Whats Wrong with Disney?

[Reddog1134]

And herein lies the problem with Disney. The Imagineers just don't use their imagination anymore.

I don't think this is true.

The imaginative ideas are still there. It's the executives and bean counters that aren't allowing them to be built.

 

[PEC]

A couple things on these.

1. You can not compare Avatar's box office take with the success of Harry Potter. Avatar was one movie that mostly built it's hype due to 3-D special effects that afterward most people wondered why they spent the money. Potter on the other hand is the most popular and successful book series ever written along with it's very successful film series.

When Avatar has millions of fans lined up around the world at midnight to get their hands on a book about it, then lets compare. When Avatar has a college sport created from it or heck, college courses taught about it, then lets compare. When Avatar creates an entire new language, music movement, and has exhibitions all around the world then lets compare. Right now, trying to hold Avatars inflated box office against anything Potter in terms of love and respect is laughable and yes people are scratching their heads over it.

2. Universal could not make Hogsmeade any bigger, especially not the stores. Not unless they completely wanted to break the immersion of theme. Hogsmeade is a tiny village with tiny shops. There is no mega mall of wizarding goods. They planned the space perfectly for what the fans wanted. If they would have made it bigger then most Potter fans would have written it off as garbage period.

3. Diagon Alley is a completely separate place from Hogsmeade and something Universal would have been stupid not to create. There are two places in the Wizarding World that children grow up wanting to walk through and those are Hogwarts and Diagon Alley. Universal had to do those two places to capture the Potter crowd. And they had to do them separately as you can not ever have Hogwarts anywhere near Diagon. To do it this way was not only proper but genius, especially having the Express connect the two. Absolute genius.

Though I am one of the individuals that was one and done with the movie Avatar (I only watched one time on DVD), I am also not going to say a lot of people did not return and really enjoy the movie. It made over 2.8 billion. Frozen is only around 1.2 billion if we want perspective. Another words some group of people liked it and the liked it alot. Now if we want to say that was international and not in the US, it made over 760 million in the US. Frozen was only 400 million for perspective. I do agree that Avatar is not a big commercial success but I do believe it could do some solid theme park attractions. Oh and I am also somebody that would have not gone the Avatar rout at AK but I do realize that unless Disney wants to set AK back a few more years, then that die has already been cast.

 

[MichiganDVC]

I don't know many who say they hate the movie, however...it does seem to be overrated by many and at this point is a unproven franchise and a huge risk for Disney. As a franchise with wide appeal to all ages, it's not even in the same league as Harry Potter...not even remotely close. I think Disney would be far better off investing in Frozen over Avatar. It's not exactly a slouch at the box office.

Ok, so I am 36 years old and female. I have never read a Harry Potter book and nor did most of the people my age that I know. I saw one movie (the first one) and it was ok, but largely unmemorable. I think Harry Potter land would be beautiful, but perhaps confusing to me. I don't care about HP or his friends. I didn't connect with any of the characters or stories and probably would understand the terminology. As a hs teacher, I can tell you that about 3-5 years ago we graduated entire classes of Potter fanatics. That would make them 21-23-ish now. The current high school students don't mention Potter anymore. I'm not sure if they read the books or saw the movies, or if they were too young to be a part of that wave. Maybe they read them in middle school and are now on to The Fault in Our Stars or something.

Avatar: I only saw about 7 minutes on YouTube when I heard WDW was doing a Pandora-thing. I thought it looked beautiful and, since I am an AP/DVC visitor to WDW already, I look forward to its development. Don't really care how long it takes either. I'm only 36.

Star Wars: Loved the first 3 (1977, 1980, 1983.) LOVED. Didn't see the next three. Would definitely go out of my way to see any Star Wars-themed land, but that means a visit to HS won't be an afterthought. I wouldn't trek to Universal for it.

So anyway, I'm not 100% convinced that HP is going to stand the test of time. People who like it right now might pass it down to their kids. But I can tell you that my sister (who is 41) did not read any HP books. Her kids (10, 7, 5) probably won't be encouraged to do so either. I'm not sure that Pandora will require much knowledge of or warm-feelings toward Avatar the movie. A lot of posters have said how closely HP and Diagon Alley resemble the movies and such. If you didn't see the movies, what difference would it make? If HP relies too much on fanboys that soaked up every word and detail of the books and movies, perhaps those types of guests will dwindle over time? I honestly don't know, and

I'm sure several usual suspects here whose mouths are still red with HP Kool-aid will tell me that HP is both completely accessible to non-fans (while simultaneously assuring me that Pandora will NOT be) and a dream come true for Potter fans. Okay.

I just got back from WDW and it was crazy crowded everywhere. HS...Epcot....MK. You name it. Crowded. All I do know for sure is Disney does not need to hurry up and build 10 more attractions and a 5th gate to compete with anyone.

 

[sonofanarchy]

An interesting point (I think anyways). People talk about how huge Avatar was. Let's not forget inflation, IMAX and 3D. Just looking at inflation, Snow White and 101 Dalmations both sold more tickets, not to mention 2 of the Star Wars films. Adjusted (not including the 3D and IMAX upcharge), Avatar would actually be #14 all time. E.T. would be #4. Now, as much as E.T. has stood the test of time, I really don't think people would care a whole heck of a lot about an entire land based on it.

If you add in IMAX and 3D, there are about 30 movies that sold more tickets than Avatar. The original Star Wars sold literally, more than twice as many tickets. If anything, THAT is where Disney should be focusing their attention.

 

[mom2rtk]

Ok, so I am 36 years old and female. I have never read a Harry Potter book and nor did most of the people my age that I know. I saw one movie (the first one) and it was ok, but largely unmemorable. I think Harry Potter land would be beautiful, but perhaps confusing to me. I don't care about HP or his friends. I didn't connect with any of the characters or stories and probably would understand the terminology. As a hs teacher, I can tell you that about 3-5 years ago we graduated entire classes of Potter fanatics. That would make them 21-23-ish now. The current high school students don't mention Potter anymore. I'm not sure if they read the books or saw the movies, or if they were too young to be a part of that wave. Maybe they read them in middle school and are now on to The Fault in Our Stars or something.

Avatar: I only saw about 7 minutes on YouTube when I heard WDW was doing a Pandora-thing. I thought it looked beautiful and, since I am an AP/DVC visitor to WDW already, I look forward to its development. Don't really care how long it takes either. I'm only 36.

Star Wars: Loved the first 3 (1977, 1980, 1983.) LOVED. Didn't see the next three. Would definitely go out of my way to see any Star Wars-themed land, but that means a visit to HS won't be an afterthought. I wouldn't trek to Universal for it.

So anyway, I'm not 100% convinced that HP is going to stand the test of time. People who like it right now might pass it down to their kids. But I can tell you that my sister (who is 41) did not read any HP books. Her kids (10, 7, 5) probably won't be encouraged to do so either. I'm not sure that Pandora will require much knowledge of or warm-feelings toward Avatar the movie. A lot of posters have said how closely HP and Diagon Alley resemble the movies and such. If you didn't see the movies, what difference would it make? If HP relies too much on fanboys that soaked up every word and detail of the books and movies, perhaps those types of guests will dwindle over time? I honestly don't know, and

I'm sure several usual suspects here whose mouths are still red with HP Kool-aid will tell me that HP is both completely accessible to non-fans (while simultaneously assuring me that Pandora will NOT be) and a dream come true for Potter fans. Okay.

I just got back from WDW and it was crazy crowded everywhere. HS...Epcot....MK. You name it. Crowded. All I do know for sure is Disney does not need to hurry up and build 10 more attractions and a 5th gate to compete with anyone.

My boys (19 and 21) both read HP in school. My daughter is 13 and she read it in grade school too. It's very big in 4th and 5th grade. I think Fault in Our Stars is more of a Middle School phenomenon.

As long as grade school kids read, there will be new fans in the pipeline for HP.

 

[sonofanarchy]

I just got back from WDW and it was crazy crowded everywhere. HS...Epcot....MK. You name it. Crowded. All I do know for sure is Disney does not need to hurry up and build 10 more attractions and a 5th gate to compete with anyone.

I have no doubt that it was crowded, but given that 2 of the 4 parks are only drawing 2 million more guests per year than Islands of Adventure (and that number will shrink drastically against Universal next year), I'd say they have their competition.

 

[PEC]

Ok, so I am 36 years old and female. I have never read a Harry Potter book and nor did most of the people my age that I know. I saw one movie (the first one) and it was ok, but largely unmemorable. I think Harry Potter land would be beautiful, but perhaps confusing to me. I don't care about HP or his friends. I didn't connect with any of the characters or stories and probably would understand the terminology. As a hs teacher, I can tell you that about 3-5 years ago we graduated entire classes of Potter fanatics. That would make them 21-23-ish now. The current high school students don't mention Potter anymore. I'm not sure if they read the books or saw the movies, or if they were too young to be a part of that wave. Maybe they read them in middle school and are now on to The Fault in Our Stars or something.

Avatar: I only saw about 7 minutes on YouTube when I heard WDW was doing a Pandora-thing. I thought it looked beautiful and, since I am an AP/DVC visitor to WDW already, I look forward to its development. Don't really care how long it takes either. I'm only 36.

Star Wars: Loved the first 3 (1977, 1980, 1983.) LOVED. Didn't see the next three. Would definitely go out of my way to see any Star Wars-themed land, but that means a visit to HS won't be an afterthought. I wouldn't trek to Universal for it.

So anyway, I'm not 100% convinced that HP is going to stand the test of time. People who like it right now might pass it down to their kids. But I can tell you that my sister (who is 41) did not read any HP books. Her kids (10, 7, 5) probably won't be encouraged to do so either. I'm not sure that Pandora will require much knowledge of or warm-feelings toward Avatar the movie. A lot of posters have said how closely HP and Diagon Alley resemble the movies and such. If you didn't see the movies, what difference would it make? If HP relies too much on fanboys that soaked up every word and detail of the books and movies, perhaps those types of guests will dwindle over time? I honestly don't know, and

I'm sure several usual suspects here whose mouths are still red with HP Kool-aid will tell me that HP is both completely accessible to non-fans (while simultaneously assuring me that Pandora will NOT be) and a dream come true for Potter fans. Okay.

I just got back from WDW and it was crazy crowded everywhere. HS...Epcot....MK. You name it. Crowded. All I do know for sure is Disney does not need to hurry up and build 10 more attractions and a 5th gate to compete with anyone.

I hope you were forewarned that a crew of HP diehards are fixing to blasts you for everything you are worth.

 

[FLchick415]

I'm not sure why some feel like you'd have to be a fan of Avatar to enjoy the new area in AK. I never saw the movie. Have no intention on doing so. I won't see the sequels. BUT...I'm still really excited for Pandora at AK. The concept art looks amazing. If it's done well, that's what matters IMO. YMMV

 

[MichiganDVC]

I have no doubt that it was crowded, but given that 2 of the 4 parks are only drawing 2 million more guests per year than Islands of Adventure (and that number will shrink drastically against Universal next year), I'd say they have their competition.

Well, HS was crazy crowded on a Thursday afternoon. Didn't have time to get to AK. Epcot was crowded until it stormed. Furthermore, I don't think HP alone is going to draw crowds AWAY from WDW. It is simply significantly cheaper for most people, especially first-time/one-time visitors to just stay at WDW for 5 days rather than do 3 days at Disney and 2 at USF.

I hope you were forewarned that a crew of HP diehards are fixing to blasts you for everything you are worth.

Its happened before, it'll happen today, it'll happen tomorrow. Its kinda like what they say about death and taxes....

I'm not sure why some feel like you'd have to be a fan of Avatar to enjoy the new area in AK. I never saw the movie. Have no intention on doing so. I won't see the sequels. BUT...I'm still really excited for Pandora at AK. The concept art looks amazing. If it's done well, that's what matters IMO. YMMV

Exactly.

 

[Mad Hattered]

I don't know many who say they hate the movie, however...it does seem to be overrated by many and at this point is an unproven franchise and a huge risk for Disney. As a franchise with wide appeal to all ages, it's not even in the same league as Harry Potter...not even remotely close. I think Disney would be far better off investing in Frozen over Avatar. It's not exactly a slouch at the box office.

The ONLY reason Avatar made as much money as it did was because of the "new" 3D at the time. Those are a dime a dozen now so it won't have that to spout about in the sequels. 81% of Avatar's take comes from 3D and 3D IMAX tickets which we all know are sold with a premium.

From Box Office Mojo:

Breaking domestic down, nearly 81 percent of Avatar's gross is from 3D presentations. Normal 3D accounts for over 64 percent of the gross, while IMAX 3D accounts for more than 16 percent. That leaves the 2D theaters with an over 19 percent share of the gross.

According to the National Association of Theater Owners, the latest available statistic for national average ticket price is $7.61 for the fourth quarter of 2009. IMAX reports an average ticket price of $14.58, but, at the time of this writing, there is no official word for regular 3D presentations. A survey of theaters across the country shows a $2 to $4 premium for 3D over 2D and indicates a $10 average ticket price. With these stats one can estimate 38.7 million tickets have been sold in regular 3D, 15.2 million sold in 2D and 6.8 million tickets sold in IMAX 3D.

All told, Avatar's estimated admission count is 60.7 million thus far, or less than Titanic through the same point (47 days in). It's also less than half of Titanic's 128 million total estimated admissions.

There is no gimmick this time.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

Avatar was beautiful but the plot was rehashed from a bazillion other movies and the characters unmemorable.

So I'm sure Disney's going to go with a "wow, isn't that beautiful and interesting looking" appeal rather than market meet and greets with tall naked blue creatures, whose names most viewers don't remember.

as to whether that's enough to compete with Harry Potter, I don't think Disney cares.

 

[kbelle8995]

I'm 42. I read the Harry Potter books because I was a librarian and another librarian recommended it to me. Not to mention the countless website, wiki's and other (Fanfiction anyone) I really love the series, it reminded me of the fact that I love books and reading after being depressed by many adult books.

I can easily see Harry Potter joining Narnia, The Oz books, and Little house on the Prairie as being read by many children. Passed down from generation. I can't see into the future that this will happen but I think that it has good odds.

Fault of our stars we will see. I haven't read that book yet so I refuse to pass judgement on it. Sorry completely off topic

I also remember that People thought Disneyland would bomb and that Star Wars would fade away.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Ok, so I am 36 years old and female. I have never read a Harry Potter book and nor did most of the people my age that I know. I saw one movie (the first one) and it was ok, but largely unmemorable. I think Harry Potter land would be beautiful, but perhaps confusing to me. I don't care about HP or his friends. I didn't connect with any of the characters or stories and probably would understand the terminology. As a hs teacher, I can tell you that about 3-5 years ago we graduated entire classes of Potter fanatics. That would make them 21-23-ish now. The current high school students don't mention Potter anymore. I'm not sure if they read the books or saw the movies, or if they were too young to be a part of that wave. Maybe they read them in middle school and are now on to The Fault in Our Stars or something.

Avatar: I only saw about 7 minutes on YouTube when I heard WDW was doing a Pandora-thing. I thought it looked beautiful and, since I am an AP/DVC visitor to WDW already, I look forward to its development. Don't really care how long it takes either. I'm only 36.

Star Wars: Loved the first 3 (1977, 1980, 1983.) LOVED. Didn't see the next three. Would definitely go out of my way to see any Star Wars-themed land, but that means a visit to HS won't be an afterthought. I wouldn't trek to Universal for it.

So anyway, I'm not 100% convinced that HP is going to stand the test of time. People who like it right now might pass it down to their kids. But I can tell you that my sister (who is 41) did not read any HP books. Her kids (10, 7, 5) probably won't be encouraged to do so either. I'm not sure that Pandora will require much knowledge of or warm-feelings toward Avatar the movie. A lot of posters have said how closely HP and Diagon Alley resemble the movies and such. If you didn't see the movies, what difference would it make? If HP relies too much on fanboys that soaked up every word and detail of the books and movies, perhaps those types of guests will dwindle over time? I honestly don't know, and

I'm sure several usual suspects here whose mouths are still red with HP Kool-aid will tell me that HP is both completely accessible to non-fans (while simultaneously assuring me that Pandora will NOT be) and a dream come true for Potter fans. Okay.

I just got back from WDW and it was crazy crowded everywhere. HS...Epcot....MK. You name it. Crowded. All I do know for sure is Disney does not need to hurry up and build 10 more attractions and a 5th gate to compete with anyone.

Yeah....as long as we don't dumb down kids enough to stop reading then HP will always be popular...hands down.

 

[Jennasis]

I work in a library and HP is check out constantly (as are the movies).

 

[Mad Hattered]

I'm 42. I read the Harry Potter books because I was a librarian and another librarian recommended it to me. Not to mention the countless website, wiki's and other (Fanfiction anyone) I really love the series, it reminded me of the fact that I love books and reading after being depressed by many adult books.

I can easily see Harry Potter joining Narnia, The Oz books, and Little house on the Prairie as being read by many children. Passed down from generation. I can't see into the future that this will happen but I think that it has good odds.

Fault of our stars we will see. I haven't read that book yet so I refuse to pass judgement on it.

I also remember that People thought Disneyland would bomb and that Star Wars would fade away.

My wife is 46 and has read the series 3 times (not to mention seeing the movies countless times).

Our best friend has twin boys who turn 7 this year. She has already purchased new HP books for them to read (hers were worn out from reading them so much )

 

[kbelle8995]

My wife is 46 and has read the series 3 times (not to mention seeing the movies countless times).

Our best friend has twin boys who turn 7 this year. She has already purchased new HP books for them to read (hers were worn out from reading them so much )

I love it. Oh I am still a librarian. So I always encourage people to read. Oh and Harry Potter audiobooks are wonderful. Jim Dale is fantastic.

 

[BuzzinDownToDisney]

Here's the difference to me. HP CAN be re-read and re-watched by fans who loved it during it's original run.

Ever watch Avatar on a normal HDTV? It's awful. I never saw it in the theaters, but rented it when it came out. Watched it on my buddy's 60+ inch HDTV with all the trimmings (No 3D) and high def sound system. Halfway through I was playing with my phone. Pretty movie for sure, but does not hold up on the only medium available for the average person to watch it.

 

[BrianL]

A couple things on these.

1. You can not compare Avatar's box office take with the success of Harry Potter. Avatar was one movie that mostly built it's hype due to 3-D special effects that afterward most people wondered why they spent the money. Potter on the other hand is the most popular and successful book series ever written along with it's very successful film series.

When Avatar has millions of fans lined up around the world at midnight to get their hands on a book about it, then lets compare. When Avatar has a college sport created from it or heck, college courses taught about it, then lets compare. When Avatar creates an entire new language, music movement, and has exhibitions all around the world then lets compare. Right now, trying to hold Avatars inflated box office against anything Potter in terms of love and respect is laughable and yes people are scratching their heads over it.

2. Universal could not make Hogsmeade any bigger, especially not the stores. Not unless they completely wanted to break the immersion of theme. Hogsmeade is a tiny village with tiny shops. There is no mega mall of wizarding goods. They planned the space perfectly for what the fans wanted. If they would have made it bigger then most Potter fans would have written it off as garbage period.

3. Diagon Alley is a completely separate place from Hogsmeade and something Universal would have been stupid not to create. There are two places in the Wizarding World that children grow up wanting to walk through and those are Hogwarts and Diagon Alley. Universal had to do those two places to capture the Potter crowd. And they had to do them separately as you can not ever have Hogwarts anywhere near Diagon. To do it this way was not only proper but genius, especially having the Express connect the two. Absolute genius.

College courses?! Is...Is that true? Wow, college degrees aren't worth what they used to be. Childrens literature was not required reading when I got my BA in English. I spent my British Lit semester on Beowulf and Dante.

I mean no offense to those who really like HP books...I like plenty of kid's books, movies, tv shows etc., and there's nothing wrong with it, but high literature they are not.

I don't care that the village should be small, it makes it very unpleasant to be there when everything is so cramped. That's like saying that Be Our Guest restaurant shouldn't have electricity because it's supposed to be the 19th century. What I know is that I LOVE candy and would totally buy stuff in that candy store...if I could ever get inside it. I'm not waiting in line to shop.

I'm sure Diagon will be a big hit, but I don't necessarily like the way they did it, especially needing a park-hopper to ride the train. I think something better could have gone there as there are plenty of other very popular properties they could have exploited.

 

[luvsJack]

Ok, so I am 36 years old and female. I have never read a Harry Potter book and nor did most of the people my age that I know. I saw one movie (the first one) and it was ok, but largely unmemorable. I think Harry Potter land would be beautiful, but perhaps confusing to me. I don't care about HP or his friends. I didn't connect with any of the characters or stories and probably would understand the terminology. As a hs teacher, I can tell you that about 3-5 years ago we graduated entire classes of Potter fanatics. That would make them 21-23-ish now. The current high school students don't mention Potter anymore. I'm not sure if they read the books or saw the movies, or if they were too young to be a part of that wave. Maybe they read them in middle school and are now on to The Fault in Our Stars or something.

Avatar: I only saw about 7 minutes on YouTube when I heard WDW was doing a Pandora-thing. I thought it looked beautiful and, since I am an AP/DVC visitor to WDW already, I look forward to its development. Don't really care how long it takes either. I'm only 36.

Star Wars: Loved the first 3 (1977, 1980, 1983.) LOVED. Didn't see the next three. Would definitely go out of my way to see any Star Wars-themed land, but that means a visit to HS won't be an afterthought. I wouldn't trek to Universal for it.

So anyway, I'm not 100% convinced that HP is going to stand the test of time. People who like it right now might pass it down to their kids. But I can tell you that my sister (who is 41) did not read any HP books. Her kids (10, 7, 5) probably won't be encouraged to do so either. I'm not sure that Pandora will require much knowledge of or warm-feelings toward Avatar the movie. A lot of posters have said how closely HP and Diagon Alley resemble the movies and such. If you didn't see the movies, what difference would it make? If HP relies too much on fanboys that soaked up every word and detail of the books and movies, perhaps those types of guests will dwindle over time? I honestly don't know, and

I'm sure several usual suspects here whose mouths are still red with HP Kool-aid will tell me that HP is both completely accessible to non-fans (while simultaneously assuring me that Pandora will NOT be) and a dream come true for Potter fans. Okay.

I just got back from WDW and it was crazy crowded everywhere. HS...Epcot....MK. You name it. Crowded. All I do know for sure is Disney does not need to hurry up and build 10 more attractions and a 5th gate to compete with anyone.

I think you are missing the point that HP is the type of books that will be required reading for school in years to come. These aren't just the kind of books that will be a spur of the moment thing. At all.

Pandora may be beautiful and may be a wonderful addition to AK. That doesn't mean that its going to be as wildly popular as HP or that it has the longevity of HP.

Star Wars does. IF they do something great with Star Wars and that is where the question lies, will they?


I don't think anyone here is saying that the WDW parks aren't crowded. We all know they are. WDW is doing just fine and will continue to do so. But if Universal goes ahead with other projects that are the likes of HP, then WDW needs to step up.

 

[luvsJack]

College courses?! Is...Is that true? Wow, college degrees aren't worth what they used to be. Childrens literature was not required reading when I got my BA in English. I spent my British Lit semester on Beowulf and Dante.

I mean no offense to those who really like HP books...I like plenty of kid's books, movies, tv shows etc., and there's nothing wrong with it, but high literature they are not.

I don't care that the village should be small, it makes it very unpleasant to be there when everything is so cramped. That's like saying that Be Our Guest restaurant shouldn't have electricity because it's supposed to be the 19th century. What I know is that I LOVE candy and would totally buy stuff in that candy store...if I could ever get inside it. I'm not waiting in line to shop.

I'm sure Diagon will be a big hit, but I don't necessarily like the way they did it, especially needing a park-hopper to ride the train. I think something better could have gone there as there are plenty of other very popular properties they could have exploited.

Have you actually read the books? And they are a far cry from "children's books".