Anyone else think enough is enough... ?

[Disneypro1]

This debate will go on untill our nation reopens. That obviously will be by June. I wish it was a bit earlier. But come June. This will be old news. And we’ll be talking about Fast pass and this and that. And that will be a much more refreshing debate. Lol

 

[Nayan]

Of course. Folks were dying of the flu. Any other communicable disease. Accidents. Etc. life is not without risk. We cannot stay closed much longer. A year ago. You risk death by the flu going out. But you did. Over 60k died of the common flu. But that didn’t stop you. Or me or anyone else from living their lives.
Over 99% that gets this will survive this. And over half have no symptoms at all. It’s not a death sentence.

The difference is there's a vaccine for the flu. For this there isn't...yet. And there's still quite a bit we don't know about it. Just stay home.

 

[Disneypro1]

It’s a straw man and you know it.

No numbers are fact. Over 60k die of the flu alone each year. Yet. Nothing gets shut down. A death is a death. Car accident etc. regardless. This will all be re opened by June. Or so. Old news by fall. Life goes on

 

[RamblingMad]

No numbers are fact. Over 60k die of the flu alone each year. Yet. Nothing gets shut down. A death is a death. Car accident etc. regardless. This will all be re opened by June. Or so. Old news by fall. Life goes on

By fall we’ll have a second wave. This doesn’t magically go away.

 

[Disneypro1]

I will say one essential business id like to own is a gun shop. I just got a new Glock 19 and holy moly. They are busy. I should have gotten it last year. The wait was two weeks to get something usually available in one day. So there is one industry doing quite well.

 

[pryncess527]

So I want to know, do you have a limit on how long is too long? If they don't open things back up until August? January?

Well first of all with the ramp up of ventilator production I think that we can easily hit a point where our medical system wouldn’t be overwhelmed by cases far before January and likely far before August. I envision large places like Disney World open up by September if not July.

as for how long is too long, that really depends on the science and data. Just like I can’t call the bottom of the stock market, I can’t say with any certainty how long is too long on this. I don’t think we’re there yet.

I have seen some strong science backing up the decision to isolate up until this point. I have seen strong science backing up the decision to isolate through at least the end of April and possibly May depending on the rates and numbers at that point. I will need to continue to see strong science to back up decision to continue to isolate past that, but I wouldn’t expect anyone to have that data until closer to that time.

 

[Disneypro1]

By fall we’ll have a second wave. This doesn’t magically go away.

That may be. But the Nation will be long re opened. Folks back to ball games etc. and Disney.

 

[Colleen27]

I'm not quite there yet, but I'm close.

People, including our leaders on both sides of the aisle, are completely misunderstanding the value of flattening the curve and rather than enabling a coordinated response, lockdown has *replaced* other response measures. Unfortunately, that means there is no end game to this. Just lockdown until such time as there is a vaccine and enough supply for the entire country/world. I totally support social distancing and quarantine measures if they're done in service of actually addressing the virus and developing ways to get to a new normal, but if they're being done for their own sake with no bigger plan, well, then enough is absolutely going to be enough at some point. Because in essence, if we're not using the time lockdown buys to actually address the pandemic head-on, we're asking people to sacrifice their businesses and their jobs and their extended families and their mental well being for absolutely no reason.

This analogy is actually really good:

Here's an example: If there were bombs hidden all throughout downtown which would make more sense? 1. Everyone just defiantly going about their business and blowing up themselves and others. Or 2. everyone staying inside while bomb squads went through the city to strategically remove all the bombs.

I would not see the citizens in scenario 2 as "cowering in fear", but rather as behaving rationally. And I certainly wouldn't see those in scenario 1 as "fighters"; I would think they were idiots for unnecessarily getting themselves and others killed.

Except that in our current response, we're not sending out bomb sniffing dogs or squads to disarm the devices. We're not trying to find the bomber to ensure no more bombs are set. We're just telling people to stay inside because the bombs are out there and treating those who don't listen or who have no choice but to continue to work and end up getting blown up. And we're telling them they're going to have to do this for an indeterminate period of time while someone works to develop and mass produce armor to protect against the blast.

People were willing to make sacrifices during the World Wars because they saw the fight. They knew their leaders were doing everything possible to make those sacrifices worthwhile and as short-lived as possible. They aren't seeing that now. And there's another fundamental difference. The rationing and shared sacrifice of the World Wars was just that - shared. It brought communities together, which makes anything more endurable on a human level. This is doing just the opposite.

Just a few more weeks. Projected deaths are projected to be down to zero by mid May.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...ations-may-have-already-peaked-in-washington/

That model assumes our current level of social distancing continues through the entire modeling period - that is, until August 1. So we get COVID19 deaths down to nothing, but it comes at a massive economic cost and does nothing to support a return to normal.

 

[kimblebee]

I never intended it to be snarky, which is why I changed it. I sincerely mean it.

I’m an American, & I’m proud to be an American. Yes, we have problems. But there are many good aspects to our country too.

I’m not saying you can’t be proud to be American. Everyone should be proud of where their from.

I just think it’s a little misguided at the moment.

That’s all I’m saying because I don’t like vacations.

 

[daisy2013]

No numbers are fact. Over 60k die of the flu alone each year. Yet. Nothing gets shut down. A death is a death. Car accident etc. regardless. This will all be re opened by June. Or so. Old news by fall. Life goes on

In just over a month there have been over 10,000 deaths for covid. Most (over 7000) in the past 7 days. This is not the flu even though you keep comparing it to the flu.

And your numbers are a little off. There were 61,000 deaths due to the flu in 2017/2018. That is the highest number since 2010. The next highest was 51,000 with the remainder in the training from 12,000 - 38,000. These are CDC numbers. So yes, one year 61,000 people died from the flu. But 61,000 people do not die from the flu every year.

 

[mjkacmom]

I'm not quite there yet, but I'm close.

People, including our leaders on both sides of the aisle, are completely misunderstanding the value of flattening the curve and rather than enabling a coordinated response, lockdown has *replaced* other response measures. Unfortunately, that means there is no end game to this. Just lockdown until such time as there is a vaccine and enough supply for the entire country/world. I totally support social distancing and quarantine measures if they're done in service of actually addressing the virus and developing ways to get to a new normal, but if they're being done for their own sake with no bigger plan, well, then enough is absolutely going to be enough at some point. Because in essence, if we're not using the time lockdown buys to actually address the pandemic head-on, we're asking people to sacrifice their businesses and their jobs and their extended families and their mental well being for absolutely no reason.

This analogy is actually really good:


Except that in our current response, we're not sending out bomb sniffing dogs or squads to disarm the devices. We're not trying to find the bomber to ensure no more bombs are set. We're just telling people to stay inside because the bombs are out there and treating those who don't listen or who have no choice but to continue to work and end up getting blown up. And we're telling them they're going to have to do this for an indeterminate period of time while someone works to develop and mass produce armor to protect against the blast.

People were willing to make sacrifices during the World Wars because they saw the fight. They knew their leaders were doing everything possible to make those sacrifices worthwhile and as short-lived as possible. They aren't seeing that now. And there's another fundamental difference. The rationing and shared sacrifice of the World Wars was just that - shared. It brought communities together, which makes anything more endurable on a human level. This is doing just the opposite.



That model assumes our current level of social distancing continues through the entire modeling period - that is, until August 1. So we get COVID19 deaths down to nothing, but it comes at a massive economic cost and does nothing to support a return to normal.

We need to buy time to get medical supplies, find a treatment, and develop a vaccine. The bomb squads are the scientists, the health care professionals are the soldiers and the medical equipment their weapons.

 

[SaintsManiac]

No numbers are fact. Over 60k die of the flu alone each year. Yet. Nothing gets shut down. A death is a death. Car accident etc. regardless. This will all be re opened by June. Or so. Old news by fall. Life goes on

You still don’t get it. We are trying to keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed.

Where I live has a terribly high rate of auto accidents, but 60 people don’t die from them in one day here.

It’s a bad analogy, period.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

It’s death versus excess capitalism. I prefer life. I don’t need more stuff.

We could be like the Ancient Egyptians and try taking ‘stuff’ with us..... but someone may come along many centuries later and steal it from us.

 

[godisney14]

No numbers are fact. Over 60k die of the flu alone each year. Yet. Nothing gets shut down. A death is a death. Car accident etc. regardless. This will all be re opened by June. Or so. Old news by fall. Life goes on

Did you even read what you wrote?

Have we been through a year of SARS-COV-2 without shutting down anything?
If not, how can you compare in that way?

We have over 11,000 deaths now from this coronavirus in just about 2 months with many places across the country shut down even.
I can’t even imagine what the death toll would be like in one complete year with life as usual (no shutdowns). I can guarantee you it would have been much greater than 60k.

 

[Disneypro1]

In just over a month there have been over 10,000 deaths for covid. Most (over 7000) in the past 7 days. This is not the flu even though you keep comparing it to the flu.

No I’m saying. Year after year. 60k or more will die from the flu. Vaccine or not. Thats year after year. And at some point soon. We will re open. And life will go on. Over 120k died from the flu and h1n1 combined in 2010. We didn’t close anything.
I’m any case. We will be re opening the nation by summer. This will all be an old debate and life will go on.

 

[LittleMissMagic]

There you go. That's me. Go ahead and read my follow response that I posted while you were typing. Feel free to answer.

You know, two of those angles are actually acute...

 

[daisy2013]

No I’m saying. Year after year. 60k or more will die from the flu. Vaccine or not. That year after year. And at some point soon. We will re open. And life will go on.

but your numbers are wrong. According to the CDC 61,000 died in 2017/2018. That was the highest number in a decade if not more. The low number is 12, 000. So I can make the argument that covid-19 has killed as many people in the past month as the flu did in a year and we haven't hit the peak for covid.

Facts are fun...

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

 

[mi*vida*loca]

People will die directly from having Covid.

People will die because of Covid. (Healthcare is extremely delayed in some systems. No elective surgeries, no check ups, no mammograms, etc. No preventative care will lead to delayed diagnosis and eventual death for some people. Some healthcare systems are even delaying chemotherapy. Domestic violence is up in some areas along with child abuse. Suicides. People who will lose their jobs, homes and healthcare.)

It's about picking the lesser of two evils right now.

 

[luvsJack]

I

Kimblebee is correct, and I'm an American. Too bad you changed your post to take out the snarky, because your response sure wasn't sincere.

So does she tell us when it IS ok to wave the flag? It’s really none of her business who is or isn’t proud to be American. She has her own country to be proud of.



As for the OP, I totally get how she feels. To look around and see people’s entire lives going down the tubes during all this is really upsetting. Businesses closing maybe for good. Others who aren’t making enough money to stay open. People laid off and not being able to pay their bills. And the mental health of so many being put in jeopardy. Sometimes you do have to wonder when enough will be enough.

 

[old lady]

A cure, remedy, or something to get rid of this would be helpful.

 

[Farro]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/health/ihme-updated-covid19-model/index.html
These are new predictions based on schools/business closed until August.
All I will say is I see nothing wrong with being worried about how life will be if everything is closed until August. I'll be out of a job, as will most everyone I know.