Anyone else think enough is enough... ?

[Colleen27]

I'm sure the poor are more impacted than the rich. The highway volume data I saw showed a larger volume decline on freeways going to wealthy cities. The poor have less ability to work from home and are getting sick at higher rates.

And more of the poor have shifted from non-essential to essential jobs. After all the hoopla surrounding the stimulus package, that unemployment supplement isn't rolled out yet so working at Kroger is better than $200/week of unemployment. Our local hospital is hiring cleaning staff at $12/hour and are getting more applications than they can handle.

It's unfortunate that we can't get true numbers. Because if we can see how much of population has already had it and recovered, then the business closings, etc. may have different projections. Perhaps can open sooner.

Not just numbers of deaths, but of everyone who has had Covid. The problem from the beginning was lack of tests, but oh well now.
I would imagine the sheer amount of people who had Covid by now and just were turned down for testing or never even bothered has got to be astronomical, just based on the data out there now from those were tested.

It isn't something to shrug at and say, "oh well", though. We should be *outraged* at this because testing is the ONLY way we can get back to normal before a vaccine. The. Only. Way. And we (our leaders) have chosen not to dedicate resources to making that happen.

This is not a solution.... So if you take 1 hair dresser, seeing 1 person every 90 mins for about 14 hours (6:30am-9:00pm), thats roughly 9 people that hair dresser sees. If the hair dresser is asymptomatic then affects the customers and those 9 people each have the national average of 3.14 persons in the household, that one day of work just infected 28 people.

And see, this is where our lack of data is killing our economy. If there was a way for that hairdresser to know that she had COVID19 in the past, she could go back to work because she'd be immune. There would still be need to keep space between customers and take precautions by cleaning between them, but there would be a slow start on getting back to normal. But without knowing, we don't know who can and cannot begin taking those small steps safely... so we all have to follow isolation measures as though we've never been exposed and are actively infected.

 

[DopeyDame]

I think today we have to assume everyone is sick. I won't accept a date, because it is literally impossible for anyone to come up with one. We simply have to take this day to day and hope the curve flattens, the cases go down, the hospitals keep up and the deaths stop.

Sitting around speculating about when everything should "open back up" isn't going to help. No one knows. We all want it to! We all want the same thing, but some of us choose to go day to day and be realistic. Expect the worst, hope for the best.

I think what I find most frustrating is that I don't have a good understanding of what scenarios will allow things to open up. I don't think it can just be a reduction in deaths, because if the reduction is caused by all the restrictions, then opening it up will cause them to rise again a few weeks later.
I would *love* to see a public health official say something like:
these measures are necessary until [all 300-some million Americans can be tested] [all who have any symptoms can be tested] [an antibody test is developed] [no new cases are identified for X days in a row] [100 million ventilators have been produced]
or SOMETHING.
What are we looking for? What is the end game? Without knowing the goal it's impossible to make sure we're heading in the right direction.

 

[Farro]

It isn't something to shrug at and say, "oh well", though. We should be *outraged* at this because testing is the ONLY way we can get back to normal before a vaccine. The. Only. Way. And we (our leaders) have chosen not to dedicate resources to making that happen.

I don't discuss politics on this forum. So please don't assume what I'm thinking or if I'm outraged enough.

 

[choirfarm]

It isn't something to shrug at and say, "oh well", though. We should be *outraged* at this because testing is the ONLY way we can get back to normal before a vaccine. The. Only. Way. And we (our leaders) have chosen not to dedicate resources to making that happen.



And see, this is where our lack of data is killing our economy. If there was a way for that hairdresser to know that she had COVID19 in the past, she could go back to work because she'd be immune. There would still be need to keep space between customers and take precautions by cleaning between them, but there would be a slow start on getting back to normal. But without knowing, we don't know who can and cannot begin taking those small steps safely... so we all have to follow isolation measures as though we've never been exposed and are actively infected.

I completely agree with you. Hence my end game post. I don't see one without the testing. Our county has only tested 380 out of the over 123,000 people. How can we have a plan? How can we get people back to work? That is why I have said, we can only get back to work when we know who is immune, have a vaccine, etc. All I can do is hunker down, but I feel like we are wasting that sacrifice. Most of the hospitals in our state are not overrun. They are waiting for the tsunami. I don't understand why we couldn't be testing people. But in our state, you almost have to be in the hospital to get tested.

 

[SaintsManiac]

I think what I find most frustrating is that I don't have a good understanding of what scenarios will allow things to open up. I don't think it can just be a reduction in deaths, because if the reduction is caused by all the restrictions, then opening it up will cause them to rise again a few weeks later.
I would *love* to see a public health official say something like:
these measures are necessary until [all 300-some million Americans can be tested] [all who have any symptoms can be tested] [an antibody test is developed] [no new cases are identified for X days in a row] [100 million ventilators have been produced]
or SOMETHING.
What are we looking for? What is the end game? Without knowing the goal it's impossible to make sure we're heading in the right direction.

I get what you're saying but it is a "novel" virus. They are learning new things about it every day.

I am just trying to do my part and have faith in the science to get us through it. It's hard, because I am a very impatient person. I think many people are and we want instant gratification.

 

[trivan]

OK, but you are assuming that the hairdresser is sick. Now, that's a "safe" assumption today, but there has to come a point where everyone is OK with assuming everyone is well. Is that day May 1? Probably not. How about June 1? Based on the numbers as they are looking today I'd be OK with that, but there are too many people out there right now who would never accept any date. That's not the problem today, but it will be.

Yes, and I will continue to assume everyone is sick until the numbers come down. Even if the hairdresser isn't infected and is tested, how will one know if she doesn't get infected tomorrow by a client, will he/she be tested everyday, not practical at this point.

I'm in NJ so 2nd in the nation in terms of cases and deaths. Hospitals don't have rooms if you get sick and i don't want my kids to collect on my life insurance. Let the data and medical science drive the date. Staying home, drives that "number" down sooner, but as the experts say don't start up too soon or it will bounce back. The data around the world shows those which took a hard stance is coming out of it sooner than those who have not.

 

[sam_gordon]

as the experts say don't start up too soon or it will bounce back.

I'm hoping we don't start up too late also. I like PP point. What is our goal? 0 deaths? 0 new cases? Are those realistic?

 

[Lumpy1106]

I completely agree with you. Hence my end game post. I don't see one without the testing. Our county has only tested 380 out of the over 123,000 people. How can we have a plan? How can we get people back to work? That is why I have said, we can only get back to work when we know who is immune, have a vaccine, etc. All I can do is hunker down, but I feel like we are wasting that sacrifice. Most of the hospitals in our state are not overrun. They are waiting for the tsunami. I don't understand why we couldn't be testing people. But in our state, you almost have to be in the hospital to get tested.

But we do have an end date; when the hospitals have enough capacity. The point of the restrictions is not to keep people from getting sick (it is, but it isn't) it's so, as you have stated here, the hospitals do not get overwhelmed. Once we reach a point where the hospitals have a comfortable capacity to handle new sick people, then anyone that is not in a high-risk category should be able to venture out without treating everyone they see like they have the plague.

 

[Searc]

I love our country, but I am also not willing to overlook our shortcomings. I am a privileged white woman. Over the past year I have had the opportunity to learn from colored women of faith, to try to understand their perspective. I cannot completely understand because I do not live it, but I am also not willing to say, "Yah! Yah American. We are perfect!" Yes, I love our country, but I would like to make it better. That doesn't make me unAmerican.

Thank you.

 

[Sweetpancake]

First let me say, I completely understand that this is serious.... and in no way am trying to minimize this... and I agree that we need to use all pre-cautions, and stay home if we are sick, and take care of the elderly and people with compromise immune systems... which is something that I would hope that people are doing daily... like washing their hands, constantly... with or without the flu, we will need to change how we go about our daily lives... So Respectfully...

People need to go back to work.... so that they can take care of their families, and kids... put food on the table, pay the light bill, the mortgage, the car and insurance, and cover the basic's... I know most people are getting to the point that they would rather take their chances than loose everything that they have worked for... and the ability to provide

The government and courts systems need to be in active, they are in place to protect us as well... My neighbors cousin, future ex-husband, just kicked in her door, 6 hours after they let him out of jail for Domestic Violence, they only could arrest him for kicking in the door, and being drunk and resisting arrest... the order for protection is sitting on a Judges desk waiting for him to sign it, since mid Feb... until them the order is not valid... so more than likely he will be out in 48 to 72 hours... the poor police officers really can't do anything for her, until the order for protection is sign off on, once its signed off if he violates it then they can keep him in jail... so she is a nurse so she is needed, so she is going to have to go into hiding... couch serf with friends or stay at the hospital... so who is protecting her?... while she is taking care of sick people?

My friends sister in law has a hair salon... and she is either going to go against the order and open back up... or she will loose everything... she has made plans to open back up, On May 1st... whether the order is lifted or not.... she spent money to have a salon deep cleaned, and her DH put up partitions and they will be working 14 feet apart, staggered appointments, and is changing her hours, 6:30 am to 9:00 pm and only allowing 2 stylist to work at a time, no one waiting in the sitting area, by appointment only... mask and gloves for the stylist and for the clients... She has 6 employees... 3 of them are single mothers...the stimulus and unemployment will not make it in time to help them... they must work, need to work to provide for their kids... She worried that people would not want to come back... they are completely booked for the first 2 weeks in May... even though she really did not have it, they gave 100 dollar gift card to wal-mart to their employee's to help them out...

Our good friend is more than like going to loose her cute little boutique that she built from nothing... 14 years of work gone... poof... Everything that she purchased for Spring, Mother's Day, and early Summer is sitting in the back room of her boutique, and she is hoping that she will be able to just get what she paid for it...all of it is paid for, and she can not return it... in the next 3 or 4 weeks she has to pay for late summer and early fall, and some seasonal and holiday items... and if she cancels the order she will not have any enough merchandise going moving into the the second half of the year... plus she worry's if people will have any money to spend...

My whole thing is... For goodness sake... we are Americans... we don't run and hide... and cower in the corner wringing our hands together... We fight... we are a nation of people willing to fight to protect each other.... we pull together, dig in, stand together and prove that we can do anything... how can we let the the this flu beat us all down... take everything we work for, the ability to provide for our families away... the right to go to church...spend time with our loved ones... and just stand there and watch it all disappear...
We can still work and provide for our families... while it may look different...we are so good at getting the problems solved...
We are All American... we fought the British, with a rag tag army for our freedom, Women went to work during the World Wars, we pulled together.... we fought back against those who came for us on 911, hunted them down and dealt with them... We make it happen...
We don't negotiate with terrorist... why are we negotiating with a virus?.... and letting a virus send us scurrying and into hiding... when we can still look for a vaccine, and other therapy's and help each other without destroying our economy... in order to fight we need a strong economy...

So when do we draw the line and say enough is enough...?

Please don't make this political... there is enough of that on TV daily... please no flames either... Just my own personal opinion...

Sending pixie dust and love to everyone...

So in short are you saying if we just go out there and live our lives, we can beat the virus? Ok, well good luck with that. Let me know how it goes.

 

[Farro]

I love our country, but I am also not willing to overlook our shortcomings. I am a privileged white woman. Over the past year I have had the opportunity to learn from colored women of faith, to try to understand their perspective. I cannot completely understand because I do not live it, but I am also not willing to say, "Yah! Yah American. We are perfect!" Yes, I love our country, but I would like to make it better. That doesn't make me unAmerican.

I hate myself right now, but I can't.

Just don't use the term "colored" anymore please.

 

[choirfarm]

But we do have an end date; when the hospitals have enough capacity. The point of the restrictions is not to keep people from getting sick (it is, but it isn't) it's so, as you have stated here, the hospitals do not get overwhelmed. Once we reach a point where the hospitals have a comfortable capacity to handle new sick people, then anyone that is not in a high-risk category should be able to venture out without treating everyone they see like they have the plague.

Yeah, I personally will not be comfortable with that. I do not want me or my husband or my children on a vent. So yeah, maybe the country starts to open up, but I will not until there is a vaccine or better treatment or a test for immunity.

 

[choirfarm]

I hate myself right now, but I can't.

Just don't use the term "colored" anymore please.

Well, I was meaning to put black, Asian, Hispanic, etc. Sorry. See, I am learning. I'll change it, but wasn't sure what wording I should use. Multicultural maybe?

 

[BuckeyeBama]

So when do we draw the line and say enough is enough...?

When it is safe to do so, and we are not there yet. Go back too soon and we are right back here again in a month, except worse.

 

[Farro]

Well, I was meaning to put black, Asian, Hispanic, etc. Sorry. See, I am learning. I'll change it, but wasn't sure what wording I should use. Multicultural maybe?

That would work, people of color is deemed acceptable or just listing the races you are speaking of works. Colored has a history to it that is offensive, which I won't go into here.

 

[okeydokey]

We haven't even reached the peak yet. Now is not the time to "go back to normal".

 

[shelemm]

No DisBoards poster is "dangerous".

Ideas can be dangerous. As an immediate example, I haven't heard much outcry from the "Economy!" folks about the shortages. it is deemphasized in all those posts. I might have some more care about your argument if I thought you were writing your congressperson or complaining about the bungling of the federal response or...... if you watched the CNN special about the ER in NYC.

For many of us, this "Economy!" talk seems shallow. It's not that we don't agree with you, it's that YOU are not doing anything to help and your talk is probably hurting what needs attention RIGHT NOW. The federal response to NYC is to deny, deny, deny that they even have a problem. Yes, that IS dangerous. So I am asking you not to contribute to that. Make phone calls and take action. Nothing else matters for TODAY. Things are not opening up today, so today you can make those calls and insist that NYC needs immediate help.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Yeah, I personally will not be comfortable with that. I do not want me or my husband or my children on a vent. So yeah, maybe the country starts to open up, but I will not until there is a vaccine or better treatment or a test for immunity.

A vaccine is a year off, best case scenario - that's the process. Test for immunity? How would you get immunity? The country, any country, cannot be shut down for a year - it just can't. A lot of people have no savings and cannot be unemployed for a month, let alone a year. I understand your concerns and you are welcome to them, but I promise you, give this until May 1 and revisit this thread. The discussion is going to be a whole lot different, especially if we are still shut down.

 

[choirfarm]

A vaccine is a year off, best case scenario - that's the process. Test for immunity? How would you get immunity? The country, any country, cannot be shut down for a year - it just can't. A lot of people have no savings and cannot be unemployed for a month, let alone a year. I understand your concerns and you are welcome to them, but I promise you, give this until May 1 and revisit this thread. The discussion is going to be a whole lot different, especially if we are still shut down.

I understand. Just saying what I am comfortable with. The country will do what it wants. I will keep myself and my loved ones safe.

 

[CdnCarrie]

There are a lot of people in this country with diabetes.

That we agree on..

It's diabetes 1 that is at high risk from Covid-19 not diabetes 2.

ETA - My mistake - it's insulin dependent not diabetics that are high risk. Not all diabetics.
.