Why can SSR owners book other DVC resorts...

[Maistre Gracey]

Originally posted by Maistre Gracey
While I cetainly understand the OP's point, I just don't see the big deal. As long as all other resorts can start booking SSR at the same time, does it really make any difference? As another poster pointed out, for every room a SSR owner takes from BW, there will be another room open at SSR. All other DVC members will have equal shot at that villa, albeit a 5 month window instead of 7 (or whatever the actual number of months are).

Am I missing something?

MG

Well, I just may see the error in my thinking. I just re-read the OP's initial post, and coupled that with Dean's ealier response about "July".

I need to have my AM "cup a jo", before I attempt to think about this anymore...

MG

 

[Kick it up a notch!]

I would be willing to bet that they have sales projection models they are looking at and they need to sell x amount of units before enough inventory is moved into the DVC from the developer. We all have to remember that the developer owns the inventory until it is sold, then it is moved into DVC. While there may be a whole bunch of rooms sitting there unused, if it is not in DVC inventory, they can't use it for reservations. The developer can rent it for cash though if my understanding is correct. I don't think that the advantage is such a big deal and they probably have so few SSR owners that it doesn't impact the DVC inventory available to the rest of us. It is not like they are getting this huge head start, and if there is not enough inventory available for the SSR owners to book at their home resort they would be upset. If I spent 15K and couldn't book my own resort because it was opened up to the general membership and they jumped on it because it was new (and you know lots of people will want to try it out before they bought more points) I would be pretty upset.

If the inventory is not there to let people book it you can't really blame them for not letting you book. Since there is plenty of inventory for DVC the few SSR people won't have any impact on reservations (probably until Feb., when they opened SSR for everyone else to book)

It is probably just a case of the numbers can work so why not let them do it rather than lets stick it to the existing owners.

I have found DVC to be pretty reasonable and fair and this is probably just a case of trying to let some people enjoy something they bought a little early, without impact to others. A little magic if you think about it.

The impact is nominal to the rest of us so we should be happy for them that they get to enjoy what we have had, and not be upset about something someone else has that we can't have.

Oh, and BTW, I don't own SSR.

 

[CarolMN]

Originally posted by Maistre Gracey
While I cetainly understand the OP's point, I just don't see the big deal. As long as all other resorts can start booking SSR at the same time, does it really make any difference? As another poster pointed out, for every room a SSR owner takes from BW, there will be another room open at SSR. All other DVC members will have equal shot at that villa, albeit a 5 month window instead of 7 (or whatever the actual number of months are).

Am I missing something?

MG

Not as far as I'm concerned. That was my main point, but apparently, it was not stated clearly!

Everyone has the same opportunity to book a non-home resort. SSR owners are not getting any booking advantage over other owners. They can't book at BWV, or OKW or BCV or etc. any sooner than any other member using non-home resort points. Yes, the window for non-SSR owners to book SSR is only 5 months instead of 7, but what's so awful about that? If this 2 month discrepancy results in a "shortage" of SSR rooms, I expect the developer to make it right by adding rooms into the SSR point inventory.

Keep in mind that this situation only exists for booking stays between SSR opening and September something anyway. After that, the window is back to 7 months for all non-home resorts.

This is pretty much a "values" discussion, so it's unlikely that everyone will agree. Kind of like talking about religion and politics. It's fun to read other views until someone starts namecalling or shouting. Haven't seen any of that in this thread yet, so I'm still here.

Ducky4Disney - I just can't explain it any better than that, LOL!

FriendsofEeyore = Uff Da! I'll have to work on my diction and make it a little more "Minnesotan". FWIW, I was born in MN and have lived here my entire life. I'll probably die here someday.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by stacy6552
SSR owners cannot stay until their unit is available. Only the SSR owners of unit 1 will be staying anywhere in May. Then in June the owners of untis 1&2 will be staying anywhere......So other resorts are no obsorbing any extra inventory. An owner of unit 2 cannot stay at the WLV in May, because thier unti is not open inventory until June.

So Dean's pretend traveler will only be stying at another DVC resort in July only because his unit is potentially available.

The fact remains that there are SSR members that can book non SSR resorts at the 7 month window and owners at those same resorts can't reciprocate. I'd agree it's small potatoes in terms of effect but it speaks volumes at to DVC's willingness to sacrifice it's owners at the expense of a buck. Something I'd hoped I'd never see.

No owner can use DVC until their unit is available. Technically we each own a piece of a real unit. Remember that a unit is not a single room but a group of rooms. That has no effect on the discussion here unless the resort opens 2 months late and the owners that have already booked with that 2 month advantage had their reservations cancelled.

 

[stacy6552]

Yes they can. The can absolutely reciprocate. The windows just dont coincide. Technically, there was a small period of time when SSR owners could book at another resort before they could even book at their own (Oct 17-Nov 30).

If a BWV owner tried to book 8 months out and couldnt get a room at their home reosrt, they would have to wait until the booking window opened to the other resorts. You just have to wait for the booking window to open and if an owner is staying somewhere else then there is potentially room at SSR.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by stacy6552
Yes they can. The can absolutely reciprocate. The windows just dont coincide. Technically, there was a small period of time when SSR owners could book at another resort before they could even book at their own (Oct 17-Nov 30).

If a BWV owner tried to book 8 months out and couldnt get a room at their home reosrt, they would have to wait until the booking window opened to the other resorts. You just have to wait for the booking window to open and if an owner is staying somewhere else then there is potentially room at SSR.

The fact remains that there is a 2 month window when they can't reciprocate. There's no way to get this time back. The fact that after that 2 month time is over, all is equal is irrlevant to my point. It's like the sales the day after thanksgiving. If you go to Wal Mart to get that 27 inch color TV for $100, you be there when the door opens at 5 am. If you go at 10, no more TV's. An extreme example I know but I feel it makes the point.

 

[stacy6552]

So what you are asking for is no reciprocation for SSR owners. No oppertunity for SSR owners to book at their home resort before it opens to all members. Everyone else had a priority booking window. Why shouldn't SSR owners?

 

[Nick@ VB+OKW]

Stacy and Dean go to your respective corners..........

P.S. Stacy.....sent what you asked for in your (PM's)

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by stacy6552
So what you are asking for is no reciprocation for SSR owners. No oppertunity for SSR owners to book at their home resort before it opens to all members. Everyone else had a priority booking window. Why shouldn't SSR owners?

No, what I'd have suggested for DVC would be to let SSR owners book at their home resort starting in December and then SSR and other DVC owners to book at each of the resorts starting at a later date, maybe 4 Feb or maybe earlier. When BCV opened, there was no handicap for the non BCV owners.

But given the choice of the current situation or having a free for all at the 7 month window, I'd have taken the latter.

 

[jaysue]

It is pretty obvious to me there is an advantage for the SSR crowd - plain and simple and it should be let go at that

thanks
jaysue

 

[LIFERBABE]

Dean

I like your analogy of the after Thanksgiving sale! ( I was in line at 5:45 a.m. this year ) It's basically DVD saying to the owners, that IF U Snooze U lose because they have added more points and not inventory. No $25 DVD Player for you late bookers.

SSR is so large that the smaller DVC's (except OKW) are not on a 1 to 1 ratio as far as booking goes. How many SSR owners will it take to book elsewhere before that opens 1 room up for non owners at SSR.

This is why so many are stressing the 11 month window once SSR opens and to purchase where you want to stay. The demand will exceed the supply at the smaller DVC's.

As it stands now, in these 2 months SSR owners could basically fill their own resort due to the limited availability, and fill any availability at the smaller resorts.

It's not the free for all that usually exists because for these 2 months, all 7 Resort owners are competing for ressies in the 7 month window at only 6 Resorts.
SSR owners can book their own resort (Their Home Resort Priority Window) or any DVC as long as they are in the 7 month window.

This is stated in the Product Understanding CheckList and I have booked a ressie with SSR points at BCV for May 2004.

I too enjoy this discussion, as it makes you think!

 

[kathleena]

I too would think that SSR owners would have been allowed to book at their own resort Dec 1 only.

And then Feb, when the rest of DVC can book at SSR, then SSR owners would also be able to book at the other DVC resort.

Why should they have at our inventory when we can't have the same privilege to theirs.

BUT - wondering how their use year work - i.e. if they have Dec use year, would they get 150 SSR points Dec 2003 that they can use from that time on, or would they not be able to travel on them until after the resort opens - no matter where they book? And if they gave back 100 points for the opening deal, then the impact would be even less.

 

[RobDoc]

Also remember that SSR owners cannot reserve at ANY resort for a date prior to the date SSR opens in May. They are not competing for any DVC resort inventory until mid-May. As of tomorrow- when MS opens- they can only reserve at SSR between May 17, 2004 and November 4, 2004 and at any other DVC resort between May 17, 2004 and July 4, 2004. All other DVC owners can make reservations already at ANY DVC resort (except SSR) for arrival between January 5, 2004 and July 4, 2004.

I choose to look at this "advantage" as a minimal (very minimal) perk of SSR ownership compared to perks like park passes available to early OKW and VB owners. IMO, this 2 month "advantage" enjoyed by SSR owners isn't much of an advantage at all since their membership is still limited in terms of the dates they have available to use for making reservations.

Seems like much ado about nothing to me.

.02

 

[LIFERBABE]

The OP made a valid observation. It's the truth. Am I upset about it? No.

But since this occurrence is unprecedented in DVC history I think discussion and understanding of what occurred is beneficial to all members.

This may now be the norm for Resort openings.

I am happy to be a member of this board and have a deeper understanding of my membership and what DVD chooses to do with the words written on that packet of paper that I signed.

Any post that prompts you to pull your paperwork out from under the bed is a good one IMHO

 

[Cruelladeville]

Iagree that this has been an interesting thread. It makes you think about the implications--it occurred to me that we are guaranteed booking at our home resorts at the 11 month window, and a 7 month window at non-home resorts. Didn't DVD basically go against all our contracts by only allowing a limited number of (future?) members to book somewhere at the 7 month window, while the rest of the members could not?

It is scary to think that the contracts of 80,000 members could be ignored so easily...

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by WebmasterDoc
I choose to look at this "advantage" as a minimal (very minimal) perk of SSR ownership compared to perks like park passes available to early OKW and VB owners. IMO, this 2 month "advantage" enjoyed by SSR owners isn't much of an advantage at all since their membership is still limited in terms of the dates they have available to use for making reservations.

True, but this limitation is no different than any other new DVC resort that has done presales. The one way preference is differnce.

 

[stacy6552]

Why should an OKW owner have the advantage over an SSR owner to book at the Beach Club?

Why is it fair that a WLV owner be allowed to book the BWV for July, now, and SSR owner cant?

Youre talking about the booking window for non-owner DVC members. That should be the same for every single member. If all DVC members can book at OKW now, then that should include all members.

DVC is a points system. You dont book a week at your own resort and find someone to trade a specific week at another resort. We use our points when and where we can.

SSR's window may be different, now, but its the same for all non-owner members. Just as the rest of the resorts are.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by stacy6552
Why should an OKW owner have the advantage over an SSR owner to book at the Beach Club?

Why is it fair that a WLV owner be allowed to book the BWV for July, now, and SSR owner cant?

Youre talking about the booking window for non-owner DVC members. That should be the same for every single member. If all DVC members can book at OKW now, then that should include all members.

DVC is a points system. You dont book a week at your own resort and find someone to trade a specific week at another resort. We use our points when and where we can.

SSR's window may be different, now, but its the same for all non-owner members. Just as the rest of the resorts are.

Any limitation for SSR for July would be based on whether their building is ready and available, as it should. For those that have legal points, the window is the same for any non home resort. My reference to non owner was for DVC members who owned at other resorts. Legally SSR owners are not really members until they have closed AND their unit is ready for occupancy. So DVC is doing them a favor by even letting them book other resorts. SSR resort is not the first new resort to DVC and the issue of not being able to use your points until the unit YOU own is available is not a new one. What's new is the reverse window we've been talking about.

Under normal circumstances any inequities, if you want to call them that, of not being able to use points form a new resort are based on the legal aspects. This is the first time DVC has set out to purposefully create two classes of members when the members didn't have a choice in the matter. For example, with the OKW free passes, anyone who bought later didn't get the passes but did have the choice not to buy.

It's obvious that DVC decided to give SSR owners a place to use those extra points hoping the system would absorb it. It probably will, but it's unfair. It's akin to affirmative action in some ways.

 

[stacy6552]

Are you talking about the "free trip" points incentive that Disney offered to new buyers? If you are youre talking about Disney giving away their ownership interest points to people, in which case who knows what the home resort the points come from and I think that is a completely different thing that could be booked at any time, because the users were given them to be able to go before their own ownership kicked in. Those trips are equal to you giving or renting your points to someone else.



What was done in the past? There seems to be the implication that no new BCV owner could book a trip ahead of the opening. Then how did members stay there for grand opening? Are you saying that members from other resorts were given the oppertunity to book first?

 

[FriendsOfEeyore]

I love to have deep, insighful discussions with my friends and co-workers. I like to bring up subjects that not a lot people tend to think about.

Like I said many posts ago, I have no intentions of making a ressie a SSR in the next year or so, maybe try for 2005 or 2006. That said, I saw this as a "hole" in the access to inventory that should be fair, except for those that want to book their home resort.

Thanks to everyone fr keeping this post on the front page for 3 straight days now. Stacy has really done her part to represent the SSR owners. We needed her to carry that side of the discussion, because I think that the rest of us see my points.

Thank you Stacy! You have protected the SSR owners interests very well. However, I think that you may still have missed the main point that I was trying to make. That's ok, you will understand in about 3 or 4 years with something happens with Eagle Pines.

I have loved following this thread. We don't often get a nice long thread with great insight, that does not eventually turn into a my resort is better than yours. I am very pleased with the way that this thread has developed. This is exactly what I was looking for when I posted the initial question / point.

That said..... I still think that DVD step into a slightly dangerous area. Because of the size of the resort and possible future DVC properties, this could hurt the inventory to existing members.

Thanks to all posters and lurkers of this thread. 1000 views? Unbelievable for what Doc termed "Seems like much ado about nothing to me."

Edward