Why I don't do Disney Cruises

After about 10 more minutes of research I can see that this report card is even more flawed then I suspected.

http://www.miamiherald.com/business/story/1239038.html

I don't think it's so much about whose article is right and whose is wrong, but this article you posted summed it up at the end-

``Nobody likes to be graded,'' Keever said. But the group hopes that by doing such a report card it will ``push the industry to do the upgrades they've been talking about,'' she added.

I agree- no matter what the grading was based on it is already common knowledge that unfortunately the cruise industry (and large ships in general) has one of the strongest negative impacts on the environment (when it comes to tourism). I don't know where other environmental groups have ranked Disney specifically, but hopefully a smart company like Disney can strive to do better and become a leader in greener cruising. I hope to see that someday.
 

I think its the amount of waste that is the problem. Besides there is probably some ameoba or something the eats dolphin waste. :)
 
It will be 2012 before we get to take our first Disney cruise, so by then I will have waited about six years. They could flush the toilets directly into the ocean and harpoon Willie from the deck....I'm taking my Disney cruise.






I'm really kidding, but I'm gonna get my cruise if its the last thing I do on this earth.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: I'm with you! :lmao:
 
I must be missing something-it's ok for dolphins and whales to poop in the ocean but not people?

Mental note- Don't swim down current from Kickapoo Joie Juice when at the beach :rotfl:

But realistically there are a lot of other issues too other than sewage. One of the hardest things is just the simple fact that cruise ships release a LOT of carbon emissions (something like 3 times as many emissions as planes). Most people also have to fly to the port which means they double their emissions right there (that part is not the cruise lines' fault, but they could help this by making more efficient ships)- I don't know how they could solve this completely other than going solar or something...but I am definitely not a scientist or engineer!

But there are a lot of other issues too (that could be solved more easily) and I know Disney is smart enough to come up with some solutions- look at how genius fast pass is- I can't remember what life was like before fast pass :).
 
I might be too optimistic, I know, but it seems that wherever Disney CAN be environmentally responsible, they do make an effort to do so. They may not go so far that they actually lose profit in order to stay green, but they make the effort.

While this report might be biased or incorrect, perhaps Disney will at least consider what they can do to ease the impact of their cruise ships on the environment.

At the same time, as someone who has never been on any cruise but very much wishes to go, I wouldn't want to have my cruise experience compromised to eliminate carbon emissions. Most people (well, me) seldom fly in a plane across the globe, or cruise on a big ship, or even use new towels every day at their WDW resort. It is an infrequent and treasured event to have a big vacation.

As challer and other posters have pointed out, the greatest impact we can make when it comes to environmental issues surrounds the daily choices we make with respect to transportation, food, purchases, etc. If we can all improve there then the splurges may, in balance, not be so harmful.

Thanks for giving us all something to consider.
 
I might be too optimistic, I know, but it seems that wherever Disney CAN be environmentally responsible, they do make an effort to do so. They may not go so far that they actually lose profit in order to stay green, but they make the effort.

I don't believe you are too optimistic. I just got back from the DVC member cruise a couple of days ago (I also was on the Wonder a couple of months ago during the 4th of July weekend).

During each cruise Disney liked to "toot their horn" about how they invented and patented a special paint that they use to paint the hull. The paint reduces friction which, in turn, reduces the amount of fuel needed to propel the ship.

Also, Disney recycles all of its fryer grease and uses it to make diesel fuel to power vehicles on Castaway Cay. This alone saves over 8,000 gallons of diesel fuel a year.

How about all the water that Disney recovers from use on the ship (dishwashing, sinks (errr... not toilets though) and uses that water (after disinfecting it) to power wash the decks. This saves over 500,000 gallons of water a year.

There were many more situations that Disney was very eco-friendly. Interesting that this information is missing in these "reports".



__________________
Armand
 
I don't believe you are too optimistic. I just got back from the DVC member cruise a couple of days ago (I also was on the Wonder a couple of months ago during the 4th of July weekend).

During each cruise Disney liked to "toot their horn" about how they invented and patented a special paint that they use to paint the hull. The paint reduces friction which, in turn, reduces the amount of fuel needed to propel the ship.

Also, Disney recycles all of its fryer grease and uses it to make diesel fuel to power vehicles on Castaway Cay. This alone saves over 8,000 gallons of diesel fuel a year.

How about all the water that Disney recovers from use on the ship (dishwashing, sinks (errr... not toilets though) and uses that water (after disinfecting it) to power wash the decks. This saves over 500,000 gallons of water a year.

There were many more situations that Disney was very eco-friendly. Interesting that this information is missing in these "reports".

This is all great, and every little bit helps. And Disney has always been ahead of the curve in these issues.

However, back to the Miami Herald Article:

CLIA said the grades in the report card ``clearly ignore the fact that our cruise lines comply with and in most cases exceed all applicable environmental regulations set by the federal government and other regulatory bodies around the world.''

Therein lies the problem - the shipping industry standards have always been extremely lax, especially set by our federal government. In fact, the FAA does an infinitely better job with their environmental regulations on the airline industry than what the shipping industry does. (See how Florida's standards are different and less stringent than California & Alaska - all US waters.)

Am I being unfair to expect Disney to lead the way here, and not just "comply with" the standards set? Disney always seems to take pride in how they set the bar and then surpass it - why not here?

For me (and I'm speaking just for me), DCL needs to do better - not just with sewage treatment technology, air pollution reduction and water quality (as the study deals with), but also with the use of fossil fuels and oil. I'm not expecting any sweeping changes with the next 2 boats, but I'd hope for improvements. I feel that if one cruise fleet is going to lead the way, it should be DCL. Disney has brought us to expect them to be leaders, which is a good thing for a company. I'm just holding back my credit card until I see it.

Once more - I only single out DCL because I couldn't care less about cruising with anyone else. I'm a Disney freak. If I'm not going on a Disney vacation, I'd rather hit a National Park, a beach resort, or a new & interesting city than go on a boat.
 
I don't believe you are too optimistic. I just got back from the DVC member cruise a couple of days ago (I also was on the Wonder a couple of months ago during the 4th of July weekend).

During each cruise Disney liked to "toot their horn" about how they invented and patented a special paint that they use to paint the hull. The paint reduces friction which, in turn, reduces the amount of fuel needed to propel the ship.

Also, Disney recycles all of its fryer grease and uses it to make diesel fuel to power vehicles on Castaway Cay. This alone saves over 8,000 gallons of diesel fuel a year.

How about all the water that Disney recovers from use on the ship (dishwashing, sinks (errr... not toilets though) and uses that water (after disinfecting it) to power wash the decks. This saves over 500,000 gallons of water a year.

There were many more situations that Disney was very eco-friendly. Interesting that this information is missing in these "reports".



__________________
Armand

These are a couple of the examples that I had... In addition Disney has only developed 10% of Castaway Cay to keep the rest of the island as it was and will be.

As for my family we are by no means environmental activists, but we drive a hybrid (and have for many years), and we hardly ever fly down to Florida for our Disney vacations, be it cruises or otherwise. Hopefully our actions might cancel out those of another family, but I feel like we do our part.
 
These are a couple of the examples that I had... In addition Disney has only developed 10% of Castaway Cay to keep the rest of the island as it was and will be.

As for my family we are by no means environmental activists, but we drive a hybrid (and have for many years), and we hardly ever fly down to Florida for our Disney vacations, be it cruises or otherwise. Hopefully our actions might cancel out those of another family, but I feel like we do our part.

Is that like when Joey gave up meat so Phoebe could eat pepperoni when she was pregnant?
 
These are a couple of the examples that I had... In addition Disney has only developed 10% of Castaway Cay to keep the rest of the island as it was and will be.

As for my family we are by no means environmental activists, but we drive a hybrid (and have for many years), and we hardly ever fly down to Florida for our Disney vacations, be it cruises or otherwise. Hopefully our actions might cancel out those of another family, but I feel like we do our part.

Is it wrong to want Disney to develop more of Castaway Cay for 9 or maybe 18 holes of golf?:rotfl:
 
the shipping industry standards have always been extremely lax, especially set by our federal government. . . .

Am I being unfair to expect Disney to lead the way here, and not just "comply with" the standards set? Disney always seems to take pride in how they set the bar and then surpass it - why not here?

For me (and I'm speaking just for me), DCL needs to do better - not just with sewage treatment technology, air pollution reduction and water quality (as the study deals with), but also with the use of fossil fuels and oil. . . . .

Chad,

We probably agree on more than we disagree but my thoughts on the topics (as I abbreviated your post) are more practical. No matter how environmentally sensitive it is, it is always possible for any "polluter" (of any size) to do better. The question is always how much better at how much cost. Cows emit methane, collectively, in harmful quantities (from burping, I am told) but how much are we willing to increase the price of milk to eliminate or significantly reduce those emissions. Some are willing (and able) to pay more than others but that approaches a political issue more than an environmental one (it should be no surprise that environmental law courses are as much a course on politics as legal issues).

The problem I have with the FOE report cited in the Miami Herald is that it did not explain its methods, just gave out grades. The "standards" they used were not explained except in highly general and ambiguous terms: how do you measure whether a line installs "the most advanced sewage and wastewater treatment systems available" or whether the line was "dumping raw or minimally treated sewage directly into the water." It would make me quite :mad: to be graded on such vague standards on any subject and led me to wonder whether FOE issued the grade sheet for its own publicity benefit. You get a lot of free press by attacking Disney.

So there is the big problem. The setting of environmental standards is a horribly complex undertaking. It is a mixture of health and cost (risk and benefit) as well as location. Whenever any regulation is issued there will be an inevitable and costly legal challenge. Cruise ship discharges are a good example. The EPA has been studying discharge standards from cruise ships since 2000, when Congress passed an appropriations bill setting discharge standards for Alaska and telling the EPA to develop additional standards. Perhaps it shouldn't be that way, but again, that is a political question. My point (and view) is that it helps no one to be alarmist and sensational - one way or the other. (To be clear, I am not saying your posts have been alarmist or sensational.)

Disney's corporate responsibility page has links (which, as is so typical, sometimes don't work) to Disney's corporate environmental initiatives and its forward looking initiatives for the environment (which are admittedly general) can be found here. DCL's environmental page can be found here. The video Armand described (I think) can be seen on the DCL site.

Strangely, they say nothing about pixie dust power.
 
Chad,

We probably agree on more than we disagree but my thoughts on the topics (as I abbreviated your post) are more practical. No matter how environmentally sensitive it is, it is always possible for any "polluter" (of any size) to do better. The question is always how much better at how much cost. Cows emit methane, collectively, in harmful quantities (from burping, I am told) but how much are we willing to increase the price of milk to eliminate or significantly reduce those emissions. Some are willing (and able) to pay more than others but that approaches a political issue more than an environmental one (it should be no surprise that environmental law courses are as much a course on politics as legal issues).

The problem I have with the FOE report cited in the Miami Herald is that it did not explain its methods, just gave out grades. The "standards" they used were not explained except in highly general and ambiguous terms: how do you measure whether a line installs "the most advanced sewage and wastewater treatment systems available" or whether the line was "dumping raw or minimally treated sewage directly into the water." It would make me quite :mad: to be graded on such vague standards on any subject and led me to wonder whether FOE issued the grade sheet for its own publicity benefit. You get a lot of free press by attacking Disney.

So there is the big problem. The setting of environmental standards is a horribly complex undertaking. It is a mixture of health and cost (risk and benefit) as well as location. Whenever any regulation is issued there will be an inevitable and costly legal challenge. Cruise ship discharges are a good example. The EPA has been studying discharge standards from cruise ships since 2000, when Congress passed an appropriations bill setting discharge standards for Alaska and telling the EPA to develop additional standards. Perhaps it shouldn't be that way, but again, that is a political question. My point (and view) is that it helps no one to be alarmist and sensational - one way or the other. (To be clear, I am not saying your posts have been alarmist or sensational.)

Disney's corporate responsibility page has links (which, as is so typical, sometimes don't work) to Disney's corporate environmental initiatives and its forward looking initiatives for the environment (which are admittedly general) can be found here. DCL's environmental page can be found here. The video Armand described (I think) can be seen on the DCL site.

Strangely, they say nothing about pixie dust power.


Well said. I agree with what you said (except for the cows/methane - 1. it's not burping, 2. milk production has nothing to do with it, but the issue of grass-fed vs. corn-fed does, as does the issue of how much meat this country eats).

Yes, the actual study requires examination before sentencing DCL to life in dry dock. And, yes, knocking Disney does get you somewhere. However, I don't think a report saying that DCL leads the way would change the effect on the cruises:t'll be like eveything else: everyone wants to catch up to Disney.

Again, I'm not condemning DCL, nor am I making a political statement, nor am I making any decisions based on this study. All I am doing is sharing a report, and sharing my decision that I choose not to cruise because I find the pleasure gains don't justify the environmental/climate/energy price. To each his/her own.

And I am sharing my thoughts that, while DCL has done some things that are innovative in terms of environmentality, I thought they'd be much more ahead of the curve than they are.
 
I'll admit I could have been more precise on the cows. I wanted to be colorful not controversial.
 












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