Why wait times have gotten crazy

[lugnut33]

All I know is I get less for more money under FP+, so there must be a reason for that.
Here's something I wrote 2 years ago (Nov. 2013) and it all still holds today. It was my vision of life under FP+:

My recommendations for a great Disney World trip once FP- is gone:

Vacation at a slow time of year like September and first part of November. Be very selective about the time you vacation. Pull kids out of school to get the most bang for your buck.

Stay for 7 days minimum. Plan on going to MK for 3 days, EP 2 days, DHS, 2 days, and AK 1 day. Due to the limit on the number of FP+ one can get, extended vacations will allow you to use FP+ on all the main attractions.

Don't worry about park hopping unless you're interested in seeing the lesser known attractions.

Do not change your schedule the day of unless you are OK with losing your headlining FP+ appointments.

At non busy times you will want to be at the parks at least a half hour before opening..at busy times get there an hour or two ahead. This way you can see the most attractions in a day, and perhaps even ride the headliners more than once. This will become more vital as FP+ becomes more established.

It's still ok to leave for an afternoon break, just make sure you get back in time for your FP+ appointments if you planned them for the afternoon.

Be prepared for huge lines to get into FP lines. That means bring ponchos.

Work with your kids on proper magic band placement to help keep the FP+ line moving.

Schedule your FP+ rides in the afternoons or evenings when the park is most crowded. You are better off using your FP+ selections at that time instead of waiting in huge lines for all non FP+ attractions.

If it's ever offered go ahead and purchase the unlimited FP no matter how much it costs.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

...who uses a FP at 10 AM? ...

Many folks do. FP+ is not limited to 3 hours each day.

FP are used all day long.

 

[dlavender]

Many folks do. FP+ is not limited to 3 hours each day.

FP are used all day long.

That's true. They can use them at 8:05 AM on Dumbo if they want.

What I meant to convey, and failed, is who needs to use a FP at 10 AM on any ride not named 7DMT?

 

[mickeyluv'r]

That's true. They can use them at 8:05 AM on Dumbo if they want.

What I meant to convey, and failed, is who needs to use a FP at 10 AM on any ride not named 7DMT?

Well now, that depends. Is obtaining a 4th FP part of your plan?

Is your visit Christmas week, or middle September? Are we talking MK or Epcot?


Oh wait.....nevermind. Wishes is a great use of your 3rd FP. Yes, everyone should select a Wishes FP!

 

[mesaboy2]

That's true. They can use them at 8:05 AM on Dumbo if they want.

What I meant to convey, and failed, is who needs to use a FP at 10 AM on any ride not named 7DMT?

Not many, but Disney doesn't want the masses to know that. In fact, their suggested return windows might even steer you there. Who does that benefit the most I wonder? (Psst...I already know the answer.)

 

[dlavender]

Well now, that depends. Is obtaining a 4th FP part of your plan?

Is your visit Christmas week, or middle September? Are we talking MK or Epcot?


Oh wait.....nevermind. Wishes is a great use of your 3rd FP. Yes, everyone should select a Wishes FP!

True, make sure you get your 4th FP for ETWB as soon as you are done with your first 3....

 

[lugnut33]

True, make sure you get your 4th FP for ETWB as soon as you are done with your first 3....

What if there is no fourth FP+ for ETWB available until 8 PM? Would one have to wait until after using that fastpass to obtain another..... unlike the old FP system where after two hours you could get another.

 

[bcrook]

All I know is I get less for more money under FP+, so there must be a reason for that.
Here's something I wrote 2 years ago (Nov. 2013) and it all still holds today. It was my vision of life under FP+:

I liked it then, and I liked it now. Prophetic.

 

[bcrook]

That's true. They can use them at 8:05 AM on Dumbo if they want.

What I meant to convey, and failed, is who needs to use a FP at 10 AM on any ride not named 7DMT?

When I visted four parks in one day a few weeks ago (10/17) I started with fastpasses at splash, space mountain, and Peter Pan for 8:30, 9:30, and 10:30am. . Splash was a walk on. Peter Pan was 30+ SB min wait (FP walk on), space mountain was a small wait. The park was so crazy crowded, and the kiosks so stacked up that we left right after 10:30 am.

It is a sucker bet to waste FP early in the day. But, if you don't, there are no extra FP worth getting.

It is a convoluted, illogical system that doesn't lend itself to full days in the parks.

For me I enter the park catch the end of one FP time slot, ride my next ride and catch the beginning of my third slot. My rides are gone in an hour. What's left is a whole bunch of time waiting for the fireworks.

 

[DoingDisney]

It is a convoluted, illogical system that doesn't lend itself to full days in the parks.

Which is why Disney bragged that they could now cycle in 4000 (I think it was 4000) more guests per day at MK during peak vacation seasons due to FP+ (and yes they specifically attributed this to MM/FP+) Perhaps the perfect picture of people getting less for more. If you are cycling more people through the park, each person is doing less.

Heck, it is possible with this system that Disney could sell triple the capacity of tickets for MK for a day, and allocate 3 rides to each person and nothing else. Have each person come to the parks for 3 hours and leave. You could fit 150K people through MK in a day !!!! (I bet this was part of the sales pitch to the Disney execs)

 

[flicx]

That's not always true. We're there 2nd week in October and had to wait a long time all three days we were in MK. We didn't even try it in EPCOT because there were so many people waiting. On top of that, the dang touch screens seem to faulter frequently, which slows down the line.

Thank you that is what I have been told too.

 

[Hudson Hornet]

I'm really amazed that one of the biggest knocks on the legacy system was that it was underutilized because the average guest didn't understand it. Yet all of a sudden the average guest is going to know 60 days out that they need to lock into SM, 7dmt and A&E.

To piggy back a little bit if I may, I don't like having to plan my FPs so far out in order to get them, just because it is suddenly easier for everyone to book them. I hate being locked in to a plan without being able to switch should I decide to without the fear of losing a FP.

I also don't like losing a FP to another guest just because he or she booked to check in 2 days before my check in. If we are both going to MK on the same day, why should he or she get first dibs on Mine Train?

I feel like the legacy system level led the playing field much more. I much preferred to be able to go to a park with a plan of action for the legacy system. I knew which had them and how to use the system to maximize my FPs.

 

[DoingDisney]

I'm really amazed that one of the biggest knocks on the legacy system was that it was underutilized because the average guest didn't understand it. Yet all of a sudden the average guest is going to know 60 days out that they need to lock into SM, 7dmt and A&E.

Also, its funny to read the ADR's / FPs / Planning threads (including Disney's fault for expectations not being met thread) where the vast majority of people are blaming the visitor for not doing enough research. The ADR, FP+ system aren't broken, people just need to do their research, its their fault if they don't.

But somehow legacy FP was broken because people didn't do their research ???

Just an interesting observation.

 

[larryz]

And the theme park that takes this attitude, in my opinion, has lost its way.

It's what happens when the stockholder is more important than the customer.

Disney used to be in the entertainment business. Now it's in the shareholder value enhancement business.

 

[wisblue]

When I visted four parks in one day a few weeks ago (10/17) I started with fastpasses at splash, space mountain, and Peter Pan for 8:30, 9:30, and 10:30am. . Splash was a walk on. Peter Pan was 30+ SB min wait (FP walk on), space mountain was a small wait. The park was so crazy crowded, and the kiosks so stacked up that we left right after 10:30 am.

So, you're saying you didn't wait 20 minutes in the FP+ lines?

 

[Planogirl]

Many folks do. FP+ is not limited to 3 hours each day.

FP are used all day long.

I have a few early fastpasses scheduled. One for a park we intend to leave early (AK) and one for a park where we really only wanted one FP+ because of tiering (Epcot).

 

[bcrook]

So, you're saying you didn't wait 20 minutes in the FP+ lines?

Not at 9:30 in the morning on Saturday 10/17. I had a full report on my four park day on another thread. I was trying to see how many fastpasses I could get in one day. So we burned ours first thing in the morning. Although, I wouldn't recommend using fastpasses that early, Peter Pan still needed one. Standby was over thirty minutes at that point.

During the rest of the trip, I waited 20 minutes or more in the fastpass lines for The Safari, dinosaur, TSMM (30 min), star tours (30 min), I forgot to time Everest, but I did notice the FP queue now had I lot more things to look at. It took a while, but I love that line. I skipped test track- so I didn't get to experience that.

But Splash and the Mine Train have never had a long FP return line for any of my rides. Tower of terror had 20+ minute waits in July but in October the wait was closer to 5 minutes.

The time to go to DHS in October is on a weekend when Epcot is overflowing and when there is not a party at MK (10/17) Those two parks absorb the crowds. TSMM FP return was still over 20 mins. But the rest of the place was manageable. On 10/16 - a party night at MK, DHS was nuts. That was when I had my 30 min FP Star Tours wait.

 

[wisblue]

Not at 9:30 in the morning on Saturday 10/17. I had a full report on my four park day on another thread. I was trying to see how many fastpasses I could get in one day. So we burned ours first thing in the morning. Although, I wouldn't recommend using fastpasses that early, Peter Pan still needed one. Standby was over thirty minutes at that point.

During the rest of the trip, I waited 20 minutes or more in the fastpass lines for The Safari, dinosaur, TSMM (30 min), star tours (30 min), I forgot to time Everest, but I did notice the FP queue now had I lot more things to look at. It took a while, but I love that line. I skipped test track- so I didn't get to experience that.

But Splash and the Mine Train have never had a long FP return line for any of my rides. Tower of terror had 20+ minute waits in July but in October the wait was closer to 5 minutes.

The time to go to DHS is on a weekend when Epcot is overflowing and when there is not a party at MK (10/17) Those two parks absorb the crowds. TSMM FP return was still over 20 mins. But the rest of the place was manageable. On 10/16 - a party night at MK, DHS was nuts. That was when I had my 30 min FP Star Tours wait.

Your experience with FP lines is a lot different than mine has been, and is apparently different than what has been observed by the team at Touring Plans.

We almost always use our FPs in late afternoon or early evening, except on departure days, or days on which we have other evening plans. Over the last 2 years I have probably used more than 50 FPs, and I have waited 15-20 minutes maybe once or twice. The rest have all been 5-10 minutes or less, and that includes visits at Christmas and Easter with crowd level 10 days. The FP waits haven't been noticeably different than they were with paper FPs, though I guess if they were a couple of minutes longer I probably wouldn't notice because I didn't time them.

I will be spending a few days at WDW starting later this week as a couple of my daughters are running the half marathon. So, I'll be interested to see if the lines are noticeably different than they were on my previous trips, including this spring.

For consistency, when you time those lines, do you stop counting when you actually board a ride vehicle, or when you get past the merge point into the preshow or final boarding area? For some rides, that can make a pretty significant difference. I would usually focus on the point at which CMs would take those red cards because that apparently is how they measure the standby wait times.

I would be a little surprised to find that FP lines have gotten noticeably longer because I haven't seen either Touring Plans or easywdw report on that. In his recent report about wait times, Len Testa reported that, because of a smoother process of getting past the FP+ checkpoints, FP+ waits have been shorter in 2015 than in 2014. Specifically, he said:

"Since it’s faster to get into the FastPass+ line now than in 2014, standby lines are slightly longer.To put this in perspective, in 2014 we estimated that your wait to use FastPass+ was going to be 15 to 25% of the posted wait time. That’s closer to 10% in 2015. It’s not perfect – long lines still happen sometimes – but it’s better. And we think it’s increasing standby wait times slightly versus 2014."

It sounds like your experience with FP+ returns has been different than the Touring Plans team.

 

[Evoga]

We book all our fast passes for in the morning as we leave the parks by 1pm at the latest. That's for everyday over two weeks.

I find it the best use of fast pass for us due to it making for a more relaxing vacation.

 

[bcrook]

Your experience with FP lines is a lot different than mine has been, and is apparently different than what has been observed by the team at Touring Plans.

We almost always use our FPs in late afternoon or early evening, except on departure days, or days on which we have other evening plans. Over the last 2 years I have probably used more than 50 FPs, and I have waited 15-20 minutes maybe once or twice. The rest have all been 5-10 minutes or less, and that includes visits at Christmas and Easter with crowd level 10 days. The FP waits haven't been noticeably different than they were with paper FPs, though I guess if they were a couple of minutes longer I probably wouldn't notice because I didn't time them.

I will be spending a few days at WDW starting later this week as a couple of my daughters are running the half marathon. So, I'll be interested to see if the lines are noticeably different than they were on my previous trips, including this spring.

For consistency, when you time those lines, do you stop counting when you actually board a ride vehicle, or when you get past the merge point into the preshow or final boarding area? For some rides, that can make a pretty significant difference. I would usually focus on the point at which CMs would take those red cards because that apparently is how they measure the standby wait times.

I would be a little surprised to find that FP lines have gotten noticeably longer because I haven't seen either Touring Plans or easywdw report on that. In his recent report about wait times, Len Testa reported that, because of a smoother process of getting past the FP+ checkpoints, FP+ waits have been shorter in 2015 than in 2014. Specifically, he said:

"Since it’s faster to get into the FastPass+ line now than in 2014, standby lines are slightly longer.To put this in perspective, in 2014 we estimated that your wait to use FastPass+ was going to be 15 to 25% of the posted wait time. That’s closer to 10% in 2015. It’s not perfect – long lines still happen sometimes – but it’s better. And we think it’s increasing standby wait times slightly versus 2014."

It sounds like your experience with FP+ returns has been different than the Touring Plans team.

This picture is from Star Tours on a Friday afternoon. That is the FP+ return line. It was solid all through the ride. It took us 30 minutes from the time we got in the line until we were sent to a loading bay. I have pictures like this for Spaceship Earth, and TSMM.

The standby time was about an hour. I heard people walking by saying, "Why would you get in the FP+ line like that when the Standby line is much shorter?" The standby line was much shorter - but it had a 30 minute longer wait time.

The fact that we are starting to get longer and longer dedicated queues to accommodate the FP+ returns is a red flag to me.