Will DVC build on the West Coast soon?

[Dean]

Originally posted by stlrod
There are plenty of incentives to own at HHI. Any comparable property on HHI (Marriott) is going to cost more. You will also not have unit-size flexibility. I am a long-time Marriott owner who bought DVC on HHI for one reason only: a 5-night stay over the summer cost half as much as a week at Marriott's BB. Also in DVC's favor is the ability to get a 1BR or a Grand Villa as the need arises. The downside of Disney is that it does not from the beach (most people want that.)

While I understand the thinking, I'm not sure I totally agree with it. To say 5 days at DVC is half of Marriott Barony or Grande Ocean is misleading. For summer, you're talking 165 points for 5 days excluding Fri and Sat at about $12375 (current cost) and yearly fees of around $528 per year while you can buy an Platinum (summer) oceanside unit at GO for around $17000 out the door with yearly fees about $650 and are guaranteed a summer week. Both are flexible in their own way. Remember you're talking 5 vs 7 days in addition to the oceanfront location. With Marriott you have a choice of weeks within a season but only one unit size. With DVC, you have to compete with other owners but have a choice of unit size and exact time of year. They both offer different things but overall, I'd consider Marriott cheaper for someone wanting a 2 BR and with the trading options, more flexible in some ways, less in others. DVC is certianly cheaper for smaller units and Marriott HH doesn't offer 3 BR units.

Location wise DVC is more comparable to Marriott's Harbour Pointe and Sunset Pointe where you can buy a full week, 2 BR for as low as $6500. DVC is a nicer resort than SP or HP but certainly not than Barony or Grande Ocean. So I guess it depends on how you'll use it and what's important to you. I've stayed at DVC and 3 Marriott's on HH and enjoyed them all. I just enjoyed Grande Ocean much better than all of the rest and being directly on the beach and closer to the action is worth any trade off's for us.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

We own at VWL, BCV and HHI. Personally, it was the 2 offsite options that helped sell me on the DVC concept. I didn't want to exclusively stay at WDW, as there are so many extra costs associated with vacationing there (especially when there is no "good" DVC pass discount ).

We had a wonderful vacation at HH in January, and spent less than $300.00 out of pocket. That is almost unheard of at WDW. In addition, the HH point structure allows you to stay at holiday times without getting gouged on points like you are at the onsites. HH is the perfect option for vacationing when the kids are out of school, These times are very crowded at WDW; I'd rather vacation in the "off season" at the parks.

 

[vernon]

I've stayed at ( and LOVED) both Vero and HH BUT from an economic point of view neither were/are a raging success for Disney, they had a lot of capital tied up in both projects for a lot longer than they were anticipating, indeed at Vero they would still be stuck with a large area of undeveloped land had they not sold that tranche off. For that reason I think it very unlikely that Disney will look at another "out of park" site. IF there was the land available I think one could make a decent argument for a DVC in/next to Disneyland in California but I don't believe there is any land available ( at anywhere NEAR a sensible cost) and I also believe the authorities in that area were not helpful when Disney were looking to buy some land that did become available.

On the comments about a DVC at DL Paris, I don't think this will EVER go ahead, because 1) DLP isn't owned by Disney 2) all the problems associated with locations outside of WDW and 3) because DLP is never going to be more than a 3 day location for the vast majority of visitors.
I think a reasonable rate of exchange for the hotels at DLP is more than sufficient to cover any needs that visiting DVC owners are going to have. .

 

[Richyams]

I think its funny how this question keeps coming up. I do understand it, it would be nice to have more options within DVC, but there is no chance at all we will ever see another off site DVC resort again.

HH and VB were such dismal failures.

 

[KirstenB]

Rich, HH and VB may have not produced the revenue that DVC had planned on, but as an OKW owner, boy am I glad we have these options. Have you visited either resort? I know you live in Fla, so it costs you less to get to WDW than most of us.

MY dh and I are thinking about having another child. I tell ya, HH will be getting my vacation vote for several years if we do.

The thought of a 14 hour drive (or 4 plane tix), plus park hoppers, etc vs. a 7 hour drive, with no crowds, no pressures; its just a no-brainer.

Finally, I have to tell ya, the negative labels you put on any resort other than OKW---it's just getting old. The fact of the matter is, it's wonderful to have choices.

 

[stlrod]

Dean, I'm not meaning to knock Marriott (I am an owner also.) However, I assume you are using resale prices for Marriott since GO is sold-out. If so, it's only fair to use resale prices for Disney which would generally be about $65 per point rather than $75. Half is probably a bit of an overstatement (using that comparison the DVC cost would be about 63% of the GO cost.) If you compare direct-from-developer prices for the summer season for 165 points at DVC and the lowest priced unit at BB for that season (which is a fairly decent walk to the beach with no view) it comes a little closer to half. Either way, it is a substantial difference.

 

[ncligs]

KirstenB said....Rich, HH and VB may have not produced the revenue that DVC had planned on, but as an OKW owner, boy am I glad we have these options. Have you visited either resort? I know you live in Fla, so it costs you less to get to WDW than most of us.
-------------------------------------------------

Very good points you made to Rich. I am sure that living in Florida makes it a lot easier for Rich to be "pro-WDW" on site.

 

[JonHM]

Am I the only one who thinks that a night at HH or VB during most times of the year should be significantly cheaper, points wise, than the on-site resorts? I know for the most part, in most seasons, they *are* cheaper, but often not by much at all.

 

[KirstenB]

Jon, I haven't much time to think this through right now, but if you had significantly lower point values, wouldn't those resorts be "full" all the time? I mean you could have one owner booking there for weeks or even months at a time, and if you had quite a few people doing that, the rest of us would never be able to book.

I see what you're saying in theory, that staying onsite at WDW commands a serious premium, but I'm not sure how it would actually work out.

Please, somebody who is much smarter with numbers than me---would Jon's idea work?

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by stlrod
Dean, I'm not meaning to knock Marriott (I am an owner also.) However, I assume you are using resale prices for Marriott since GO is sold-out. If so, it's only fair to use resale prices for Disney which would generally be about $65 per point rather than $75. Half is probably a bit of an overstatement (using that comparison the DVC cost would be about 63% of the GO cost.) If you compare direct-from-developer prices for the summer season for 165 points at DVC and the lowest priced unit at BB for that season (which is a fairly decent walk to the beach with no view) it comes a little closer to half. Either way, it is a substantial difference.

No insult taken, just want those that don't know what we're talking about to get an idea of the pluses and minuses. It all depends on how you look at it. GO can be had for around $17K platinum and as little as $4000-6000 off season, resale. Enough points for DVC for a 2 BR for 7 days in summer is certainly more than that, closer to $20000. Of course if one goes for 5 days (which you can't do with Marriott), the cost is less but only about $6000 less (roughly 2/3). It's always been funny to me how everyone talks location at WDW and ignores that portion at HH. There are a lot of benefits to DVC and to Marriott so what's best for one is not the same as another and therefore the costs are relative to the desires and situation, trading, planned usage and any other factor that is important for any given family. Both DVC and the top Marriott's are to be envied and treasured.

 

[stlrod]

As usual Dean, we probably agree more than we disagree. You are correct: there are pluses and minuses. Since I already have a tradeable Marriott, I bought DVC HH with the intention of using it there every other year with some ocassional use at WDW. If I were buying with a desire to trade, DVC wouldn't even make the short list. As for location, GO is clearlythe most desirable due to the large number of units with an ocean-view. I myself, however, prefer the low-country views at DVC. BB is not, in my view, in a desirable location. Very few units are oceanview and for those you have to pay the big bucks (30K).

 

[CaptainMidnight]

My opinion is that Vero Beach and Hilton Head options have helped boost WDW DVC sales. Many people are not interested in WDW "only" options, having offsite resorts as part of the package helps sell the WDW resorts. People are purchasing a package of resorts, not just a single resort.

As a Vero Beach and Beach Club owner, I greatly enjoy the peacefulness of the Vero resort and I'm glad it was an option, it was my preference. We don't intend to go to WDW every vacation, every year.

Sometimes this line of discussion get into Vero beach ownership "bashing," the repitition of which gets old and bothersome for those of us who are very happy with our Vero purchase. I'm not convinced that slower sales is that horrible, if there have been enough cash accomodations to balance out and keep the resort finances in shape. I'm also glad they will not be building additional villas on the non-ocean side of the resort, I woudn't want to stay across the road. Vero seems to be selling out consistent with the projections I was told 3 years ago.

I like Vero, and I'm looking forward to my next trip home there. It will certainly cost me less than my next trip to the Beach Club Villas. That's why we have our home resort purchases set up the way we do, relaxing beach vacations, and Beach Club center of the WDW action vacations. I'm also looking forward to a stay at my other preferred resort in my DVC package of resorts, WLV.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by CaptainMidnight
My opinion is that Vero Beach and Hilton Head options have helped boost WDW DVC sales. Many people are not interested in WDW "only" options, having offsite resorts as part of the package helps sell the WDW resorts. People are purchasing a package of resorts, not just a single resort.

I think you're right however most people who speak of HH and VB do so in the tone of I also like to occassionally go to VB/HH. It's an add on but not a main part of their desire. Obviously that's not true for everyone but I'm sure it is for many. That's part of the reason it's taken so long to sell out what are relatively small resorts in addition to the seasonal nature of the resorts. A points system starts to break down somewhat when there is such a wide range of desireability such as at HH. That's what Rich means when he says they are "failures" and in many ways, he is correct. That doesn't make them bad resorts, they are far from it.

stlrod, I was sure we were pretty close. I tend to point out just the points I feel are different than many are thinking and assume the rest. HH DVC is a great resort and the points system very flexible in many ways. But with 2 GO platinum weeks I am virtually assured of 4th of July with 2 units every year and I am guaranteed that one of them is Ocean Front and one isn't. I can also book them 13 months out, 1 month earlier than single week owners. That makes them easy to trade with II, trade privately, use or rent out. We will likely use them every other year and rent or trade them privately otherwise. I also own at Harbour Pointe which I use strictly for trading and it's been wonderful for that purpose. It's also a nice resort with similar but slighlty bestter views than DVC though DVC is a nicer resort overall.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

I hope to never have to do this, but if we ever had to sell some of our points, HH would be the last to go, due to the overall affordability of a vacation there. The off-sites offer our family a great vacation at minimal additional expense. Besides, except for maybe holiday time, they could always be exchanged for OKW at the 7 month window.

 

[sumessefui]

I love having VB & HH as alternatives. Staying at VB for 2-3 days before going to WDW is great. Not being a beach person,I would not want to own at VB. HH was great and we did do a subatantial addon there and part of the lure was it not being on the beach. I love looking out over the marsh early in the morning.
It would be nice to have other DVC offsite options, but I don't think the DVD wanted to go through the hassle of trying to compete with the timeshare giants, when it's so easy to sell at WDW. It is just a shame that they could not have formed some sort of parternership with one of them.

 

[Califgirl]

I haven't been on the boards since this topic was introduced, so forgive me for getting to the original topic of a Calif. DVC resort. Indeed, Disney did have land and plans to build a DVC resort and then sold the land off. My understanding was that due to Calif. real estate laws they could not build a RTU (right to use with an ending date) resort.

In December, while I was staying at the Grand Californian Hotel, I heard a RUMOR (from a very good source - the source did not consider it a rumor) that DVC was going to add a resort adjacent to the Grand Californian. So, either Calif. has changed the real estate laws, or perhaps DVC will be changing from a RTU to permanent deeded property? In any case, something seems to have changed. I will welcome a DVC property at Disneyland, and if it comes to pass, you can bet I'll be adding on a contract there!

 

[TIdoublegaER]

I must pipe in and "defend" my home.

It is my understanding from talking to CMs that VB and HH are not "dissapointments." They, in fact, are on track with their projected sales. From their inception DVD didn't expect them to sell as quickly as WDW resorts. Therefore, the fact that they didn't sell-out in one year (VWL) was not the measurement of "failure."

I own at HH (first purchace) and OKW. There are certainly attractive features of owning "off-site." We bought because of the beauty of the island, accesability of the beach, and of course because of the "disney magic." It is the location coupled with the attraction of disney that sells (would sell) off-site resorts.

I'm not totally naive. I see DVD's redirection towards WDW sites. I really do believe, however, if the correct loction is chosen ... DVC could be wonderfully successful at another location.

 

[jmatias]

Hi Califgirl,

I heard the same rumor while at Disneyland during Xmas 2001.

Interesting how my original question about any potential West Coast DVC took a turn to a discussion of the East Coast DVCs.

All I know is from my Marriott timeshare perspective: Southern California properties are extremely popular trades and that there are not enough "quality" resorts in SoCal.

I do have a list given to us by a Marriott sales rep in Hawaii that lists potential Marriott resorts and one location states Anaheim. So maybe once again, Disney is letting Marriott do the building.

When I read the posts, I noticed that majority of DVC owners on the board are Rockies to East Coast.

IMHO, DVC has a huge market in the WEST just dying for a resort...and one of those potential customers is me!

Aloha,
Jen

 

[stlrod]

Sorry for my hand in moving the conversation towards the East. As for the West, it was fairly easy to get in to Newport Coast this summer by trading my Orlando Marriott unit this year. As sales increase though, that will probably not be the case. The Marriott does have a great deal for anyone wanting to take a tour. For $298, they'll give you 3 nights at the Ritz-Carlton Laguna Niguel and a $50 gift certificate if you stay midweek. If you want more information, e-mail me. As for DVC at Grand Californian, I have one question: How much smaller can DVC make its units? There just isn't room (unless they tear out Calkifornia Adventure which many would probably like to see--not me though--I like it--I do not feel the same way about the GC._

 

[Richyams]

It is my understanding from talking to CMs that VB and HH are not "dissapointments." They, in fact, are on track with their projected sales.

LOL

Come on, these are not only salesman, they are timeshare salesman, what do you expect them to say??

If they are on track, why did DVD go through the awful experience of lowering the subsidy and dramatically increase the dues? This was not a lightly taken move, this had serious effects.

If they are on track, why is "The other side of the road", nothing but a distant memory?

If they are on track, why is this side of the road only a shadow of its original design?

If they are on track, why did DVD sell all that land???

No, sales were a big dissapointment at VB. HH is not far behind.

If sales were so on track, why has Disney announced at least two other DVC resorts only to cancel plans?

Sorry, but VB and HH were not anywhere near "On track", not even close.

They are both beautiful resorts, truly among the finest on the planet and I am VERY happy to have them as options.....I am also dissapointed that sales were so awful. If sales had been better, we may have had several other off site choices.