An end to tipping?

[Feralpeg]

There are three positions at WDW where there is very little turn over. Those positions are housekeeping, bartender and server in the fine dining locations. Those CMs love those positions because they make so much money in tips. They would hate the idea of no tipping.

Recently, my sister met a lady who transferred from housekeeping to a park food & beverage position. My sister schedules training for CMs. The CM had to change jobs due to a medical issue, but she said she hated it. Not only did she have one of the highest paid positions at WDW being in housekeeping, she made a lot of money in tips. She told my sister, she lost about $1000 a week when she transferred just in lost tips.

From a consumer standpoint, I hate the idea of tipping. I'd much rather pay the price required to cover the salary of the server and reserve tips for exceptional service. I'm just not sure that those who work in tipped positions would like this idea.

 

[Goofyluver]

Showing your appreciation should come from the heart, not because you feel like you have to.

Where do you think my appreciation comes from?

Feed me some food, give me a slammin' haircut, wash my car so it sparkles...it makes my heart happy.

 

[Christine]

Let me also point out I find it strange that we are expected (and if you don't believe a tip is EXPECTED I don't know what to say) to tip a waiter, but not the fast food (or CS at Disney) worker. They are doing the same thing, taking your order and filling it correctly.

Waiters make under minimum wage, counter service Disney workers make a legal wage knowing they won't be tipped. I also think that waiters at a restaurant work harder than counter service fast food. Generally, the food is more varied, much more to remember and learn, they have to monitor the kitchen and get your order together and ensure that it goes quite a ways an makes it to your table without falling.

 

[Buckalew11]

Where do you think my appreciation comes from?

Feed me some food, give me a slammin' haircut, wash my car so it sparkles...it makes my heart happy.

If I playin' judge here, I'm guessing by your posts that you tip when your heart is happy. Which seems like most of the time.

 

[Becky2005]

Actually -- I agree and my dad was a barber so we lived on those tips but -- tipping to me is SO confusing nowadays. I mean, I rarely go to Starbucks but they have a tip jar out there (who the heck gets the tip anyway? Is it shared? Does it go to the person making the coffee or taking the order?).

I actually worked as a waitress once and I would have gladly taken a real min. wage job rather than the $2.85/hour I made because the law assumed the tips would make up the difference. I suppose if you are in a high end restaraunt it could but a place like Colonial that wasn't going to happen -- it was other high school kids coming in to eat. I also worked at Pizza Hut but never got tips since I wasn't a waitress -- I got paid the minimum wage. I'm sure the waitresses got paid less than me & I'm sure there were times I made way more than them (I know for a fact my job was less stressful than theres! -- I was behind the scenes and/or answering the phones & being a cashier).

There are many times when someone is not sure if they should or should not tip, etc... In my employer right now, if we take a tip we would get fired but how is the poor average person to know which companies will fire an employee for taking a tip and which ones expect people to tip to make up the difference in their wages?

I know I have accidently stiffed people because I had no idea I was even supposed to tip! I just assumed they were paid a fair wage for doing their job & it never occurred to me to tip. If my dad hadn't been a barber, I'm not sure I would know hairdressers expected tips. Other than wait staff --- I couldn't even tell you who is supposed to get tipped & who isn't and then sometimes things are all inclusive anyway so ?

I mean -- do you tip the usher at the theatre when they take you to your seat at a concert/show? I never have but for all I know I'm supposed to.

I do agree the over & above can be tipped -- we have done that in the past when I felt the service was way more than what was standard & knew the person didn't have to do XYZ but went totally out of their way to do so -- not because they were expecting a big fat tip if they did but because they felt it was the right thing to do in the situation.

I know tipping will never go away it's engrained in our society and it's the "give them a bigger tip so you will get more" mentality that will prevail but it would be nice if that wasn't the concept.

 

[sam_gordon]

Yes, you are expected to leave a tip at a sit down restaurant and not a counter service restaurant. Though many counter service places have a tip jar, so there you get your wish. Someone getting you food for minimum wage, but the tip is truly optional.

You said earlier that barring bad service, everyone should tip, right? If not, they're "cheap"? So on a $50 bill, everyone should pay at least $57.50 (assuming 15%). So why not make the bill $57.50 to begin with?

I probably mistitled the thread... maybe I should have called in an end to "expected" tipping. I don't have a problem with tipping per se. But I disagree that it should be expected.

 

[eliza61]

I enjoy dining in many places in Europe simply because tipping is not done much.

Tipping here in the states in not really "optional". God forbid you don't leave a tip.

I hate the argument "they make low wages". IMO that is nothing but emotional blackmail. You are allowed to be mediocre in your job and still get compensated because your employee doesn't pay livable wages.

I wonder if I could go to work, do a mediocre or lousy job and then go to my boss and expect, almost demand a year end bonus? Why is it acceptable in the service industry.

Give me decent service and you get a tip. give me lousy service and you don't. Your salary in no way influences my decision.

 

[sam_gordon]

It's also been pointed out that in many restaurants, the tips get shared between the waiters, cooks, bartenders, busboys, etc. But what happens if only ONE person screwed up? For example, the cook undercooks your food... you send it back and then he overcooks it. Shouldn't the tip be adjusted because the service (food) wasn't correct? But by adjusting the tipping, aren't you "punishing" the others who had absolutely nothing to do with the improper cooking? Or do you undertip and leave a note explaining the reason? Or do you tip normally?

 

[MSLRAC]

Not all non-food workers are salaried.

The person working at Wal-Mart who you stopped on his way to the breakroom to find an item that's clear across the store for you is not salaried.

The bank teller who realizes that the reason you want to withdraw your money is because you're being scammed is not salaried.

The preschool teacher who spends hours of her own evening and money to make the experience wonderful for your child may be salaried, but she's probably not pulling in much more than minimum wage.

The mechanic who's working on your car and could easily sell you the widget that you don't really need because he knows you know nothing about cars may or may not be salaried... but he just made your life easier.

The person in the bookstore who finds your book for you even though the only thing he had to go on was that the author's first name was John isn't salaried.

THAT is why I hate tipping. There are so many people I encounter on a daily basis who go above and beyond... we don't tip those people.

None of those people you mentioned make $2-3 an hour like restaurant servers do. So in most cases you are looking at a raise of at very least $5 an hour per server just to get them to minimum wage and that raise, will result in skyrocketing restaurant prices. I would suspect that many good servers would move on because they will then be making less than they were before. Most good servers who work at restaurants with good table turn over will make much more than $5 an hour in tips.

 

[sam_gordon]

None of those people you mentioned make $2-3 an hour like restaurant servers do. So in most cases you are looking at a raise of at very least $5 an hour per server just to get them to minimum wage and that raise, will result in skyrocketing restaurant prices. I would suspect that many good servers would move on because they will then be making less than they were before. Most good servers who work at restaurants with good table turn over will make much more than $5 an hour in tips.

Isn't that the case in any industry? Good "Widget Makers" will go where the money is. People who want to buy quality widgets go where they are made. Usually quality widgets cost more. Why not have it the same for restaurants?

Again, I don't think tipping should be eliminated all together, just the EXPECTATION of a tip.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I would actually love to see tipping go away completely! (And I fully mean with the price increases that would follow). This is why:

1) Tipping "rules" are so confusing! If there is a tip jar at a counter service place, are you expected to tip 20% like you would in a sit-down place, or just drop your coin change in there? How much do you tip for delivery? What if there is a delivery charge already added? What about take-out places that bring things out to your car? - They're not doing as much as a waitress who keeps coming back to check on you, refill your drinks, and everything, but I'm still thankful if they're coming out in bad weather so I don't have to. What percentage do they deserve?

2) People who rely on these tips as part of their paychecks can't plan their budgets confidently. I would hate to worry all the time about whether I would make enough in tips, when so much is left to chance in the current system. Making a lot or a little is not just about the level the level of service you provide. There's luck of the draw on who gets what table, crowds dependant on the weather, different people's opinions of how much is a fair tip, all sorts of things.

I'd love to do away with it entirely.

 

[sookie]

I voted yes, because I would like to see these people get a consistent wage. How hard would it be to be a single mom, and you would just have to hope that people are 1) in a good mood and 2) generous that night so you can pay your electric bill and feed your kid? Not a great place to be in.

 

[MSLRAC]

Isn't that the case in any industry? Good "Widget Makers" will go where the money is. People who want to buy quality widgets go where they are made. Usually quality widgets cost more. Why not have it the same for restaurants?

Again, I don't think tipping should be eliminated all together, just the EXPECTATION of a tip.

I know many servers that make a very good living and would totally leave the industry if they were paid just minimum wage because they make much more than that with tips.

Think of the chain of events that would be set in motion by this...good servers would leave because they can make more in other industries with less stress, restaurants would be left with mainly the crappy servers that never got good tips to begin with because they did not provide good service, people won't stand for constant crappy service...meals will be sent back, food will be comped, number will go down, profits will go down, non-chain restaurants will be forced to close...chain restaurants will have to increase their prices yet again in order to pay their servers more than minimum wage so they could attract better servers again and get back on track. So a simple steak dinner in a chain restaurant that used to cost $14.99 would probably end up being $24.99 or more (which is far more than a 15% tip). No thank you...I would much rather just pay a tip!!

Something that seems so simple will have a ripple effect that I think many of your are missing or oversimplifying.

 

[tvguy]

Well, America is clearly at a cross roads when it come to what people are paid. .
Full disclosure, I live in a state where there is no sub-minimum wage for those iin tipped positions, and in a state with one of the highest minimum wages. I also live in a state where we have one city with a living wage law (San Francisco, minimum wage $10.24 an hour). And I work for a company that in 2008 "reset" wages (their term) down 5% because "our industry could not longer afford to pay the wages they used to be able to.

Unfortunately, I think between Occupy and other movements, the push is to reduce wages, not increase them. My Christmas gifts included several books from several perspectives looking at the mess our economy is on, and the theme is the same. We can no longer remain a nation that is primarily a consumer of goods, we need to get back to being a nation that produces goods for export. The big sticking block? We pay our workers too much. Especially unskilled labor. We can no longer afford to pay someone who is bolting a part on a car for GM $27 an hour. And we certainly can not reward a corporate executive who cut half his corporations staff by half, and saw their stock price fall 75% with a $36 million severence package.
As for tipping. In my experience it does improve service. And every time the minimum wage goes up here, another bunch of restaurants closes because they can not afford to pay that wage because folks like you and I won't pay the menu prices that would be required to pay those wages. So I can only imagine the impact of eliminating tips on a small restaurant.
Let's be honest, too many people can afford iPhones and big screen TV's and BMW's in our society right now, despite the recession. We need to get back to paying what jobs are worth, and sadly, I don't think eliminating tips is going to help.

 

[disney1990]

OK, I'm putting on my flame suit.

In my OPINION, restaurants, hair salons, valet parking, etc should raise the pay of the workers to at least minimum wage, raise the cost of the services to their customers to pay for that increase, and truly make tipping optional.

Yes, people might say tipping is optional now, but do you really believe that? Look at all the threads that say "if you can't afford a tip, don't go out".

Another argument I head is "tips ensure good service". Really? I try my hardest at work, not because of a possible end of year bonus, but because I WANT to do a good job. If I don't get the bonus does my work suffer? No.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against tipping. I'm against tipping for "standard" service. OK, waiter, you greeted me, took my order, filled it correctly, waited some time, then presented me with the check. Isn't that your JOB?

Again, in my opinion, tips should be reserved for going "above and beyond" your standard job duties. Do I think this will ever really happen? No. But I wonder if other people agree with me.

For those of you who don't... flame away.

I support paying at least minimum wage to all workers and making tips truly what they are supposed to be. Extra for doing a great job.

 

[sam_gordon]

I know many servers that make a very good living and would totally leave the industry if they were paid just minimum wage because they make much more than that with tips.

Think of the chain of events that would be set in motion by this...good servers would leave because they can make more in other industries with less stress, restaurants would be left with mainly the crappy servers that never got good tips to begin with because they did not provide good service, people won't stand for constant crappy service...meals will be sent back, food will be comped, number will go down, profits will go down, non-chain restaurants will be forced to close...chain restaurants will have to increase their prices yet again in order to pay their servers more than minimum wage so they could attract better servers again and get back on track. So a simple steak dinner in a chain restaurant that used to cost $14.99 would probably end up being $24.99 or more (which is far more than a 15% tip). No thank you...I would much rather just pay a tip!!

Something that seems so simple will have a ripple effect that I think many of your are missing or oversimplifying.

I think you might be oversimplifying to the other side. Getting rid of EXPECTED tips does not mean getting rid of ALL tips. So, outstanding servers could get minimum wage AND tips.

 

[Acklander]

You said earlier that barring bad service, everyone should tip, right? If not, they're "cheap"? So on a $50 bill, everyone should pay at least $57.50 (assuming 15%). So why not make the bill $57.50 to begin with?

I probably mistitled the thread... maybe I should have called in an end to "expected" tipping. I don't have a problem with tipping per se. But I disagree that it should be expected.

Well, if they changed the price from 50$ to 57.50, and give the 7.50 to the wait staff, isn't that the same as the waiter/waitress expecting it? So, what difference does it make?

 

[Acklander]

I think you might be oversimplifying to the other side. Getting rid of EXPECTED tips does not mean getting rid of ALL tips. So, outstanding servers could get minimum wage AND tips.

What would the point be?

 

[MSLRAC]

I think you might be oversimplifying to the other side. Getting rid of EXPECTED tips does not mean getting rid of ALL tips. So, outstanding servers could get minimum wage AND tips.

So prices will be driven up far more than 15% to cover these new wages for all the servers plus exceptional service will still get tips?!? You're talking a HUGE price increase there whether you want to believe it or not! Seriously, tipping is not that confusing, not that hard and is far cheaper than this plan you have concocted.

 

[Eeyore98]

I am with the OP 100%. I always tip, and well, but I would much rather pay higher menu prices and know that the servers are paid a standard wage...possibly even with actual benefits at some places! (Sorry, that's a personal issue with me, because my uncle was an Applebee's server for years, until he died at 46 as a direct consequence of not being able to afford health insurance.)

And for the prior posters who seem to think that all restaurants would only pay minimum wage if forced to...simple economics would make that pretty unlikely. Nicer places would pay more, to be able to attract the better servers with more experience. I'm sure, say, Steak n' Shake and Denny's would pay minimum wage, chain places like Chili's and Olive Garden would pay more, and upscale places like Ruth's Chris, etc., would pay still more.

And the WDW housekeeper who lost $1000/week after moving from a tipped position.... That's more just in tips than I have ever come close to making in my life! Why am I tipping these people?