though, is that we are helpless in a way that we are not used to being helpless. The virus is in control until a vaccine can be developed, and that's going to take awhile. Until then our only 2 choices are to take the steps we need to take to avoid contracting the virus as much as we can, or ignore public health guidelines and accept the likelihood that most of us will get sick and at least a million of us will die.

Hospitals are already overwhelmed at this level. If we don't flatten the curve, there is going to be a limit to how much we can depend on the health care system to help us at all. If we decide to battle this virus by moving back into the world without useful protection, just realize that you and almost everyone you know is going to get sick, and it is statistically likely that you or several people you love will die. We may be headed for a economic depression no matter what we do at this point. There is no reason to expect that "going back to normal" and taking our chances will prevent that.

It's hard to accept that there are no good answers. There is no magic bullet that is going to save us from a long and devastating impact to our lives - emotionally and economically. Bravery at this point is going to look less like a quick battle that we can fight and get it over with, and more like having the patience and determination to face reality and endure the next 12-18 months and beyond.

 

[fatmanatee]

I think enough is enough for this virus:

https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1741938/

This is incredible.

 

[NotUrsula]

How do you know those ppl are highly unlikely to die? Here 70% of deaths have been African-American & most socioeconomically disadvantaged. I agree the lag in safety net is a problem.

And there is a whole extra issue in that: the press told us all about certain age groups and certain political/religious affiliations that didn't believe that Covid-19 was a threat to them, but what they have not covered much is the fact that from early-on, fallacies flew around the African-American community that minimized the threat to them. CNN ran a commentary about it yesterday: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/opinions/african-americans-covid-19-risk-jones/index.html

When you couple rumors like that with a high likelihood of economic insecurity, the result is doubly catastrophic for any affected community. Many of those who believed they were immune felt even more justified in ignoring the warnings because they needed the income, and if they were immune then they could not bring it home, right? Unfortunately, wrong.

The key to getting us all out there and working again is to get the medical establishment's needs met so that they have sufficient capacity to take care of the seriously ill at a decent standard. The longer that incompetence, and lies about progress are allowed to proliferate, the longer that is going to take.

 

[Lumpy1106]

OK, I'm coming to the defense of the OP. TO the TLDR crowd, SHAME ON YOU! It was all of 5 paragraphs, not a diatribe. She brings up good points, points that should be listened to. Yes, the prudent thing to do is stay at home, for now - but did you read her post? She brings up some great, common sense solutions that could get hairdressers and barbers back to work. That's just one part of the work force - we'll need LOTS of these kinds of solutions if we are ever to return to normal.

One of my favorite movies is "The Big Short" and I am stunned by the lessons from that movie, based on real events, that are being completely ignored now. From that movie, "If we're right, people lose homes. People lose jobs. People lose retirement savings, people lose pensions. You know what I hate about ###### banking? It reduces people to numbers. Here's a number - every 1% unemployment goes up, 40,000 people die, did you know that?" Do you really think this situation is ANY different???

The time may not be now, but it is coming, and, SHE IS RIGHT, the sooner the better, and we're going to need to be OK with that. I'm OK with social distancing, what I am not OK with is social SHAMING. Just when is enough going to be enough for you, the social shamers? What yardstick will you use?

 

[shelemm]

Nothing went up in a poof. It is planned ignorance, let's ignore the science, let's claim the federal stockpile is not for the states to use, let's just make things up out of thin air. If you really cared maybe you would be existentially worried about ER in NYC right now who are desperate for equipment, supplies, and personnel. But no mention of them. Meanwhile, you are looking to actually extend the burden of the health care system.

 

[kimblebee]

All this flag waving is getting old, and has been for quite some time.

 

[choirfarm]

I wish they would release those stats. Like how many ppl with hypertension under 60 have actually died.

Here are the Louisiana stats. Scroll down just a little to see the underlying conditions. You can click on the chart to see the breakdown by age.
http://ldh.la.gov/coronavirus/

 

[Wendy31]

My whole thing is... For goodness sake... we are Americans... we don't run and hide... and cower in the corner wringing our hands together... We fight... we are a nation of people willing to fight to protect each other.... we pull together, dig in, stand together and prove that we can do anything... how can we let the the this flu beat us all down... take everything we work for, the ability to provide for our families away... the right to go to church...spend time with our loved ones... and just stand there and watch it all disappear...
We can still work and provide for our families... while it may look different...we are so good at getting the problems solved...
We are All American... we fought the British, with a rag tag army for our freedom, Women went to work during the World Wars, we pulled together.... we fought back against those who came for us on 911, hunted them down and dealt with them... We make it happen...
We don't negotiate with terrorist... why are we negotiating with a virus?.... and letting a virus send us scurrying and into hiding... when we can still look for a vaccine, and other therapy's and help each other without destroying our economy... in order to fight we need a strong economy...

So when do we draw the line and say enough is enough...?

Please don't make this political... there is enough of that on TV daily... please no flames either... Just my own personal opinion...
Sending pixie dust and love to everyone...

Well, we are fighting. No one ever said that shutdowns & & cancellations & quarantines would be easy. This IS our fight. This IS how we fight to protect each other.

You say you have family members & friends who are losing their small businesses. I have family members who are heath care workers, fire fighters, & police officers. My husband is an essential employee & first responder at a power plant. If we suddenly decide that “enough is enough” & all just go about our business, then their lives are put more at risk - their LIVES, not their JOBS.

Shutdowns, quarantines, & curfews are not new. I think that, during the Spanish Flu of 1918, many of these same things were happening.

During WW2, American people were asked to sacrifice & ration.

There just wasn’t as much defiance back then. People were more willing to do what was needed for the greater good.

If everyone always did the right thing, then, yes, maybe we could ease up a bit. But people don’t & won’t.

You can’t just ask people to stay home if they’re sick & assume they will. They won’t. Because sick people don‘t stay home, we have to have lockdowns. Because people don’t listen to warnings & either don’t understand that they could be asymptotic or just don’t care, we have to have lockdowns.

I’m sorry there are people losing their businesses & jobs. I hate that domestic violence has increased. I worry about our economy. I worry about people in not very good situations. I worry about my husband getting the virus. I worry about my friend who is pregnant & due any day. I worry about my parents & my mother-in-law.

None of this is easy.

EDITED TO ADD - I am an American, & I’m very grateful for our liberties. I’m proud of the things we’re doing as a country to overcome the virus. We ARE fighting. I know of a distillery that is converting their operations to making hand sanitizer. Companies are making face masks & ventilators. Doctors are coming up w/ innovative ways to increase the workload of ventilators. A local school in our town has been converted to a research facility. Teachers are coming up w/ new ways to educate children via online methods. Communities are feeding families. People are helping one another.

I’m still proud to be an American. And, if that’s flag-waving, I’m not sorry.

 

[Christine]

Here are the Louisiana stats. Scroll down just a little to see the underlying conditions. You can click on the chart to see the breakdown by age.
http://ldh.la.gov/coronavirus/

Wow, that's really eye opening.

 

[LSUmiss]

Here are the Louisiana stats. Scroll down just a little to see the underlying conditions. You can click on the chart to see the breakdown by age.
http://ldh.la.gov/coronavirus/

Didn’t know. Thanks!

 

[RamblingMad]

It’s a virus. It has to either run its course or we need a vaccine. Until then nothing is returning to normal.

This isn’t a war. You invest and prepare for pandemics. If you don’t, you end up where we are today. Bill Gates warned us. But no one seemed to listen.

Deal with it.

 

[LSUmiss]

Here are the Louisiana stats. Scroll down just a little to see the underlying conditions. You can click on the chart to see the breakdown by age.
http://ldh.la.gov/coronavirus/

What part of the chart did you click on? I can’t get age to come up.

 

[shelemm]

Well, we are fighting. No one ever said that shutdowns & & cancellations & quarantines would be easy. This IS our fight. This IS how we fight to protect each other.

You say you have family members & friends who are losing their small businesses. I have family members who are heath care workers, fire fighters, & police officers. My husband is an essential employee & first responder at a power plant. If we suddenly decide that “enough is enough” & all just go about our business, then their lives are put more at risk - their LIVES, not their JOBS.

Shutdowns, quarantines, & curfews are not new. I think that, during the Spanish Flu of 1918, many of these same things were happening.

During WW2, American people were asked to sacrifice & ration.

There just wasn’t as much defiance back then. People were more willing to do what was needed for the greater good.

If everyone always did the right thing, then, yes, maybe we could ease up a bit. But people don’t & won’t.

You can’t just ask people to stay home if they’re sick & assume they will. They won’t. Because sick people don‘t stay home, we have to have lockdowns. Because people don’t listen to warnings & either don’t understand that they could be asymptotic or just don’t care, we have to have lockdowns.

I’m sorry there are people losing their businesses & jobs. I hate that domestic violence has increased. I worry about our economy. I worry about people in not very good situations. I worry about my husband getting the virus. I worry about my friend who is pregnant & due any day. I worry about my parents & my mother-in-law.

None of this is easy.

We don't do self-sacrifice well. So much easier to sacrifice others.

 

[cabanafrau]

If one chooses to take the economical viewpoint of risk assessment in determining the way to strategically minimize economic damage being the number one priority, don't forget to include in the calculation the impact of X-thousands+ consumers suddenly being removed from the marketplace permanently. Many large companies today are desperately scrambling to keep every customer coming back under normal conditions before this outbreak. The bottom line of a small mom and pop concern like a hair salon would probably show the effect of the loss of fewer than 10 regular customers. Imagine the difficulty of regaining trust and confidence of a regular customer base again if even one case were rumored to be affiliated with a salon that chose to roll the dice and operate with what they considered adequate protections in the middle of this nightmare?