What's with the Jesus skywriting?

[JoyG]

Oh no! Your parting post left too many questions to be answered! Well, just in case you pop in one more time, I'll just throw my answers out there.

[ Think of the NT as the very reason why God sent Jesus, to set the record straight.

So...God screwed up and Jesus was his band-aid?

No, I didn't agree with Loreli's characterization of why God sent Jesus. Aiden'smom explained it better a couple of posts back. (No offense Loreli).

And I have to add, who knows how many times it was written and re-written. You know that old story/game where you whisper a sentence to someone and the have to pass it on to the next person and so on and by the time you get to the end of the line the entire sentence has changed?

This is an excellent question. If you are truly interested in knowing the answer and not just casually asking the question on the DIS, I'd suggest you google the translation process of the Bible...you will find it was meticulous and they took great care for just the reasons you explained.

Isn't is good enough to do good deeds, be a good person, help your fellow mankind, give to your community, love your family and be the best person that you can be?

I honestly believe that it is NOT good enough. All of our good works are like filthy rags compared to the righteousness of God. We can never be good enough, that's why we need Jesus. We should never give up trying to do good, but we must remember no matter how much we "do" it won't be enough.

Or will the murderer next door who was the model church goer/wife beater/alcoholic get to heaven before me.

I doubt the "model church goer" who beat his wife and murdered someone was truly a christian...but only God knows that.

Because many of you say that the only way to go to heaven is to join XYZ religion and I have to ask how do you know you picked the right one?

I started with faith first. I had faith I'd found the "right one" because of the evidence in my life and the lives of the other christians around me.

After that (because I'm such questioner ) I have slowly and meticulously been researching other religions: what they believe and why. I try to read about each faith from a variety of sources and after studying each one I've been able to honestly "cross them off my list". I've identified where I believe they've erred and why.

I'm an evangelical christian, and I started there. I studied the roots of our faith, the history of the Bible. Once I confirmed that the Bible would remain my "Gold Standard", I then researched Catholics, Muslims, Mormons, and Jews will be next (thanks to Jenny!). I just line up what they claim to believe with what the Bible says.

As another poster said, if God is such an awesome God, why do you think that there is only one path to follow to go to him????

Jesus claimed he was the only way. I can only go by what the Bible says.

AND just because you witness to someone once doesn't mean that they "get it". So you are condemning them to hell because you told them about Jesus but they didn't decide to act.

I don't have the power to condemn anyone to Hell. I hope that I have been able to just honestly and frankly explain what christians believe and why. I'm just trying to give you the same straight answers I myself look for when researching other faiths.

Whoa!!!! You have to know that it sounds kind of freaky to someone who doesn't know didly about God and I would hate to think that God only gives us all one chance and by many of your own statements that just can't be true because we were made to sin.

Sounds like you have really taken quite a journey with us on this thread and you've come to your conclusions, or confirmed conclusions you already had. I hope that if you are truly questioning that you also take some time and read some books about christianity, do some research. Although I love the DIS, there are so many other sources out there for you that can really give you the meaty answers you might be looking for.

Just becuase you go to church and pray doesn't make you a Christian no more than going to McDonalds makes you a hamburger. Actions speak louder than words and there are too many people in this world who hide behind their "religion".

So true.

I have loved reading all of your thoughts. I have learned many new things as well and I really enjoyed it and now it's time to move on.

I've enjoyed it too. Good luck on your journey.

Joy

 

[Saxsoon]

It's not about how good we are, it's about whether or not we try .G-d knows

I happen to agree with this, the only part missing being Jesus.

 

[Buckalew11]

I'm sorry but I will never accept the killing of children and babies because they will do something bad later..This is the exact mentality the Nazis had when they shoved children into the gas chamber..Better get them all before they grow up to be full grown vermin... If I truly believed G-d ordered ,or even condoned the killing of children , I would be an athiest in a heartbeat..
We are all G-ds children, not just Jews. Those dead babies in the Tanakh were G-ds children

I am just wondering... when the Jews were slaves in Egypt, God sent the angel of death (or something like that, I think), as one of the plagues to set them free, to kill the first born son of the Egyptians (if I am remembering that correctly). This was a command given to angel by God, right?
I am just trying to think of times when children were killed and this pops in my mind.

 

[JoyG]

There was a thread here (with a poll) a few days ago about if people considered themselves "good" people. I found it very interesting, especially because I was one of the outcasts to vote that there are no good people.

It bothers me to catergorize people, especially myself, because, as JimmieJ asks, what standards are we using?

According to my beliefs, none of us are "good" in that we are not above sin. I completely understand what JimmieJ is asking.

I posted that poll and I also picked "no good people."

 

[jimmiej]

It's not about how good we are, it's about whether or not we try .G-d knows

A little is as good as a lot, as long as we mean well? Can't buy that. One sin makes me a sinner, unable to measure up to God's standard of perfection. Remember Adam & Eve? One sin & they were tossed out of the Garden of Eden. Hence, Jesus.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I am just wondering... when the Jews were slaves in Egypt, God sent the angel of death (or something like that, I think), as one of the plagues to set them free, to kill the first born son of the Egyptians (if I am remembering that correctly). This was a command given to angel by God, right?
I am just trying to think of times when children were killed and this pops in my mind.

Yes,But I again ,I don't view the Tanakh as literal..

 

[jimmiej]

Imagine meeting all you here this evening! What are we all doing up this late? I just got off work (one of those 12 hour marathon days). Thought I'd DIS for a while. Gotta get up early, so I bid you all a good night!

 

[Buckalew11]

Yes,But I again ,I don't view the Tanakh as literal..

So, does that mean you don't think that is a true account of what happened? Do you believe the Jews were held as slaves? Isn't that what Passover is all about? I guess I didn't know that Jews didn't believe this was part of their history. Maybe because Passover is celebrated each year. Sorry for that assumption, I had no idea!!

 

[Buckalew11]

Imagine meeting all you here this evening! What are we all doing up this late? I just got off work (one of those 12 hour marathon days). Thought I'd DIS for a while. Gotta get up early, so I bid you all a good night!

me too. I hope I don't fall asleep at church tomorrow!!

 

[JoyG]

Imagine meeting all you here this evening! What are we all doing up this late? I just got off work (one of those 12 hour marathon days). Thought I'd DIS for a while. Gotta get up early, so I bid you all a good night!

I've got to get up for church tomorrow, I'm here way to late!

 

[JennyMominRI]

A little is as good as a lot, as long as we mean well? Can't buy that. One sin makes me a sinner, unable to measure up to God's standard of perfection. Remember Adam & Eve? One sin & they were tossed out of the Garden of Eden. Hence, Jesus.

But that's according to your rule book.. The idea that one must be *perfect* to be worthy of G-d is not a Jewish concept...Many are considered righteous people(tzadics) and they come from all races and religions. G-d created us to be imperfect.
He doesn't then punish us for being what he created to be. You won't find many Jews around who take the story of Adam and Eve as being literal...The concept of original sin does not exist within Judaism.. The talmud states that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come...
Now realize Judaism does not have a set view of the afterlife, called Olam ha-ba. Some beleive in a heaven like place,some in a ressurection,some in reincanation... It is beleved that some may go to a place of ritual purification for a time, but there is no such thing as eternal damnation to a Jew.
There is also a belief that all of the Jews who were ever to exist were present at Mt Sinai for the giving of Torah..This is where the reincanation belief often comes in. A Jewsh soul is a Jewish soul,and may comeback
The realty is Judaism just does not focus on the afterlife..We are to focus on here and now and make our mark in this world..Change it, repair it, try to make it better..SO that is what I try to do. I hope to leave this world a little bit better of a place for having been here..G-d can sort the rest out when I die..I'm not afraid. G-d is Just

 

[Aidensmom]

I've got to get up for church tomorrow, I'm here way to late!

I have actually had my pastor ask me if I was up late DISing, during service! It doesn't help that his wife is one of my good friends.

 

[paigevz]

But that's according to your rule book.. The idea that one must be *perfect* to be worthy of G-d is not a Jewish concept...Many are considered righteous people(tzadics) and they come from all races and religions. G-d created us to be imperfect.
He doesn't then punish us for being what he created to be. You won't find many Jews around who take the story of Adam and Eve as being literal...The concept of original sin does not exist within Judaism.. The talmud states that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come...
Now realize Judaism does not have a set view of the afterlife, called Olam ha-ba. Some beleive in a heaven like place,some in a ressurection,some in reincanation... It is beleved that some may go to a place of ritual purification for a time, but there is no such thing as eternal damnation to a Jew.
There is also a belief that all of the Jews who were ever to exist were present at Mt Sinai for the giving of Torah..This is where the reincanation belief often comes in. A Jewsh soul is a Jewish soul,and may comeback
The realty is Judaism just does not focus on the afterlife..We are to focus on here and now and make our mark in this world..Change it, repair it, try to make it better..SO that is what I try to do. I hope to leave this world a little bit better of a place for having been here..G-d can sort the rest out when I die..I'm not afraid. G-d is Just

I really like this belief system, it seems so right. Not the way I was taught, but it does seem very right and good. Just saying..............

 

[JennyMominRI]

So, does that mean you don't think that is a true account of what happened? Do you believe the Jews were held as slaves? Isn't that what Passover is all about? I guess I didn't know that Jews didn't believe this was part of their history. Maybe because Passover is celebrated each year. Sorry for that assumption, I had no idea!!

Yes and No...There are truths to be learned from the Exodus, but that does not mean that the entire story is literal?. Jews y were slaves in Egypt and left at some point. Jews were persecuted in Egypt and left.The rest is open to debate..The most importants thing we take from the Exodus is that it is very difficult to be a stranger in a strange land and that as we were strangers in Egypt,we must be kind to the strangers in our midst. This is why hospitality is such a big deal to Jews. It is absolutely imperitive that we are kind to strangers in or midst. Honestly what is important is the lesson we learned from the Exodus.

 

[Buckalew11]

Hmm...I don't think Christianity focuses on the afterlife either. I guess because we do believe that there is a need for salvation ( Heaven vs. eternal separation from God) and Jesus is that way of salvation, there is more talk of it. But, I still think Christianity focuses of personal growth in the Lord and loving your neighbor. Hardly, an all about going to Heaven belief, IMHO.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Hmm...I don't think Christianity focuses on the afterlife either. I guess because we do believe that there is a need for salvation ( Heaven vs. eternal separation from God) and Jesus is that way of salvation, there is more talk of it. But, I still think Christianity focuses of personal growth in the Lord and loving your neighbor. Hardly, an all about going to Heaven belief, IMHO.

Hmmm,Ok..Maybe that did not come out right? By not focusing,I mean there are no set beliefs like, after you die you go to heaven..What happens after death is open to interpretation and there is really no set doctrine..Ask 5 Jews what happens after we die and you get 6 answers.And IME most Christians believe that when you die you go to heaven or hell..I didn't mean that Non -Jews are focused on how to get to heaven.

 

[Buckalew11]

Jenny, I wasn't really referring to your post (that was why I didn't quote it). Your post did make me stop and think about it though (hence the "hmm.." ). So often, people around here say Christianity is like "fire insurance" and we are literally scared into our beliefs etc. I just think that is so untrue (not always, as I am sure there are people who looked for God because they heard the concept of Hell or separation from God and found God while looking for a way out of that) for most people who choose Christianity.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Jenny, I wasn't really referring to your post (that was why I didn't quote it). Your post did make me stop and think about it though (hence the "hmm.." ). So often, people around here say Christianity is like "fire insurance" and we are literally scared into our beliefs etc. I just think that is so untrue (not always, as I am sure there are people who looked for God because they heard the concept of Hell or separation from God and found God while looking for a way out of that) for most people who choose Christianity.

Ok,whew...I said something in my last post about the lack of Jewish focus on the afterlife,and thought maybe it came out the wrong way.

 

[Buckalew11]

Ok,whew...I said something in my last post about the lack of Jewish focus on the afterlife,and thought maybe it came out the wrong way.

No, I saw that and read it! And it made me think about Christianity's focus. I believe it is in the here and now and on becoming Christlike and loving others while having assurance of Heaven when we die.

 

[Aidensmom]

No, I saw that and read it! And it made me think about Christianity's focus. I believe it is in the here and now and on becoming Christlike and loving others while having assurance of Heaven when we die.

I agree.

I admit to being selfish and living in the day...I am a Christian because I have had a very hard life and I needed help getting through it, and God was always there for me. I really don't think much about the afterlife, except when my child asks me about it (after we have had some relatives die), and I will admit I don't have all the answers for him.