Why can SSR owners book other DVC resorts...

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by Dean
... In the past when DVC gave points without rooms they did the MB where they bought back extra points and nullified this problem.

It's also possible that DVC is doing the same thing in this case- using the MB points from the BWV and BCV sales from a few months ago to balance whatever non-home demand is used by SSR owners during this 65 day period.

At the same time, the SSR points used in this fashion will free up utilization at that resort once open.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by WebmasterDoc
It's also possible that DVC is doing the same thing in this case- using the MB points from the BWV and BCV sales from a few months ago to balance whatever non-home demand is used by SSR owners during this 65 day period.

At the same time, the SSR points used in this fashion will free up utilization at that resort once open.

Doc, I see your point but I doubt there were enough points in the MB of BWV to balance even that situation as they sold points there before rooms were ready as well. Same for BCV. Certainly there would be no extra cushion there. Besides, that is a very time limited situation where any cushion created would be gone by now. The same will happen with SSR but since it's such a large resort that will be selling the next 10 years or so, it will happen for a long time though not all at once.

VB would be the only resort likely to have any additional cushion to absorb this activity over and above any already present availability. This is due to the fact that the MB was higher and those that bought were more likely to take advantage. Besides, I heard recently they were still doing MB on VB, who knows if it's true though. OF course HH could absorb it off season but that's due to the nature of the resort, not extra points. And that will actually contribute to the problems at WDW as those extra HH points are going that direction.

 

[stacy6552]

If SSR owners cannot stay anywhere until their unit is available, where is this imbalance comming from?

All members will get thier chance to stay at SSR once the booking window opens. It didnt open for ssr owners at the regular point either. There was no difference when I booked, aside from that fact that the calendar read Dec instead June. I dont see how there will be any difference to the rest of DVC in Feb. So I ask again, just what is it that you all are fearing is going to happen?

 

[SharonS]

Stacey, the problem is that SSR owners are able to book at other resorts utilizing the 7 month window, but owners of other resorts are unable to book at SSR using the 7 month window until February.

Usually, folks book at their resort at the 11 month window to ensure they have something, then often change at the 7 month window to where they would like to stay. In other words, folks that do not own at a particular resort are able to get in at 7 months often because others are trading out.

The inequity everyone feels is happening is this:

I own at BWV and would like to stay at SSR in June. You own at SSR and would like to stay at BWV. Under normal circumstances, we are now within the 7 month window, and could both make the reservation at our desired resort. However, based on the way DVC set this up, you would be able to reserve your room at BWV today. However, I would have to wait until February to attempt to book SSR.

No one has a problem with SSR owners being able to book rooms at SSR prior to everyone else. The problem is that you are also able to book at the other resorts while owners at the other resorts may not book at SSR.

 

[stacy6552]

Sharon,

I understand the argument. What I dont understand is what the concern is. Because when I booked my trip for my home resort, SSR, in Dec, it was during my home resort priority period, but was not 11 mos before my trip. There was no difference or consequence to the fact that my booking priority didnt start until Dec, when ordinarily, I would have been able to call in June. My booking time frame was not in its usual place of 7-11 mos before my trip. I see no reason why non-ssr owners should anticipate a different experience when booking at SSR as of Feb.

So here's another example, building on your post. Ordinarily, when I stay at your resort and you stay at mine, we dont specifically trade our times with each other. There's room because not all the owners are filling the resort at that time. Right? So when you call to book at SSR on Feb 4th, aside from the calendar date, its no different than if we both called at the 7mos window, and I called at 9am and you called at 10am. I will have booked my trip at the BW and you will book your trip at SSR. Theres room because I am not staying at my resort.

In fact as a non-SSR owner there is the possible benefit to your booking, because SSR owners havent booked at SSR hoping to switch out later, because they already knew if they could and didnt book at SSR first and cancelled after you called. And this is only for trips between now and Sept 4th. So if I want to stay at your resort in July, I could try and book it first, rather than book at SSR filling a room there, when I dont plan to stay there. So when you call on Feb 4th, the SSR owners will already be staying elsewhere, leaving more rooms available at SSR, theoretically.

 

[FriendsOfEeyore]

Stacy just does not get what is fair. She has a great benefit, and can only see the positives thru her SSR-colored sunglasses.

If she would actually read the entire post, she might just realize what we all are actually saying. She has already booked other DVC properties with her SSR points. GREAT, her space will be available come Feb 4th for any other DVC Member to book that time period at SSR.

She continues to bring up the 7 month window. STACY!!!!!!! We did not have the opportunity to book your resort at 7 months (and still do not). For that matter, neither did you. But you have the ability to book our resorts at seven months (or less). If we are "trading" resorts, then the same booking window should be available to all.

What DVD/DVC should have done (Stacy see if you can follow this):

December 1, 2003
*Allow DVC Members to book their HOME RESORT for any ressie ending 11/1/2004 or earlier.
*Allow All NON-SSR DVC members to book ANY NON-SSR DVC Resort for any ressie ending 7/1/04 or earlier.
*Allow SSR Members to book any SSR ressie ending 11/1/2004 or earlier.

February 4, 2004
Welcome SSR to DVC Family
*Allow for normal DVC booking previldges on all properties within the DVC family.

The Above is Much Too Logical.

You know what, I think that the more I think about it, you are right Stacy. There is nothing unequitable about DVD/DVC is doing by allowing you free access to property for which you do not have a trade.

 

[stacy6552]

WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?

You only have a valid arguement, if you can reasonably explain that the difference for you between booking a trip at SSR on Feb 4 or the first day of the 7mos window?

Ive asked that question a few times now, and nobody has yet to answer that question.

 

[Nick@ VB+OKW]

Originally posted by FriendsOfEeyore
Stacy just does not get what is fair. She has a great benefit, and can only see the positives thru her SSR-colored sunglasses.

 

[kweaver]

Wow...this thread has a lot of great discussion and information in it.

I'm not sure there is a way DVC could have rearranged the booking dates/procedures to mesh with the requirements all of the owners contracts. The reason I say this is...the last scenario that FriendsOf Eeyore presented ("what DVC should have done") makes a lot of sense. The one problem I can see with it is that the 7 month booking window for *other* DVC resorts was included in SSR owners' contracts. So, as I see it (and I could be way off base), technically they had to allow SSR members to reserve at NON-SSR resorts at the 7 month window (or whenever they began accepting reservations - whichever date comes later).

As far as I know, there's nothing in the contracts (SSR or others) that stipulates what should/will happen regarding reservations whenever a new resort opens.

I'm unclear as to whether the occupancy/availability issue will become a problem down the road. It seems like DVC solved that by not allowing SSR members to stay at any resort until their actual UNIT is open. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[LIFERBABE]

Also remember, we purchased a Resort under construction during pre-sale with the knowledge that we would not have 11 month booking window upon opening.

It is true that we cannot stay on points until we are deeded owners. That is DVD's loophole. In theory they are only reserving a unit for members whose contracts have not closed. They are not allowing the members to stay/occupy the unit until they are officially members so Im sure they are meeting their legal obligation.

It's the FASTPASS system for DVC! When your time is available (deed recorded) they have a spot for you at the front of the line LOL!

As stated earlier, I agree that it is an advantage and the reason DVD was able to "sweeten the pot" for SSR presales. Even if it is 2 months, it will allow a flood of points to be used at other Resorts.

 

[CRobin]

Originally posted by stacy6552
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?

You only have a valid arguement, if you can reasonably explain that the difference for you between booking a trip at SSR on Feb 4 or the first day of the 7mos window?

Ive asked that question a few times now, and nobody has yet to answer that question.

I'll try.

As Dean tried to point out earlier, it is that points are being sucked out of the system for two months when there is no corresponding property.

When DVC builds a property, and make it available for occupancy, they declare 96% of the points corresponding to what they have built into member inventory. Now they have a building, and the points to boot out there. So, booking windows aside, all is in mathematical alignment in the universe.

But, when they allow points to be used when there is NO corresponding property, there is a POTENTIAL (and, maybe insignificant) imbalance. They have, in essence, overbooked the capacity of the FAMILY of DVC resorts by two months worth of SSR points.

Remember, on any given day, mathematically, 96% of OKW, BWV, VWL, and BCV are filled up.

As Doc suggested above, maybe they have calculated that through MB they have pulled enough of those points back to put things into equilibrium.

Or, maybe they don't think it's that big of a deal.

 

[LIFERBABE]

WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?

We will let you know on Feb 4th.

My theory is SSR will be booked to it's limited capacity and so will the other onsite DVC Resorts.

 

[stacy6552]

CR's point is a possibility, but Disney has that covered. The only way there will not be a corisponding property is if Disney does not deliver on the units. If they dont deliver, the members dont close the contracts, and those SSR members cant stay anywhere.

Life's concern is a valid one. But if there is no room its only because SSR owners have filled the resort. Which would be no different than if I called in June (7 mos out) for a christmas stay at WLV and it was booked with WLV owners. Plus, if the resort is full of SSR owners, then they arent staying at someone elses property.

Neither of which would be affected by the late booking window.

 

[FriendsOfEeyore]

It will be intersting to see what the availibity of SSR is come February. I, as I have stated MANY times throughout this thread, will not be calling to book a summer trip to SSR this year. But I will checking the Dis boards as I do everyday to see what kind of success non-SSR memebers are having booking rooms.

Come February the most important thing on my mind will be that first trip home to the BCV. Where all is well and good. I can remember when I purchased there, thinking that my first rip home was so far out. Now it is a mere 30 some odd days out.

but I digress...

I know that others stated that this move is unlike what has happened in the past, but I still wonder what all the DVC, I mean OKW members thought when BW was getting close to opening. Were all the existing members waiting to stay at the NEW DVC RESORT, or were worried that the BW members would book OKW, thus taking away some of the "last minute getaway" vacations that some had grown to love.

I see posts every now and then from the someone who says that they can not plan many months in advance due to family situations or work. Then, when the time arrives and they want to take that maigical trip home of Memorial Day Weekend 2004, they find out that all of the resorts are booked solid for the Studio that their points could afford (That is all the resorts with the exception of SSR). Now we are DISers are not the average sampling of DVC members are we? If not (which is my guess), then this person would not know just to call back in Feb and you will have a chance to book that trip. See there would have been 2 studios available at VWL had the brand new SSR members not booked those rooms. IMHO, the SSR member should have been REQUIRED to book the studios that were available at SSR and check for availibility to switch the VWL in Feb.

THERE's THE DIFFERENCE.

 

[kweaver]

Originally posted by CRobin

But, when they allow points to be used when there is NO corresponding property, there is a POTENTIAL (and, maybe insignificant) imbalance. They have, in essence, overbooked the capacity of the FAMILY of DVC resorts by two months worth of SSR points. [/B]

I would tend to agree with this...if these points were actually being used (as in actual DVC stays) during the months of Jan-May. However, none of the points are being used til May 17th (at the very earliest) when the SSR buildings begin to open. Add in the fact that many people with SSR points aren't planning to use them til much later (remembering back to a poll that was done in the last month or two...Thanksgiving and Christmas 2004 were popular timeframes!).

Yes, I believe SSR owners got a very slight advantage. Yes, there is a small potential for a very small imbalance of points. No, I do not think it will have any kind of major effect on reservations in the future.

 

[DrTomorrow]

Hold on, hold on, HOLD ON. There's way too much logic in this thread.

Yes, SSR owners (including me!) get a one-time booking advantage.

Why? Well, we're good enough, we're smart enough, and dog-gone it, people like us!

And, for the record, DW and I are doing our part to minimize the point imbalance by staying at SSR for our first two trips "Home"; yep, we'll dive on that grenade for our fellow DIS DVCers....

 

[FriendsOfEeyore]

Somebody correct me if I wrong on following thought/calculation...


Come May 19th, the first bldg of SSR is scheduled to be completed. That bldg will consist of approx 70 units. For which there must be about 2000 (probably closer to 2500) SSR members associated with those units. (I come up saying that the typcial new purchaser buys 150 pts. 150pts gets you a little over a week in a studio. Assuming all 70 units are studios - bad assumption - the annual point cost of 1 bldg at SSR would be about 385,000 points. The aveage SSR member would own only 2.7% of a single studio (0.039% of the bldg) - roughly 10 days per year in a studio)

Stacy,

Are you trying to tell that DVC can absorb that many members in all of the available units at all DVC properties? How many total rooms are available thru DVC? I am not sure, but I thought that I read previously like 2000? There is no way that all 2000 SSR members who are scheduled to close with the completion of the 1st bldg would be able to book a stay during the 1st month. This is the ISSUE. SSR members have the ability to book all DVC vacancy (including the 70 units in the 1st SSR bldg). All Non-SSR members can only book the Non-SSR DVC vacant units.

Edward

 

[FriendsOfEeyore]

Originally posted by DrTomorrow
Hold on, hold on, HOLD ON. There's way too much logic in this thread.

Yes, SSR owners (including me!) get a one-time booking advantage.

Why? Well, we're good enough, we're smart enough, and dog-gone it, people like us!

And, for the record, DW and I are doing our part to minimize the point imbalance by staying at SSR for our first two trips "Home"; yep, we'll dive on that grenade for our fellow DIS DVCers....

Now this post had me laughing. Thanks DrTomorrow!!!

 

[stacy6552]

If Disney doesnt do an adequate job of notifying members of booking availability at SSR, then shame on them. But if someone doesnt read their mail, check the website, for follow the newsletter then they only have themselves to blame.

If this owner you speak of is a WLV member, then they had thier priority oppertunity between 7 mos and 11 mos out. If this member owns somewhere else like BCV, why should they get priority over an SSR owner at the WLV? We only get priority at our own resort and only during the early booking window.

To follow your logic, then owners should get priority from 7-11mos out. Then OKW members get next dibs at other resorts 6-7mos out. Only then can BWI owners book between 5-6months out....and so on, until SSR owners are left calling the day they want to check in, begging for the dumpster niew.......

 

[stacy6552]

Now youre just reaching.

Its a timeshare remember? Not all members got at the same time. People get waitlisted for trips everyday, because Disney cant accommodate everyone one at once.