Younger generation- spinoff

[Sinder]

I guess it makes perfect sense if you live in your own little bubble of what morals should be. If you don’t lie, cheat or steal and try to do right by other people but wear revealing clothes you’re a morally upright person by *my* standards. My younger DD’s group has mashed every bad, grungy fashion statement every conceived into some kind of franken style. Piercings, colored hair (usually un brushed), weird accessories. They also eschew gender norms and labels. As a group I’m sure they raise eyebrows but they are all damn good kids. First to jump into action if someone needs help and bringing “outcasts” into the fold. I’d argue anyone who judges them without knowing them are the ones who need to check their morals.

The thing about generalizations- they are done because nobody can know every single person of a group consisting of millions of people. What they can do is notice a change in how that group is compared to how the group they belong to is. Of course not every single person belonging to it is the exact same way, but enough of them are that the change is noticeable. There's even a whole field of study about it.
And yes, morals are subjective, people have different scales for what they think is morally right or wrong.

Personally I think people get way too offended and uptight about what other people think of them, or their kids generation. I really don't care, I know we (me and my kids) are all good people and that is all that matters. I also know there are plenty in each of our groups that do fit the generalizations and stereotypes of them.
Besides I also know that one day my kids will be the older generation clutching their pearls about the youngest one. And that younger generation will complain that they are being unfairly judged. This is nothing new and it isn't going to change. I choose to accept that and not let it get me bothered. YMMV.

 

[Mysterian]

In that previous thread I mentioned that there's really good and bad examples of any generation.

When you're a kid you generally think of adults as authority and assume they are right in every respect, and that they display ideal behavioral traits. Depending on your experience, you'll gradually learn that maturity is not exclusive to adulthood, nor does adulthood promise maturity. You see some adults do some stupid things, and you realize age doesn't always refine one's character.

It's ultimately not about age gap. The only dichotomy to be aware of is that there are either groovy people or goober-faced douchebags.

 

[jrmasm]

Um, woooow.

I think what a lot them are saying when they say, “Kids have no respect” is really “I don’t want younger people to express their opinion to me or disagree with me” if all the comments about “wokeness” and “cancel culture” that accompany that is anything to go by. Like I said a page back for some that feels threatening. Certainly the Boomer generation and to some extent even the Gen X generation kids were to be seen and not heard.

The no morals thing. I’m not even sure where that comes from unless it refers to the two things we are not allowed to discuss here on the DIS. If that’s the case, again it’s someone feeling threatened by a different point of view.

BTW I’m not insulted by anyone calling me “woke.” I’ll wear that like a badge.

I appreciate when people use the word woke. It’s always a pejorative and it really tells you who they are. It’s a public service really.

 

[tvguy]

If I had to put my finger to it I think what I've seen in the workplace is what was done before is shifting but is seen as bad.

You're always going to have people who just don't do their dang job and that is not exclusive to young people. It just isn't.

But from what you're talking about with training managers I see that in a completely different light. I see it as the status quo is changing but there's resistance to that. I think in the past there was a "I'm older you have to obey me without question" That mentality bleeds through so evidently I wonder if people even stop to think about it. Every time you see a story that begins with "and this 20 or 30 something" or "this young person" or "this kid" when they talk about an interaction. I see it here, I see it on FB, I see it on Nextdoor, I see it just people conversationally speaking. When people do this it's less about the actual interaction and more just about "I'm older than this person" The age of a person IME rarely has to do with the actual situation.

Even your comments (of which I'm not trying to be insulting or criticizing just using it as an example) when you used to speak about your coworkers it wasn't about having poor coworkers (of which I've had enough of those and they came from all different backgrounds and ages) but about "young" vs "older".

I'm not trying to excuse things but I do think a good amount of it has to do with adjusting that status quo.

You could be right. But the rub is, how do managers deal with the status quo, when the status quo is the task the person was hired to do and they don't want to do that task? I think at my former employer the other issue is the average age (and experience) of an employee has plunged due primarily to buyouts. We had 3 rounds in 13 years, anyone over age 55 (which seemed very young to me) who had worked for the company at least 15 years was offered 2 years pay and benefits to go away. I never qualified, because I did not have 15 years service when the offers came out. I was the odd bird who retired, and was not bought out. I think HR said the average age at our location went from 50 to 28 because of the buyouts.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You could be right. But the rub is, how do managers deal with the status quo, when the status quo is the task the person was hired to do and they don't want to do that task? I think at my former employer the other issue is the average age (and experience) of an employee has plunged due primarily to buyouts. We had 3 rounds in 13 years, anyone over age 55 (which seemed very young to me) who had worked for the company at least 15 years was offered 2 years pay and benefits to go away. I never qualified, because I did not have 15 years service when the offers came out. I was the odd bird who retired, and was not bought out. I think HR said the average age at our location went from 50 to 28 because of the buyouts.

That actually is sorta the point I was thinking about. There's an assumption that age=whatever. So for you you're looking at it that age means a better employee. It doesn't by the virtue of it. Experience counts for something but it also depends on how one uses that experience. I had some coworkers who because they were older they felt they didn't have to do their job to its fullest, to them they had the seniority, they had the experience so you know they could just float more.

One of the companies my husband's company was working with back in 2015 he had to be actually sent down there to babysit them. They were old school older group who didn't like to do things on the computer much when it came to designs and whatnot. They were missing deadlines, didn't feel like answering phone calls much or e-mails. The consequence is a just over mid-20s (at the time) sent down there to literally babysit them in the office, no getting away from someone who was actually in the office and could stop by and say "where's the power plant drawings?". But regardless my husband's age didn't matter. He'd been working for the company since he was 17, was studying to take his P.E. license (for which he passed), etc.

People of all various ages don't always want to do the work they were hired for. That said there's a good conversation to be had whether the work was adequately described in a job description. It did seem to be more common for companies to disguise the tasks and then someone hired suddenly found themselves doing the tasks of 3 people or their tasks were quite different than what was described. Right now that's a big topic of conversation with employment efforts because people are like "no I don't want to accept what was happening before" There's not really an excuse for some basic work tasks I'm just saying that doesn't mean it's young people who don't want to do that, this happens in all age groups.

The buyout thing happened to my mom as well sadly. She had worked for the company 3 months shy of 40 years.

 

[tvguy]

That actually is sorta the point I was thinking about. There's an assumption that age=whatever. So for you you're looking at it that age means a better employee. It doesn't by the virtue of it. Experience counts for something but it also depends on how one uses that experience. I had some coworkers who because they were older they felt they didn't have to do their job to its fullest, to them they had the seniority, they had the experience so you know they could just float more.

One of the companies my husband's company was working with back in 2015 he had to be actually sent down there to babysit them. They were old school older group who didn't like to do things on the computer much when it came to designs and whatnot. They were missing deadlines, didn't feel like answering phone calls much or e-mails. The consequence is a just over mid-20s (at the time) sent down there to literally babysit them in the office, no getting away from someone who was actually in the office and could stop by and say "where's the power plant drawings?". But regardless my husband's age didn't matter. He'd been working for the company since he was 17, was studying to take his P.E. license (for which he passed), etc.

People of all various ages don't always want to do the work they were hired for. That said there's a good conversation to be had whether the work was adequately described in a job description. It did seem to be more common for companies to disguise the tasks and then someone hired suddenly found themselves doing the tasks of 3 people or their tasks were quite different than what was described. Right now that's a big topic of conversation with employment efforts because people are like "no I don't want to accept what was happening before" There's not really an excuse for some basic work tasks I'm just saying that doesn't mean it's young people who don't want to do that, this happens in all age groups.

The buyout thing happened to my mom as well sadly. She had worked for the company 3 months shy of 40 years.

Substitute "younger" for "older" above and that was my experience the last 5 years or so of my career. But, TV News is one of those odd jobs with what many would be considered to be unreasonable expectations, especially when it comes to deadlines. If your task is for the 5 pm news, the 5pm news starts at 5:00:00 and if your task isn't completed until 5:10......or in some cases 5:00:10......your entire work day was a waste.

 

[dez1978]

Got it. I wasn’t focused on marketing at all.

I was thinking more of the post that said everyone between ages 20-30 have no morals. Such an awful thing to say! And so insulting to Disers of that age group.

I have posted on that thread too. I have not seen one single post that said "everyone" or "no one" I didn't see anything that said there is no one in that age group with morals. There is a difference between saying in general the morals in that age group are lacking vs no one in that age has morals. Or saying that the work ethic in that generation is lacking vs everyone in that age group lacks work ethics. What people are getting at is in their opinion, there is a difference in work ethic as seen from their point of view from when they were that age to the group that is that age now. No one said that everyone between 20-30 are lazy moraless people. But when you have a group as large as this there will be those who do think in absolutes. You cannot deny there is a difference in how say boomers and gen z act both in their attitudes towards work and with how they treat others. Some of that is good and some is bad. Just as you show a lot of disdain towards older people in your posts on there, older generations do the same towards younger ones.

 

[BrianL]

Young people have terrible taste in everything - I mean, just look at music for proof! It's only gotten worse with each successive generation and will never again be as good as it was when I was a kid.



That's a joke, people - stay calm. It is however totally true, but jokes can be true.

 

[CdnCarrie]

You could be right. But the rub is, how do managers deal with the status quo, when the status quo is the task the person was hired to do and they don't want to do that task? I think at my former employer the other issue is the average age (and experience) of an employee has plunged due primarily to buyouts. We had 3 rounds in 13 years, anyone over age 55 (which seemed very young to me) who had worked for the company at least 15 years was offered 2 years pay and benefits to go away. I never qualified, because I did not have 15 years service when the offers came out. I was the odd bird who retired, and was not bought out. I think HR said the average age at our location went from 50 to 28 because of the buyouts.

Sorry I have no idea. it's never been an issue to my knowledge in my department. I can't speak for the entire institution.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Young people have terrible taste in everything - I mean, just look at music for proof! It's only gotten worse with each successive generation and will never again be as good as it was when I was a kid.



That's a joke, people - stay calm. It is however totally true, but jokes can be true.

Well I'm in a rut still listening to my 80s music so I can't comment much - Wham! and Tiffany are calling for me...

 

[CdnCarrie]

I have posted on that thread too. I have not seen one single post that said "everyone" or "no one" I didn't see anything that said there is no one in that age group with morals. There is a difference between saying in general the morals in that age group are lacking vs no one in that age has morals. Or saying that the work ethic in that generation is lacking vs everyone in that age group lacks work ethics. What people are getting at is in their opinion, there is a difference in work ethic as seen from their point of view from when they were that age to the group that is that age now. No one said that everyone between 20-30 are lazy moraless people. But when you have a group as large as this there will be those who do think in absolutes. You cannot deny there is a difference in how say boomers and gen z act both in their attitudes towards work and with how they treat others. Some of that is good and some is bad. Just as you show a lot of disdain towards older people in your posts on there, older generations do the same towards younger ones.

What I was doing is using hyperbole language (tongue in check) comments to respond to the comments. I'm in my 50s so I'm pretty old myself. If I was disdaining older people in my posts it would include myself.

As I said in my original post it's not just here but in some historical FB groups I'm on. I despise when people there go on bashing young people in discussions about playing outside, walking to school, etc. It's not necessary. Sorry but it's a huge pet peeve of mine and I'm sure you have pet peeves of your own.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Substitute "younger" for "older" above and that was my experience the last 5 years or so of my career. But, TV News is one of those odd jobs with what many would be considered to be unreasonable expectations, especially when it comes to deadlines. If your task is for the 5 pm news, the 5pm news starts at 5:00:00 and if your task isn't completed until 5:10......or in some cases 5:00:10......your entire work day was a waste.

That's why I tend to stay more in the middle. I think sometimes it's just a personality thing. I think sometimes the age gets too much of the focus when there are times you can clearly see it as a person thing not a "you're a ___" thing. That's why I gave the example I did. For every story of "young people these days" you can probably find "older people these days"

You're right that there are positions out there where the tasks that come with the territory would be not necessarily the case elsewhere so different work environments do matter.

 

[dez1978]

That’s not happening here. Maybe it’s a California thing? Don’t know what else to tell you
The 20 year olds I know all have great jobs (nurse, banking, teaching) have bought condos . Started families.
And trust me my 25 old niece was working her buns off as a nurse the last 2 years!
Sorry but I’m just not seeing what you are seeing.
My 19 year old is working 7 days straight this week. So no shirking here. He works physical labour.

To be fair, after telling him that personal experiences aren't blanket statements (or something like that) you just did the same thing.

You could be right. But the rub is, how do managers deal with the status quo, when the status quo is the task the person was hired to do and they don't want to do that task? I think at my former employer the other issue is the average age (and experience) of an employee has plunged due primarily to buyouts. We had 3 rounds in 13 years, anyone over age 55 (which seemed very young to me) who had worked for the company at least 15 years was offered 2 years pay and benefits to go away. I never qualified, because I did not have 15 years service when the offers came out. I was the odd bird who retired, and was not bought out. I think HR said the average age at our location went from 50 to 28 because of the buyouts.

You fire them. If you hired someone to do a task and they won't do it, you fire them. It's pretty simple isn't it?

Now having said all the things I've said, one of the things I've noticed being Gen X (barely not an X lol) is that we tend to agree with a few things from every generation. There are things I hear boomers say that I agree with, there are things I hear Zs say I also agree with. I don't think any one generation is all good or all bad. Or that every person in a generation shares the same traits. So just because I feel that this person has no morals, it doesn't mean I think all the people in that group are the same. I will say that I feel that younger generations seem to use (for lack of a better term) their morals differently than older generations. For example, boomers seem to think that showing respect for their elders means no matter what the elder person does you treat them with respect even if they are undeserving. While younger generations are more like yes, Elders will be treated with respect until they've proven they are undeserving of that respect. That doesn't mean they don't have morals, just that they are applied differently. And I think on threads like that one where people say someone has no morals what they really should be saying is that their morals are different than mine or applied differently. And it's ok to disagree with someones morals or how they apply them. We don't all have to have the same morals.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And I think on threads like that one where people say someone has no morals what they really should be saying is that their morals are different than mine or applied differently.

I'm still trying to figure out what they meant by that. I'm not sure if they will ever respond. But were they talking about politics (which ok we can't talk about much here), were they talking about someone's sexual orientation or identity (which can and can not be talked about here just depends on what is being said) or more or less acceptance towards others, were they talking about their religious affiliation (which ok we can't talk about much here), were they talking about the way they dress or the words they use? What were they talking about? Morality has plenty of different parts to it. It's honestly hard for me to even form an opinion about the type of person they are if I don't know what exactly they are talking about. Some things I have zero tolerance for other things I just disagree but understand where someone is coming from. But lack of knowing just what morals the 20s and 30 year olds are lacking I can't do that. But the post got enough likes so maybe it's just me not getting it

 

[CdnCarrie]

Now having said all the things I've said, one of the things I've noticed being Gen X (barely not an X lol) is that we tend to agree with a few things from every generation. There are things I hear boomers say that I agree with, there are things I hear Zs say I also agree with. I don't think any one generation is all good or all bad. Or that every person in a generation shares the same traits. So just because I feel that this person has no morals, it doesn't mean I think all the people in that group are the same. I will say that I feel that younger generations seem to use (for lack of a better term) their morals differently than older generations. For example, boomers seem to think that showing respect for their elders means no matter what the elder person does you treat them with respect even if they are undeserving. While younger generations are more like yes, Elders will be treated with respect until they've proven they are undeserving of that respect. That doesn't mean they don't have morals, just that they are applied differently. And I think on threads like that one where people say someone has no morals what they really should be saying is that their morals are different than mine or applied differently. And it's ok to disagree with someones morals or how they apply them. We don't all have to have the same morals.

Now this I'm agreement with. You have some very compelling points.

 

[tvguy]

You fire them. If you hired someone to do a task and they won't do it, you fire them. It's pretty simple isn't it?

Now having said all the things I've said, one of the things I've noticed being Gen X (barely not an X lol) is that we tend to agree with a few things from every generation. There are things I hear boomers say that I agree with, there are things I hear Zs say I also agree with. I don't think any one generation is all good or all bad. Or that every person in a generation shares the same traits. So just because I feel that this person has no morals, it doesn't mean I think all the people in that group are the same. I will say that I feel that younger generations seem to use (for lack of a better term) their morals differently than older generations. For example, boomers seem to think that showing respect for their elders means no matter what the elder person does you treat them with respect even if they are undeserving. While younger generations are more like yes, Elders will be treated with respect until they've proven they are undeserving of that respect. That doesn't mean they don't have morals, just that they are applied differently. And I think on threads like that one where people say someone has no morals what they really should be saying is that their morals are different than mine or applied differently. And it's ok to disagree with someones morals or how they apply them. We don't all have to have the same morals.

Of course now with the labor shortage, you fire someone, you just increase the workload on those who are willing to do a little more than their job because you can't find replacements. You are going a whole lot deeper than I am when you get into morals. My beef is with those who were hired for a task, things that were spelled out in the job ad, and when they get the job, they say "no, I'm not going to do that". In my former industry this time of the year usually increases that because we don't get holidays off. It is clearly spelled out in the ad, but I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone just out of school say "I thought nobody works Thanksgiving and Christmas". Now that I am retired this will be my first Thanksgiving off in 42 years.

 

[luvsvacation]

It is human nature to feel you did things “right” and feel that anyone doing them differently now is “wrong”. It’s also human nature to look back on your own memories and your own “time” as the best. That’s why this will ALWAYS continue. As each new generation comes of age they will always find issue with the new generation.

I’m in my mid 40s and I first started working in childcare in my late teens. I studied early childhood education in college and worked as a nanny in my early 20s before having my own kids and being a stay at home mom. I went back to work as a nanny 5 years ago as my children had gotten older. Let me tell you that I now fully understand where the grandmas are coming from who are saying things like well back in my day we didn’t do that and the kids were all fine I’ve made it to that point in my life where some of the “new” things get giant internal eye rolls from me. Last year I had a very unexpected pregnancy that sadly ended in a miscarriage (not shocking given my age) but I had already determined to raise that new baby exactly the same as mine who were born in 02 and 03. How are we even to a place where moms of kids born after 2000 are now the old ones with old fashioned ideas?? I’m still back thinking I’m 22 and worried about Y2K

 

[BroadwayHermione5]

It’s not new for older people to criticize younger people. It’s an age old hobby.

but why do we accept older people saying blanket statements about our children? Why is this acceptable in our society?

I’m active in a local FB historical group and I’m constantly annoyed at comments about “young people this” “ young people that” with derogatory statements. We can reminisce without bringing down other people.
Every generation is unique, awesome and has something to offer.

Why do we want to put down entire groups of people based on when they were born?

Of course we all know that Gen X rocks and is the best generation!

I agree. I also think we need to start holding ourselves and other accountable more as well. As a millennial who is constantly mislabeled (people the youngest millennials are in their late 20s, stop blaming the things the under 18 crowd does on us), people don’t realize that basic Newtown principle “every action has an equal and opposite reaction”. Billy Joel was absolutely right when he wrote “We Didn’t Start the fire”…..it will always go on and on and on. There is always something a younger generation has and doesn’t have that was directly caused by something that happened to an older generation, which most likely was due to something an older generation than them caused. I know it wasn’t my fault a global pandemic hit, but could I have been more prepared financially? Yes. But also because of the actions of others things turned out differently, things that were completely out of my control.
It’s always this blame game. It’s very frustrating.

 

[Colleen27]

You could be right. But the rub is, how do managers deal with the status quo, when the status quo is the task the person was hired to do and they don't want to do that task? I think at my former employer the other issue is the average age (and experience) of an employee has plunged due primarily to buyouts. We had 3 rounds in 13 years, anyone over age 55 (which seemed very young to me) who had worked for the company at least 15 years was offered 2 years pay and benefits to go away. I never qualified, because I did not have 15 years service when the offers came out. I was the odd bird who retired, and was not bought out. I think HR said the average age at our location went from 50 to 28 because of the buyouts.

I think that in itself causes some of the problems that get blamed on "young workers these days" - aggressive buyouts strip workplaces of potential mentors and the people who would be willing and able to share their expertise, and then young workers are blamed for not knowing how to keep up in a more-with-less atmosphere with little guidance.

My experience is in print journalism, not TV, but new hires at both of the papers I've worked for are just thrown into the deep end without any senior staff around to show them the ropes, give them tips on how to manage their time (a huge issue, since the job pays for 40 hours but is extremely hard to do within that time), etc. I lasted three years in my first position out of college, longer than the last three people to have the job before me or the one who came after, and in that time I frequently heard my EIC complain about new reporters not managing their time well, not knowing how to prioritize "be in two places at once" situations... but those are skills that are learned on the job, and when there are no senior reporters left and remote work is the norm, new hires don't get the on-the-job lessons that previous generations did. So they're left to reinvent the wheel and if they don't do it fast enough or well enough, they're judged for that.