Whats Wrong with Disney?

[sethschroeder]

You said you've been 3 times a year for the past 8 years, which means I'm assuming you've been at least once this year. Taking that into account
let's look at 5-18:

5) Be Our Guest Restaurant - Not new.
6) Under the Sea - Not new.
7) Enchanted Tales with Belle
8) Princess Fairytale Hall Different location. I'd hardly call that a new experience.
9) Festival of Fantasy Parade
10) Seven Dwarfs Mine Train
11) Celebrate the Magic Castle Show
12) Anna and Elsa
13) Star Tours (re-opened just over 3 years ago..) - Not new.
14) Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom - Not new.

(only including things that we do/would do (haven't personally done the Mine Train yet)- there are other things at like Wilderness Explorers, the meet and greets in Storybook Circus, Legend of Jack Sparrow, that we don't do)
and things that cost more money but I still include because they're new... especially dining because that's a huge reason why we go to Disney... (if you can't tell Epcot is our favorite park)- again only including places at which we've actually eaten
14) Spice Road Table
15) La Cava - Not new.
16) Tutto Gusto - Not new.
17) The ice cream martini place in France - Not new.
18) refurbished Cali Grill - Yeah, OK.

You COMPLETELY CHANGED THE CHALLENGE.

Your challenge was for the person to find 24 new attractions in the last 8 years. Are not all of these things new in the last 8 years?

Also to completely blow your mind some people have not been going to WDW each year since 1980... I know right??? We went last year for 8 days and we didn't even touch any of the shows or lesser important rides that we decided to pass over for the sake of time, not to mention skipping some of the overly kiddie things since its just me and my wife for now.

Could Disney build faster? Sure they could if they were really motivated but they don't need to.

Universal is doing great with its expansions but we will see if Disney feels the need to respond with something like star wars. I personally believe Disney has Star Wars in the works and is just waiting on the budget/right time to announce.

Also as a note a couple new things for us this trip since last July:
BOG - NEW
Mine Train - NEW
Fantasy Parade - NEW
Not to mention all the things we didn't have time for last year that in our 12 day trip we should be able to hopefully fit in this time, my most anticipated is Chef's Table at Albert's since it was closed for our honeymoon last year.

 

[MichiganDVC]

I don't think anyone here is saying that the WDW parks aren't crowded. We all know they are. WDW is doing just fine and will continue to do so. But if Universal goes ahead with other projects that are the likes of HP, then WDW needs to step up.

15 some-odd pages ago, the OP asked, "What's Wrong with Disney?" Plenty, including myself, have answered: "Nothing."

Of course, within seconds the discussion turned to how HP and Uni are vastly better than anything WDW has ever done and will ever do (especially, the yet-to-be-built Avatarland!)

Another post mentioned that IoA will see increased attendance and speculated that it will be to the detriment of WDW's secondary parks. I then mentioned that I attended 3/4 parks in the last week and they were all crazy crowded. And will be until September. Diagon Alley or not.


And did you say that Harry Potter was "required" reading in schools? For what age??

 

[clsteve]

I don't think this is true.

The imaginative ideas are still there. It's the executives and bean counters that aren't allowing them to be built.

Agreed.

You have to let your best and brightest loosen up those creativity muscles once in awhile! And I'll bet those Imagineers are praying there aren't any mines, dwarfs, flying elephants or Princesses in the Avatar sequels.......

 

[surferdave]

I don't think this is true.

The imaginative ideas are still there. It's the executives and bean counters that aren't allowing them to be built.

The good ideas and designs are all going overseas (or recently to California).

 

[MichiganDVC]

You COMPLETELY CHANGED THE CHALLENGE.

Your challenge was for the person to find 24 new attractions in the last 8 years. Are not all of these things new in the last 8 years?

Also to completely blow your mind some people have not been going to WDW each year since 1980... I know right??? We went last year for 8 days and we didn't even touch any of the shows or lesser important rides that we decided to pass over for the sake of time, not to mention skipping some of the overly kiddie things since its just me and my wife for now.

Could Disney build faster? Sure they could if they were really motivated but they don't need to.

Universal is doing great with its expansions but we will see if Disney feels the need to respond with something like star wars. I personally believe Disney has Star Wars in the works and is just waiting on the budget/right time to announce.

Also as a note a couple new things for us this trip since last July:
BOG - NEW
Mine Train - NEW
Fantasy Parade - NEW
Not to mention all the things we didn't have time for last year that in our 12 day trip we should be able to hopefully fit in this time, my most anticipated is Chef's Table at Albert's since it was closed for our honeymoon last year.

I think you're missing the Disboards' key narrative: Disney doesn't build anything new. And when they do, it either isn't built fast enough or it is terrible. Either way, its too crowded. And their attendance is going to drop.

 

[bumbershoot]

Ok, so I am 36 years old and female. I have never read a Harry Potter book and nor did most of the people my age that I know. I saw one movie (the first one) and it was ok, but largely unmemorable. I think Harry Potter land would be beautiful, but perhaps confusing to me. I don't care about HP or his friends. I didn't connect with any of the characters or stories and probably would understand the terminology. As a hs teacher, I can tell you that about 3-5 years ago we graduated entire classes of Potter fanatics. That would make them 21-23-ish now. The current high school students don't mention Potter anymore. I'm not sure if they read the books or saw the movies, or if they were too young to be a part of that wave. Maybe they read them in middle school and are now on to The Fault in Our Stars or something. Avatar: I only saw about 7 minutes on YouTube when I heard WDW was doing a Pandora-thing. I thought it looked beautiful and, since I am an AP/DVC visitor to WDW already, I look forward to its development. Don't really care how long it takes either. I'm only 36. Star Wars: Loved the first 3 (1977, 1980, 1983.) LOVED. Didn't see the next three. Would definitely go out of my way to see any Star Wars-themed land, but that means a visit to HS won't be an afterthought. I wouldn't trek to Universal for it. So anyway, I'm not 100% convinced that HP is going to stand the test of time. People who like it right now might pass it down to their kids. But I can tell you that my sister (who is 41) did not read any HP books. Her kids (10, 7, 5) probably won't be encouraged to do so either. I'm not sure that Pandora will require much knowledge of or warm-feelings toward Avatar the movie. A lot of posters have said how closely HP and Diagon Alley resemble the movies and such. If you didn't see the movies, what difference would it make? If HP relies too much on fanboys that soaked up every word and detail of the books and movies, perhaps those types of guests will dwindle over time? I honestly don't know, and I'm sure several usual suspects here whose mouths are still red with HP Kool-aid will tell me that HP is both completely accessible to non-fans (while simultaneously assuring me that Pandora will NOT be) and a dream come true for Potter fans. Okay. I just got back from WDW and it was crazy crowded everywhere. HS...Epcot....MK. You name it. Crowded. All I do know for sure is Disney does not need to hurry up and build 10 more attractions and a 5th gate to compete with anyone.

First, can I recommend giving the hp books another shot? They are actually quite good.

Children are still reading the books and seeing the movies. They are doing it younger, so, no, they probably aren't talking about it by HS. My son is 10 and we've read all and seen all, and consistently notice that his peers are doing the same.

Something for you to think about...the kool aid thing refers to mass murder and suicide of men women and children. It's a seriously ugly way of getting a point across. Worth thinking about the words you are using.

College courses?! Is...Is that true? Wow, college degrees aren't worth what they used to be. Childrens literature was not required reading when I got my BA in English. I spent my British Lit semester on Beowulf and Dante. I mean no offense to those who really like HP books...I like plenty of kid's books, movies, tv shows etc., and there's nothing wrong with it, but high literature they are not. I don't care that the village should be small, it makes it very unpleasant to be there when everything is so cramped. That's like saying that Be Our Guest restaurant shouldn't have electricity because it's supposed to be the 19th century. What I know is that I LOVE candy and would totally buy stuff in that candy store...if I could ever get inside it. I'm not waiting in line to shop. I'm sure Diagon will be a big hit, but I don't necessarily like the way they did it, especially needing a park-hopper to ride the train. I think something better could have gone there as there are plenty of other very popular properties they could have exploited.

I've never had a problem getting inside that shop. The line is annoying sometimes but maybe going at a different time would help.

In 88 I took a college English class that involved reading popular books at the time as well as studying Bruce Springsteen lyrics. Popular stuff has long been used in education.

Not thinking of hp as being children's literature would help you. If you gave it a shot you would find that she's using the same classics as a basis for her stories as other books. The spot where something is classified in a bookstore doesn't mean much. YA books just means marketing; her books are good and powerful for most who read them, no matter the age.

 

[BuzzinDownToDisney]

The good ideas and designs are all going overseas (or recently to California).

Exactly, if they are gonna turn Cars into a trilogy (Debate for another thread) and spin it off into another franchise, they need to get something related to it at one of the Florida parks other than a couple of statues for my kid to take a picture with. The Radiator Springs Land at DL looks outstanding.

 

[luvsJack]

15 some-odd pages ago, the OP asked, "What's Wrong with Disney?" Plenty, including myself, have answered: "Nothing."

Of course, within seconds the discussion turned to how HP and Uni are vastly better than anything WDW has ever done and will ever do (especially, the yet-to-be-built Avatarland!)

Another post mentioned that IoA will see increased attendance and speculated that it will be to the detriment of WDW's secondary parks. I then mentioned that I attended 3/4 parks in the last week and they were all crazy crowded. And will be until September. Diagon Alley or not.


And did you say that Harry Potter was "required" reading in schools? For what age??

I am well aware of the question that started the thread. And where it went from there. Thanks

I am simply responding to "the parks are crowded". Well, yeah, we know. I don't think the OP was implying that they aren't. I don't think he/she was implying that WDW is going under or anything.

What may have been implied is that there is something wrong if they continue to not step up the new attractions that meet the same technology as other parks.

And yes it has been required reading in 6-9th grades. And other English high school classes are talking of adding the last few books. Many kids start reading the books before 6th grade though.

 

[clsteve]

I'm 42. I read the Harry Potter books because I was a librarian and another librarian recommended it to me. Not to mention the countless website, wiki's and other (Fanfiction anyone) I really love the series, it reminded me of the fact that I love books and reading after being depressed by many adult books.

I can easily see Harry Potter joining Narnia, The Oz books, and Little house on the Prairie as being read by many children. Passed down from generation. I can't see into the future that this will happen but I think that it has good odds.

Fault of our stars we will see. I haven't read that book yet so I refuse to pass judgement on it. Sorry completely off topic

I also remember that People thought Disneyland would bomb and that Star Wars would fade away.

Well put.

 

[MichiganDVC]

First, can I recommend giving the hp books another shot? They are actually quite good.

Children are still reading the books and seeing the movies. They are doing it younger, so, no, they probably aren't talking about it by HS. My son is 10 and we've read all and seen all, and consistently notice that his peers are doing the same.

Something for you to think about...the kool aid thing refers to mass murder and suicide of men women and children. It's a seriously ugly way of getting a point across. Worth thinking about the words you are using.

First of all, I'm well aware of Jonestown. However, in the 36 years since that event took place, drinking the Kool-Aid has entered our lexicon as common figure of speech. It actually predates Jonestown.

Secondly, I will never read the HP books. Honestly, I'm 36 and spend all of my time reading historical non-fiction for my classes. If I start reading books that my 7 year old niece is reading, I'll be in real trouble.
Not that they aren't wonderful books. Not that they are just for kids.
But... I'm also not going to reread The Outsiders or anything by Roald Dahl either.

 

[PEC]

I am well aware of the question that started the thread. And where it went from there. Thanks

I am simply responding to "the parks are crowded". Well, yeah, we know. I don't think the OP was implying that they aren't. I don't think he/she was implying that WDW is going under or anything.

What may have been implied is that there is something wrong if they continue to not step up the new attractions that meet the same technology as other parks.

And yes it has been required reading in 6-9th grades. And other English high school classes are talking of adding the last few books. Many kids start reading the books before 6th grade though.

Required readings are hit and miss per teacher. Quick research will show that many do not have it as required reading and some do have it as required reading. I have children going to the 8th grade and so far it has not been mandatory and I do not see it on their lists for next year. Of course there is not a single author that if left off a required reading lists would mean your child is completely deprived. In fact I have seen some lists that could be completely scraped and there replacements would not be just as good if not better. Now that this thread has gone from "what is wrong with Disney" to whether your childs life comes to a screeching halt because a particular book series is or os not on a reading list then you know what happens to these threads once they get started.

 

[luvsJack]

First of all, I'm well aware of Jonestown. However, in the 36 years since that event took place, drinking the Kool-Aid has entered our lexicon as common figure of speech. It actually predates Jonestown.

Secondly, I will never read the HP books. Honestly, I'm 36 and spend all of my time reading historical non-fiction for my classes. If I start reading books that my 7 year old niece is reading, I'll be in real trouble.
Not that they aren't wonderful books. Not that they are just for kids.
But... I'm also not going to reread The Outsiders or anything by Roald Dahl either.

Well, I mean if we are going to insist on looking down our long noses at something. . .

So your students only read historical non-fiction? Didn't you say you are a high school English teacher?

 

[surferdave]

The whole "required reading" thing seems to be a non-issue to me. I don't think there are any popular theme park attractions based on Old Man and the Sea or Moby Dick.

 

[luvsJack]

Required readings are hit and miss per teacher. Quick research will show that many do not have it as required reading and some do have it as required reading. I have children going to the 8th grade and so far it has not been mandatory and I do not see it on their lists for next year. Of course there is not a single author that if left off a required reading lists would mean your child is completely deprived. In fact I have seen some lists that could be completely scraped and there replacements would not be just as good if not better. Now that this thread has gone from "what is wrong with Disney" to whether your childs life comes to a screeching halt because a particular book series is or os not on a reading list then you know what happens to these threads once they get started.

Who said any of that????? I don't remember anyone mentioning anyone being deprived of anything??? or lives coming to a screeching halt.

We were talking about the longevity of Harry Potter and its popularity and the fact of it being required reading is just pointing to the fact that there will be kids reading HP for a very long time.

 

[MichiganDVC]

I am well aware of the question that started the thread. And where it went from there. Thanks

I am simply responding to "the parks are crowded". Well, yeah, we know. I don't think the OP was implying that they aren't. I don't think he/she was implying that WDW is going under or anything.

What may have been implied is that there is something wrong if they continue to not step up the new attractions that meet the same technology as other parks.

And yes it has been required reading in 6-9th grades. And other English high school classes are talking of adding the last few books. Many kids start reading the books before 6th grade though.

Sorry, I was trying to spare you from having to read the first 15 pages if I could. What I, and others, have been trying to say is that Disney is not in any danger of losing profit or attendance. I have said this so many times on these boards, it should be in my signature:
The world population is rising. Plus, there are and will be increasing numbers of people worldwide who can afford to both fly to and stay at Disney parks. Add that to the brand that is Disney: the characters, the movies, the parks, the merch, etc... Disney does not need to do anything to compete with anyone to make a profit. The only people who are holding up the Dewey Defeats Truman newspapers are on these boards. The average person couldn't locate Universal on a map and when it comes time to take their young kids on vacation, an overwhelming majority choose Disney.

 

[kbelle8995]

First, can I recommend giving the hp books another shot? They are actually quite good.

Children are still reading the books and seeing the movies. They are doing it younger, so, no, they probably aren't talking about it by HS. My son is 10 and we've read all and seen all, and consistently notice that his peers are doing the same.

I've never had a problem getting inside that shop. The line is annoying sometimes but maybe going at a different time would help.

In 88 I took a college English class that involved reading popular books at the time as well as studying Bruce Springsteen lyrics. Popular stuff has long been used in education.

Not thinking of hp as being children's literature would help you. If you gave it a shot you would find that she's using the same classics as a basis for her stories as other books. The spot where something is classified in a bookstore doesn't mean much. YA books just means marketing; her books are good and powerful for most who read them, no matter the age.

Well put. I also remember meeting a woman several years ago who wrote her music thesis on the Group RUN-DMC. It made me feel incredible old. Also my College had a large Collection of "Children" books for study and research. HP for instance talks bout some very adult subjects. Death is a big issue in the books.

 

[MichiganDVC]

Well, I mean if we are going to insist on looking down our long noses at something. . .

So your students only read historical non-fiction? Didn't you say you are a high school English teacher?

Wasn't trying to look down on anything. I just don't have time for pleasure reading. My idea of pleasure reading is "A History of the World in Six Glasses."

I am a high school AP World History teacher and I regularly assign historical non-fiction to the students. Also, I have to do plenty of reading on my own to learn new historical perspectives, etc...
But having said that, let's change the topic before I have to think about work again

 

[FLchick415]

I think HP will be around for a VERY long while. I didn't even START reading the books until I was in my late 20s (which, to say, was not that long ago). There are probably a lot of people like me out there, finding it later in life. And then there are people around my age, who grew up reading the books, who will introduce it to their kids....so forth, and so on. It's definitely not just a "fad".

 

[kbelle8995]

Sorry, I was trying to spare you from having to read the first 15 pages if I could. What I, and others, have been trying to say is that Disney is not in any danger of losing profit or attendance. I have said this so many times on these boards, it should be in my signature:
The world population is rising. Plus, there are and will be increasing numbers of people worldwide who can afford to both fly to and stay at Disney parks. Add that to the brand that is Disney: the characters, the movies, the parks, the merch, etc... Disney does not need to do anything to compete with anyone to make a profit. The only people who are holding up the Dewey Defeats Truman newspapers are on these boards. The average person couldn't locate Universal on a map and when it comes time to take their young kids on vacation, an overwhelming majority choose Disney.

There are also people out there who don't like Disney at all. Feel it's too commercial. I always feel that my love of Star Wars is more acceptable than my affection for Disney these days. I also read the comments after the articles about the couple who loved to go to Disneyland while unemployed and several people accused them (mean I thought) of being child molesters.

There are all kinds in this world. I am just saying that HP has a little more staying power than you think. And If it does worry Disney great. It's better for all us visitors to both parks in the long run.

 

[Love Tink]

But... I'm also not going to reread The Outsiders or anything by Roald Dahl either.

Too bad. I've reread The Outsiders and Fantastic Mr. Fox recently (admittedly, I had to, as I was editing literature guides based on the books) and they are (still) wonderful reads.

But I've always been careful not to shut myself off from certain books or topics without giving them a try. It's a hallmark of the intellectually curious.