What's with the Jesus skywriting?

[4theloveofdisney]

So, as Christians, we listen to the word of Jesus because he came to spread a message of peace & tolerence. And he openly stated many things that conflicted with the OT...already used the example of eye for an eye vs. turn the other cheek. Think of the NT as the very reason why God sent Jesus, to set the record straight.

So...God screwed up and Jesus was his band-aid?

I have been reading every word in this thread. I have been really searching to understand. I have struggled with what was preached to me from a young age. I might as well just say it - I think, and always have, that the bible is full of "stories". I never once thought that God could be so awful. I made up my mind when I was about 8 or so that God simply couldn't have ordered death or would have been so cruel in many situations. God couldn't have killed mother's and their babies. Okay - maybe HE didn't do it but he ordered it.

Simply put, I don't think that we need to live our lives reading between the lines of the bible - it was written SO long ago. It just fuels the fire for the unstable to do things in the name of God.

Many posters on this thread have admitted that certain things in the bible no longer apply to our lives today and therefore they are not followed. Why then would you follow other things. I love that one poster said it was "Cherry Picking" because it is! Many have stated that we cannot go by every single thing written in it. This is an ancient book! And I have to add, who knows how many times it was written and re-written. You know that old story/game where you whisper a sentence to someone and the have to pass it on to the next person and so on and by the time you get to the end of the line the entire sentence has changed? Why isn't is possible that the bible is just that - many thoughts/stories/dreams/PROPHECIES passed down - not something that you follow like a guide manual on how to work your new digital camera.

If you go back and read about the different cultures of this world - many who never, ever had even heard of the other - they all belived in some devine power/being. Is it so wrong to just live your life believing that there is a good entity out there and a bad one as well. Isn't is good enough to do good deeds, be a good person, help your fellow mankind, give to your community, love your family and be the best person that you can be? Or will the murderer next door who was the model church goer/wife beater/alcoholic get to heaven before me.

Because many of you say that the only way to go to heaven is to join XYZ religion and I have to ask how do you know you picked the right one? As another poster said, if God is such an awesome God, why do you think that there is only one path to follow to go to him???? AND just because you witness to someone once doesn't mean that they "get it". So you are condemning them to hell because you told them about Jesus but they didn't decide to act. Whoa!!!! You have to know that it sounds kind of freaky to someone who doesn't know didly about God and I would hate to think that God only gives us all one chance and by many of your own statements that just can't be true because we were made to sin.

Just becuase you go to church and pray doesn't make you a Christian no more than going to McDonalds makes you a hamburger. Actions speak louder than words and there are too many people in this world who hide behind their "religion".

I have loved reading all of your thoughts. I have learned many new things as well and I really enjoyed it and now it's time to move on.

Jenny - G_D bless you always. (Hope that's okay to say!) You have only written totally beautiful messages. I have come to a new understanding about the Jewish religion. (Never thought bad to begin with but have come away from this thread with an awe!)

Thanks to others that understood where I was coming from and took the time to explain things to me as well.

And as for the skywriter guy...

there are worse things in the world to be nervous, worried or offended and uncomfortable about - although I understand other's feelings on the issue.

Hope to see you all around on other threads. It's been fun!

 

[JennyMominRI]

Jenny - G_D bless you always. (Hope that's okay to say!) You have only written totally beautiful messages. I have come to a new understanding about the Jewish religion. (Never thought bad to begin with but have come away from this thread with an awe!)

Thanks And yes,G-d Bless is always appropriate.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

So he fulfilled his covenant at all costs.

Sorry, I've been doing laundry for a couple hours so I haven't checked on this.Yes, that is what I believe, including leaving the glories of heaven and coming to earth, humbling Himself, because He knew there was no other way to bridge the gap between God and man.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Sorry, I've been doing laundry for a couple hours so I haven't checked on this.

Shame on you. Doing laundry when there is good debate to be had

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

Shame on you. Doing laundry when there is good debate to be had

You know what they say, "cleanliness is next to Godliness!!" If that is the measure I won't make it!!! I saw your post Jenny and I will get to it tomorrow. My sweet husband just came back from out of town and I would like to spend a little time with him! You really make me think, girl! Appreciate you!

 

[BurkeTribe]

God was working to fulfill His Promise, His covenant with Israel, which had to be accomplished. He is bound by His Word.

Omnipotent beings who can think of no better way to "accomplish" their promises than killing babies and children would be defined as "demons" in my book. If I thought any such things existed.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

Omnipotent beings who can think of no better way to "accomplish" their promises than killing babies and children would be defined as "demons" in my book.

I can understand your thinking that. What if someone broke into your house and you knew they would do harm to your family, even if it was a child who seemed to be out of control or "possessed". Would you have a problem taking them down to protect your precious family, your innocent children, you love more that anything or anyone? I don't think I would. God knew the beginning from the end, He could see the whole picture, maybe hard for our little minds to understand, but even Israel knew God had their welfare as a priority. Maybe not at all times, because we know they did doubt Him, but they did get to the promised land, even if it took 40 years! They were established as a nation. My husband is calling, you all have a great night!

 

[BurkeTribe]

Isn't is good enough to do good deeds, be a good person, help your fellow mankind, give to your community, love your family and be the best person that you can be?

It absolutely is

THAT is the Universal Truth, IMO...
if only more people would see it

 

[graygables]

Omnipotent beings who can think of no better way to "accomplish" their promises than killing babies and children would be defined as "demons" in my book. If I thought any such things existed.

God being both omnipotent and omniscient also knows what those "babies and children" will grow up to do and as such, knew it was in the best interest of the future of the Israelites if that was not allowed to happen. If I *knew* someone was going to harm my children, you bet your sweet bippy that I'd take some measures to prevent that from happening. I don't understand why people can't get past the "God kills babies" thing and understand it in its hisorical and cultural context.

 

[BurkeTribe]

I can understand your thinking that. What if someone broke into your house and you knew they would do harm to your family, even if it was a child who seemed to be out of control or "possessed". Would you have a problem taking them down to protect your precious family, your innocent children, you love more that anything or anyone? I don't think I would.

If I were omnipotent, that "somoeone" would instantly be teleported to Borneo. I wouldn't kill him... and his wife, and his children, and his dog, and his goldfish. And I especially wouldn't kill his greatgreatgreat (great^15) grandchildren.
To do so would make me Evil, IMO-- egregiously so because of the omnipotence.

 

[BurkeTribe]

God being both omnipotent and omniscient also knows what those "babies and children" will grow up to do and as such, knew it was in the best interest of the future of the Israelites if that was not allowed to happen. If I *knew* someone was going to harm my children, you bet your sweet bippy that I'd take some measures to prevent that from happening. I don't understand why people can't get past the "God kills babies" thing and understand it in its hisorical and cultural context.

Because a Good omnipotent creator-being would never need to kill babies and children out of jealousy, or for revenge, or to "accomplish" "promises" to one group of people... that is more the supposed modus operandi of evil and demonic creatures.

Sure, I'll accept it as a muddled history, only without the "god" stories: ancient savage races and sects often gleefully tried to commit genocide on each other for land and power, behind the banner of "our magic spirits are best." The "historical and cultural context" is what created the need for the addition of a "god" or more, so as to justify the slaughter to those in the culture who would question.

 

[JennyMominRI]

God being both omnipotent and omniscient also knows what those "babies and children" will grow up to do and as such, knew it was in the best interest of the future of the Israelites if that was not allowed to happen. If I *knew* someone was going to harm my children, you bet your sweet bippy that I'd take some measures to prevent that from happening. I don't understand why people can't get past the "God kills babies" thing and understand it in its hisorical and cultural context.

I'm sorry but I will never accept the killing of children and babies because they will do something bad later..This is the exact mentality the Nazis had when they shoved children into the gas chamber..Better get them all before they grow up to be full grown vermin... If I truly believed G-d ordered ,or even condoned the killing of children , I would be an athiest in a heartbeat..
We are all G-ds children, not just Jews. Those dead babies in the Tanakh were G-ds children

 

[jimmiej]

Buckalew..I had to come back to this with a thought.... You say,if what Jews believe is true then what was the point of Jesus? Why did he have to come..Well think about what the Jewish mom said last night about the Christian moms ancestors being Pagans 2000 years ago.. That's true(and I also know some perfectly lovely pagans today)..But back then when you believe that Jesus came there were 2 types of people, Pagans and Jews..And the Jews were small in number..Well, Your Jesus brought how many people to a belief in the G-d of Abraham? Had he not come many many people would have continued with the same religious practices they had 2000 years ago?You would not have a world that is 1/3 Christian ,a world in which 1/3 of the world believes in the God of Abraham..More if you add in Muslims.. So you can say that Jesus would still have a purpose. It was to bring Many, many, billions of people to the G-d of Abraham.

The Bible says Jesus came for the Jews FIRST:

Matthew 1

16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Also:

Romans 15

8For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs
He came strictly as an ATONEMENT for sin.

Romans 3

21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

When the Jews rejected Him:

Luke 9

Peter's Confession of Christ
18Once when Jesus was praying in private and his disciples were with him, he asked them, "Who do the crowds say I am?"
19They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, that one of the prophets of long ago has come back to life."

20"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
Peter answered, "The Christ of God."

21Jesus strictly warned them not to tell this to anyone. 22And he said, "The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life."

The Gospel was taken to the Gentiles. Paul was ordained by Jesus for this task.

Romans 15

15I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me 16to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Aidensmom]

I'm sorry but I will never accept the killing of children and babies because they will do something bad later..This is the exact mentlity the Nazis had when they shoved children into the gas chamber..Better get them all before they grow up to be full grown vermin... If I truly believeg-d ordered or even condoned the killing of children I would be an athiest in a heartbeat..
We areall G-ds children, not just Jews.

Jenny, I completely agree with you. I don't believe children were ever killed because that is what GOD wanted, but because that is what MAN wanted. A lot of bad stuff has happened on this earth, and I don't believe for one second it was not the fault of man. I do believe God gave us free will, which means we are all free to do bad, and than many people have chosen that route throughout time. Yes, some may claim to do it in the name of god, but free will means those people are free to LIE.

 

[JennyMominRI]

The Bible says Jesus came for the Jews FIRST:

]

Hi Jimmie,
I realize your Bible says that..Mine doesn't,so for me NT verses are meaningless..For other, they may have value though.
I was posting to express why I ,as a Jew, can still see a value in Jesus life and death, even if I don't belive he also did what you(Christians) believe he did.

 

[jimmiej]

Isn't is good enough to do good deeds, be a good person, help your fellow mankind, give to your community, love your family and be the best person that you can be? Or will the murderer next door who was the model church goer/wife beater/alcoholic get to heaven before me.

How good does one have to be? Whose standard are we using?

 

[JennyMominRI]

How good does one have to be? Whose standard are we using?

It's not about how good we are, it's about whether or not we try .G-d knows

 

[jimmiej]

Hi Jimmie,
I realize your Bible says that..Mine doesn't,so for me NT verses are meaningless..For other, they may have value though.
I was posting to express why I ,as a Jew, can still see a value in Jesus life and death, even if I don't belive he also did what you(Christians) believe he did.

All the Scripture I quoted was written (or said) by Jews.

Jenny, my post was really written for others; your post was a good launching spot.

 

[JennyMominRI]

All the Scripture I quoted was written (or said) by Jews.

Jenny, my post was really written for others; your post was a good launching spot.

Sorry about that

 

[Aidensmom]

There was a thread here (with a poll) a few days ago about if people considered themselves "good" people. I found it very interesting, especially because I was one of the outcasts to vote that there are no good people.

It bothers me to catergorize people, especially myself, because, as JimmieJ asks, what standards are we using?

According to my beliefs, none of us are "good" in that we are not above sin. I completely understand what JimmieJ is asking.