Anyone else think enough is enough... ?

[Colleen27]

We need to buy time to get medical supplies, find a treatment, and develop a vaccine. The bomb squads are the scientists, the health care professionals are the soldiers and the medical equipment their weapons.

That's how it is supposed to work. I don't think anyone can seriously make the case that it is working that way, in the U.S. My area is part of one of the hardest hit metros. There are still no tests - hospitals set up drive-through testing facilities only to end up turning people away for lack of test equipment. A friend, who is high risk because of a heart condition, was just told the hospital group her doctor is affiliated with is only testing hospitalized patients and women in the last month of pregnancy (so labor & delivery staff can take appropriate precautions). The saga of increased ventilator production has been well documented. Even our data collection on known cases is uneven from place to place and lagging behind that of many other countries. We're not doing anything to track recovered patients or otherwise attempt to assess current levels of immunity. And quite a few leaders are still lying to people by saying things like "the better we all comply with the shutdown, the sooner this will be over". All of that engenders a lack of confidence that ultimately undermines the willingness to comply with quarantine measures.

People will die directly from having Covid.

People will die because of Covid. (Healthcare is extremely delayed in some systems. No elective surgeries, no check ups, no mammograms, etc. No preventative care will lead to delayed diagnosis and eventual death for some people. Some healthcare systems are even delaying chemotherapy. Domestic violence is up in some areas along with child abuse. Suicides. People who will lose their jobs, homes and healthcare.)

It's about picking the lesser of two evils right now.

And people are inclined to choose the evil they feel most able to weather. Given the demographics of the DIS, my guess is that most of us are more worried about the virus than about being homeless or hungry or bankrupt or dying for lack of health insurance when this is all over... so we're more supportive of indefinite lockdown than people who feel more vulnerable to the financial impacts of a depression than to the virus itself.

 

[LittleMissMagic]

As for the OP, I totally get how she feels. To look around and see people’s entire lives going down the tubes during all this is really upsetting. Businesses closing maybe for good. Others who aren’t making enough money to stay open. People laid off and not being able to pay their bills. And the mental health of so many being put in jeopardy. Sometimes you do have to wonder when enough will be enough.

I think either way this situation could have gone, people would be wondering when is enough enough? Imagine if our government had done nothing. The virus got here mid-February, it's the beginning of April, and we're still going about our daily lives. Still have our jobs. Restaurants and bars are open. Coachella is happening. The Disney Parks are still open. And people are getting SICK. They are DYING (much like is happening now.... but we can assume the numbers are significantly greater). The hospitals are completely overwhelmed. Dead bodies being stacked in refrigerator trucks (oh yeah, that's already happening). And we're asking our government - "When is enough enough? When are you going to do something about this?? When are you going to help our hospitals? Our healthcare workers? Our sick family members?"

Both potential outcomes suck. Equally? I don't know - only one happened. And yeah, it sucks. But we've committed now, we've got to keep going. Because I think the worst thing to do at this point would be to backpedal, and open everything, everyone goes back to work after already being affected economically. And the virus keeps spreading. And now we've already been affected economically, the hospitals are overrun, and even more people are dying.

 

[PlainJane]

What part of the chart did you click on? I can’t get age to come up.

I can’t find it either. We, actually, are a high risk household, so it’d be nice to know exactly how “high risk” we are.

People will die directly from having Covid.

People will die because of Covid. (Healthcare is extremely delayed in some systems. No elective surgeries, no check ups, no mammograms, etc. No preventative care will lead to delayed diagnosis and eventual death for some people. Some healthcare systems are even delaying chemotherapy. Domestic violence is up in some areas along with child abuse. Suicides. People who will lose their jobs, homes and healthcare.)

It's about picking the lesser of two evils right now.

Yes! I keep telling my husband that knowing how many Covid-19 deaths will be prevented is useless information without an estimate of the amount of deaths that will occur because of the measures being taken. We need the net lives saved because there are people that are going to die to “slow the spread.”

 

[mi*vida*loca]

And people are inclined to choose the evil they feel most able to weather. Given the demographics of the DIS, my guess is that most of us are more worried about the virus than about being homeless or hungry or bankrupt or dying for lack of health insurance when this is all over... so we're more supportive of indefinite lockdown than people who feel more vulnerable to the financial impacts of a depression than to the virus itself.

I grew up in extreme poverty and have worked my butt off to be where I am today. I would most certainly take my risks with this virus if it came down to me losing my job, home and everything I've worked for. I would rather be dead than live the way I grew up or raise my kids in those conditions.

With that said, I think the shut downs and social distancing is a good thing. It is saving lives. And if it were a free for all those who would be most affected are the poor.

But for how long can it be maintained before it's a complete crap show on both ends.

 

[MillauFr]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/health/ihme-updated-covid19-model/index.html
These are new predictions based on schools/business closed until August.
All I will say is I see nothing wrong with being worried about how life will be if everything is closed until August. I'll be out of a job, as will most everyone I know.

They'll have trouble keeping things closed through May if there are new no deaths reported.

 

[SaintsManiac]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/health/ihme-updated-covid19-model/index.html
These are new predictions based on schools/business closed until August.
All I will say is I see nothing wrong with being worried about how life will be if everything is closed until August. I'll be out of a job, as will most everyone I know.

I told my husband last night that I feel like I could get to July without going too insane, but if this thing stretches into August I will be at the breaking point.

 

[MillauFr]

With that said, I think the shut downs and social distancing is a good thing. It is saving lives. And if it were a free for all those would be most affected are the poor.

I'm sure the poor are more impacted than the rich. The highway volume data I saw showed a larger volume decline on freeways going to wealthy cities. The poor have less ability to work from home and are getting sick at higher rates.

 

[Farro]

It's unfortunate that we can't get true numbers. Because if we can see how much of population has already had it and recovered, then the business closings, etc. may have different projections. Perhaps can open sooner.

Not just numbers of deaths, but of everyone who has had Covid. The problem from the beginning was lack of tests, but oh well now.
I would imagine the sheer amount of people who had Covid by now and just were turned down for testing or never even bothered has got to be astronomical, just based on the data out there now from those were tested.

 

[lovemygoofy]

I think people are also forgetting about infrastructure in all of this. The people out there trying to save the lives. Our police, first responders, and hospital staff. We NEED those people. It's not even just about saving the life of every day people. We NEED the trained people. We need to save the infrastructure to have healthy firefighters or a heart surgeon. I don't think there too many disers that want to have to do heart surgery on a whim nor do I think many of us are educated to be able intubate a loved one. At this point lots people are screwed one way or the other but we have to save infrastructure. In the end life is still happening, people need help with broken bones, heart attacks, cancer, and car accidents. We need those people to help save our people.

 

[SaintsManiac]

It's unfortunate that we can't get true numbers. Because if we can see how much of population has already had it and recovered, then the business closings, etc. may have different projections. Perhaps can open sooner.

Not just numbers of deaths, but of everyone who has had Covid. The problem from the beginning was lack of tests, but oh well now.
I would imagine the sheer amount of people who had Covid by now and just were turned down for testing or never even bothered has got to be astronomical, just based on the data out there now from those were tested.

I think so, too. The tests being run in New Orleans 3 weeks ago were coming out faulty. People having to be re-tested. People pretty sure they had it, but don't have healthcare and couldn't get access to a test, etc. I think way more people had it than we have record of.

Now we have rapid testing in Baton Rouge with 5 minute results. We are going to see more accurate numbers in my area.

 

[Disneypro1]

On a lighter note... Disney will obviously be open by Summer. Even the theme parks In Ohio sent out a statement that by June 5 they plan to be open. Does anyone NOT plan to go. I’d go in a heart beat in June. But probably have to wait untill fall due to work..

 

[VandVsmama]

Well, this thread blew up pretty fast. Maybe it's time for everyone to go over to the "just chill" thread or take a break for a few min from the keyboard.

 

[trivan]

OK, I'm coming to the defense of the OP. TO the TLDR crowd, SHAME ON YOU! It was all of 5 paragraphs, not a diatribe. She brings up good points, points that should be listened to. Yes, the prudent thing to do is stay at home, for now - but did you read her post? She brings up some great, common sense solutions that could get hairdressers and barbers back to work.

This is not a solution.... So if you take 1 hair dresser, seeing 1 person every 90 mins for about 14 hours (6:30am-9:00pm), thats roughly 9 people that hair dresser sees. If the hair dresser is asymptomatic then affects the customers and those 9 people each have the national average of 3.14 persons in the household, that one day of work just infected 28 people.

And you state gloves and masks? Doctors and Nurses in full PPE's are getting infected too. So just using gloves and masks helps but is not 100%.

Just stay home till the numbers are down.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Well, this thread blew up pretty fast. Maybe it's time for everyone to go over to the "just chill" thread or take a break for a few min from the keyboard.

This isn't even close to being as bad as others on this forum. I stay out of those now. I don't think anyone is really angry or upset. Just a heated debate.

 

[gotomu212]

No I’m saying. Year after year. 60k or more will die from the flu. Vaccine or not. Thats year after year. And at some point soon. We will re open. And life will go on. Over 120k died from the flu and h1n1 combined in 2010. We didn’t close anything.
I’m any case. We will be re opening the nation by summer. This will all be an old debate and life will go on.

Do you mean worldwide or the US? This chart from the CDC shows only one year in the last 10 over 60k. One year was five times less (12k) and only 3 years we’re over 40k. Your annual estimates are very inflated and might explain why others are taking covid estimated death rates more seriously.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

 

[Lumpy1106]

This is not a solution.... So if you take 1 hair dresser, seeing 1 person every 90 mins for about 14 hours (6:30am-9:00pm), thats roughly 9 people that hair dresser sees. If the hair dresser is asymptomatic then affects the customers and those 9 people each have the national average of 3.14 persons in the household, that one day of work just infected 28 people.

And you state gloves and masks? Doctors and Nurses in full PPE's are getting infected too. So just using gloves and masks helps but is not 100%.

Just stay home till the numbers are down.

OK, but you are assuming that the hairdresser is sick. Now, that's a "safe" assumption today, but there has to come a point where everyone is OK with assuming everyone is well. Is that day May 1? Probably not. How about June 1? Based on the numbers as they are looking today I'd be OK with that, but there are too many people out there right now who would never accept any date. That's not the problem today, but it will be.

 

[shelemm]

There you go again. You know exactly what I meant by the .
1776 Declaration of Independence. When we started as a nation. A free nation. Unless you missed that day.
1776. The greatest started then.
No revisionist history here.
I’m not part of the hate America crowd.

I am admittedly willing to accept your beginning date, although my own unscientific survey indicates that no general American History book begins that way. But what the heck, go ahead, I will play along.

My gist was that your way of thinking is wrong and perhaps dangerous for so many reasons. I listed but one: African Americans. They are beyond your radar of what constitutes a Free Market and Capitalism for the last 230 years. So now I will allow you to continue without being sidetracked....

 

[SaintsManiac]

OK, but you are assuming that the hairdresser is sick. Now, that's a "safe" assumption today, but there has to come a point where everyone is OK with assuming everyone is well. Is that day May 1? Probably not. How about June 1? Based on the numbers as they are looking today I'd be OK with that, but there are too many people out there right now who would never accept any date. That's not the problem today, but it will be.

I think today we have to assume everyone is sick. I won't accept a date, because it is literally impossible for anyone to come up with one. We simply have to take this day to day and hope the curve flattens, the cases go down, the hospitals keep up and the deaths stop.

Sitting around speculating about when everything should "open back up" isn't going to help. No one knows. We all want it to! We all want the same thing, but some of us choose to go day to day and be realistic. Expect the worst, hope for the best.

 

[Disneypro1]

On a side note about hairdressers. My barber is cutting hair in his garage. Lol. Nothing better than a haircut with the smell of a lawn mower and gas along with it.

 

[luvsJack]

I think either way this situation could have gone, people would be wondering when is enough enough? Imagine if our government had done nothing. The virus got here mid-February, it's the beginning of April, and we're still going about our daily lives. Still have our jobs. Restaurants and bars are open. Coachella is happening. The Disney Parks are still open. And people are getting SICK. They are DYING (much like is happening now.... but we can assume the numbers are significantly greater). The hospitals are completely overwhelmed. Dead bodies being stacked in refrigerator trucks (oh yeah, that's already happening). And we're asking our government - "When is enough enough? When are you going to do something about this?? When are you going to help our hospitals? Our healthcare workers? Our sick family members?"

Both potential outcomes suck. Equally? I don't know - only one happened. And yeah, it sucks. But we've committed now, we've got to keep going. Because I think the worst thing to do at this point would be to backpedal, and open everything, everyone goes back to work after already being affected economically. And the virus keeps spreading. And now we've already been affected economically, the hospitals are overrun, and even more people are dying.

Yeah, at this point we really just have to “keep on keeping on”. It’s just scary to think how many will die due to Covid 19 without ever having the virus.