Why I Hate the DDP

[Mkrop]

Im thinking the CMs are unhappy because we were told by our server at Concourse Staekhouse tht they have them working 6 days and some are asked to work 7. Maybe they are burned out from the extar hours vs DDP or anything else. Just a thought!

 

[kaytieeldr]

That is a pretty definative answer. What is your source?

Deductive reasoning/logic/common sense

CRT went from
A pre-plated all you care to eat Character Breakfast combined with a non-character a la carte menu lunch and dinner, to
A similar pre-plated all you care to eat Character Breakfast combined with a limited-menu-option Character lunch combined with a limited-menu-option + limited Character dinner.

At the same time, the price per diner/meal increased (off the top of my head) about 50%.


So, the price goes up, the selection (depending on the meal) remains the same or goes down – how can that possibly be considered a result of, or even connection to, the DDP?

 

[kaytieeldr]

After reading the last 15 pages (and yes, I read every single post), as well as other threads on this same topic, the objection is that some who dislike the dining plan also express their contempt and disdain for those who would stoop to buying it -- and then there are all the little digs about "those kinds of people" who stay at value resorts, and they should go back to buying CS because they are cluttering up our TS restaurants and now everyone has to make reservations, now our lovely menus have been dumbed down for them, and they don't know the difference since they don't know what decent food is anyway, and a dinner at IHOP is a big night out to them...

First, kudos to you for reading the entire thread Interesting inference – you get that feeling too, huh? That the perceived classlessness of the DDP Guests is the primary (or only) cause of the menu changes?

Funny, I had thought that the menu's had eliminated some of my favorite appetizers (salmon at the R&C) and entree's (prime rib I haven't seen anywhere).

Additional research on wdwinfo.com and allearsnet shows the following sit-down restaurants have prime rib on the menu:
Boatwright’s as of 5/07
Concourse as of 3/07
Grand Floridian Café as of 4/07
Kona Café as of 3/07
Le Cellier as of 5/07
Olivia’s as of 3/07
Wolfgang Puck Grand Café (upstairs) as of 5/07
and likely:
Shula’s as of 8/06
Yachtsman Steakhouse as of 11/06
and possibly:
Shutters as of 11/06

And non-sushi salmon appetizers are available at
Bistro de Paris (11/06)
Chefs de France (4/07)
Grand Floridian Cafe (4/07)
Raglan Road (5/07)

 

[Marion]

After reading the last 15 pages (and yes, I read every single post), as well as other threads on this same topic, the objection is that some who dislike the dining plan also express their contempt and disdain for those who would stoop to buying it -- and then there are all the little digs about "those kinds of people" who stay at value resorts, and they should go back to buying CS because they are cluttering up our TS restaurants and now everyone has to make reservations, now our lovely menus have been dumbed down for them, and they don't know the difference since they don't know what decent food is anyway, and a dinner at IHOP is a big night out to them...

Bingo. That's the biggest irritation to me and a bit upsetting for our first trip. Purchasing the 'all inclusive package' seemed the sensible thing to me... I didn't realize I would now be wearing a contemptuous 'one of them' label!

 

[Barbers2005]

I didn't realize I would now be wearing a contemptuous 'one of them' label!

Maybe we could all get together and buy them in bulk. I bet we could save a lot of money that way.

 

[OWJAY]

I like Devil do not like to have to make dining plans 180 days in advance, however because of the popularity of the DDP had to do so. I figure if you can't beat them join them. My trip in Sept will be the first time I have ever used the dinning plan. I am very excited and can't wait to try different restaurants that I would never have been able to afford if not for the DDP.

Same here. We go in 8 days and we are on the DDP for the first time. I totally agree that we will probably eat at places that we would not normally be able to afford.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Maybe we could all get together and buy them in bulk. I bet we could save a lot of money that way.

Maybe we can get one of the Dis-ers on the Creative board to help design it? Isn't there a board, or a thread, specifically for t-shirts?

 

[wdwthreethiels]

Whenever we arrive at restaurants they ask us "Are you on DDP?".

does anyone know why?
we too, at every meal, this past week were asked if we were on the DDP?
why do they need to know before you even sit down?
bothered me a bit, but not enough to mess with the Magic
Michelle in NY

 

[wdwthreethiels]

I think there is obviously a difference for the CM's if you are on the DDP. We have never had the hostess ask us if we were on DDP, it has always been our server, so maybe like most things, it just depends. We always do CG on each trip and this past trip I think our server assumed we were on DDP (I really can't say for sure)-he was very brusque and just not the normal happy, conversational and animated CM we are used to there. He took our order and then asked for our DDP cards and we told him no, we were not on it, we had our DDE card though-kind of freaky cause almost instantaneously he was all smiles and joking with us and everything was good in the world again. This was not the first time we had that experience. Same thing at Narcoossee's, Jiko, AP and LC. By the end of our last trip we pretty much felt like celebrities with the CM's for not using DDP-quite a change from when we did. I would love to hear a CM's take on the whole set up.

same here, we were there last week, we have used the DDE for a few years, and are always taken by the reaction of the CM's when we arrive at the restaurant, the first question is "are you on the DDP"? when we say no, suddenly the mood changes a bit, perhaps it is the expectation of a gratuity?
Michelle in NY, first time DDP in September (will most likely leave with lots of credits still available.......)

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

I generally respond with something like, "We are on the plan, but we're not entirely certain if we're using it this meal. Thanks for asking!"

does anyone know why?
we too, at every meal, this past week were asked if we were on the DDP?
why do they need to know before you even sit down?
bothered me a bit, but not enough to mess with the Magic
Michelle in NY

 

[marivaid]

does anyone know why?
we too, at every meal, this past week were asked if we were on the DDP?
why do they need to know before you even sit down?

Because if you're on the plan the server needs to know so she can tell you exactly what's included and what isnt.

When I call to make ADRs they always ask if I'm on the plan. Since we dropped the DDP this time, and kept a few ADRs we had when we were on the plan, I called and asked if I should cancel & rebook. Was told no, but to give her my confirmation #s so she'd "move me".
It was a little strange. Where did she move me to ??

when we say no, suddenly the mood changes a bit, perhaps it is the expectation of a gratuity?

The DDP includes 18% gratuity. With the new rule of automatically adding the 18% to DDE users and removing it from the DDP, I bet we'll see a lot of comments like this "We get better service on the DDP because they have to earn their tips!".

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

Im thinking the CMs are unhappy because we were told by our server at Concourse Staekhouse tht they have them working 6 days and some are asked to work 7. Maybe they are burned out from the extar hours vs DDP or anything else. Just a thought!

Many CMs are burned out, but it's not always because of the DDP...numbers of guests at the parks have been going up, however hiring may not be so it puts extra strain on those CM's who are already working. Working 6 or 7 days a week can put a strain on anybody. I did it (not at WDW though) for two months a few years ago and it was horrible.

I'm still not exactly 100% sure why so many people blame DDP for everything. If Disney kept every single dish on their menu the exact same way for years, people wouldn't be happy about that. Portion sizes may have changed, but that's just what happens...it may cost more to buy the food...I don't know, but I'm just saying. Things change and there's nothing that can be done about that.

Personally, I'm going to enjoy the food that is served at WDW while I can because I only get there every so often and I'm going to savor every bite.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

Just seems highly unprofessional for someone who is in a position of authority in any kind of establishment to run down or bad mouth the operation to someone who they have a casual relationship with. If this was someone who you knew outside the parks or resorts and had a deeply personal relationship with it could be a reasonable expectation to say you may discuss such issues. Based on the above description of the relationship though ("friendly with them"), I find it hard to believe they are going to share all the company dirty laundry with a guest no matter often they in there. If these chefs are behaving in this manner, they are not professional by any stretch of the imagination and should be fired. The last thing any company needs is for someone of position in their organization to be discussing internal information with casual acquaintances.

By the way, re-read my post........I did not call you a liar because you may have been the recipient of some bad gossip from the source. I would bet if someone did give you such information they were probably on their way out because it would seem their loyalty is at question.

Our very close friend the architect should be fired as well is that your logic? We have seen some chefs well into the double digits and there is nothing wrong with chatting about property changes. When you have spent as many weeks in WDW as we have perhaps you will understand (when you add up our time we have spent over a year there, that is alot of time to get to know CMs).

 

[stevepete]

We don't use the DDP because we don't want to be "tied down" to anything so it doesn't work for us. I know it works for some (most) people and that's great for you. However, there is not doubt that since they introduced the plan, menus have changed. The bakery at the BW is a perfect example of this. The selection used to be huge offering several different types of donuts, cakes, cookies and yummy pasteries. We have watched the selection decrease every visit since the DDP was introduced. This is what bothers me. After talking with an employee there, we were told it was becuase of the plan that the selections were being limited. I don't know if it was because it was easier to offer what is included in the plan or what. What I do feel is why should my selection be limited because I don't think that the dining plan works for my family? Though it may seem insignificant to some, the Disney experience to others might have been that special "treat" that they were once able to get but now can't. I don't think many people go to Disney to listen to the bands (or insert your special "thing" here) but if they were to remove them, and leave only the most popular sights and sounds, it would go from being the "Disney experience" to the "Disney routine". Just my opinion!

 

[apostolic4life]

Our very close friend the architect should be fired as well is that your logic? We have seen some chefs well into the double digits and there is nothing wrong with chatting about property changes. When you have spent as many weeks in WDW as we have perhaps you will understand (when you add up our time we have spent over a year there, that is alot of time to get to know CMs).

No, if the architect is a close personal friend you probably will have in depth discussions about things concerning work, that what close personal friends do. I would guess those discussions would be in confidence as a close personal friend and not meant as fodder to make you seem more important on a discussion board about architecture. If my close personal friends used things given to them in confidence for fodder on a discussion board I would feel betrayed. Now, about the casual relationship you have with a chef (oops, now it is "chefs", more than one), why would they tell you everything they find wrong with WDW food operations......this makes no sense to me. I know my words will fall on deaf ears, but why would they possibly risk their livelihood by spilling conceivably confidential information to a guest whom they may only see a few times a year????

As for trying to discredit my professional opinion, I hope you find your inner peace.......I will say a prayer for that. Yes, you may have spent more time at WDW than I have, and I am happy for anyone who gets to frequent the happiest place on Earth so often.....someday maybe I can be blessed to have spent that much time at WDW with my beautiful family. I can only hope!!!! That said, no matter how much time I have spent at WDW in the future I hope I never think that puts me above others. Just my humble two cents.

 

[Katiebell]

Maybe we could all get together and buy them in bulk. I bet we could save a lot of money that way.

Only if we buy them at Walmart. Or get them on sale for at least 50% off.

same here, we were there last week, we have used the DDE for a few years, and are always taken by the reaction of the CM's when we arrive at the restaurant, the first question is "are you on the DDP"? when we say no, suddenly the mood changes a bit, perhaps it is the expectation of a gratuity?

I find this confusing -- if you were on the DDP, the server is guaranteed an 18% tip; a guest paying OOP using the DDE may tip that much or more, but may also tip considerably less. Well, unless the contract negotiations go the way they are being discussed and DDE guests will be automatically assessed an 18% tip. Then if the tip is guaranteed on the DDE, will people say they receive poor service when using it?

The bakery at the BW is a perfect example of this. The selection used to be huge offering several different types of donuts, cakes, cookies and yummy pasteries. We have watched the selection decrease every visit since the DDP was introduced. This is what bothers me. After talking with an employee there, we were told it was becuase of the plan that the selections were being limited. I don't know if it was because it was easier to offer what is included in the plan or what.

Didn't go to the bakery at BW, but went to the Boulangerie, Kringla, and the Main Street Bakery. All of them had excellent choices, so many that we had a hard time making a selection. I can't imagine what they would have been like if there had been even more choices.

Again, I still see people commenting, "Quality and selection have declined since the DDP," or "Portion sizes are so much smaller since the DDP," or "Signature items have disappeared from the menus since the DDP..." Those things may be true, but it doesn't mean that there is a cause and effect relationship with the DDP. The cause is that Disney set out to find ways to make their food service more profitable. They implemented a plan that included: standardizing menus somewhat (although we found plenty of variety and selection and didn't find ourselves eating the same dishes over and over); removing some signature dishes and high end ingredients from the menus, or excluding them from the DDP; providing the ME so guests don't rent a car so they stay at the parks; offering the Dining Plan so everyone will prepay for their meals. The DDP is part of that whole strategy and was implemented around the same time as many of those changes, but it is not the cause of everything else happening.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

We don't use the DDP because we don't want to be "tied down" to anything so it doesn't work for us. I know it works for some (most) people and that's great for you. However, there is not doubt that since they introduced the plan, menus have changed. The bakery at the BW is a perfect example of this. The selection used to be huge offering several different types of donuts, cakes, cookies and yummy pasteries. We have watched the selection decrease every visit since the DDP was introduced. This is what bothers me. After talking with an employee there, we were told it was becuase of the plan that the selections were being limited. I don't know if it was because it was easier to offer what is included in the plan or what. What I do feel is why should my selection be limited because I don't think that the dining plan works for my family? Though it may seem insignificant to some, the Disney experience to others might have been that special "treat" that they were once able to get but now can't. I don't think many people go to Disney to listen to the bands (or insert your special "thing" here) but if they were to remove them, and leave only the most popular sights and sounds, it would go from being the "Disney experience" to the "Disney routine". Just my opinion!

I agree with you.

DDP may not be responsible for all of the changes but its success must have had some effect.

Disney has admitted it has been a "success" which translates into more ADR's and customers in their TS restaurants. Changes in the TS restuarants would almost certainly have to be made in response to the increase in pressure on the kitchens. One way to streamline operations would be to decrease selections which I'm sure as an Executive Chef apostolic4life would agree with. In addition, the DDP would not create a market to upsell, rather since the price paid is independent of selections made, market pressure would be brought to bear to eliminate the pricier items in popular DDP spots.

I certainly am not saying DDP is the root of all evil but it is reasonable and logical to say that it would have some influence.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

First, kudos to you for reading the entire thread Interesting inference – you get that feeling too, huh? That the perceived classlessness of the DDP Guests is the primary (or only) cause of the menu changes?

Additional research on wdwinfo.com and allearsnet shows the following sit-down restaurants have prime rib on the menu:
Boatwright’s as of 5/07
Concourse as of 3/07
Grand Floridian Café as of 4/07
Kona Café as of 3/07
Le Cellier as of 5/07
Olivia’s as of 3/07
Wolfgang Puck Grand Café (upstairs) as of 5/07
and likely:
Shula’s as of 8/06
Yachtsman Steakhouse as of 11/06
and possibly:
Shutters as of 11/06

With the exeption of Le Cellier (where it is not the priciest item on the menu) none of the restaurants are located in the parks. It used to be on the R&C's menu and was the most expensive.

Unless I'm staying at that resort, I don't travel to resorts for a TS meal and I don't do DD either.

Perhaps the majority of DDP users go to TS restaurants inside the parks thereby concentrating the effect. Only Disney knows.

 

[Disney8704]

So weird they asked you when you made your ADRs. I made my LTT ADR for december before MVMCP (still have to cancel it) and they never asked if I was on the dining plan.

Because if you're on the plan the server needs to know so she can tell you exactly what's included and what isnt.

When I call to make ADRs they always ask if I'm on the plan. Since we dropped the DDP this time, and kept a few ADRs we had when we were on the plan, I called and asked if I should cancel & rebook. Was told no, but to give her my confirmation #s so she'd "move me".
It was a little strange. Where did she move me to ??



The DDP includes 18% gratuity. With the new rule of automatically adding the 18% to DDE users and removing it from the DDP, I bet we'll see a lot of comments like this "We get better service on the DDP because they have to earn their tips!".

 

[kaytieeldr]

With the exeption of Le Cellier (where it is not the priciest item on the menu) none of the restaurants are located in the parks. It used to be on the R&C's menu and was the most expensive.

Unless I'm staying at that resort, I don't travel to resorts for a TS meal and I don't do DD either.

Perhaps the majority of DDP users go to TS restaurants inside the parks thereby concentrating the effect. Only Disney knows.

Oh. I wasn't aware there were 'conditions'. I thought providing the locations where prime rib IS available would be enough.

Regarding the salmon being the most expensive app on the R&C menu, well, now that distinction goes to the prawns. Salmon is also not the most expensive appetizer on the Bistro de Paris or Raglan Road menus. However, if the cost of a menu item is important to the diner, salmon IS the most expensive appetizer on the Chefs de France menu.