Why I'm Scared of an Obama Presidency

[pr surfer]

To absolve them is dishonest.

ford family

The majority of germans alive today had nothing to do with the actions of Hitler.

 

[JaxJags08]

It's just amazing to me that in one thread Bush is a complete idiot and then the next he is a con artist who stole the election and fooled everyone into going into Iraq. Just pick one! Is he stupid or is he a con artist? Because a con artist that is good enough to make it into the Whitehouse is NOT stupid.

 

[Master Mason]

The majority of germans alive today had nothing to do with the actions of Hitler.

Absolutely no one that had anything to do with Slavery is alive today, and yet that is still our National Embarassment. Just because no one alive had anything to do with something, does not mean it is not still part of the culture.

 

[Master Mason]

It's just amazing to me that in one thread Bush is a complete idiot and then the next he is a con artist who stole the election and fooled everyone into going into Iraq. Just pick one! Is he stupid or is he a con artist? Because a con artist that is good enough to make it into the Whitehouse is NOT stupid.

What you expect rationality, how can they trash him effectively if they can't call him an idiot one moment and coniving another?

 

[graygables]

Is this thread about Obama or is to talk about why everywhere else is inferior to the United States? I don't get the elitist attitude at all. Other places have their problems just as we do but that doesn't mean that they're all the pits of hell. Isn't it possible to be proud of your country and yet be willing to acknowledge that some other countries aren't so bad either?

As for people trying to get into the United States, the US doesn't isn't the only nation dealing with that. Far from it in fact.

Precisely. (and, for the record, I'm a Republican, in case anyone thought otherwise based on the responses to my previous posts)

 

[NowaSki]

??? You mean to believe that deserters were not shot by the allied and specifically by the US forces during WWII?

http://worldwar2history.info/Army/deserters.html

Slovik's case excited comment and controversy. There was a hue and cry about Army justice. Eisenhower never backed away from his decision. He thought the case about as clear-cut as one could get. But whatever the merits, it helps put the Slovik execution in some perspective to mention that during the course of the eleven-month campaign in Northwest Europe, when Eisenhower had one deserter put to death, Hitler had 50,000 executed for desertion or cowardice.

 

[DawnCt1]

The majority of germans alive today had nothing to do with the actions of Hitler.

Of course not. WWII was more than 60 years ago. There are very few WWII vets still alive.

 

[Master Mason]

http://worldwar2history.info/Army/deserters.html

yes that was an interesting read. It also stated that deserters were returned to their units to continue fighting, they didn't get a free pass, so they didn't have a choice in fighting or not fighting except for maybe a short time while they were gone. Also, it does not talk about the deserters that were shot without trial either.

 

[graygables]

Even though the history lessons are straying OT, it's also important to remember that 1976 was the Bicentennial of the American Revolution here, but I spent the summer in England where it was the Bicentennial of the American REBELLION. It was very eye-opening. Also, growing up in Germany and having German godparents, the history we learn is most certainly revisionist (as is most history everywhere).

As further proof of Americans' inability to understand the world in which we live, when I moved back to the States, I was teased horrendously and called "Heidi" and "Nazi" all through high school because I had simply lived (on an American Army base) in Germany. The level of ignorance of my classmates and their parents was astonishing.

ETA: you won't find German citizens visiting the memorial at Dachau and being proud of it. It's part of their history that they acknowledge with national remorse. It's very much like going to the Arizona memorial in Hawaii and seeing the Japanese citizens there who are paying their respects. Very moving and there comes a time when Americans need to stop throwing mistakes of history in other nations' faces and move forward. Something about pulling the plank out of our own eye?

 

[NowaSki]

yes that was an interesting read. It also stated that deserters were returned to their units to continue fighting, they didn't get a free pass, so they didn't have a choice in fighting or not fighting except for maybe a short time while they were gone. Also, it does not talk about the deserters that were shot without trial either.

I never said they had a free pass.

I believe the 1 to 50,000 comparison says enough.

You mention those that were shot without trial, those would be undocumented and there is no proof of it happening or not. Even so, if it was documented that 50,000 Germans were executed for desertion, do you think the US had 49,999 undocumented deserted executed? How many German deserters were undocumented and executed?

Again, my point is the Hitler was not elected to power by the vast majority of Germans, the situation (economic and political) in Germany allowed him to grab control, and then use is SS troops to stay in control. Kinda how Sadam used the Republic Guard. I guess the people of China like living under a Communist govt, ... oh wait they tried some kind of uprising once, right? The Tiananmen Square massacre.

 

[Master Mason]

I never said they had a free pass.

I believe the 1 to 50,000 comparison says enough.

You mention those that were shot without trial, those would be undocumented and there is no proof of it happening or not. Even so, if it was documented that 50,000 Germans were executed for desertion, do you think the US had 49,999 undocumented deserted executed? How many German deserters were undocumented and executed?

Again, my point is the Hitler was not elected to power by the vast majority of Germans, the situation (economic and political) in Germany allowed him to grab control, and then use is SS troops to stay in control. Kinda how Sadam used the Republic Guard. I guess the people of China like living under a Communist govt, ... oh wait they tried some kind of uprising once, right? The Tiananmen Square massacre.

Yes you are correct, no more than 38% of the population voted for Hitler in the Presidential Elections, however they did vote for representatives from his party, making his party the largest party there 230 seats out of 608. And then 441 total representatives, many more than the 230 seats voted to suspend their constitution and to give Hitler total control.

I am not saying that the German people were good or bad because of Hilter, there were good ones and bad ones, just like anywhere else. And once he became the dictator, with the backing of the military and the police state that was created, it would have been very difficult for those good folks to have effected change. That is the nature of a dictatorship.

But back to my original responce to your post, being shot, or sent back to the lines, the fact remains the same that there were also US troops that would have greatly desired to be almost anywhere else than fighting, but they were not given a choice, their country drafted them to fight in a war, so they went and fought in the war.

 

[Purrrrfecta]

[/B]

If someone made a similarly bigoted statement about Obama's race, you'd go apoplectic, but bigotry about age? That A-OK with you Obama people. Well I've got a sharp-as-a-tack 71-year-old mother who thinks you're an idiot — and she's not voting for Obama.

And just so we can keep up to date, could you please list all the other groups of people you're comfortable being bigoted about?

Oh my. I am an idiot. I am a bigot. Jeesh.
I guess you didn't get it, my love.
Sorry.
Read it again brush up on your current events so you can understand what I meant.

What I was trying to say is you can not judge a person on a few mishaps. So who is the idiot now?????

and let me also add that you should watch what you call people. I do not care if you mother quoted it or not. Just because someone does not say what you want to hear does not give you a right to name call. I could say a lot of things about a lot of people, but I don't.

Since you write on this post a lot, be the bigger person here, and watch what you say.

 

[eliza61]

What you expect rationality, how can they trash him effectively if they can't call him an idiot one moment and coniving another?

Or that most folks calling him coniving are being kind. We just can't believe anyone could be that stupid.
Don't mind me, I don't like any politicians.

 

[Master Mason]

Or that most folks calling him coniving are being kind. We just can't believe anyone could be that stupid.
Don't mind me, I don't like any politicians.

So then explain to me. How can he be so stupid and yet at the same time have been able to "decieve" people into the war? How exactly would someone that stupid have been able to pull that off?

Sorry people like to talk out of both sides of their faces, simply depending on how they want to trash him at that particular moment in time.

As for the bolded point above, I don't dislike all politicians, just the current batch we have to deal with.

 

[Purrrrfecta]

You all don't seem to have a problem calling Bush ignorant and he went to Yale and got his MBA from Harvard Business School.

Who is you all????
Let me first inform you that I am a Republican.
Let me also inform you that I do not see Bush as ignorant. I see him as a person who sufferes from Attention Deficit Disorder. Not to say he was diagnosed with it, but he seems to have trouble keeping his thoughts in order.

 

[Purrrrfecta]

Stupid, conservative. When liberals make bigoted statements, it's sarcasm. When conservative do, it's bigotry. You just don't understand the nuance of the American left. You have to be really super intelligent to get it.

What makes you think I am a liberal????????
Do you know me????????????
Because I can identifiy spin in posts does not make me a liberal. It makes me observant. Please stop.

 

[NowaSki]

Yes you are correct, no more than 38% of the population voted for Hitler in the Presidential Elections, however they did vote for representatives from his party, making his party the largest party there 230 seats out of 608. And then 441 total representatives, many more than the 230 seats voted to suspend their constitution and to give Hitler total control.

I am not saying that the German people were good or bad because of Hilter, there were good ones and bad ones, just like anywhere else. And once he became the dictator, with the backing of the military and the police state that was created, it would have been very difficult for those good folks to have effected change. That is the nature of a dictatorship.

Thank you, this is what I've been trying to point out. An earlier poster implied that all of Germany went along with Hitler from the beginning and that is not true.

But back to my original responce to your post, being shot, or sent back to the lines, the fact remains the same that there were also US troops that would have greatly desired to be almost anywhere else than fighting, but they were not given a choice, their country drafted them to fight in a war, so they went and fought in the war.

In my original post I was attempting to demonstrate the fact that my Grandfathers were draftees sent to fight a war they did not believe in. I understand that in every war there will be deserters on both sides. I also wanted to point out the brutality used against the German Army during WWII to keep the men fighting (50,000 deserters executed). If 50,000 Germans died because they did not want to fight how many more did not believe in the war. As you stated above it was not a mass majority that put Hitler in power.

As a descendent of German immigrants, I am proud to be an American, but I am also proud of my German heritage. I do not deny WWII and the Holocaust were very terrible events (and should never be forgotten), but when it is implied that the majority of Germans supported Hitler and his plans I find it offensive.

Unless you live under an Dictator/Police State and know what that is like, you cannot put the blame on everyone.

 

[JaxJags08]

Who is you all????
Let me first inform you that I am a Republican.
Let me also inform you that I do not see Bush as ignorant. I see him as a person who sufferes from Attention Deficit Disorder. Not to say he was diagnosed with it, but he seems to have trouble keeping his thoughts in order.

It was directed to the bashing of Bush's intelligence by Dems that I have seen on this board. I thought you were a Democrat now too.

As a registered Republican I had to make the decision to change my party. My decision on who gets into office (Clinton or Obama) at this point has nothing to do with my "love" for one candidate or the other. Read my other posts. I let you know I knew nothing of Obama. I am close friends with a few people on Clinton's campaign, and I know first hand that what I am saying is correct. This is where my anger lies. I want a Dem to win.

 

[Purrrrfecta]

It was directed to the bashing of Bush's intelligence by Dems that I have seen on this board. I thought you were a Democrat now too.

I want a dem to win, and my reason for wanting one to win lies in my belief that there has to be a checks and balances with the way this country is structured.
When a small conglomerate of people maintain control of the country's wealth too many problems arise. We can see that with pharm companies etc. who are controlled by people in govt. Things have to change. I am not worried about the color of anyone's skin age,etc. I used to like McCain, but I am fearful that his changes on his beliefs are a direct result of his being controlled by other members of his party. I do not believe he is in control of what is going on. I think he knows that if he wants to win he has to follow the Bush legacy. 4 more years of McCain will equal 12 years of Bush. There will be no difference. The powers that lie will continue to be there.

 

[JaxJags08]

I want a dem to win, and my reason for wanting one to win lies in my belief that there has to be a checks and balances with the way this country is structured.
When a small conglomerate of people maintain control of the country's wealth too many problems arise. We can see that with pharm companies etc. who are controlled by people in govt. Things have to change. I am not worried about the color of anyone's skin age,etc. I used to like McCain, but I am fearful that his changes on his beliefs are a direct result of his being controlled by other members of his party. I do not believe he is in control of what is going on. I think he knows that if he wants to win he has to follow the Bush legacy. 4 more years of McCain will equal 12 years of Bush. There will be no difference. The powers that lie will continue to be there.

So are you voting for Obama because it is a vote against McCain? I have never been a McCain fan, but Obama's beliefs are SO far away from my own that there is no way that I could vote for him. I'm just curious how you or any other Republican out there could vote for Obama.

And as for your quote about a small group of people controlling the wealth and problems arising, what are you proposing? Sounds like socialism to me.