Why dont people plan?

[whiporee]

Doesn't Disneyland have the same 45 day cancellation policy? And their booking times are much shorter than WDW. You don't even get park hours until about 6 weeks-2months out. Dining opens at 60 days.

I don't know much about DLR, but I'm pretty sure they don't have 30,000 resort rooms (and average of 90,000 daily guests) onsite to deal with. And my understanding is that leads to fewer destination visitors -- fewer people in the onsite bubble, so less demand for restaurants. But I don't know. I would imagine once they switch to FP+ (if they ever do) they'll have the same kind of windows as for FP reservations, but I don't know about that, either. I know the population of Los Angeles is nine times that of Orlando -- translating to 16 million more people -- so I think there's a pretty good chance they get more locals visiting the park, and those folks tend to have more dining options. But that's just guessing.

I also don't know why it matters why this is such a big sticking point to people. It's not required, and I don't know why someone would be more sure of the hypothetical Wednesday at 1 sixty days ahead of time than 180 -- it's still a long way out to pick a meal.

 

[Angel Ariel]

ETA: I also don't understand the thought that the 180 day dining reservation window has anything to do with the 45 day cancellation policy, because dining and accommodations at WDW are totally separate. I don't need a hotel reservation to book an ADR, and I can cancel an ADR up until 24 hrs beforehand with no penalty at all whether I have a package or hotel room booked or not.

I don't know much about DLR, but I'm pretty sure they don't have 30,000 resort rooms (and average of 90,000 daily guests) onsite to deal with.

If you're comparing solely Disney owned hotels to Disney owned hotels, then yes, that statement is accurate. It's a poor way to compare the two, though, as the "resort area" for DLR really incorporates Anaheim in a way that is much different than Orlando w/WDW. There are so many offsite hotels within easy walking distance, and also easy driving distance. There are appx 20,400 hotel rooms in Anaheim itself. I don't think that's as small as it seems like you expect it to be. Disneyland is just behind Magic Kingdom in overall attendance, at 18.5 million visitors this past year (not including DCA attendance).

And my understanding is that leads to fewer destination visitors -- fewer people in the onsite bubble, so less demand for restaurants. But I don't know.

Having been to DLR many times, IMO there is more of a demand for counter service restaurants at DLR than there is at WDW, and their counter service options are substantially better than WDW's because of that. There's a plethora of offsite dining options that are easily accessible from the parks, so people have more choices than they do onsite at WDW. More restaurants to choose from = more flexibility.

I would also point out that WDW used to have shorter time windows for dining, and it wasn't any worse than it is now (save for the technology...trying to snab CRT online at 6am at 180 is a lot better than trying to call WDW when the window opens to snag the reservation like you had to back then). Putting dining at 180, IMO, has nothing to do with guest experience and everything to do with WDW wanting people to plan more in advance and keep you onsite.

I would imagine once they switch to FP+ (if they ever do) they'll have the same kind of windows as for FP reservations, but I don't know about that, either.

They are currently testing a paperless FP option that would work by scanning barcodes. Rumors at this point in time are that the rules of legacy will remain the same - same day only, have to be in a park, can only have 1 at a time, and can get your next one when the window opens or 2 hrs later, whichever comes first. I would be very surprised to see them go to a 60/30 day option because they have a difficult time having their park hours released at 60 days.

I also don't know why it matters why this is such a big sticking point to people. It's not required, and I don't know why someone would be more sure of the hypothetical Wednesday at 1 sixty days ahead of time than 180 -- it's still a long way out to pick a meal.

You're assuming the sticking point is knowing what you want to eat. That may be it for some people, it isn't for me. For me it's that my life is crazy busy and trying to plan for things 6 months out is very difficult, because I need the time to plan for what's happening in the week and month that I'm in. I am very good at time management, it's just the nature of my life and our schedules at the moment. It was October before dining opened for our trip to DLR in November last year. A month out I am already getting in gear for getting ready to go on the trip, so thinking about dining and such then is part of my planned out time already.

I'm sure some people won't understand that, and that's fine, but it's my reality and so I very much appreciate that Disneyland planning is so much less time consuming than WDW.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Added thought...even in 2007 our WDW planning was *so* much easier. We didn't plan that trip until less than 2 months out. We had *no* problems booking signature restaurants. They were easily available on my first call. All I did in advance was book the hotel and dining, and a few special surprises for DH as he was returning from deployment. I didn't *need* to make those plans in advance, I did so so that I didn't have to do them after he returned and it would be harder to make the plans w/o him overhearing.

It was much like what DLR is now. So much less complicated and so much less stressful.

 

[tndisneyfan]

Further...I stess greatly to friends NEVER to make a Disney plan less then 6 months out.....I am not sure if Disney wants that as word of mouth advertising

After my most recent trip, the daughter of a coworker mentioned that she would like me to help her plan a trip when they decided to go. I told her I would be glad to do it, but I needed to get with her about 8 months before her planned date to get her prepared because dining basically needs to be done six months in advance. I haven't heard back from her, I may have scared her off.

 

[Angel Ariel]

After my most recent trip, the daughter of a coworker mentioned that she would like me to help her plan a trip when they decided to go. I told her I would be glad to do it, but I needed to get with her about 8 months before her planned date to get her prepared because dining basically needs to be done six months in advance. I haven't heard back from her, I may have scared her off.

This is why I usually work with whatever their timeline is. I am realistic with them about what may or may not be able to be booked depending on how far in advance they can plan, but I have a lot of friends who just can't plan 6+ months in advance. It just isn't possible for a variety of reasons, mostly career related. I don't want to scare them off of a trip wntirely, but don't set them up to think they can get everything either. There's always trade offs. So far most seem to go and have a good time, even those on short notice

 

[ChloesDaddy]

There are varied reasons for not planning that include -- 1) don't need to because of extensive experience, 2) don't want to because of a desire for spontaneity, 3) don't feel the need due to a lack of awareness, 4) simply fail to plan due to other priorities, and 5) pure laziness (there are certainly other degrees and variations on these).

Whether you call it planning, education, preparation or something else, it's up to each person to engage in it at a level commensurate with their expectations. Anytime you see or hear about someone having a meltdown because they were unaware of what it takes to do something they want to do, it's because they didn't prepare in accordance with their expectations. This is true in general, not just at Disney.

As a PP noted, it doesn't make sense for someone to put something on a "must do" list, do nothing to educate themselves about how to make sure they are able to it, and then get upset with Disney or anyone else when they find out there was something they needed to do to prepare and didn't.

 

[Keyser]

One thought I've had after reading: In many ways the super-long ADR booking is a benefit to prevent the random/lottery/race-to-the-front effect. The fundamental problem is that there is more demand for some resource (restaurant seatings) than there is supply, and so Disney has to have a way to allocate it. There's no way around that fundamental fact, unless Disney somehow decreases demand (unlikely...) or manages to increase supply (difficult to really accomplish effectively). No matter what, there are going to be some people wanting to eat at X and not being able to, as long as demand exceeds supply. And almost certainly, the "advance planners" are going to end up winning the battle for the scarce resource, regardless of the method put into place. So, Disney uses advance dining reservations as a way of allocating the resource, and then they have to pick some date to start taking them.

Despite what some people run into occasionally, very very few places fill up at the 180 day mark. As time goes on, more and more slots will get filled up (and new ones will sometimes open). The people who plan ahead get the reservations. But, people planning at the 175 day mark or 170, or 165 will still find lots of reservations available. From Disney's perspective, the farther in advance they take reservations, the less likely someone is to have to make sure they are booking at 7:00:01 a.m. (or whatever time they start) just to get a reservation. There's a smooth fall-off in terms of ADR availability, rather than them disappearing in the first 5 minutes they're available.

We're going at a busy time (week of July 4), and I didn't make my reservations at the 180 day mark, and still got just about everything I wanted. I didn't get BOG dinner (but had dinner options at times that I didn't want and many lunch options), my Boma reservation was 20 minutes later than ideal, and my 'Ohana reservation was 30 minutes earlier than ideal, but everything else was exactly what I wanted to begin with. I've even changed several of these around within the 60 day mark.

That's all a long way of saying that as long as they have ADRs, I think the 180 day booking window (or even longer) is actually better for than a short booking window would be. Doing away with ADRs entirely might be another option, but you can imagine the issues that would create! The FP+ situation is kind of similar, and might actually benefit from going to an even longer period of advance booking...

 

[whiporee]

ETA: I also don't understand the thought that the 180 day dining reservation window has anything to do with the 45 day cancellation policy, because dining and accommodations at WDW are totally separate. I don't need a hotel reservation to book an ADR, and I can cancel an ADR up until 24 hrs beforehand with no penalty at all whether I have a package or hotel room booked or not.



If you're comparing solely Disney owned hotels to Disney owned hotels, then yes, that statement is accurate. It's a poor way to compare the two, though, as the "resort area" for DLR really incorporates Anaheim in a way that is much different than Orlando w/WDW. There are so many offsite hotels within easy walking distance, and also easy driving distance. There are appx 20,400 hotel rooms in Anaheim itself. I don't think that's as small as it seems like you expect it to be. Disneyland is just behind Magic Kingdom in overall attendance, at 18.5 million visitors this past year (not including DCA attendance).



Having been to DLR many times, IMO there is more of a demand for counter service restaurants at DLR than there is at WDW, and their counter service options are substantially better than WDW's because of that. There's a plethora of offsite dining options that are easily accessible from the parks, so people have more choices than they do onsite at WDW. More restaurants to choose from = more flexibility.

I would also point out that WDW used to have shorter time windows for dining, and it wasn't any worse than it is now (save for the technology...trying to snab CRT online at 6am at 180 is a lot better than trying to call WDW when the window opens to snag the reservation like you had to back then). Putting dining at 180, IMO, has nothing to do with guest experience and everything to do with WDW wanting people to plan more in advance and keep you onsite.



They are currently testing a paperless FP option that would work by scanning barcodes. Rumors at this point in time are that the rules of legacy will remain the same - same day only, have to be in a park, can only have 1 at a time, and can get your next one when the window opens or 2 hrs later, whichever comes first. I would be very surprised to see them go to a 60/30 day option because they have a difficult time having their park hours released at 60 days.



You're assuming the sticking point is knowing what you want to eat. That may be it for some people, it isn't for me. For me it's that my life is crazy busy and trying to plan for things 6 months out is very difficult, because I need the time to plan for what's happening in the week and month that I'm in. I am very good at time management, it's just the nature of my life and our schedules at the moment. It was October before dining opened for our trip to DLR in November last year. A month out I am already getting in gear for getting ready to go on the trip, so thinking about dining and such then is part of my planned out time already.

I'm sure some people won't understand that, and that's fine, but it's my reality and so I very much appreciate that Disneyland planning is so much less time consuming than WDW.

I wasn't trying to say it was small, just that people at the WDW resorts are more isolated than those at DLR. Because DLR is not as isolated as WDW, people have other dining opportunities than the ones DLR offers. Also, because most of them are staying not onsite, they are forced into the "real world" at a higher pace than those who are staying at a WDW resort, and therefore have more options for dining. And honestly, if you ask most WDW visitors, they'd prefer more options than to be stuck with what WDW offers. But that's not the way it works at WDW -- it's intentionally isolated, so the dining options it has are more in demand.

 

[thegoof121]

We generally don't plan very far in advance. Generally, we only know our schedules 2-3 months outs, and will only grab hotel reservations at that time. Park plans and Fastpasses are determined generally the night before. We go often enough that it's not a big deal if we don't see everything. We've had issues grabbing some dining reservations because of this, but generally can find what we want with some patience. The biggest issue we've had is finding Ft. Wilderness reservations. The campground can feel up way far in advance sometimes.

Part of the fun of going to a theme park for me is the ability to just wander around arbitrarily doing fun stuff, so overplanning would ruin that. Our party also really doesn't have a good idea of their schedules more than a few months out.

 

[Dec38]

There are varied reasons for not planning that include -- 1) don't need to because of extensive experience, 2) don't want to because of a desire for spontaneity, 3) don't feel the need due to a lack of awareness, 4) simply fail to plan due to other priorities, and 5) pure laziness (there are certainly other degrees and variations on these).

Whether you call it planning, education, preparation or something else, it's up to each person to engage in it at a level commensurate with their expectations. Anytime you see or hear about someone having a meltdown because they were unaware of what it takes to do something they want to do, it's because they didn't prepare in accordance with their expectations. This is true in general, not just at Disney.

As a PP noted, it doesn't make sense for someone to put something on a "must do" list, do nothing to educate themselves about how to make sure they are able to it, and then get upset with Disney or anyone else when they find out there was something they needed to do to prepare and didn't.

I agree with this. Everyone has different priorities for their Disney trip. Hard core planning makes sense for those who want to experience as much as possible, including headliner attractions and hard to get dining. But it is possible to get by with much less planning if your priorities are more low key. I have been to Disney a bunch of times, and this is the first trip I am really extensively planning, months in advance. In past trips, we had babies/toddlers with us and we were just taking a long weekend to visit with extended family, and the main goal was to (a) spend time with extended family, and (b) soak up some Disney atmosphere. We weren't there to ride the headliner attractions. We were content to watch the parades and shows, and do a few rides. I am planning this trip much more extensively because I expect more this time. It is our big vacation this year. My kids will be prime Disney ages at almost 5 and 7. While we will not be park commandos, since we will take afternoon breaks and have more leisurely evenings, we do expect to see and do quite a bit in our 8 days. We want to eat in Cinderella's castle and at BOG, Ohana, and lots of other hard to get places--so I knew to be on top of this at 180 days out. We are also going in summer rather than low crowd January. So it's a different ball game this time. We had perfectly enjoyable trips in the past, but our expectations are different this time. And so this trip has an extra level of planning involved.

 

[Duckiedee]

I love Disney planning and would be happy to pour over it with anyone to help them out. But it only takes a few words for most to feel you are crazy-obsessed and to glaze-over.

People have NO idea - or think the fact they visited 20+ years ago when they were a kid, makes the planning easy today.... sigh.

Why do I worry so much for others' 'good time' and 'value for money spent' LOL.

 

[Merx]

I consider myself one of the lucky ones.

As an international visitor going to WDW for the first time, we don't get anything in the mail from Disney, in fact, it was quite a bit of work and 2 months for the Planning DVD to shipped to us. 10 months ago I thought WDW = Cinderella Castle/Magic Kingdom and I couldn't tell how many parks are in WDW.

Initially I would have booked my trip about 5 months in advance and my DW was saying that I'm crazy for booking the trip SO FAR OUT in advance, as she thinks "we're bound to get some last minute specials!". But luckily I landed on a planning website and I too hopped onto the planning train, started reading blogs, guide books, forums, and listened to tons of podcast.

As I said, I considered myself lucky to know about what is involved, or otherwise it wouldn't have been very enjoyable for me (I'm a planning and winging it is not enjoyable for me)

 

[Davey Jones II]

I agree with this. Everyone has different priorities for their Disney trip. Hard core planning makes sense for those who want to experience as much as possible, including headliner attractions and hard to get dining. But it is possible to get by with much less planning if your priorities are more low key. I have been to Disney a bunch of times, and this is the first trip I am really extensively planning, months in advance. In past trips, we had babies/toddlers with us and we were just taking a long weekend to visit with extended family, and the main goal was to (a) spend time with extended family, and (b) soak up some Disney atmosphere. We weren't there to ride the headliner attractions. We were content to watch the parades and shows, and do a few rides. I am planning this trip much more extensively because I expect more this time. It is our big vacation this year. My kids will be prime Disney ages at almost 5 and 7. While we will not be park commandos, since we will take afternoon breaks and have more leisurely evenings, we do expect to see and do quite a bit in our 8 days. We want to eat in Cinderella's castle and at BOG, Ohana, and lots of other hard to get places--so I knew to be on top of this at 180 days out. We are also going in summer rather than low crowd January. So it's a different ball game this time. We had perfectly enjoyable trips in the past, but our expectations are different this time. And so this trip has an extra level of planning involved.

Exactly. The higher your expectations for a trip, the more you HAVE to plan. If you want to squeeze all you can out of your WDW vacation, especially multiple rides on headliners, planning is the price you pay (aside from the $$$ you pay). But if your expectations are modest, you can ease up more and "go with the flow."

The latter attitude works better for people who go to the World pretty often. But if you can rarely afford to go, it's harder to accept missing out on the best attractions.

 

[whiporee]

Exactly. The higher your expectations for a trip, the more you HAVE to plan. If you want to squeeze all you can out of your WDW vacation, especially multiple rides on headliners, planning is the price you pay (aside from the $$$ you pay). But if your expectations are modest, you can ease up more and "go with the flow."

Holy cow. I agree with Davey. Dog and cats living together is coming next

Seriously, that's the perfect answer to all of this.

 

[JimmyV]

I guarantee you that an hour before you're ready to eat, you could check MDE and find SOMEWHERE to eat.

When people spend $5k+ on their vacation, they don't want "SOMEWHERE" to eat. They want the perfect place to eat.

The fundamental problem is that there is more demand for some resource (restaurant seatings) than there is supply, and so Disney has to have a way to allocate it. There's no way around that fundamental fact, unless Disney somehow decreases demand (unlikely...) or manages to increase supply (difficult to really accomplish effectively).

And yet, DLR has a bigger supply/demand gap and yet doesn't have these same issues.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I do believe the entire hysteria is Disney's doing. There is no need for it. There wasn't in the past, and still isn't at DLR.
I wouldn't doubt Disney restricts the ADR's just to create the frenzy and get people booking early, then slowly release a few slits over time.
Disney has totally lost my trust over the last ten years. I used to be an apologist.

MG

 

[jkstewart1800]

The word "planning" means different things to different people. We just booked a last minute trip (less than 3 weeks notice). What was available directed what we were able to do, and for us since we have been so much, works out just fine. We picked the hotel because it was the only Deluxe with a military rate left, some of our ADRs were chosen because of availability.... and for those hard to get ones (NOT CRT that's impossible) but th PPO CP I just stalked the website ever morning at 7am! LOL But thats about as much as I am doing. I got all the FP we wanted except SDMT.

 

[jkstewart1800]

I just made dinner reservations at WL for November. Guess I should have stayed up all night at the 180 mark. I thought since WL is half empty we'd we able to eat there at a decent time. With small kids who normally go to bed at 6:30-7:00, eating at 6:30 is problematic. We didn't really want to drag them to a park late in the day to eat. I am a planner but I think it's overboard when a half empty hotel is full at opening 6 months ahead it's a problem. Learning .....

Instead of trecking to the parks, why not get a 5:15 ressie at the wave or 1900 or Kona? Boat to CR then monrail, back before bed!

 

[srauseo]

I am helping my friend plan her trip this November. She started talking to me about it a while ago because she knows I am a junkie and a planner. Then she got a divorce and asked me to go with her and the kids in place of her ex. Of course I said yes. Basically, she is letting me plan the whole thing. It's going to be their big first trip - she has three kids between 5 and 9. Perfect. I'm so excited to do it. And she's basically saying yes to whatever I say. But she's also being helpful - she got online with me this morning to make ADRs so we could divide and conquer the list. But otherwise, she'd have a lot of catching up to do. She didn't realize you could make ADRs for arrival day +10 at 180 days, and what mornings you could make PPO breakfasts, etc. It's a lot to wrap your head around.

 

[MariMama]

Same song here. The first time we went in 2007, I thought I had planned. We knew about fastpasses (put your card in, get a FP), and I knew to get to the kiosks early and all the rules. I knew the restaurants but had no idea about reservations. Thankfully, when we stopped in City Hall to look around, a sharp CM spotted the cluelessness immediately and helped us get ressies where available. We still had a great trip.

But I am a planner by nature, having earned the unfortunate title "trip nazi" long before our WDW days. Our subsequent trips have included all the planning. I do it because I love it. Case in point, we are leaving a year from today, soooo...yeah, I'm taking a 1/2 day vacation on that magical day in November when our ADR window opens. And the great part is, my manager is a Disney nut too. When I told her we had set our dates, she said, "So, you can have the morning of your ADRs off." Yeah--that's pretty awesome.

I get asked for help all the time, and I always have a few immediate questions: when are you going, what is your budget, and how much of a crazy planner are you? Then I recommend according to those answers. QS restaurants recommendations are the way to go when dealing with people who think reserving dinner 6 months prior is certafreakingfiable. Disney Springs shops are a safe suggestion. I advise them that availability will be nonexistent or limited at best for BOG, CRT, 7DMT, etc. For people who have a year or more, it's all in, baby! We have spreadsheets and binders, etc. It's all in who you're dealing with.

Taking off work to plan where you are going to eat in six months means that vacation is too much work.