Would you let a principal know if one of her teachers told the kids...

[luvmy3]

You may not think it was wrong of him to "educate" 4th graders about the truth of Santa, but some parents would think it was very wrong. He is working with a large number of students from just as many families so he needs to be aware of that. He should think before he speaks. It is not the music teacher's place to "educate" about this particular subject. He was talking about leperchauns and should have left the discussion at that. Anyone working with this age kid should be aware that they are all at different places developmentally and some may still be hanging on to what some believe to be childish things (they are, afterall, children). He should respect that. Its not like the belief or nonbelief of Santa is a required skill in 4th grade music.

I don't prescribe to the belief that a teacher's knowledge and education should only reflect the subject they teach. If the class is studying/singing a song about mythilogical creatures and his students question him, I would hope he was willing to educate them with a general lesson. How sad it would be if a teacher was not allowed to discuss anything other than the subject they teach. We just disagree, I respect that some teachers have a vast knowledge of may subjects and are willing to share that with their students. I hope they would keep it age appropriate and in this case I believe he did, and you don't. I have a 9 year old 4th grader (who does still believe, I think) and I wouldn't have an issue if he was sitting in that class.

I will take you along to meet or watch him and you'll get it in just a few minutes.

Regarding the first bolded part - I also have two younger kids in the school so my concerns are personal.

As far as my relationship with the principal goes, I have known her since we were college age. We eventually went our own ways and it was quite amusing that we've caught up again. Currently I'm the P&R director in our town and the school is considered the community building (after hours of course). But since school functions take priority and afterschool programs are part of our offerings, I meet with her once a week to discuss room availability, transporting the kids, procedures, etc. While I'm there, we also talk about the school since I'm a parent of three there. She has done a great job turning the school around and is very adamant about a home-parent-school connection. She often asks if I've heard of any concerns or wants amongst parents she usually doesn't see or wishes would be more involved. She asks because she wants to address it and keep the place moving forward. There are many people besides myself that she speaks to about this. Basically, she's a communicator. I've never complained about a teacher to her, which should tell you a lot regarding my feelings toward the music teacher.

Regarding the second bolded part, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I've said it many times that I don't believe it is his job to educate my kids on certain things - this is one of them. Do I think he did it because he's mean? No. I think he did it because he wasn't thinking...which is a recurring theme with this man. I guarantee if I mentioned it to any of my kid's classroom teachers, they would roll their eyes and not be surprised.

Either way, I'm probably going to do nothing. But my patience and confidence with this guy has worn very thin.

I think if you have an issue with the fact that he let the cat out of the bag, by all means talk to him about it. However, since I don't believe he did anything inappropriate, IMO it doesn't warrant a complaint to the principal. I also don't believe any parent should be complaining about what a teacher may, or could say in another class IF it has not happened in that class. As it stands now, he hasn't said that to your younger kids, why would you complain that he might. Could you imagine what it would be like if every parent called the principal with complaints about things that haven't happened, and may never happen.

I don't know you but from your posts it just sounds like you have no respect for this teacher and you are looking for something about him to complain about and if I was the principal friend (and heard your previous comments about him) I probably wouldn't take this complaint very serious if you came to me in a proferssional capacity.

 

[castleview]

Where's the indication that the teacher had - or has EVER had - a similar lesson with students in earlier grades?

The OP obviously has a bias against this teacher - he's dense, he's in his own world, he speaks without thinking, and in a lesson/discussion about mythical characters he had the audacity to compare leprechauns to Santa. Yet he can apparently transmit thoughts and ideas clearly, and he has the intelligence to have obtained a college degree - and to continue whatever education is necessary to maintain his teaching certification.

No, I don't think she should 'mention' it to her friend the principal as part of a friendly converstation. That's taking advantage, and it's vindictive and frankly, childish. I don't think it should be addressed to school officials AT ALL. If she feels truly compelled to say anything to him in the course of normal encounters, it should be nonaccusatory.

I think we know many an aloof person who made it through college. Although I should be happy he's actually talking with the class - he's already been reprimanded for showing too many movies. Even though I will let this fade, I don't see how being honest and caring about my kid's and the community's school is childish and vindictive.

 

[castleview]

I don't know you but from your posts it just sounds like you have no respect for this teacher and you are looking for something about him to complain about and if I was the principal friend (and heard your previous comments about him) I probably wouldn't take this complaint very serious if you came to me in a proferssional capacity.

Yes, I find it difficult to respect this teacher but typically I don't care. Music is not my thing. I was not looking for something to complain about, he just gave it to me. By simply reading the posts you and I have written, it's obvious people have different opinions on the whole Santa thing and whether an adult should be involved in delivering the real deal. He should be aware of that too, don't you think?

 

[castleview]

Seriously?

• Virtually enslaves elves, contributes to low self-esteem making them feel that because of their sizes they can't get other jobs; forces them to work around the clock, 364 days a year, for just room and board and uniforms... and keeps them stuck up there at the north pole with no entertainment, no alternatives.
• Abuses animals AND shows extreme favoritism.
• Works one night a year.
• Extortion - recipients of purported 'generosity' are expected to behave a certain way
• Bribery - same recipients traditional expected to provide Santa Claus with refreshment in exchange for so-called 'gifts' (etiquette note: "gift", by definition, is freely given with no expectation of getting anything in return)
• Breaking and entering - obtains entry to residences via extremely atypical methods.
• Discriminates based on religion in direct violation of United States (and, likely, many other countries') laws.
• Violates speed limits regularly.

THIS is your "cute and innocent" figure?

Good Lord, someone more cynical than I am. I certainly hope you didn't agree with Disney's retelling of the Pocahontas story.

 

[jojogana]

I would be very upset. Its not his place to ruin a childs imagination. Think about it, most kids when there is some topic like this brought up in school, older kids have a tendancy to tell little kids because they think its funny to make them cry or feel since a teacher put it out in open discussion they can too in lunch room or school yard.


my good friends DS10 asked me about it on our way to my house (spent the night with my DS) i told him that that is something he needed to talk to his parents about and told him my kids believe in santa. I was NOT going to crush his dreams and tell him the truth because it wasn't my place. i called his dad as soon as i got home and they had the talk about it the next day. As they told him the truth they told them how important it was for him to keep it a secret.

when my kids question it I will be the one to tell them but I hope no one does it before they question it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

You have put quite a bit of thought into this .

Thanks, but not really. Ten minutes, tops

Did I tell you I'm taking a class in stand-up comedy? I guess I've just written this week's homework!

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

Seriously?

• Virtually enslaves elves, contributes to low self-esteem making them feel that because of their sizes they can't get other jobs; forces them to work around the clock, 364 days a year, for just room and board and uniforms... and keeps them stuck up there at the north pole with no entertainment, no alternatives.
• Abuses animals AND shows extreme favoritism.
• Works one night a year.
• Extortion - recipients of purported 'generosity' are expected to behave a certain way
• Bribery - same recipients traditional expected to provide Santa Claus with refreshment in exchange for so-called 'gifts' (etiquette note: "gift", by definition, is freely given with no expectation of getting anything in return)
• Breaking and entering - obtains entry to residences via extremely atypical methods.
• Discriminates based on religion in direct violation of United States (and, likely, many other countries') laws.
• Violates speed limits regularly.

THIS is your "cute and innocent" figure?

please tell me you are joking b/c I cannot take that seriously. Enslavement of elves?

 

[castleview]

Thanks, but not really. Ten minutes, tops

Did I tell you I'm taking a class in stand-up comedy? I guess I've just written this week's homework!

A class in this? How's that structured?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Good Lord, someone more cynical than I am. I certainly hope you didn't agree with Disney's retelling of the Pocahontas story.

Poca-who?

No, it was just a humorous response to a specific question.

 

[kaytieeldr]

please tell me you are joking b/c I cannot take that seriously. Enslavement of elves?

BIG time joking. Truly. The question I quoted just 'begged' the response I gave. Not deserved it in any way - the post, the one line actually, was just phrased in a way that got my brain activated. Naturally I'm not serious; I'm probably not even original

 

[luvmy3]

A class in this? How's that structured?

I bet there are plenty of the crushing of childhood dreams, and crayon use in that class without complaints

 

[kaytieeldr]

A class in this? How's that structured?

One session of the instructor explaining different joke structures and sources, and thought processes, and class interaction.
Homework assignment applying what we learned into a five minute comedy act.
Practice act in front of class.
Get critiqued.
Homework assignment rewriting/refining act.
Practice act in front of class.
Get critiqued.
Repeat three-four more times.
Perform in public.
Return to 'normal' lives.

 

[castleview]

I bet there are plenty of the crushing of childhood dreams, and crayon use in that class without complaints

You may be onto something. Perhaps stand up comedy is therapy for those of us whose childhood dreams were smashed.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I bet there are plenty of the crushing of childhood dreams, and crayon use in that class without complaints

Dang! If I use crayons, I can SEE my notes! Thanks, luvmy3!

 

[disfan07]

Yeah...so..this whole santa thing
I hate to admit it but....

I was that little 3rd grader who told a classmate that santa wasnt real.

Now..i did not do it on purpose....I was 8 and I had been getting crud all year from this one girl because we had to do a family tree project and it was known that my dad is catholic and my mom is jewish. Well, for 4 months, i dealt with this girl saying that i wasnt really jewish or I wasnt as jewish as my friends (both their parents were jewish....we were the only 3 who were jewish in a class of 140). Finally, during hanukkah, she came up to me at lunch and said that hanukkah wasn't a real holiday. We made it up because we can't celebrate christmas liek everyone else. I was fed up at that point, So, I looked at her straight in teh eye and said "so..santa isn't real" and went back to eating my lunch. Now, I will admit...i didn't feel bad about it then adn I have never felt bad about it. This girl was a real witch adn she was the same girl who 4 years later in 6th grade said that teh holocaust never really happened...so i think she deserevd it.

BUT, obviously now at 20, i know better than to say something liek that. I would never say that to any of the kids i work with or babysit. DO i expect that a teacher would have more common sense than to tell a kid that? Yes. Do i think it is worth going to teh principal over? No

I am curious though...do you know what other parents think about what happened??

 

[Toad_Passenger]

BIG time joking. Truly. The question I quoted just 'begged' the response I gave. Not deserved it in any way - the post, the one line actually, was just phrased in a way that got my brain activated. Naturally I'm not serious; I'm probably not even original

You completely forgot the incident where he and his reindeer ran over someone's Grandma.

 

[luvsJack]

I don't prescribe to the belief that a teacher's knowledge and education should only reflect the subject they teach. If the class is studying/singing a song about mythilogical creatures and his students question him, I would hope he was willing to educate them with a general lesson. How sad it would be if a teacher was not allowed to discuss anything other than the subject they teach. We just disagree, I respect that some teachers have a vast knowledge of may subjects and are willing to share that with their students. I hope they would keep it age appropriate and in this case I believe he did, and you don't. I have a 9 year old 4th grader (who does still believe, I think) and I wouldn't have an issue if he was sitting in that class.

You have a funny way of picking and choosing what you believe to be a teacher's responsibility or not when they have children in their charge. I don't have a problem with a teacher going outside the scope of their subject, as long as they have the necessary knowledge to teach the lesson.

If he cannot figure out a way to teach a lesson about mythological creatures without touching Santa, then he needs to take a class in mythological creatures. There are plenty that he could use as an example without going into something that may or may not be a touchy subject for some families. If I can teach 4 year olds about what is real and what is not real without ever mentioning Santa, EB, the tooth fairy or any character they may see in a costume at any theme park around the world; I think he should certainly be able to teach a lesson on this using another example.

I wouldn't have found it a big deal for my child either, but I am not the parent of every child in that class and neither are you. If he had 30 kids in the class, then he had 30 different families with 30 different beliefs and traditions. Sorry, but it is part of his job to respect every one; regardless of how unimportant we or he finds it to be.

Should she go to the principal? Again, I find the answer in how friendly she is with the principal and if she thinks other parents may storm the school over it. Just as a heads up kind of thing, not "do you know what he did? And I am darn mad about it!!" I don't have a relationship with our principal and I would not go to her over this, but I know a few parents that might.

 

[luvsJack]

Thanks, but not really. Ten minutes, tops

Did I tell you I'm taking a class in stand-up comedy? I guess I've just written this week's homework!

You should definitely get an A+!!!

And as a side note, I really commend you for going for a dream like stand up comedy! To me a comic is one of the bravest souls for walking out on that stage! That is really great that you have that kind of talent and are going for it.

 

[castleview]

I am curious though...do you know what other parents think about what happened??

I did ask two parents of my daughter's friends who still believe. They haven't heard anything which made me wonder if DD read into it because she was questioning it in the first place. Of course, DD brought it to me a month afterwards also. They're hoping to find out too (without dropping the secret of course) as they don't think much of the teacher. One said his daughter might not have said anything because she hardly pays attention to the music teacher. Who knows? DD said the kids were talking about it after the infamous lecture but many decided to ignore him and still believe. DD did too until one night it just got to her, I guess.

 

[castleview]

You should definitely get an A+!!!

And as a side note, I really commend you for going for a dream like stand up comedy! To me a comic is one of the bravest souls for walking out on that stage! That is really great that you have that kind of talent and are going for it.

Ditto!