Would you let a principal know if one of her teachers told the kids...

[lillygator]

And do music teachers tell students where babies come from?

well if they are talking about santa I wouldn't say it is too far of a stretch.

 

[castleview]

If you don't want anyone that your 10 year old child may come in contact with tell them the real story behind Santa Claus, you shold invest in a very large bubble. I am always complaining that schools treat our kids like babies, I mean my 6th grader still has projects that involve crayons, but this thread has shown me exactly why. I honestly can't wrap my brain around someone considering going to see the teacher or even worse the prinicpal over something like this, no matter what age. The whole world doesnt need to keep your secret, its your responsibility to figure out a way to deal with the questions that come up when your child hears the truth, and my goodness if your child is 10 and still believes and you haven't figured out how to dance around it by then, thats your problem.
Also, what about the kids that don't believe in Santa (because the know the truth, or because they don't celebrate), they aren't allowed to be educated because so and so still does believes, thats just ridiculous.

Where have I said that I didn't want my kid in contact with anyone telling the real story of Santa? It's perfectly normal for kids to hear it from other kids - I did and DD heard it and wondered. The teacher was the final straw, of course. My problem is with this teacher telling the kids. As far as kids who don't believe, I told DD that it's good manners to not try and kill others' beliefs - imaginary or religious.

 

[Tinijocaro]

Maybe illegal is too strong of a word. We are absolutely not allowed to grade based on behavior. A teacher can not randomly give a grade-evidence must be shown as to how that grade was figured. Participation can be part of a grade-for example, a teacher can say that tests are worth a certain percentage, quizzes and homework are worth a certain percentage, participation is worth a certain percentage. This stuff is usually outlined in a syllabus at the beginning of the year and shouldn't be a surprise. Behavior should not be factored in at all, except maybe in the comments section.

I'd be requesting a meeting with teacher to see the evidence of how that grade was arrived at, and if it didn't add up, I'd be meeting with the principal. Random grades-not cool at all.

Really? It's illegal? I guess that might be so, I've never even thought of it. I guess I don't think that classroom behavior *shouldn't* be considered and actually am not against teachers having a participation aspect to their grading (like does the student show up in class, do they participate in discussions, etc...) The cherry on top of this particular sundae is that the teacher in question is capricious in their decisions and also isn't averse to heavily crafting the actual truth, though they did tell the student when the student asked that the quarter grade was dropped to teach the class a lesson...

agnes!

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

Hey, hey, I resent that statement. In my college-level art classes, crayons were the featured medium in some of the projects/artwork that was being done.

Hahaha, I was just going to say the same thing!

Some students do better and can achieve a better grade when told to draw something with crayons and be crafty with expressing what they have to say, as opposed to taking a test. Gardner's Multiple Intelligences

 

[robinb]

My problem is with this teacher telling the kids.

So, what are you going to do about it?

 

[luvmy3]

Where have I said that I didn't want my kid in contact with anyone telling the real story of Santa? It's perfectly normal for kids to hear it from other kids - I did and DD heard it and wondered. The teacher was the final straw, of course. My problem is with this teacher telling the kids. As far as kids who don't believe, I told DD that it's good manners to not try and kill others' beliefs - imaginary or religious.

A teacher is there to educate, not propogate un-truths. If the topic of mythical characters comes up in class, especially a 4th grade class, I wouldn't expect the teacher to not include Santa Claus in that discussion. It would be a whole other matter if when the kids sat down the teacher just made a general announcement that Santa does not exist, but from your OP I got the impression that they were discussing mythical characters/creatures and Santa in fact is. It has nothing to do with killing someone's belief, it has to do with education. If you feel your child's education should be filled with half truths, or hidden truths then home school so you can pick and choose what topics to cover. The other kids in the class shouldn't miss out in information because someone's parent is worried that their child's imaginary belief will be ruined, again thats just ridiculous.
I'm sure that the music teacher could have omitted anything about Santa in his discussion, but seriously at the age of 10 there are parents that think he should have I'm sure he felt the content was in line with the age and maturity of his students, and to go to speak with him or the principal becasuse he may have crushed the imaginary dream of a 4th grader is a bit over the top IMO.

I recently had the pleasure of sitting in the back of the bus with my ds's 4th grade class. I assure you that 4th graders are way more knowledgable and mature than we give them credit for. Sure there may be a select few that aren't (my ds is one of them, who still did believe in Santa at Christmas) but from what I witnessed and heard, they are pretty capable of handling the truth at that age.

 

[agnes!]

Maybe illegal is too strong of a word. We are absolutely not allowed to grade based on behavior. A teacher can not randomly give a grade-evidence must be shown as to how that grade was figured. Participation can be part of a grade-for example, a teacher can say that tests are worth a certain percentage, quizzes and homework are worth a certain percentage, participation is worth a certain percentage. This stuff is usually outlined in a syllabus at the beginning of the year and shouldn't be a surprise. Behavior should not be factored in at all, except maybe in the comments section.

I'd be requesting a meeting with teacher to see the evidence of how that grade was arrived at, and if it didn't add up, I'd be meeting with the principal. Random grades-not cool at all.

You sound like one of the good guys and your administration sounds like they're on top of things. I thank God every day for the good guys...the funny/brilliant Physics teacher, the amazing Latin teacher, the hard (AND fair) Math teacher from a previous year, all the ones who care.

And I'd kind of like to request a meeting with someone, but as the student in question says "[This teacher] is insane". Sadly, I don't disagree with this assessment and I also don't see how a meeting would make the situation any better. Besides this particular teacher blithely said "Oh, this won't make any difference in your final grade" and I wouldn't put it above them to fudge things even more than they have...they already capriciously did that in dropping the entire class's grades by one letter for the quarter with no warning (plus they never send out or give their students progress reports during the quarter, so *no-one* knew there was any kind of issue).

I'm sure they think they've done nothing wrong and that they'll just somehow talk their way out of this.

Back to the OP -
The damage, such as it is, has been done. Maybe a short meeting with the teacher might make you feel better for future innocents in this teacher's classroom, but I would not go to the principal.
Many years ago, when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, I found out in second grade. From the teacher.


agnes!

 

[luvmy3]

Hahaha, I was just going to say the same thing!

Some students do better and can achieve a better grade when told to draw something with crayons and be crafty with expressing what they have to say, as opposed to taking a test. Gardner's Multiple Intelligences

That may be the case, but I am talking about a 6th grade English class and if there are student in that class that need to draw pictures instead of taking a test where they should be answering essay questions, then they dont belong in that class, but thats a whole other thread.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I think, in the end, the suggestions to have a short conversation with the teacher is probably the best route. It's never inappropriate to talk to your child's teacher if something they have done has bothered you. In fact, most teachers welcome the parental interaction (although it sounds like this teacher may not).

Anyway, stuff like this always does hit home a little bit. I hated having to come to grips with the Santa thing, I was a child who had a very (over)active imagination, but I'm glad it was my parents who eventually shattered that image. Although, like I said earlier, they did a bad job explaining because, at 33, I still believe!

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

That may be the case, but I am talking about a 6th grade English class and if there are student in that class that need to draw pictures instead of taking a test where they should be answering essay questions, then they dont belong in that class, but thats a whole other thread.

Why should they NOT be included in that class? I know *I* perform better when asked to be creative and craft something than when given a test.

 

[shortbun]

No. I wouldn't. The man didn't lie to the kids. There IS no such thing as Santa. I can't imagine getting a teacher in trouble over the this.

Yeah, I think it's ok. I'd let some other parent tell the story.

 

[Planogirl]

Why should they NOT be included in that class? I know *I* perform better when asked to be creative and craft something than when given a test.

Maybe because drawing has nothing to do with English?

As for the other matter, I hope that the OP talks to the teacher and not the principal. I don't care who's friends with who, this is a lame reason to get a teacher in trouble.

 

[princessmom29]

If we were talking about preschool ti would be different, but 10 year olds should have gotten it by now. I don't think you should "tell on" the teacher. He is doing his job by porviding factual information on an oral tradition. Nothing at all wrong with that. Santa is in fact an oral tradition borrowed from Europe.

 

[eliza61]

No I wouldn't. with all the millions of things I want my principal to worry about, Santa clause is waay down on the list.

2) if you're kid still believes you could come up very easily with a plausable excuse to tell your kid.

 

[stashbin]

I'd be mad that an adult ruined it for my kid, but I think I would just tell the teacher I was mad. I wouldn't bother the principal with it.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

No offense intended, but if I were a principal and a parent brought this to me, my opinion of the parent would suffer, and I would warn the teacher about the parent.

Just sayin'...

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

Maybe because drawing has nothing to do with English?

As for the other matter, I hope that the OP talks to the teacher and not the principal. I don't care who's friends with who, this is a lame reason to get a teacher in trouble.

In 8th grade honors English I had to create (yes color/draw use any kind of medium I wanted) my own greek goddess/god and make up a story about the god/goddess (what he/she did, lived, creation, etc) when we read the odyssey. See how it could be incorporated into the curriculum?

 

[princessmom29]

No offense intended, but if I were a principal and a parent brought this to me, my opinion of the parent would suffer, and I would warn the teacher about the parent.

Just sayin'...

Me too.

 

[luvmy3]

In 8th grade honors English I had to create (yes color/draw use any kind of medium I wanted) my own greek goddess/god and make up a story about the god/goddess (what he/she did, lived, creation, etc) when we read the odyssey. See how it could be incorporated into the curriculum?

There's nothing wrong with it being incorporated into the ELA curriculum once in a while, however every month my dd has more art project and less writing project due for ELA, and thats too much for her grade level. They need to learn how to write creatively using proper grammar and sharpen their writing skills as the year progresses, they do not need to know how to make a model of a Greek Goddess, that can be done in art. You also mentioned something about testing, and arts and crafts has no business being incorporated into an English Language Arts test for 6th grade students who are trying to prepare for junior high. If you are a student who does better at that kind of "test" or you can't do the expected written work in that class then I would argue that you do not belong in a class where that is (or in our school's case, should) be expected of you, you would do much better in a lower level with an IEP.

Just curious, how many of those type projects did you do throughout your 8th grade honors ELA class?

 

[luvsJack]

Ok, let's rephrase this, if MY child came up to anyone here on the boards and said "Is Santa Real?" What would you say?

I would say, "what do you think". If a child is not ready to hear the truth, they will usually say "I think he is real". If they really are confused, you can usually head them in the way they wanted to go in the first place. It really should be up to the child when to let go of this particular fantasy.




Why is it that every time this subject it is some kind of huge debate? Why does there have to be all this "teacher's don't have to help with the lie" type of attitude?

The OP wasn't even asking about the teacher telling HER child, she said she was concerned about younger kids. And she wasn't complaining to the principal, just going to comment or shoot a "might want to head this off" kind of thing to a friend. And I would say it depends on just how friendly the OP is with the principal. If you and she have lunch togther and are real buddies and you can say "hey, just wanted to give you a head's up. . ."; then there is nothing wrong with that.

As for what is and is not a teacher's responsiblity, you know what? Teachers do have a responsiblity to the kids, it is just part of the job. And part of that is allowing them to BE kids. If you teach under a certain age, you will have kids that believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy and Mickey Mouse and rather than causing undue stress or upset for the child, they should find a way to leave all of these out of any discussion or a way around it so that its not sqaushing their belief. It can be done, I know because I have done it.

When a teacher becomes a teacher he/she will just have to accept that there are some things that WILL become within the scope of their responsiblity that may or may not be exactly about educating. Just like any other job is going to, at some point, include things that are not exactly part of a person's job description. IMHO, when you choose to work with children you choose to take on these responsiblities.

Oh, and coloring? We have a college A & P class that uses a color book. And there are reasons for using colors and drawing to express something, the written word is not the only way.