Anyone else think enough is enough... ?

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There really isn’t type one or two anymore. That ended a few years ago. It’s all treated as type one now. Which is IDDM. Insulin dependent. This is because type 2 can be as bad as type one. Sadly a lot of diabetes is self induced.
 
I'm hoping we don't start up too late also. I like PP point. What is our goal? 0 deaths? 0 new cases? Are those realistic?

Personally I don't think that is realistic. As many have mentioned, there is no play book. The first affected countries are coming out of it, they are relaxing some of the same measures we are taking. Only time will tell. My new normal is when/if one get sick, there will be a hospital bed for them and caretakers available to provide the care deserved.
 
I completely agree with you. Hence my end game post. I don't see one without the testing. Our county has only tested 380 out of the over 123,000 people. How can we have a plan? How can we get people back to work? That is why I have said, we can only get back to work when we know who is immune, have a vaccine, etc. All I can do is hunker down, but I feel like we are wasting that sacrifice. Most of the hospitals in our state are not overrun. They are waiting for the tsunami. I don't understand why we couldn't be testing people. But in our state, you almost have to be in the hospital to get tested.

And we're not even tracking those that we *know* have tested positive and recovered, even though they're a potential resource that could help us weather the storm.

Yes, and I will continue to assume everyone is sick until the numbers come down. Even if the hairdresser isn't infected and is tested, how will one know if she doesn't get infected tomorrow by a client, will he/she be tested everyday, not practical at this point.

There are several antibody tests available now that test not for current infection but rather for immunity with high accuracy. People who have a positive immunity test could safely get back to work, take essential positions temporarily, serve as caregivers or community volunteers, etc. America has a strong volunteer culture and I'm sure many people would step in to essential roles in one way or another if they knew they were immune and could do so safely. But we're not using those tests now except in very limited applications, and we don't appear to be aiming for the kind of widespread testing roll out that Germany is using as preparation for a slow reopening of parts of the economy. We're still in a "wait and see" posture.

But we do have an end date; when the hospitals have enough capacity. The point of the restrictions is not to keep people from getting sick (it is, but it isn't) it's so, as you have stated here, the hospitals do not get overwhelmed. Once we reach a point where the hospitals have a comfortable capacity to handle new sick people, then anyone that is not in a high-risk category should be able to venture out without treating everyone they see like they have the plague.

If that's the case, why the lockdowns in places with almost no cases where hospitals are still way below capacity? Why only pursuing expansion of hospital capacity in cities that are already hard hit?

We are absolutely not taking an approach of allowing spread within the limits of our medical system, because we're not willing to tolerate the number of deaths this virus causes even under ideal circumstances (between 1 and 2 million, assuming a fatality rate of 1/2 to 1%). We're going at this with a typically American "zero tolerance" mindset... prevent every death we can, at any cost, with no end game in sight.

Ideas can be dangerous. As an immediate example, I haven't heard much outcry from the "Economy!" folks about the shortages. it is deemphasized in all those posts. I might have some more care about your argument if I thought you were writing your congressperson or complaining about the bungling of the federal response or...... if you watched the CNN special about the ER in NYC.

Well, let me set your mind to rest... I'm doing those things too. I'm a native Detroiter and they've got a higher death rate than NYC right now, even though the medical system is not yet fully overwhelmed, so this isn't some abstract issue that I'm content just to rant online about. But really, there's no discussion to be had online about shortages - I'm sure we're all 100% in agreement that PPE needs to be top priority, and that wouldn't make a very interesting thread. ;)

My congressman was probably sick of hearing from me long before this, because I'm pretty active politically in general, but he's been unusually responsive on this issue. Actually, he just did a phone town hall this afternoon that I was listening to as I'm sitting here scrolling. Unfortunately, he's a political creature and isn't responding directly to questions about testing, supply distribution, etc. but he is at least making it known that he's hearing the concerns and passing along the comments he's receiving to his leadership.

I don't, however, watch television news - no judgment of those who do, I just don't retain or process video content as well as I do the written word, and I'm trying to limit the amount of COVID19 news my anxious 11yo is exposed to - so I didn't catch the special about NY.
 

There really isn’t type one or two anymore. That ended a few years ago. It’s all treated as type one now. Which is IDDM. Insulin dependent. This is because type 2 can be as bad as type one. Sadly a lot of diabetes is self induced.

According to...? As someone without diabetes and without a medical degree, I don't keep up on the news. I understood there to be a difference and type 2 could be treated just with diet. I had a greatx2 aunt with type 1, but that was literally a hundred years ago. She died at 11. Type 1 diabetics do not produce insulin and type 2 diabetics don't react to the insulin they produce, ... again, as far as I understand.
 
I didn’t decide when American history started. I said since 1776. When we became an independent free Republic. My point was since as a Nation.
as for Doctors nurses etc... I’m a firefighter medic. I also spent 8 years in the military. I deal with this covid 19 every duty day. And it doesn’t change how I feel. We need to get this nation open for business soon. More will die from unemployment and financial ruin than Any virus. I’m not afraid of it. Period.
Since forming as a Nation, for the entire 230 years, we have not been a Free Market. There is a fine, fine line between a fairy tale and a lie.
 
I will say what Clarance Thomas said.... there is no free(er) nation on earth for anyone. White black or anything in between than the United States. He said that many times. I agree. There is no where else that has the opportunity and freedom.
I’m not getting lured down the road of off topic debate... so with that. I’m done.
Come this summer. Maybe I’ll see you at WDW. I’ll be there as soon as I can.
I do wish you peace.


How is the US free(er) than any other industrialized country?
I think people in Australia, Canada, UK, Finland, etc are free.
How do you have more opportunity and freedom?

Reminds me of this tv clip.

ETA:I think it's scary that a first responder is campaigning to open society up again.
 
I'm hoping we don't start up too late also. I like PP point. What is our goal? 0 deaths? 0 new cases? Are those realistic?

The goal is to keep the rate of infection down to the point where there are enough beds in hospitals for the sick. That's what "flattening the curve" is all about.
 
It's diabetes 1 that is at high risk from Covid-19 not diabetes 2.
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According to...? As someone without diabetes and without a medical degree, I don't keep up on the news. I understood there to be a difference and type 2 could be treated just with diet. I had a greatx2 aunt with type 1, but that was literally a hundred years ago. She died at 11. Type 1 diabetics do not produce insulin and type 2 diabetics don't react to the insulin they produce, ... again, as far as I understand.
According to Ohio board of health and National health institutes. . It’s treated as same now. In the field also in EMS. Both can be equally bad. Both can have or not have the need for insulin. Some can be treated with diet. Some can’t. It’s just not simple as type 1. Type 2. Used to be type one was juvenile. Type 2 was older. And no need for insulin. That’s not the case anymore. Weight. Has ALOT to do with it.
 
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The goal is to keep the rate of infection down to the point where there are enough beds in hospitals for the sick. That's what "flattening the curve" is all about.
A number of people have mentioned this, I'm just quoting you because you're on the last page. What qualifies as "enough" beds and how do you (we) know if we get to that point?

Is it sort of like saying "You shouldn't have kids until you can afford them."?

As far as why people have stopped talking about the economy? I can't speak for others, but I got tired of getting beaten down with "you want grandma to die!" and "how can you not think of NY?" and "it will be fine, don't worry about it" and "stop thinking about yourself!".
 
According to Ohio board of health and National health institutes. . It’s treated as same now. In the field also in EMS. Both can be equally bad. Both can have or not have the news for insulin. Some can be treated with diet. Some can’t. It’s just not simple as type 1. Type 2. Used to be type one was juvenile. Type 2 was older. And no need for insulin. That’s not the case anymore. Weight. Has ALOT to do with it.

Sorry. It's diabetes that is insulin dependent. I'm diabetes 2 (pills) and I'm not high risk.

There are some Type 2 that take insulin.
 
I think people are also forgetting about infrastructure in all of this. The people out there trying to save the lives. Our police, first responders, and hospital staff. We NEED those people. It's not even just about saving the life of every day people. We NEED the trained people. We need to save the infrastructure to have healthy firefighters or a heart surgeon. I don't think there too many disers that want to have to do heart surgery on a whim nor do I think many of us are educated to be able intubate a loved one. At this point lots people are screwed one way or the other but we have to save infrastructure. In the end life is still happening, people need help with broken bones, heart attacks, cancer, and car accidents. We need those people to help save our people.
Yup. 20% of the NYPD is out sick today. Mass transit system in NYC has had to reduce the frequency of trains because they are short-staffed due to sick workers. This is with the current mitigation efforts. I wonder how many would be out sick if nothing was being done.
 
A number of people have mentioned this, I'm just quoting you because you're on the last page. What qualifies as "enough" beds and how do you (we) know if we get to that point?

This is going to sound awfully naive, but I would expect an expert to be able to answer this type of question. And that's not me. While I don't believe everything I hear on tv, I also try to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. If Dr. Fauci or Dr. Birx said how many beds were available across the country and how long it would take for us to get there, I would just take that as face value, since that's their job.
 
Everyone is frustrated with this situation. A lot of it stems from the fact that we don't have a date on the calendar saying when we can get back to "normal". That and the way it is being handled by the government. There is so much misinformation, and lack of information, testing, etc that it makes people frustrated and angry. There is no good reason why hospitals are running out of ventilators, masks, and other protective gear. The Country should have been better prepared. People that have had the illness are saying that they are willing to provide their blood but are being told that there are not enough locations and staff to be able to take it. Things like this make us angry, rightfully so. Most people are doing the right thing, and I don't think that anyone should be dismissive to others that are questioning how this is being handled. Just staying at home is not enough. We need to push our leaders into doing the right thing.
 
Sorry. It's diabetes that is insulin dependent. I'm diabetes 2 (pills) and I'm not high risk.

There are some Type 2 that take insulin.

Well, not exactly true. Those with diabetes are at higher risk when you have constantly fluctuating blood sugars or diabetes is not well managed.

From the American Diabetes Association:
Q: Are the risks different for people with type 1 and type 2 diabetes?

A: In general, we don’t know of any reason to think COVID-19 will pose a difference in risk between type 1 and type 2 diabetes. More important is that people with either type of diabetes vary in their age, complications and how well they have been managing their diabetes.

People who already have diabetes-related health problems are likely to have worse outcomes if they contract COVID-19 than people with diabetes who are otherwise healthy, whichever type of diabetes they have.
 
According to Ohio board of health and National health institutes. . It’s treated as same now. In the field also in EMS. Both can be equally bad. Both can have or not have the news for insulin. Some can be treated with diet. Some can’t. It’s just not simple as type 1. Type 2. Used to be type one was juvenile. Type 2 was older. And no need for insulin. That’s not the case anymore. Weight. Has ALOT to do with it.
Weight has zero to do with Type 1 diabetes. ZERO.

They are two different diseases with different causes and different treatments.
 
Well, not exactly true. Those with diabetes are at higher risk when you have constantly fluctuating blood sugars or diabetes is not well managed.

From the American Diabetes Association:
Q: Are the risks different for people with type 1 and type 2 diabetes?

A: In general, we don’t know of any reason to think COVID-19 will pose a difference in risk between type 1 and type 2 diabetes. More important is that people with either type of diabetes vary in their age, complications and how well they have been managing their diabetes.

People who already have diabetes-related health problems are likely to have worse outcomes if they contract COVID-19 than people with diabetes who are otherwise healthy, whichever type of diabetes they have.
People with Type 1 diabetes have an autoimmune disorder. Perhaps that complicates things with COVID? Just guessing.
 
Well, not exactly true. Those with diabetes are at higher risk when you have constantly fluctuating blood sugars or diabetes is not well managed.

From the American Diabetes Association:
Q: Are the risks different for people with type 1 and type 2 diabetes?

A: In general, we don’t know of any reason to think COVID-19 will pose a difference in risk between type 1 and type 2 diabetes. More important is that people with either type of diabetes vary in their age, complications and how well they have been managing their diabetes.

People who already have diabetes-related health problems are likely to have worse outcomes if they contract COVID-19 than people with diabetes who are otherwise healthy, whichever type of diabetes they have.
Weight has zero to do with Type 1 diabetes. ZERO.

They are two different diseases with different causes and different treatments.

Thanks for the information.
When this was all first ramping up mid March my coworker who is on insulin was told to go home as she was high risk. They said I was not as I was not on insulin. I do recall reading in early reports that it was diabetics on insulin that were higher risk..

Looking now I see that that is not mentioned. My numbers are fairly stable but i guess I should consider myself a bit higher risk.
 
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