An end to tipping?

[eliza61]

Appearance? As in how often they are at your table or what they look like?

LOL. How often they come by the table. Although I once went to a restaurant and the server had one of those "mike tyson" tattos over the left side of his face.
I probably should have seriously gave him a huge tip because I kept starring at the poor guy. I wanted to ask if the thing was permanent and when you hit 50 do you regret doing that. My dh kept kicking me under the table.

I'm going to go back and edit. Thanks.

 

[sam_gordon]

none, why work hard, im still getting paid at the end. Just do the bare minimum so you dont get in trouble. only thing that keeps me working hard at work are incentives, aka my tips.

Wow. GREAT work ethic there. Speaking for myself, I don't work hard because of ANY incentive other than I want to do a good job.

 

[Albort]

Wow. GREAT work ethic there. Speaking for myself, I don't work hard because of ANY incentive other than I want to do a good job.

I thought about this long and hard. I WAS one of those hard workers who pushed and pushed to change things for the better, problem is, i was the only one. At the end, i quit the job because of overly stress from it. No one at the company gave a rats about anything. I was deemed the evil one because i cared too much. at the end, i was getting in trouble to stiring up the pot. I dropped out of school, i spent 90% of my life at the company working long shifts for them. I dont sleep and saw a psychologist for this stress who has no idea what to say to me anymore but telling me to find a new job. At the end, i had enough and i quit.

but when ur a manager, and ur own staff member tell u that, why should i work hard? im getting a paycheck for doing my job. Im still doing my job regardless. im just not trying that hard. what exactly to u tell them?

I believe every companies have the good and bad. problem is, the bad who dont work spend most of their time sucking up to the bosses. The good does their work, but yet, the bad are the ones that get rewarded because they are close to the boss and little easy things make the boss super happy while boss things the good just isnt cutting it because they never talk to them.

Then again, i work with a lot of hired high school/college. a lot of them are soo immature.

 

[sbell111]

In reality, it's not up to any of us to decide what the tip calculation "should" be, or how anyone who is not us or employed by us "should" be compensated. Anyone who doesn't agree with tipping as it exists in this country has options: fast food, don't dine out, find restaurants that don't allow tipping...

Actually, it is up to EACH of us to decide what the tip calculation should be.

Because everything everywhere is cash only and both the employers and the IRS trust every worker in the country to be 100% truthful, right?

You've never worked as a restaurant accountant or bookkeeper, have you?

I don't need to have held those positions to have read the IRS publication on this issue (which I previously posted a link to.)

It appears you, like mrrodgers, are considering only the time the server is actually serving you - as if they magically appear at your table to be at your beck and call the instant you need them, and disappear from existence when you walk out the door. ...

They might have walked their dog before coming in to work, but I'm not paying them for that, either. The only time that their actions concern me is the time that I am in the restaurant.

... I don't get it; it just seems like... a way to feel powerful over people by taking their salary over such petty little things.

I think that you have hit on the disconnect. Some people believe that the money in my pocket is theirs. It isn't. It's mine.

If a server does a good job, I'll give him/her some of my money in appreciation. Once I give them that money, it becomes theirs. Until I do, it's not. Money that I don't give to them is not their salary. I didn't take anything from them.

(To think that someone called me a occupod.)

A tip isn't a courtesy. It's the waitstaff's salary. You might not like that that's the way the industry is set up, but it is.

A tip doesn't become salary until it is given.

In addition, if you don't tip because the waiter is doing something you feel isn't servile enough, you're costing them money on top, as they're taxed on the assumed tip that you didn't give them.

That's not true, as explained in the IRS publication that I linked.

I disagree that anyone missed the part where the server's perceived bad attitude or less than expected service came in. But according to this statement you won't tip (at all?) for whatever you consider less than "good" service - even if the person greets you, takes and serves all your drink and food orders promptly and correctly - if they roll their eyes [even though that's the fourth time you asked for a clean spoon and the third time he personally washed and dried and inspected one before giving it to you]; or seem to ignore your request for the check even though they actually didn't hear you [naturally it wasn't because you snapped your fingers to him from across the room and yelled, "Check, please!"], or because something happened that delayed him getting your check to you. You did get it eventually, right? You didn't leave the restaurant without paying?

Just because the check eventually arrived doesn't make the service 'good'.

Is your salary a courtesy?

My salary is a requirement of my contract. I made no such contract with the server. If I had, it would surely state that good service was required for him to realize his 'salary'. What's your point?

No, the IRS calculates based on the receipts from the server's or restaurant's sales, so they're taxed as if everyone has tipped. Hence if you don't, or tip low, they're paying tax on something they didn't get.

Again, this is not correct. See the IRS link.

 

[sam_gordon]

I thought about this long and hard. I WAS one of those hard workers who pushed and pushed to change things for the better, problem is, i was the only one. At the end, i quit the job because of overly stress from it. No one at the company gave a rats about anything. I was deemed the evil one because i cared too much. at the end, i was getting in trouble to stiring up the pot. I dropped out of school, i spent 90% of my life at the company working long shifts for them. I dont sleep and saw a psychologist for this stress who has no idea what to say to me anymore but telling me to find a new job. At the end, i had enough and i quit.

but when ur a manager, and ur own staff member tell u that, why should i work hard? im getting a paycheck for doing my job. Im still doing my job regardless. im just not trying that hard. what exactly to u tell them?

I believe every companies have the good and bad. problem is, the bad who dont work spend most of their time sucking up to the bosses. The good does their work, but yet, the bad are the ones that get rewarded because they are close to the boss and little easy things make the boss super happy while boss things the good just isnt cutting it because they never talk to them.

Then again, i work with a lot of hired high school/college. a lot of them are soo immature.

I will agree there are companies who don't care one bit about their employees. But, I feel if I sign up to do a job, I should do that job to the best of my ability. If I see something that needs corrected, I bring it to the attention of my supervisor. If they feel it's not worth pursuing, so be it.

As far as what I would say as a manager to a "who cares" employee... that's your choice. If the employee doesn't realize that applying themselves and pushing themselves IS the way to promotion, raises, heck, even other jobs, that's on them. If the employee doesn't realize that every manager has a list in their head of who is more expendable if THEY are told to "cut some fat", that's on them.

Now, granted, I'm pretty well set in my job. I've been here for 20+ years, and am one of the "go to" guys when there's a problem. Maybe it makes a difference that "sucking up" doesn't go far in my company and, to a certain extent, in my industry.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Actually, it is up to EACH of us to decide what the tip calculation should be.

I don't need to have held those positions to have read the IRS publication on this issue (which I previously posted a link to.)

They might have walked their dog before coming in to work, but I'm not paying them for that, either. The only time that their actions concern me is the time that I am in the restaurant.
I think that you have hit on the disconnect. Some people believe that the money in my pocket is theirs. It isn't. It's mine.

If a server does a good job, I'll give him/her some of my money in appreciation. Once I give them that money, it becomes theirs. Until I do, it's not. Money that I don't give to them is not their salary. I didn't take anything from them.

(To think that someone called me a occupod.)

A tip doesn't become salary until it is given.
That's not true, as explained in the IRS publication that I linked.

Just because the check eventually arrived doesn't make the service 'good'.

My salary is a requirement of my contract. I made no such contract with the server. If I had, it would surely state that good service was required for him to realize his 'salary'. What's your point?
Again, this is not correct. See the IRS link.

I agree with everything you stated.

This thread has a lot of philosophies on tipping, but very few are rooted in the definition of the word "tip". It truly is fascinating.

I tip for my reasons, someone else for theirs. In the end, it remains a gratuity to me.

A rose by any other name...

 

[kaytieeldr]

Then roll the cost of the tip into the price of the meal if it is necessary. That's the point. If getting (at least) a 15% tip is required, increase all the meals 15% and pay the employees appropriately.

Won't work. Just as people perceived they were getting less than wonderful service at Walt Disney World restaurants when the tip was included in the dining plan, the general public will generally perceive they're getting mediocre or less service if the servers have no incentive to be outstanding.

And as I've asked (with little success) and indicated earlier in the thread, along with someone else who seems to know the realities of restaurant and payroll costs - the food and beverage prices would need to increase more than the 15% some people in this thread think is 'fair'...and the meal/sales tax would go up as well.

Come to think of it, your state senators and reps would probably LOVE to support a bill like this!!!

 

[kaytieeldr]

Actually, it is up to EACH of us to decide what the tip calculation should be.

Take that up with your compatriot, mrodgers. He's the poster who created a formula mandating what the tip 'should' be.

I don't need to have held those positions to have read the IRS publication on this issue (which I previously posted a link to.)

Very kind of you to post that link (and to repeatedly refer to it). While I've never considered reading an IRS - or any - publication to make me an expert on a subject, the restaurants I've known have been as conscientious as possible about reporting tip income. From both sides.

They might have walked their dog before coming in to work, but I'm not paying them for that, either. The only time that their actions concern me is the time that I am in the restaurant.

That's what I get for posting while groggy. I said "at your table", but I meant "in the restaurant". Other posters have tried to explain about prep work and how that affects the dining experience, but it appears the anti-tipping posters feel all that stuff just magically happens, that it's perfectly fine for servers to be paid $2.85 or $3.15 an hour each minute they work because that's the law. There's no difference in their minimum wage between serving time or prep time

That's not true, as explained in the IRS publication that I linked.

The restaurant is required to file reports with the IRS as well, and is fined/punished for violations.

Just because the check eventually arrived doesn't make the service 'good'.

I still don't understand where the delay came: getting the server's attention, or getting the check after requesting it...
But just because the check doesn't arrive instantaneous doesn't make the service 'bad'.

My salary is a requirement of my contract. I made no such contract with the server. If I had, it would surely state that good service was required for him to realize his 'salary'. What's your point?

Congratulations on having an employment contract (most of the workforce doesn't have that benefit). But with good service being so subjective, even possibly to the same person at different times or in different locations, how could you even assess good service if you could put it in a contract?

[/quote]

 

[tvguy]

But I think that is more of "conditioning" and we see that mind set turning around.

There is a growing population that realizes that "cheap" does not always equal "value". Furniture, cotton and steel are three industries that are making a comeback for being produced in America. My dh works in the oil industry (refining) and now many american refineries are recognizing that foreign steel is lower grade and what seems like a bargain really isn't. Same with cotton. Anyway I got off point.

Maybe it's because I live and hang out in NY but I see more and more consumers now paying the adjusted price for the better quality. Food is definitely one area where people are starting to realize that the high preservatives, processed food may be cheaper but it definitely taste worse and is generally not the healthiest thing for you. I long ago stopped buying corn feed beef, yep I'll pay the higher premiium to get locally grown vegetables and grass grazed beef.

I am certainly willing to watch. But to me quality also includes the ability of a product to be repaired. And right now, for a lot of electronics items, you can't get parts, and when you can they cost almost as much as a new unit.
A circuit board in my 5 year old microwave/vent combo failed. I was able to remove it and take it into the shop to save the $75 service call charge. Part $175, labor $50 (the shops minimum charge), total $225. Exact same unit on sale at Sears, $219.

 

[Mickey'sMainMami]

What I don't get is, why can a fast food restaurant ask $5.00 for a value meal, and pay their workers minimum wage, but when you go to a restaurant, they aske 5 times more for a meal and they only pay their workers $4.00 an hour? Someone posted that if restaurants started paying their workers minimum wage, we would end up paying the price, sorry but I don't believe this. The upcharge they are charging on liquor and food already makes a huge profit for the place, IMO, I think they are being greedy by expecting their waiters/waitresses to work for peanuts and to live off the tips. There are a lot of people out there that don't tip or tip very poorly, does the restaurant ever give extra to the waiters and waitresses that get stiffed? No, in fact, I was a waitress, and I still had to pay for my own food, usually with a discount but still had to pay. I think the restaurants should have to pay minimum wage and tipping could still be given as an extra.