Why can SSR owners book other DVC resorts...

[stacy6552]

Oh, you were trying to make a point? Silly me. I thought that when YOU ASKED A QUESTION you were seeking an answer.

 

[FriendsOfEeyore]

Question or point... I think that is determined by your point of view. Yes, I asked a question, but my point was that I did not think that what did DVD/DVC was equalitable. The question was, what do others think.

I am aware of the fact that you two have trips planned; SSR in May (WELCOME HOME!) and HH during the summer.

Q: Are both trips booked using SSR points? If so, I hope that you finally understand that a HH member will not be able book a room at SSR until Feb 4th. Until then, there is imbalance in the DVC point system that cannot be corrected. That is what I am saying. I love the fact DVD/DVC reserved you the right to book your resort, but at this point both of your vacations should be booked @SSR. Then on Feb 4th, you should have had the opportunity to change your second ressie to your desired destination. The same rights that the rest of us have to book your resort.

 

[dcfromva]

I believe BCV was afforded the same deal in terms of booking. I can't find the documentation which tells when BCV bookings were opened up to all DVC members. I thought that BCV owners were permitted to book first and then other DVC members could book at BCV at a later date (I can't find the letter, though). Maybe someone else can remember?

Here is what I do have from the BCV Product Understanding checklist:

"7. You may begin to make reservations for Disney's Beach Club Villas on March 6, 2002 for stays beginning on or after the resort opening date. You may begin to make reservations for other DVC Resorts as soon as you purchase an Ownership Interest for stays beginning on or after the Disney's Beach Club Villas opening date. Once Disney's Beach Club Villas is open and your Deed is recorded, you may bank or borrow Vacation points or request an external exchange...."

When I purchased BWV points, I was permitted to book reservations the next day for non-BWV property. This was before I received any paperwork via FEDEX and before the paperwork was recorded.

I thought that Disney extended a similar courtesy to all new members.
-DC

 

[RobDoc]

"I believe BCV was afforded the same deal in terms of booking. I can't find the documentation which tells when BCV bookings were opened up to all DVC members. I thought that BCV owners were permitted to book first and then other DVC members could book at BCV at a later date (I can't find the letter, though). Maybe someone else can remember?

I think you are correct. A similar courtesy has been extended at both BCV and VWL.

I think other DVC owners had to wait until May 1, 2002 to reserve at BCV.

VWL was already open when sales began, but I think early purchasers there also had a short reservation priority over other DVC owners.

 

[stacy6552]

Yes I am styaing at HH on SSR points. That HH owner had his priority booking window at HH from August to Nov.

I see your point. But to answer your original question, YES you are off base in your thinking. Each resort have two kinds of DVC guests (basically) those with ownership interest and those without. The only difference is booking priority. Some could book early adn some could not. At SSR that window is temporarily different this first year to give the owners a priority booking window there. It has no baring on other resorts.

Once again I ask, why should an owner at OKW get priority booking at HH over me?

 

[TroyWDW]

Originally posted by stacy6552
Yes I am styaing at HH on SSR points. That HH owner had his priority booking window at HH from August to Nov.

I see your point. But to answer your original question, YES you are off base in your thinking. Each resort have two kinds of DVC guests (basically) those with ownership interest and those without. The only difference is booking priority. Some could book early adn some could not. At SSR that window is temporarily different this first year to give the owners a priority booking window there. It has no baring on other resorts.

Once again I ask, why should an owner at OKW get priority booking at HH over me?

In reviewing the Multi-Site Public Offering Statement, here are a couple of important definitions.

Club Member shall mean the owner of record of an Ownership Interest in a DVC Resort.

Purchaser shall mean a prospective Club Member, but shall not include DVD.

III. MULTISITE PUBLIC OFFERING STATEMENT TEXT

1. Description of the Vacation Club. The name of the vacation club is the Disney Vacation Club. ...

a. Term of the Vacation Club. The term of the vacation club as to a specific DVC Resort will continue ...

b. Legal Structure. Membership in the Club is an appurtenance to each Ownership Interest in accordance with the terms of the DVC Resort Documents and the DVC Resort Agreement, and is conveyed by virtue of the execution and delivery of a deed. Upon recording of the deed, the Club Member is automatically entitled to enjoy the services and benefits associated with membership in the Club. ...

In reviewing the Orange County records, I do not find a single registered deed for folks who have "purchased" SSR. Hence, I believe that they are not officially Club Members of the Disney Vacation Club at this time. My conclusion is that "SSR Owners" should be classified as a "Purchaser" and not as a "Club Member" as defined by the MSPOS.

III. MULTISITE PUBLIC OFFERING STATEMENT TEXT

2. Reservation System.

a. Ownership of DVC Reservation Component. The DVC Reservation Component is owned by BVTC and the Home Resort Reservation Component is owned by DVCMC. Neither component is subject to lease.

b. Structure of Reservation System. The services provided through the Club include the operation of the central reservation system which consists of the Home Resort Reservation Component for each DVC Resort and the DVC Reservation Component. Club Members' rights to reserve Vacation Homes at their Home Resort through the Home Resort Reservation Component are set forth in the Membership Agreement and the Home Resort Rules and Regulations for their Home Resort. Club Members' rights to reserve Vacation Homes at DVC Resorts through the DVC Reservation Component are set forth in the Disclosure Document and the DVC Resort Agreement for each DVC Resort.

c. Entity Responsible for Operation of Reservation System. BVTC is responsible for the operation of the DVC Reservation Component for the Club. BVTC performs its obligations for the Club pursuant to the terms and conditions of the DVC Resort Agreement and the Disclosure Document as amended from time to time. DVCMC is responsible for the operation of the Home Resort Reservation Component for each DVC Resort. DVCMC performs its obligations for the Club pursuant to the terms and conditions of the Membership Agreement and the Home Resort Rules and Regulations for each DVC Resort.

3. Operation of Reservation System. The DVC Reservation Component is the component of the Club central reservation system through which Club Members access DVC Resorts utilizing DVC Vacation Points. The Home Resort Reservation Component is the component of the Club central reservation system through which Club Members access their Home Resort utilizing Home Resort Vacation Points.

In every statement concerning the reservation system, it always uses the term "Club Member". I can't find a single instance where "Purchaser" has any rights to use the DVC reservation system.

My interpretation of the MSPOS suggests that "Purchasers" are not equivalent to "Club Members".

There also appears to be a distinction made between a Home Resort Reservation Component and the DVC Reservation Component.

It seems reasonable for DVCMC to have a Home Resort Reservation system available exclusively for the prospective SSR owners prior to the resort actually being completed and available for occupancy.

But, the rub is when DVCMC starts making reservations into and out of SSR (SSR prospective owners booking at other DVC resorts and Club Members booking at SSR).

I agree with Dean that the current situation, as I understand it, appears to be unfair to the existing and official DVC Club Members. I don't believe the prospective SSR owners are DVC members and hence should not be given unfair advantages in reserving rooms in the other DVC resorts. While the overall impact may appear small, I find the precedent unsettling.

How do other folks interpret the Multisite Public Offering Statement? My MSPOS is a few years old. Have there been changes made to the MSPOS to offer special privileges to "Purchasers"?

If DVD wasn't pre-selling SSR, would we have this situation?

Troy

 

[SharonS]

Just wanted to state that BCV owners did not receive any type of advantage. I am a BWV owner, but I booked a trip at BCV for August on March 6th. I remember, because I was at WDW and had to remember to make that call at 9:00 am on March 6th.

So, DVC realized the error of their ways with BCV and gave SSR owners the advantage at their resort.....which I can whole heartedly agree with. However, I do agree with the OP that it is unfair for SSR owners to be able to book at other resorts prior to Feb when other resort owners can book at SSR.

 

[dcfromva]

Troy,

Purchasers through Disney are permitted to make reservations immediately (except when the property has not yet been released into inventory)--this is prior to the paperwork being processed or the deed being recorded.

I think the deed has to be recorded prior to actually using the points, but maybe someone knows an exception to this.

When I purchased my BWV points, I made a reservation the day after I called my guide to add the points on. This is one of the perks of buying points through Disney, No?


-DC

 

[pmcpmc]

to the confusion and confirm what Dean has often said, I booked some time at OKW February 2004 using SSR points an add-on to my BWV contract .

 

[FriendsOfEeyore]

WOW!!!

Ok, now Troy are you contract or real property attorney? I mean, heck I only work with them, as am an accountant for a law firm. You have hit the nail on the head. I never provided any of the attys at my office the docs that you represented, but they said that in their opinion from the info that I had provided that a misjustice was being performed by DVC.

I was not looking to start a lawsuit or anything like that. And god forbid that DVC cancel the ressies that they have already accepted, but I think that they should stop taking new ressies from SSR members (purchasers) until Feb 4th.

As I have said from the beginning, let them book their own resort for the time being.

I am pretty sure that DVC has over stepped their contractual rights to their existing members.

Edward

ps, sorry don't mean to sound so harsh, but IMHO it is the truth.

 

[FriendsOfEeyore]

Oh the next step....

Who is going to contact DVC and notify them of their unjust acts???

Just kidding,

Keep the discussion light, but well thought out. Good Job Troy!!!!

 

[stacy6552]

You have yet to prove anything except that you consider your ownership superior and you dont want to be wrong.

Now you are merely posting to antagonize others and create bad will amoung friends and "neighbors."

Shame on you.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by stacy6552
Once again I ask, why should an owner at OKW get priority booking at HH over me?

Technically you are not even an owner yet. No other DVC owner would have priority over you as a SSR owner, when you are one. The fact you can't use your points until later (May for some) is a function of the legalities and rules of a purchase in a new resort, not a planned priority.

This is the first and only time I'm aware of that DVC has given owners at a new resort priority over other DVC owners for existing resorts.

 

[TroyWDW]

Edward,

No I'm not a lawyer. Your original question was thought provoking and caused me to pull out the MSPOS. It is dry reading, but it is fairly well organized. We do have a couple of lawyers in this forum and I'm hoping that they may weigh in with their perspectives.

Troy

 

[stacy6552]

I just dont see how that is the case.

SSR owners can book 7 mos out at other resorts just like everyone else. To say they cannot would be to give everyone else priority over them.

What exactly are you expecting to find on Feb 4th when you can book at SSR, that you would not be getting at the regular 7 month mark?

 

[FriendsOfEeyore]

Originally posted by stacy6552
You have yet to prove anything except that you consider your ownership superior and you dont want to be wrong.

Now you are merely posting to antagonize others and create bad will amoung friends and "neighbors."

Shame on you.

Stacy,

I do not understand. I have not been mean to you or any other SSR owners. I respect every one of my DVC neighbors, especially those on the DIS. We share so much information, and benefit each other so much.

It is not a question or being right or wrong, it is a discussion that has two sides (kind of like the Pete Rose Gambling story, that is until today).

I am very sorry if see this as an attact against you, the SSR owners, or your DVC resort. That is not the point. The point is that DVC may have made an error in judgement. However DVD / DVC should be safe, as when we all signed our contracts, we basically said that we would not sue DVC over anything, because anything is changeable.

This was a discussion, not a personal attact (contrary to another another current post).

Edward

 

[Sammie]

Originally posted by FriendsOfEeyore
Oh the next step....

Who is going to contact DVC and notify them of their unjust acts???

Just kidding,

Keep the discussion light, but well thought out. Good Job Troy!!!!

Considering DVC reads this forum, I would assume they are aware of the discussion of their unjust acts and the fact that you started the discussion.

Which means that the next time you book VWL you will get the much wanted "dumpster view"

As to Doc's comment and the 1000 views that only means many are interested in nothing or a good controversy.

 

[jaysue]

FriendsOfEeyore, good discussion and post

As I stated before the SSR owners have a potential advantage in limited circumstances

thanks for the thread
jaysue

 

[FriendsOfEeyore]

Oh Boy.. The Ever-Wanted Dumpster View. I have yet to stay at DVC, but I think that is one view that I can do without after reading other's posts. If I ever get the dumpster view/oval view/back of community hall view, I will understand that it is my turn. Hopefully, I will only get each once, but you never know with my requests.... Non-Smoking. Leaves all those as a possibility.

Has Nick ever made a Smiley w/ a dumpster view? Maybe he name it after me.

All Kidding Aside, as I have said, I thought that it was an interesting thought / thread. I think that some others agree.

Thanks to support from those that have found this thread interesting.

I guess the next question is, has DVD / DVC breached their contract with us? Or have they just exercised their rights to change the rules?

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by stacy6552
I just dont see how that is the case.

SSR owners can book 7 mos out at other resorts just like everyone else. To say they cannot would be to give everyone else priority over them.

What exactly are you expecting to find on Feb 4th when you can book at SSR, that you would not be getting at the regular 7 month mark?

I don't expect to find anything as I don't have any intentions of staying there. The resort does not appeal to me. However, giving SSR owners a one way advantage is not appropriate, period. IMO it violates the spririt of what DVC stands far and is very questionable from both a legal and ethical standpoint. I'm sorry you cannot see that SSR owners have an unfair advantage but it is true. Not only will SSR be dumping extra points into the system without supplying the same number of rooms for the system but SSR owners will have the chance to book at other resorts when another member doesn't have the reverse option. The affect is an expanded set of rooms available to SSR members and a reduced set of rooms to other DVC members. The actual affect will go far beyond the the 2 month window due to the points being dumped into the system when there are no corresponding rooms available. In the past when DVC gave points without rooms they did the MB where they bought back extra points and nullified this problem.