Will DVC Ever Expand beyond parks again?

[CookieandOatmeal]

If they ever build off site again, I wouldn’t mind a nice ski resort. It’ll be something different.

 

[Judique]

If they ever build off site again, I wouldn’t mind a nice ski resort. It’ll be something different.

Not DVC but Disney has dabbled in this idea.

'Disney's Mineral King Ski Resort was a project developed by Walt Disney Productions in the 1960s. Disney had become interested in skiing around this time, and decided to build a ski resort in the Mineral King Valley. At the time, many skiers believed this to be the largest potential resort in all of California..'

 

[The Jackal]

If they ever build off site again, I wouldn’t mind a nice ski resort. It’ll be something different.

Ski resorts are popular for X months a year, when they have snow. While a lot of ski resorts have tried other activities during the summer months. DVC resorts have to be at capacity all year long. The three off property resorts resale values are in the tank. Aulani which is only 50% sold out can be bought for under $100. VB and HHI are the lowest of the DVC resorts selling for 50-70 per point. I’m not saying that they are not great resorts. From what I hear Aulani is probably the Best DVC resort they have built. But is suffers from location. Its not on Disney Park property. I’m ok with Disney building a Disney themed hotel somewhere off property for cash, but not DVC.

 

[CookieandOatmeal]

Ski resorts are popular for X months a year. While a lot of resorts have tried other activities during the summer months. DVC resorts have to be at capacity all year long.

I know and agree it would be a tough sell for sure. If DVC ever did build a ski resort, my family would only go during the winter months so definitely a pipe dream.

 

[chalee94]

I guess with Aulani happening so much later than HHI and VB, is Disney considering going back to those days? It would be great to have them have more of a network... Their service is so much better than any other vacation club, maybe not Hyatt which is also very good.

Multiple issues have been brought up that kill the idea of offsite resorts:

Lots of people like the idea of having an "option" to go once in a while, but it only makes sense to build it if people absolutely have to stay there and the demand is strong enough to make the 11 month window valuable for more than a few months a year.

At WDW, Disney resorts are unique and command a premium price. Offsite, their HHI resort is nice but Marriott has (IMO) much nicer timeshare resorts in better locations (beachfront). I stayed at a Marriott timeshare in Kauai in 2019 and the resort and island blew me away - I would like to visit Aulani but as others have said, Oahu is a very nice island but probably not the absolute favorite Hawaiian island for most - not as much of a draw for repeat stays and the location complicates the appeal of annual visits.

I have a non-DVC timeshare which is great for trying out the Marriott network - I have tried Marriotts in Southern California, St Kitts, Kauai, HHI, Las Vegas, Williamsburg and many in Orlando. (Very close to booking the Marriott near Disneyland Paris but haven't yet. Also stayed at non-Marriott timeshares near Acadia National Park and in Breckenridge CO...and Orlando, naturally.) If you want more non-WDW options, you should hang out on TUG and learn more about those possibilities. But until Disney can find a suitable idea where DVC owners not only want to visit...but where they are eager to buy and go most every year, I think it's safe to say DVC will stick with near-park locations.

 

[Judique]

When someone trades out of an onsite resorts for another onsite resort it still opens up another room onsite. Many people talk about buying the 'cheap' offsite resorts with the primary purpose of staying onsite at 7 months. I've haven't seen anyone post about buying onsite with the primary goal being booking offsite. And yes, it's the 7 month window that is affected.

The people doing that talking probably haven't really considered the cost of dues at HH and VB. I've often considered more points at HH.

But, it would be a LOT smarter for me long term to buy SSR or even a newer resort (higher upfront cost) and use those points at HH as dues start to pass the $10 per point stage.

I only need a small amount of HH points to use the 11 month window at the critical point and then can get pretty much any date I want at 7 months, so often I am using my WDW points to book HH and occasionally VB.

The other factor - HH and VB are small - their impact overall on WDW resorts is minimal, compared to for instance, SSR. When SSR came, everyone was aghast that they would be trading out and ruining chances of getting in what were at the time considered to be more preferable resorts. Now the chatter is more that 'something will be available at SSR.' Not near as negative as when first built.

Plus - there isn't a night at WDW that somewhere there isn't going to be some kind of availability. Maybe not the size of accommodation you or I may personally want, but you will find something.

 

[sethschroeder]

I'd love to have a DVC option near the international parks. Especially Tokyo, but Paris, Shanghai and Hong Kong would be great too.
However, I don't think we'll ever see it. Tokyo in particular, it's nearly impossible there.

I don't want them to have a DVC resort I want them to have DVC rooms open to the membership paid for by those trading in to the location that is over there.

If they have a resort in those locations the chances will be even worse than getting in to VGC since how many of those owners really would be traveling to the US often enough to open up availability.

 

[Judique]

Multiple issues have been brought up that kill the idea of offsite resorts:

Lots of people like the idea of having an "option" to go once in a while, but it only makes sense to build it if people absolutely have to stay there and the demand is strong enough to make the 11 month window valuable for more than a few months a year.

At WDW, Disney resorts are unique and command a premium price. Offsite, their HHI resort is nice but Marriott has (IMO) much nicer timeshare resorts in better locations (beachfront). I stayed at a Marriott timeshare in Kauai in 2019 and the resort and island blew me away - I would like to visit Aulani but as others have said, Oahu is a very nice island but probably not the absolute favorite Hawaiian island for most - not as much of a draw for repeat stays and the location complicates the appeal of annual visits.

I have a non-DVC timeshare which is great for trying out the Marriott network - I have tried Marriotts in Southern California, St Kitts, Kauai, HHI, Las Vegas, Williamsburg and many in Orlando. (Very close to booking the Marriott near Disneyland Paris but haven't yet. Also stayed at non-Marriott timeshares near Acadia National Park and in Breckenridge CO...and Orlando, naturally.) If you want more non-WDW options, you should hang out on TUG and learn more about those possibilities. But until Disney can find a suitable idea where DVC owners not only want to visit...but where they are eager to buy and go most every year, I think it's safe to say DVC will stick with near-park locations.

What is your favorite Hilton Head Marriott timeshare? I've got a lot of Marriott hotel points and have been toying with the idea of doing a room there with a few of them. Just couldn't decide where to spend them.

 

[sethschroeder]

If Disney does anything it has to come along side a resort that can actually support a 5-7 day vacation.

What do I mean by support? There needs to be basically the feeling of all inclusive about the resort where you don't want to leave the resort for the length of the stay. Yes people may choose to leave the resort but the point is you can go there for the next 50 years and never need to leave the location.

Every resort they have not at the parks seems to be inferior to other options in terms of locations and breadth of amenities.

 

[sethschroeder]

Oh and likely the only reason HHI or VB even have any value on the resale market its because of WDW IMO.

 

[Judique]

About ten years ago there were plans for a DVC resort near DC at National Harbor but it got scraped. While it sounded like an interesting idea, you have to wonder how much of a draw it would be to keep it sustainable year round.

Hawaii works because it’s on the beach, there’s an all inclusive feel to it. Could other locations say the same thing? We spent a weekend at HHI years ago and felt that it was lacking.

I couldn't see feasibility for DVC at National Harbor either. They have quite a few options with the prices hovering near the $100 mark many times of the year. Sure you will see a pricing surge for Cherry Blossoms and such, but really even the higher end ones can be had relatively cheaply.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

Ski resorts are popular for X months a year, when they have snow. While a lot of ski resorts have tried other activities during the summer months. DVC resorts have to be at capacity all year long.

This would make the 11 month window key. Would have to own to book peak times at a ski resort which should help direct/resale somewhat.

I feel like the Lake Tahoe area does pretty well both summer and winter? I've only been in the summer. Proximity to money in the Bay Area would help sales I'd think.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I guess with Aulani happening so much later than HHI and VB, is Disney considering going back to those days?

Speaking to this, Aulani was announced in 2007, and opened in 2011. Disney haven't dabbled in acquiring any off site real estate of note in the last 10 years.

Aulani is 10 years in, and 14 as a going project, and more than 15 years since land acquisition. So if Disney had any intent to do more non-park stuff, they really have had plenty of time to move on that.

 

[Brian Noble]

Lots of people like the idea of having an "option" to go once in a while, but it only makes sense to build it if people absolutely have to stay there and the demand is strong enough to make the 11 month window valuable for more than a few months a year.

There is one way around this, and it is one that e.g. WorldMark and now Wyndham have: erase the notion of home resort partially or entirely. At WorldMark, there simply isn't a notion of home resort. At Wyndham there is a product (Access) that is overlaid on top of a system that has a notion of a home resort, but is a pool built from at least some inventory from dozens and dozens of resorts. Access owners can book from that "pool" during the home resort priority period, so in some sense have priority everywhere.

Of course, in practice this doesn't always work out. There are some resorts/times that are in very high demand. WorldMark has a resort right at the doorstep of Yellowstone NP's national entrance and summer bookings there are nearly impossible to get without both tenacity and luck. I suspect Wyndham's Access owners have something similar, but the system is large enough and Access is new enough that I don't think we really know much about it yet. I guess that weekends at the indoor waterpark in Wisconsin are tough but that's a guess.

But, what happens in practice is a lot less important than what the buyer thinks when they are considering a purchase. And if the story is "book anywhere during the home resort period" then the inventory underlying the purchase can be in Mugwump Swamp for all the buyer cares.

This would be hard for DVC to accomplish without getting more aggressive at reclaiming existing inventory or waiting for the 2042 expirations, because to make this work they'd need non-trivial WDW inventory in the "pooled" product, but it's an idea.

There needs to be basically the feeling of all inclusive about the resort where you don't want to leave the resort for the length of the stay.

That is certainly true of WDW, but it needn't be true in general for a timeshare development to be successful. Very few other timeshares have this model, yet they are successful. Most of them are in places where the surroundings provide that week-ish-long vacation, at least seasonally.

Every resort they have not at the parks seems to be inferior to other options in terms of locations and breadth of amenities.

I think this is the problem as much as anything. VB is too far north to really scratch the snowbird beach itch, and it's not near much of anything else. HHI is not on (or even near) the water. Aulani, as noted above, is on the wrong island.

 

[Bearval]

Do you think Aulani won’t sell through by Disney’s intention or by the lack of interest? I believe HHI and VB are sold out....

DVD sold the land at VB a few years ago that was supposed to be used for an expansion so my guess is that they are done with off site properties for the time being

 

[NoTime42]

This would make the 11 month window key. Would have to own to book peak times at a ski resort which should help direct/resale somewhat.

I feel like the Lake Tahoe area does pretty well both summer and winter? I've only been in the summer. Proximity to money in the Bay Area would help sales I'd think.

With companies leaving the area (Oracle, Tesla, HP enterprise) it’s probably not the best time to invest in California when prices are high.

But that seems to be the DVC way. Open GCV as the recession hit Cali, open Aluani as a recession hit Japan...

Now, if DVC could figure out something in Texas, perhaps?

 

[Roughians_satchel]

Ski resort is a dream for sure (maybe cut a deal with Virgin for a high speed rail connecting to Disneyland?) Lake Tahoe is not a bad idea - it's proximity to Bay Area and popularity in the summer would solve some of the DVC-out-of-Disney-bubble issues. They also could build it on the Nevada side to avoid some of the tax issues with California. But honestly, what would sell better and be more economical - Reflections or a mainly ski resort DVC?

 

[LAX]

Wyndham has a resort in the National Harbor development, and it is quite popular. Personally, I prefer the one in Alexandria, VA---fewer points plus just around the corner from a Metro station. DC is a great destination for a family vacation between the various Federal monuments/sights, National Zoo, plus Smithsonian museums. We could have spent our entire week just in the museums and had a great time. If you go, the cafe in the NMAI is excellent.

The California location is now Marriott's Newport Coast Villas.

The essential problem is that Disney is a mid-tier hotelier that wants to charge top-tier prices. The locations next to the theme parks can (mostly) get away with this, but once you get farther afield the comparisons start to be more obvious (and unfavorable).

I think the bolded (by me) part sums it up really well. It's the parks that make DVC attractive. Without the parks, the quality of DVC properties (with VGF possibly being an exception) are no where near what's expected for their prices.

LAX

 

[chalee94]

What is your favorite Hilton Head Marriott timeshare? I've got a lot of Marriott hotel points and have been toying with the idea of doing a room there with a few of them. Just couldn't decide where to spend them.

It's hard to pick - Grande Ocean probably wins overall for location (it's on the beach and near Sea Pines). I haven't stayed at Barony but it's also directly on the beach. I have also stayed at SurfWatch - there is a short boardwalk to the beach - I may have been spoiled as I was in the building nearest the ocean, but it's a great resort as well. Any of these three are great choices - TUG rates them all around a 9 or better out of 10. Definitely give it a shot for a trip...

Hilton Head Island Vacation Rentals | Marriott's Grande Ocean

 

[Judique]

It's hard to pick - Grande Ocean probably wins overall for location (it's on the beach and near Sea Pines). I haven't stayed at Barony but it's also directly on the beach. I have also stayed at SurfWatch - there is a short boardwalk to the beach - I may have been spoiled as I was in the building nearest the ocean, but it's a great resort as well. Any of these three are great choices - TUG rates them all around a 9 or better out of 10. Definitely give it a shot for a trip...

Hilton Head Island Vacation Rentals | Marriott's Grande Ocean

Thank you! SurfWatch may interest me most.