An end to tipping?

[happygirl]

I don't know any servers who would serve at minium wage, most servers make way more the miniumal wage.

The restaurants would have to up there prices A LOT to pay there servers and the other tipped employess they have..

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

where we have one city with a living wage law (San Francisco, minimum wage $10.24 an hour)

That's a you can work here and live in the bad part of Oakland wage.

 

[sam_gordon]

What would the point be?

The point is the customer shouldn't need to feel guilty about something OPTIONAL.

I don't have any facts to determine how much you'd need to increase prices to bump up employee salaries. But let's say tipped employees currently make $2/hour (to keep the math easy). You have a server, cook, bartender, and busboy. So it costs the owner $8/hour. Let's say you want to get them to $10/hour. So now you need to make up $32/hour.

How many tables does a server work in an hour? Four, six? I really don't know. Let's say five. Now, those five tables average $30 between them. Now you need to put up another $32... just over $6/table. Funny... if the tables average a $30 meal, bumping those meals up another $6 is the 20% people are saying you should tip.

My numbers may be WAY off. I have absolutely no basis.

 

[Acklander]

I hate the argument "they make low wages". IMO that is nothing but emotional blackmail. You are allowed to be mediocre in your job and still get compensated because your employee doesn't pay livable wages.

decision.

It's not emotional blackmail, and you're looking at it backwards. We don't tip because wait staff are paid low wages, wait staff are paid low wages because they get the bulk of their pay in tips.
If you look back to wages back at the turn of the century wait staff weren't paid at all. They worked just for tips. There have even been places that would require the staff to pay the owner a fee to work there. The big change came about with the industrial revolution, and labor unions demanding minimum wage. At that time restaurant owners were required to actually pay the small wages you see now, and stop charging the staff to work there. I'm thinking it was sometime in the late 70's that the government started to require wait staff to report their income, and that if it didn't meat the minimum wage (the real one, not the wait staff one) then the restaurant was supposed to pay the difference.
And there you have the history of tipping and the wait staff - according to acklander, who comes from several generations of restauranteurs.

 

[LuvCuteBoys]

I'm just not sure that those who work in tipped positions would like this idea.

And that's where my aggravation with the entire "tipping" culture comes in. People who work in tipped positions want to stay there because of the tips they make, but frequently they are the ones who foam at the mouth if a couple people don't follow the tipping rules.

When we have people getting arrested (if I remember the story correctly) because someone didn't leave a tip or a good enough tip or whatever, things are out of hand.

None of those people you mentioned make $2-3 an hour like restaurant servers do. So in most cases you are looking at a raise of at very least $5 an hour per server just to get them to minimum wage and that raise, will result in skyrocketing restaurant prices. I would suspect that many good servers would move on because they will then be making less than they were before. Most good servers who work at restaurants with good table turn over will make much more than $5 an hour in tips.

Again, if most servers are already making a lot of money with tips, then they shouldn't be complaining when one or two tables leaves what they consider to be an unsatisfactory tip.

If getting rid of tipping altogether would result in them making less money, then perhaps the "if you can't afford to tip, you should stay home" argument becomes a lot less valid to me.

The tip should not be automatic, and expecting that it will be nullifies the entire process.

 

[happygirl]

And that's where my aggravation with the entire "tipping" culture comes in. People who work in tipped positions want to stay there because of the tips they make, but frequently they are the ones who foam at the mouth if a couple people don't follow the tipping rules.

When we have people getting arrested (if I remember the story correctly) because someone didn't leave a tip or a good enough tip or whatever, things are out of hand.




Again, if most servers are already making a lot of money with tips, then they shouldn't be complaining when one or two tables leaves what they consider to be an unsatisfactory tip.

If getting rid of tipping altogether would result in them making less money, then perhaps the "if you can't afford to tip, you should stay home" argument becomes a lot less valid to me.

The tip should not be automatic, and expecting that it will be nullifies the entire process.

Okay, lets say your boss says, LuvCuteBoys makes really good money. She won't be upset if we don't pay her a week or two. Would that be okay with you. That what you want servers to do and be okat iwth that

 

[MSLRAC]

Again, if most servers are already making a lot of money with tips, then they shouldn't be complaining when one or two tables leaves what they consider to be an unsatisfactory tip.

If getting rid of tipping altogether would result in them making less money, then perhaps the "if you can't afford to tip, you should stay home" argument becomes a lot less valid to me.

The tip should not be automatic, and expecting that it will be nullifies the entire process.

I have seen countless threads on Dis about ways to get out of the automatic 18% tip at WDW on parties of 6 or more. So I am not buying that everyone would just accept the tip be added and prices going up.

 

[LuvCuteBoys]

Okay, lets say your boss says, LuvCuteBoys makes really good money. She won't be upset if we don't pay her a week or two. Would that be okay with you. That what you want servers to do and be okat iwth that

It's not the same thing at all. My boss HAS to pay me for hours worked. If I do a lousy job, he can fire me but he still has to pay me.

If I go out to eat, the waitress or waiter is rude, never checks up on us, etc it is NOT my responsibility to give them a tip. Their boss still has to pay them for their hours worked. It is NOT my job to pay someone. If the service is good, I can CHOOSE to give a tip.

I have seen countless threads on Dis about ways to get out of the automatic 18% tip at WDW on parties of 6 or more. So I am not buying that everyone would just accept the tip be added and prices going up.

I didn't realize I was answering for everyone. I thought I was giving my opinion?

 

[manning]

What should come to an end is mandatory tipping. It should be for good service.

 

[Ember]

One of my very favourite things about Australia is that no one tips! It's delightful! Australia's minimum wage is $15.51 per hour, and tipping is just not done here. In fact, in Australia, the term "tip" is also the name used for a garbage dump and for advice on gambling (e.g. which horse to back at the races), rather than having anything to do with gratuities.

It took me a while to adjust to not tipping, but after a nice dinner out I was actually followed down the street by my helpful waiter so he could give me back the money I had left on the table as I must have "forgotten" it. After that, I pretty well gave up and have gone local. It will be painful to have to go back to what is more or less mandatory tipping for arbitrarily designated jobs.

Also, because there is a lot of discussion on how terrible service would become and how things would go to heck in a handbasket if we didn't have tipping, the Australian economy is doing better than many others globally and there are still people to work in service industries who do a great job.

 

[Sorcerina]

I´m from Germany and there the service and taxes are almost included in the prices shown on the menu. (usually in whole Europe)
Usually you tip if the waiter is very good, otherwise you usually only round up the bill to the next € or if it was really bad, than you don´t tip at all.
That causes that you have the feeling that a lot of them don´t care, cause they get there money anyway.

 

[MSLRAC]

I didn't realize I was answering for everyone. I thought I was giving my opinion?

Where did I say you were speaking for everyone? I just quoted you, sorry! Dang some of you people take stuff way to literal! It was a generalized statement based on my personal observation.

 

[happygirl]

It's not the same thing at all. My boss HAS to pay me for hours worked. If I do a lousy job, he can fire me but he still has to pay me.

If I go out to eat, the waitress or waiter is rude, never checks up on us, etc it is NOT my responsibility to give them a tip. Their boss still has to pay them for their hours worked. It is NOT my job to pay someone. If the service is good, I can CHOOSE to give a tip.



I didn't realize I was answering for everyone. I thought I was giving my opinion?

When I server I look at it I work for the customers.

 

[Uncle Remus]

I´m from Germany and there the service and taxes are almost included in the prices shown on the menu. (usually in whole Europe)
Usually you tip if the waiter is very good, otherwise you usually only round up the bill to the next € or if it was really bad, than you don´t tip at all.
That causes that you have the feeling that a lot of them don´t care, cause they get there money anyway.

Just wanted to welcome you to the DIS!

 

[Carrie_Cat]

We don't tip here in bars, cafes, restaurants etc in France. We round up to the next € (and even then it depends on how you feel) or leave a couple of €s in exceptional cases but that's it

People get paid a minimum wage here of 11.65$ an hour and we pay already 12% service charge and 5,5% vat included in the bill

But when I go to places where they get paid really low wages (Mexico comes to mind) we do leave money for the maids and tip in restaurants as it's usual and cultural

 

[sam_gordon]

Okay, lets say your boss says, LuvCuteBoys makes really good money. She won't be upset if we don't pay her a week or two. Would that be okay with you. That what you want servers to do and be okat iwth that

That's not what anyone is advocating. People are talking about the "good" servers leaving if tips became truly optional. But let's look at today, right now. An average to below average waiter... someone who greets you, takes your order, gets it right, but has no personality, just does the bare bones to get the job done EXPECTS you to pay them more money. Why? As Eliza (I think) said, if I just do the bare minimum in my job, and I go to my boss at the end of the year and say "where's my 15% bonus"? What do you think he is going to say?

Think for a moment... WHY do you tip?

• Because the server doesn't get paid enough
• To make sure I get good service
• Because I'm expected to
• Because the server did a good job and I want to thank them

I don't know about anyone else, but most of my tips are because of #1-3. I'll occasionally get a #4, but that's rare. In my opinion, #4 should be the rule, not the exception.

 

[stargazer2892]

As a server I would love to see my actual wages increased, if only for the simple fact that the 2.43 an hour I get paid does not cover my taxes and I end up owing at the end of the year. Heck $5 an hour would be nice and not really pass much off on the patrons. I cant remember the last paycheck I received since every since penny goes to taxes. I do make good money, my average tip is 21%, I also bust my butt. It's my JOB to take care of the customer, it's what I CHOSE to do. It's not rocket science but it's in no way easy if you are a good server.
Would I stay in the restaurant business if I made minimum wage and no tips? No. I would go back to retail which is hard but much less stressful. IMHO.

 

[DeaverTex]

I HATE tipping "because it's expected". What gives the server the right to expect me to pay him/her for doing his/her job? That's the employer's responsibility, not mine.

Yes, of course I tip. I understand that the servers are being paid based on the expectation that I will leave a tip, and that isn't their fault, nor is there anything they can do to change it. I still think that's outrageous, dishonest, and cheap on the part of the owner/employer. I'd be perfectly willing to pay slightly higher prices to have tipping disappear...

...except as a way to reward exceptional service. That is what tipping is supposed to be about. It's something nice you do for your server, NOT something mandated from on high. The way it's done here in the US, it's a way to try to make ME feel guilty for an employer not paying employees decently, and I don't appreciate it.

I'll continue to tip because I understand how the servers are caught in the middle. But, a tip should be a bonus, not a right. Simple as that.

 

[mr.bungle]

I've often talked about this subject with people and the example I always bring up involves some of the best service I have ever received. Every employee at this restaurant was helpful, friendly, happy, and seemed to enjoy their job. This restaurant happens to pay every employee a fair living wage and does not use the tipping system. I truly believe that if you paid restaurant employees a fair wage and did away with tipping, the world would be a better place.

I never understood the whole "Tipping 15% lets them know they did a poor job and 20%+ tells them they did a good job." My wife is a former waitress who used to tell me that when she dined out and received truly bad service, she would leave her 2 cents, literally and she was a waitress herself! Tips of at least 15% are expected and when someone tips less than that because of poor service, the customer is all of the sudden the ******. I don't know the history of the tipping system or how it evolved into the monster it seems to be today.

All I know is that when I worked a low paying job making less than minimum wage per hour plus commission (very low % in a retail position) I was never tipped. Even when I would perform services free of charge (such as battery tests or tire pressure checks) and I did not make a commission, I was not tipped nor was it a thought in the customer's mind. So why do restaurant employees get tips?

That said, I do tend to tip well for good service especially at the places I frequent. I give into the system at places I return to because I feel like that is the only place where the system works. You tip well, they remember you on return visits and maybe go out of their way a bit for you. Ok, I'm done.

 

[luvmy3]

Okay, lets say your boss says, LuvCuteBoys makes really good money. She won't be upset if we don't pay her a week or two. Would that be okay with you. That what you want servers to do and be okat iwth that

Apples and oranges, servers aren't employed by the customer.

I have seen countless threads on Dis about ways to get out of the automatic 18% tip at WDW on parties of 6 or more. So I am not buying that everyone would just accept the tip be added and prices going up.

I hate the automatic gratuity for parties of X amount or more because I tip based on the service I get. If I happen to be with 5 other people, and you are a horrible server then IMO you don't deserve 18% and I shouldn't be made to pay it to you just because there are a bunch of people eating together. Having said that if an employer wants to pay their servers more, and raise the price of a meal to compensate, I don't care because I'm not leaving a tip based on service, I'm paying for my food, and the server is just doing the job they were hired for.

What should come to an end is mandatory tipping. It should be for good service.